MAGA figureheads and pro-Trump activists are vowing to excommunicate Republicans who vigorously oppose the doomed effort to keep President Donald Trump in power.

The threats have played out in recent days with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, who was once seen as a possible ally in Trump’s efforts to overturn President-elect Joe Biden’s win in the swing state. But Raffensperger has consistently refused to validate Trump’s baseless voter fraud claims, and on Saturday, he bluntly told the president the rigged-election theories were simply wrong. After a recording of the Saturday call leaked to the press, the MAGA world erupted with incandescent range.

“A national security threat,” proclaimed Charlie Kirk, MAGA youth leader and Turning Point USA co-founder. “Brad Raffensperger should immediately be investigated.”

In the coming days, that MAGA revenge complex could target everyone from low-level members of Congress to Vice President Mike Pence, as Congress meets on Jan. 6 to formally certify Biden’s victory. “Republicans,” Trump warned on Twitter, “NEVER FORGET!” speaking to lawmakers who have said they will not oppose Biden’s certification. And Trump allies are plotting to fund potential pro-MAGA primary challengers to oust those disloyal Republicans.

“We’ll put some money behind” trying to oust these Republicans, said Alex Bruesewitz, one of the organizers of Stop the Steal, an organization linked to high-profile MAGA personalities that is helping organize a major Jan. 6 pro-Trump rally in Washington.

The swift move to vengeance offers a preview of how Trump and his MAGA community plan to reshape the GOP in the coming months — creating Trump loyalty tests for Republicans, then working to evict anyone who doesn’t fall in line. The goal is to identify those who are most worthy of inheriting the MAGA base with Trump out of office. But the result may be that no one except Trump can rally the MAGA coalition.

“I think that Trump and his supporters in the base, or his supporters in the Republican Party, are going to continue to be a big part of the party for the foreseeable future, including in 2022,” said Alex Conant, a GOP political consultant and the former communications director for Sen. Marco Rubio’s 2016 presidential campaign. “Most congressmen don't wake up in the morning worried about their general election. They worry about their primary.”

At the moment, Trump is focused on eviscerating Raffensperger, who has rebuffed Trump’s attempts to subvert the Georgia election results — and so, too, is his base.

While Trump’s allies launched a normal fusillade of personal attacks against Raffensperger — former House Speaker and Trump ally Newt Gingrich called him “anti-Republican” — they also called for criminal charges. Some suggested it had been illegal for the call to be recorded, even though Georgia law only requires one party in a conversation to consent to an audio recording. Others went further.

“Traitors in our midst,” tweeted Chanel Rion, White House correspondent at the pro-Trump outlet OAN, along with the hashtag “#InvestigateRaffensperger.”

Next, MAGA attention will focus on Capitol Hill, where Congress will meet on Jan. 6 in a joint session to formally certify November’s presidential election. Pence will oversee the proceedings as vice president. Historically, the gathering is an afterthought, a noncontroversial rubber stamp on an already settled outcome.

But in the Trump era, the president, scores of Republicans and throngs of his supporters are insisting that lawmakers should refuse to sign off on the results, incorrectly arguing that the election was rigged.

Trump-supporting entities are trying to concoct novel constitutional powers that Pence could wield at the last minute from his largely ministerial perch, which mostly involves opening the envelopes with each state’s Electoral College votes, and then handing them to a secretary for recording. Alexander Macris, a video game writer who became known for his role in Gamergate, the online harassment campaign targeting women, suggested in a viral essay that Pence could re-interpret the 1877 Electoral Count Act in a way that would allow him to simply not count the votes.

Edward Foley, the director of the Election Law Project at Ohio State University, flatly rejected the interpretation.

“I mean, it was raised in the 19th century, but it’s never been accepted in the sense that the Supreme Court's never adopted it. It's never even prevailed at Congress,” he said.

That hasn’t stopped pro-Trump outlets like The Gateway Pundit from making tantalizing offers directed at Pence.“Pence can place himself in the history books alongside Thomas Jefferson or he can sign off on the destruction of the United States as we know it,” read an op-ed on the site.

Others have traded carrots for sticks: Prominent conspiratorial-minded figures, such as pro-Trump Georgia lawyer Lin Wood, claimed that Pence could be arrested, tried for treason and executed by firing squad if he did not act on Trump’s behalf. And out in the wilds of the QAnon conspiracy community, the process might not even matter: Pence, some argued, might be a body double, put in place by a Satanic cabal to further its plots.

Lawmakers in Congress, meanwhile, have different concerns on their hands: Many will soon seek reelection. And for a certain brand of politician, going MAGA is the safest bet.

“Most of these people that won during the [2020] primaries, they said, ‘I'm the most like Trump.’ And that's why most of them won their primaries,” said Breusewitz, the Stop the Steal organizer. “And so if they go back, the voters will hold them accountable.”

Perhaps conscious of this, several newly-minted representatives have vowed to keep resisting even after Biden is sworn in. Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) pledged to push for a commission to investigate the election. Others are planning to be among those protesting in Washington, D.C. on Jan. 6. Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert, who both gained notoriety for promoting QAnon conspiracies earlier in their political careers, are scheduled to speak at the rally.

As for those who don’t sufficiently fight against Biden’s inauguration, Bruesewitz has promised they will be punished.

“When we say every Republican that does not stand strong with the president will get a primary challenger, that does not mean we believe that we can beat every single one of them,” he said. “But what it means is we will make them spend their money. And we will urge their donors to not support them.”

Even with at least 140 House Republicans and 12 Senate Republicans vowing to oppose certification on Wednesday, Congress will still sign off on Biden’s win. Only a simple congressional majority is needed to formalize the results, which is all but guaranteed given the current makeup of Congress. And Pence himself has remained chilly on the topic, with a spokesperson saying that while the vice president backed the lawmaker’s right to object, it was up to them to actually prove fraud.

For the majority of Republicans, Conant argued, “This effort to undermine the integrity of the election will only help Joe Biden. And I say that because it'll leave Biden's opposition in Congress divided and many Republicans defending a very unpopular position.”

Still, for the right type of Republican, a vast MAGA empire is within reach: Trump’s fundraising numbers skyrocketed after the election, as his campaign solicited donations to fight nebulous voter-fraud allegations. Tapping into that energy could give the most fervent MAGA Republicans a boost in the coming years.

But, as Conant noted, that only works if Trump stays involved in Republican races around the country — far from a certainty once he leaves the White House.

“I suppose if Trump made his life mission to defeat everyone that wasn't loyal with him until the very end, maybe it could have an impact,” Conant said. “Just count me skeptical that he's going to spend the next two years playing in Republican primary politics, when he never showed that much of an interest in doing that when he was president.”

Still, Breusewitz, the Stop the Steal organizer, argued Republican voters are now solidly aligned with Trump.

“Republican voters want to see the party grow in a direction towards the president’s, and continue with the ‘America First’ and the MAGA movement,” he said.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/05/maga-trump-revenge-republican-traitors-454924

Cannibalism has become the latest strategy of the Republican party. Align with Demagogue Trump or be excommunicated.

Hope they keep eating their own until there are none of them left.

Vice President Mike Pence's four years of faithful service to his boss, President Donald Trump, will culminate this week in a ceremonial act he's under increasing pressure to thwart.

"The Vice President has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors," Trump declared falsely on Tuesday, lending credence to an erroneous theory that Pence can overturn the results of the election during Wednesday's tally of Electoral College votes and again pressuring his top lieutenant to act outside constitutional bounds.

His message came the morning after Trump riled up a crowd of supporters in Georgia using Pence's upcoming engagement on the Senate floor.

"I hope Mike Pence comes through for us, I have to tell you," Trump said Monday night during a political rally in Georgia, where his public arm-twisting was met with cheers. "Of course, if he doesn't come through, I won't like him as much."

It was a direct message to a vice president whose defining political characteristic remains his unyielding fealty to Trump. How Pence proceeds on Wednesday when he presides over the certification of the Electoral College tally could determine his future relationship with the man he has served loyally, even in moments of political peril.
The two men had lunch together on Tuesday, according to two sources. Their lunches are typically put on their public schedules, but was not listed Tuesday.

Over the past several weeks, Trump has become intensely interested in Pence's ceremonial role during the certification of the Electoral College. He has raised the matter repeatedly with his vice president and has been "confused" as to why Pence can't overturn the results of the election on January 6, sources told CNN.

As he was flying to Florida for his vacation last month, Trump retweeted a call from one of his supporters for Pence to refuse to ratify the Electoral College results on January 6 -- a prospect that has captured his imagination even if it remains completely impossible.

Pence and White House aides have tried to explain to him that Pence's role is more of a formality and he cannot unilaterally reject the Electoral College votes. Pence has walked Trump through his largely procedural role in hopes of downplaying the pressure on him, a strategy that doesn't appear to have worked given the President explicitly urged him to take action Monday night without saying exactly what he wanted Pence to do.
There is little expectation among Trump or Pence's aides that he will divert from his constitutionally-prescribed role.

"He will follow the law and Constitution," one person familiar with the matter said.

Undeterred, Trump still seems taken with the idea and has not let up on asking Pence how he could somehow reverse or prevent Biden from being certified the winner, according to people familiar with the conversations.
"He's a wonderful man and a smart man and a man that I like a lot but he's going to have a lot to say about it," Trump said on Monday. "You know one thing with him. You're going to get straight shots. He's going to call it straight."

Traditionally, the vice president presides over the electoral vote certification, though it's not a requirement. In 1969, then-Vice President Hubert Humphrey didn't preside over the process since he had just lost the presidential election to Richard Nixon. The president pro tempore of the Senate presided instead.

One source close to Pence said it is not seen as a good option for Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley -- the current president pro tempore -- to be there instead of Pence on January 6.

Pence and Trump were seen meeting in the Oval Office on Monday, along with White House chief of staff Mark Meadows and Trump's daughter Ivanka Trump, before Trump departed for Georgia. According to Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, the pair were set to discuss how they would proceed on January 6.

"That decision has to get made by the President and vice president, and they are actually meeting today and going through all the research -- they probably aren't going to make that decision by sometime tomorrow," Giuliani said on a podcast hosted by Charlie Kirk, a conservative activist.
Giuliani ticked though several issues he characterized as constitutional matters that he said Pence and Trump would discuss. He framed the decision as one for both Trump and Pence -- even though the President has made clear he believes Pence should somehow act to prevent the certification, and Pence, in private, has explained his role is merely ceremonial.

On Sunday, Pence met for a lengthy session with the Senate Parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough in his office just off the Senate floor. Pence chief of staff Marc Short, who was also in the Capitol and seen at one point going into the office of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, denied the purpose of the meeting was to find a way to overturn the Electoral College results.

"No," Short said. "We're just meeting."

Asked why he was meeting with the parliamentarian, Short said they are "trying to figure out the exact process."

Still, procedure and process can hardly inure Pence from the outrage of a President who still believes the election was stolen from him and has been fed conspiracies about the results from a band of fringe advisers.
Even as recently as this weekend, Trump's trade adviser Peter Navarro claimed on Fox News that Pence had the power to move back Inauguration Day, contradicting the Constitution.

Last month, Trump offered tacit approval for the lawsuit filed by his Republican ally Rep. Louie Gohmert pressuring Pence into overturning the election results and was later disappointed to learn his own Justice Department was asking a judge to reject the suit, according to a person familiar with the matter. Trump and Pence discussed the matter at the end of last week.

Trump for weeks has told associates that he does not believe Pence is fighting hard enough for him. That frustration is partly what led Pence's chief of staff to issue a statement Saturday night saying he welcomed efforts in Congress to raise objections to the Electoral College, though several noted it seemed carefully worded and did not say he supported the objections outright.

"Vice President Pence shares the concerns of millions of Americans about voter fraud and irregularities in the last election," Short wrote. "The Vice President welcomes the efforts of members of the House and Senate to use the authority they have under the law to raise objections and bring forward evidence before the Congress and the American people on January 6th."

Speaking at his own rally in Georgia on Monday, Pence offered little insight into his thinking about January 6, even as he bolstered Trump's false claims of voter fraud.
Instead, he kept his remarks vague.

"I know we've all got our doubts about the last election," he said. "I want to assure you, I share the concerns of the millions of Americans about voting irregularity. I promise you, come this Wednesday, we'll have our day in Congress, we'll hear the objections, we'll hear the evidence."
Pence did not say what happens after.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/05/politics/mike-pence-donald-trump-electoral-college/index.html

And here we have Trump and some in his closest of circle try and force Pence to not only break the law, but stomp on our Constitution to stay in power while millions still support his criminal activity.

There is no low they won't stoop to to undermine democracy.

#traitors

Yeah, then we'll be left to fight among ourselves.

This probably deserves its own thread but there's just far too much craziness going on to start a new thread for each idiotic thing right now.

Proud Boys leader arrested in Washington, D.C.

Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys, was arrested in Washington, D.C., on Monday, a source familiar with the case told CBS News. Tarrio's arrest was later confirmed by D.C. Metropolitan Police.

He was arrested in response to an outstanding warrant on a misdemeanor charge of destruction of property connected to the burning of a Black Lives Matter banner at a historic Washington, D.C., church last month; but when he was detained, Tarrio also had in his possession two high-capacity magazines, according to a source familiar with the case.

Tarrio's arrest comes just 48 hours before his pro-Trump group is planning to rally Wednesday in Washington, D.C., in support of the president's last-ditch efforts to overturn the results of the presidential election. The D.C. National Guard plans to activate hundreds of troops to support D.C. Metropolitan Police if the rallies proceed as planned. The possession of the magazines is a felony in the District, and if Tarrio is charged with a felony, that could result in a "stay away" order from D.C.

A source familiar with the case told CBS News his arrest was not related to the upcoming demonstrations, but rather to Tarrio's return to D.C. and his alleged past conduct.

A source familiar with the case told CBS News that Tarrio is being held overnight in Washington, D.C. A charging decision in relation to the possession of the two high-capacity firearm magazines — a felony in the nation's capital — is pending. The charging decision is expected before Tuesday's hearing.

Tarrio is currently being held on a misdemeanor charge. The source said hate crimes charges were considered, but the source also said there was a lack evidence to support those charges. Tarrio was arrested by D.C. Metropolitan Police while leaving a D.C. airport in a vehicle, and he was also charged with being in possession of a high-capacity firearm magazine, which is a felony in D.C. A charging decision was pending.

Asbury United Methodist Church, which is on the District of Columbia Register of Historic Places and is the oldest Black church to remain on its original site, said its Black Lives Matter sign was burned in the street during pro-Trump rallies on December 12.

Tarrio told The Washington Post days after the incident that he had participated in the burning of the flag, but he insisted he hadn't participated in a hate crime. He said he would surrender to authorities, plead guilty to destruction of property and pay the church the cost of the banner.

"So, let me make this simple. I did it," he said on December 18.

Asbury United Methodist Church replaced the stolen banner on December 18 and then held a prayer service outside the church, according to The Washington Post.

Tarrio said the Proud Boys were reacting to the stabbing of four members of its group outside a nearby bar. Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church, another historically Black house of worship, also said a Black Lives Matter sign was taken as well. That church filed a lawsuit on Monday against Tarrio for the destruction of the banner.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/proud-boys-leader-enrique-tarrio-arrested-washington-dc/

“We’ll put some money behind” trying to oust these Republicans, said Alex Bruesewitz, one of the organizers of Stop the Steal,"

When Biden gets sworn in they cant go after the election anymore to raise money. So now give them your money to fight bad republican's. Just be a good sheep and keep giving your money.

At a time when body bags are in short supply.

A pandemic killing people at a insane rate.

Now we have wackos running around. Trying to tear apart the fabric this country was founded upon.

Sickening really.

And the attempted coup continues in Pennsylvania. This time in a very real way.

Pa. Senate Republicans refuse to seat Democrat Brewster in contentious swearing-in ceremony

A Western Pennsylvania lawmaker who won re-election in November was not sworn-in to the state Senate on Tuesday with the rest of the victors, as Republicans voted to deny his seating and ponder a challenge by his electoral opponent.

Sen. Jim Brewster, a McKeesport Democrat who has represented the 45th District for the last decade, defeated Republican Nicole Ziccarelli by 69 votes in the Nov. 3 contest, but didn't get to take the oath of office on the Senate floor with the 24 others who won their races in this cycle.

The GOP majority tabled the seating so members of the Senate could digest both sides of an official challenge by Ms. Ziccarelli, interim Senate President Pro Tempore Jake Corman said on Monday. Ms. Ziccarelli is asking a federal court to toss out votes in the race that would swing the district to her, and urged the Senate, in the meantime, to refuse the official vote certification on the chamber floor.

They did so on Tuesday in what was a messy, contentious session, in which Republicans voted to remove Lt. Gov. John Fetterman, a Democrat, as presiding officer and replace him with Mr. Corman.

Democrats allege that the GOP is trying to steal an election in the 45th District, and senators took issue with Republicans replacing Mr. Fetterman. Senate Minority Leader Jay Costa called it a “hostile takeover” of the Senate.

The day’s session started with a roll call vote on whether senators should be mandated to wear masks that day — and it passed unanimously.

That was the first and last showing of unity.

Sen. Steven Santarsiero, D-Bucks, started with a motion asking that the swearing-in of all senators be postponed until the federal court resolves Ms. Ziccarelli’s case. He alleged that the losing candidate filed a “specious petition” with the body asking it to invalidate the will of the people — a challenge not in compliance with law, and done after the state Supreme Court found the counting of the ballots at issue to be legal.

“I understand that candidates who lose are disappointed,” Mr. Santarsiero said, “but a candidate’s disappointment should not ever result in overturning our democratic process. A candidate’s disappointment should not render a nullity [to] a free and fair election through which Senator-elect Brewster was duly elected to serve the people of the 45th district.”

The effort was shot down by Republicans in a party-line vote.

When the GOP eventually motioned to table the results of the 45th district indefinitely, Mr. Fetterman, the presiding officer, said he wouldn’t recognize the motion, and requested that all certified senators be seated.

As Democrats yelled in opposition and Sen. Anthony Williams shouted that the GOP was violating the state constitution, the Republicans proceeded with a vote to replace Mr. Fetterman with Mr. Corman for the day. It passed on a party-line vote.

Mr. Corman started to run the session, but it didn’t stop Mr. Fetterman and his fellow Democrats from vocally objecting — and at times, seeming to run their own proceedings to counter the Republicans.

“The gentleman who sits in podium is presiding officer of the Senate,” Mr. Williams shouted. “Any such indication otherwise is obviously a takeover of the government.”

When the oaths of office were administered, Mr. Brewster was at the rostrum with his fellow Democratic winners. Mr. Corman objected, and said he wouldn’t authorize the swearing-in unless Mr. Brewster stepped aside. Mr. Brewster did so voluntarily.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politi...es/202101050125

Stupid. If he was going to burn one, he should have brought it himself. Can't burn somebody else's property.

What seemed so bizarre is not only didn't he cover his face, he also talked to the press about it. And on top of that, even after he pretty much outed himself, he broke Washington D.C.'s strict gun control laws which is a felony.

Well I didn't go into this expecting him to be a particularly bright fella.

Trump reportedly told Kelly Loeffler he'd 'do a number on her' if she didn't back Electoral College challenge
Tim O'Donnell
Sun, January 10, 2021, 12:38 PM EST

President Trump was prepared to "do a number" on outgoing Sen. Kelly Loeffler (R-Ga.) last week on stage during the president's final pre-runoff rally in Georgia, a source familiar with the events told The Washington Free Beacon's Eliana Johnson, per Politico.

The implication is that Trump told Loeffler what he said about her on stage was contingent upon whether she backed the Electoral College challenge championed by Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), among others.

Loeffler did plan to object, though it's unclear if the decision was directly related to Trump's alleged threat. Ultimately, the point was moot, since Loeffler lost to her Democratic challenger Raphael Warnock, and wound up voting to certify President-elect Joe Biden's victory afterwards. But the report still carries some significance for analysts, who think it's a microcosm of the larger issues that led to Loeffler's defeat.

Johnson's scoop also further suggests that Trump was willing to let the Republican Party lose control of the Senate for personal gain.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-reportedly-told-kelly-loeffler-173800709.html

Sounds messed up to me. Loefller doesn't have any control over something like that. However, the following of:

"a source familiar with the events told The Washington Free Beacon's Eliana Johnson, per Politico"

is very weak journalism. Who is the source? What's their name, how do I know they're real? Just saying.

Why would you be concerned with what's real?

It's obvious you subscribe to qultist talking points.

It's what passes for journalism these days. You need cite no person. You need cite no proof. All you need today is "someone told me something, and I will put it out there for consumption."

Generally speaking, I'm always concerned with what is real. You aren't?

But, when we get 'news', second or third hand, from un named sources that "this might have happened", I tend wait until proof is put out. Until then?

What kind of response is this? What are you? 5 years old?

The most responsible course of action for a journalist to take is verify the source to be real, credible, name them would be the best. Wait until you know the story is a fact before you publish it. That's what you're supposed to do. You know why you wait? So you don't look like a fool and liar.

Anonymous sources have been a gold-standard of journalism for hundreds of years.

Trump-world also uses anonymous sources constantly (in fact, Donald Trump himself is known to constantly ask that he be referred to as "a person with knowledge of Trump's opinions")

Also, there is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonyms_of_Donald_Trump

Five year old responses? I guess you forgot the time you typed out the Hitler salute on here.

You also follow a dude who is Qultist adjacent and shows antivax leanings.

Guessing Parler shutdown has you feeling salty and posting here, eh?

That can't be true ?

Don't drink grape soda.

I also have an anonymous source that I've known since high school and we grew up together but had a falling our shortly around the beginning of college. He moved to Virgnia and got a highly classified job with the CIA. I haven't heard from him in a number of years but just the other day he texted me about advanced information he was given ahead of the capitol incident and that it was really a false flag operation. Because of potential personal and professional risk to his reputation he asked me not to name him.

Totally true. Refs deleted it.

It's understandable that you be skeptical of people who do not reveal their sources. But to claim that is weak journalism is false. Without the source known as Deep Throat, the crimes of Nixon would never have been uncovered.

It's up to a journalist to make sure their source is credible, not their responsibility to name that source.

So yeah arch, it's something that has been used for decades and even longer. It's not "what passes for journalism these days".

I got you all wound up, I love it.

Keep on deflecting, Qultist.

Your friend must not know what the hell is going on our he lied to you.

When people try to overthrow our elections, that's not a false flag.

Unless you're just being facetious in your denial that some of the biggest stories of our lifetime weren't broken wide open based on confidential informants.

What does that word mean?

Tasty shows sympathies towards those who are convinced a global satanic cannibal pedophile cabals are drinking the blood of child. These people follow a man named Q and call themselves QAnons which is essentially a cult at this point. These Qultists drove the insurrection this past week.

The Qultists are the source of every rigged election theory, main drivers of antimask/antivax/covid denial nonsense, and all that other tomfoolery.

Wow. I'm glad I don't over educate myself.......and I quit drinking grape soda.

Seriously, do people waste time on 'sympathies towards those who are convinced of a global satanic cannibal pesophile (another word I don't know).....wait, you meant pedophile....got it know - cabals drinking the blood of children?

There are people like that?

There are people who push such conspiracy theories.

I don't doubt that.

Yep.

Let me know if you want a few investigative reports into the nonsense.

These people are the ones who have generated every single election fraud theory that reached mainstream coverage. This is the stuff that was objected over on Wednesday.

How many times are you going to use that line this week? You've already accused me.., changing "sympathies" for "theories". I think you naborate to sound important!

I use it because people need to understand you and others are peddling dangerous conspiratorial lunacy that has less value than a turd that falls out of a horse’s anus.

Oh. just over 4 years ago it was the russians.

Sorry Rocket, that's the socialist platform... I told you I know nothing about QAnon, nothing!

That's the scary thing, fish. Every single article you post about election fraud involves theories straight from QAnon.

Every. Single. Mainstream. Election. Fraud. Theory.

They all come from QAnon.

As I told you yesterday, please research where the ideas come from.

Seems Qanon lives rent free in your head. Quick get the tinfoil!

Deflect! Deflect!

I don't even know half the words you're saying to me. I'm just going to sit back here and continue to laugh at you.

You're just a silly goose. I'd love to meet you in person some time to see if your online persona contrasts from in real life. Has anyone met RocketOptimist? What is he like?

Great to see trolling is alive and well. Congrats, glad you have something in your life.

You're in the same group with Rocket. Where are you located mgh888? Are you in Ohio? I want a meet and greet. I have some time free in the middle of the week if you'd like to do policy debate in person. I'm curious to see who you all are, I want to know!

Judging by your post numbers that far outweigh mine I've got plenty to do in my life. Maybe you should be asking yourself about that.

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 7869

Let's do that. PM me.

Now you are just being creepy.

There's several posters I'd like to meet in person and tip a beer with. Many that don't hold the same politics as me. Posters that do nothing but troll and laugh when they -mistakenly - think they got under someone's skin don't make that list.

Mmmm, hmmmm.



Homeland Security Digital Library

This is something the uninformed continue to parrot. It's because they simply want to believe what they want to believe and have no interest in actually looking into anything or learning anything.

They are the type of people who would rather act like a chimpanzee at the zoo and fling feces than actually know what the hell is going on in our country.

For you see, QAnon is not something the liberals made up in their minds. It's not something that liberals actually have anything to do with.

Conspiracy Theory Trends: QAnon

The Institute for Strategic Dialogue has released Genesis of a Conspiracy Theory: Key Trends in QAnon Activity Since 2017, a report analyzing the QAnon conspiracy, including a rise in activity amid the coronavirus pandemic. According to the report, this conspiracy theory “claims that an elite group of child-trafficking paedophiles have been ruling the world for a number of decades and that President Trump has a secret plan in place to bring this group to justice.” As believers in this conspiracy have grown, so has the breadth of its content. Currently, the QAnon conspiracy is being tethered to other ideologies such as “anti-vaccine, anti-5G […], antisemitic and anti-migrant

As of 2019, the FBI has designated QAnon as a “domestic terror threat” because of its potential to incite extremist violence. In spite of this, several U.S. congressional candidates for the 2020 November election proclaim support for the QAnon conspiracy. Several key events from 2017 to 2020 have contributed to its spread, including Jeffrey Epstein’s arrest and death, and the coronavirus pandemic lockdowns. What started out as a primarily U.S. based conspiracy theory, has expanded to gain international recognition. Currently, QAnon followers seem to be propagating misinformation pertaining to both COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) and the George Floyd protests, all while membership across various digital platforms, such as Facebook, seem to be on the rise.

For more information, visit the HSDL Featured Topics on Domestic (U.S.) Terrorism and Social Media Use in Emergencies, or view other resources related to Conspiracy Theories and Disinformation and Propaganda. Coronavirus related resources may also be found in the COVID-19 Special Collection. Please note that an HSDL login is required to view some of these resources.

https://www.hsdl.org/c/conspiracy-theory-trends-qanon/

Exclusive: FBI document warns conspiracy theories are a new domestic terrorism threat

The FBI for the first time has identified fringe conspiracy theories as a domestic terrorist threat, according to a previously unpublicized document obtained by Yahoo News. (Read the document below.)

The FBI intelligence bulletin from the bureau’s Phoenix field office, dated May 30, 2019, describes “conspiracy theory-driven domestic extremists,” as a growing threat, and notes that it is the first such report to do so. It lists a number of arrests, including some that haven’t been publicized, related to violent incidents motivated by fringe beliefs.

The document specifically mentions QAnon, a shadowy network that believes in a deep state conspiracy against President Trump, and Pizzagate, the theory that a pedophile ring including Clinton associates was being run out of the basement of a Washington, D.C., pizza restaurant (which didn’t actually have a basement).

“The FBI assesses these conspiracy theories very likely will emerge, spread, and evolve in the modern information marketplace, occasionally driving both groups and individual extremists to carry out criminal or violent acts,” the document states. It also goes on to say the FBI believes conspiracy theory-driven extremists are likely to increase during the 2020 presidential election cycle.

The FBI said another factor driving the intensity of this threat is “the uncovering of real conspiracies or cover-ups involving illegal, harmful, or unconstitutional activities by government officials or leading political figures.” The FBI does not specify which political leaders or which cover-ups it was referring to.

President Trump is mentioned by name briefly in the latest FBI document, which notes that the origins of QAnon is the conspiratorial belief that “Q,” allegedly a government official, “posts classified information online to reveal a covert effort, led by President Trump, to dismantle a conspiracy involving ‘deep state’ actors and global elites allegedly engaged in an international child sex trafficking ring.”

This recent intelligence bulletin comes as the FBI is facing pressure to explain who it considers an extremist, and how the government prosecutes domestic terrorists. In recent weeks the FBI director has addressed domestic terrorism multiple times but did not publicly mention this new conspiracy theorist threat.

The FBI is already under fire for its approach to domestic extremism. In a contentious hearing last week before the Senate Judiciary Committee, FBI Director Christopher Wray faced criticism from Democrats who said the bureau was not focusing enough on white supremacist violence. “The term ‘white supremacist,’ ‘white nationalist’ is not included in your statement to the committee when you talk about threats to America,” Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., said. “There is a reference to racism, which I think probably was meant to include that, but nothing more specific.”

Wray told lawmakers the FBI had done away with separate categories for black identity extremists and white supremacists, and said the bureau was instead now focusing on “racially motivated” violence. But he added, “I will say that a majority of the domestic terrorism cases that we've investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence.”

The FBI had faced mounting criticism for the term “black identity extremists,” after its use was revealed by Foreign Policy magazine in 2017. Critics pointed out that the term was an FBI invention based solely on race, since no group or even any specific individuals actually identify as black identity extremists.

In May, Michael C. McGarrity, the FBI’s assistant director of the counterterrorism division, told Congress the bureau now “classifies domestic terrorism threats into four main categories: racially motivated violent extremism, anti-government/anti-authority extremism, animal rights/environmental extremism, and abortion extremism,” a term the bureau uses to classify both pro-choice and anti-abortion extremists.

The new focus on conspiracy theorists appears to fall under the broader category of anti-government extremism. “This is the first FBI product examining the threat from conspiracy theory-driven domestic extremists and provides a baseline for future intelligence products,” the document states.

The new category is different in that it focuses not on racial motivations, but on violence based specifically on beliefs that, in the words of the FBI document, “attempt to explain events or circumstances as the result of a group of actors working in secret to benefit themselves at the expense of others” and are “usually at odds with official or prevailing explanations of events.”

The FBI acknowledges conspiracy theory-driven violence is not new, but says it’s gotten worse with advances in technology combined with an increasingly partisan political landscape in the lead-up to the 2020 presidential election. “The advent of the Internet and social media has enabled promoters of conspiracy theories to produce and share greater volumes of material via online platforms that larger audiences of consumers can quickly and easily access,” the document says.

The bulletin says it is intended to provide guidance and “inform discussions within law enforcement as they relate to potentially harmful conspiracy theories and domestic extremism.”

The FBI Phoenix field office referred Yahoo News to the bureau’s national press office, which provided a written statement.

“While our standard practice is to not comment on specific intelligence products, the FBI routinely shares information with our law enforcement partners in order to assist in protecting the communities they serve,” the FBI said.

In its statement, the FBI also said it can “never initiate an investigation based solely on First Amendment protected activity. As with all of our investigations, the FBI can never monitor a website or a social media platform without probable cause.”

The Department of Homeland Security, which has also been involved in monitoring domestic extremism, did not return or acknowledge emails and phone requests for comment.

While not all conspiracy theories are deadly, those identified in the FBI’s 15-page report led to either attempted or successfully carried-out violent attacks. For example, the Pizzagate conspiracy led a 28-year-old man to invade a Washington, D.C., restaurant to rescue the children he believed were being kept there, and fire an assault-style weapon inside.

The FBI document also cites an unnamed California man who was arrested on Dec. 19, 2018, after being found with what appeared to be bomb-making materials in his car. The man allegedly was planning “blow up a satanic temple monument” in the Capitol rotunda in Springfield, Ill., to “make Americans aware of Pizzagate and the New World Order, who were dismantling society,” the document says.

Historian David Garrow, the author of a Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Martin Luther King Jr. who has worked extensively with FBI archives, raised doubts to Yahoo News about the memo. He says the FBI’s default assumption is that violence is motivated by ideological beliefs rather than mental illness. “The guy who shot up the pizza place in D.C.: Do we think of him as a right-wing activist, or insane?” Garrow asked.

Garrow was similarly critical of the FBI’s use of the term “black identity extremists” and related attempts to ascribe incidents like the 2016 shooting of six police officers in Baton Rouge, La., to black radicalism. He said the shooter, Gavin Long, had a history of mental health problems. “The bureau’s presumption — the mindset — is to see ideological motives where most of the rest of us see individual nuttiness,” he said.

Identifying conspiracy theories as a threat could be a political lightning rod, since President Trump has been accused of promulgating some of them, with his frequent references to a deep state and his praise in 2015 for Alex Jones, who runs the conspiracy site InfoWars. While the FBI intelligence bulletin does not mention Jones or InfoWars by name, it does mention some of the conspiracy theories frequently associated with the far-right radio host, in particular the concept of the New World Order.

Jones claimed the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, in which 26 children were killed, was a hoax, a false flag operation intended as a pretext for the government to seize or outlaw firearms. The families of a number of victims have sued Jones for defamation, saying his conspiracy-mongering contributed to death threats and online abuse they have received.

While Trump has never endorsed Sandy Hook denialism, he was almost up until the 2016 election the most high-profile promoter of the birther conspiracy that claimed former President Barack Obama was not born in the United States. He later dropped his claim, and deflected criticism by pointing the finger at Hillary Clinton. He said her campaign had given birth to the conspiracy, and Trump “finished it.”

There is no evidence that Clinton started the birther conspiracy.

Joe Uscinski, an associate professor of political science at the University of Miami, whose work on conspiracy theories is cited in the intelligence bulletin, said there’s no data suggesting conspiracy theories are any more widespread now than in the past. “There is absolutely no evidence that people are more conspiratorial now,” says Uscinski, after Yahoo News described the bulletin to him. “They may be, but there is not strong evidence showing this.”

It’s not that people are becoming more conspiratorial, says Uscinski, but conspiracies are simply getting more media attention.

“We are looking back at the past with very rosy hindsight to forget our beliefs, pre-internet, in JFK [assassination] conspiracy theories and Red scares. My gosh, we have conspiracy theories about the king [of England] written into the Declaration of Independence,” he said, referencing claims that the king was planning to establish tyranny over the American colonies.

It’s not that conspiracy theorists are growing in number, Uscinski argues, but that media coverage of those conspiracies has grown. “For most of the last 50 years, 60 to 80 percent of the country believe in some form of JFK conspiracy theory,” he said. “They’re obviously not all extremist.”

Conspiracy theories, including Russia’s role in creating and promoting them, attracted widespread attention during the 2016 presidential election when they crossed over from Internet chat groups to mainstream news coverage. Yahoo News’s "Conspiracyland" podcast recently revealed that Russia’s foreign intelligence service was the origin of a hoax report that tied the murder of Seth Rich, a Democratic National Committee staffer, to Hillary Clinton.

Washington police believe that Rich was killed in a botched robbery, and there is no proof that his murder had any political connections.

Among the violent conspiracy theories cited in the May FBI document is one involving a man who thought Transportation Security Administration agents were part of a New World Order. Another focused on the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP), a government-funded facility in Alaska that has been linked to everything from death beams to mind control. The two men arrested in connection with HAARP were “stockpiling weapons, ammunition and other tactical gear in preparation to attack” the facility, believing it was being used “to control the weather and prevent humans from talking to God.”

Nate Snyder, who served as a Department of Homeland Security counterterrorism official during the Obama administration, said that the FBI appears to be applying the same radicalization analysis it employs against foreign terrorism, like the Islamic State group, which has recruited followers in the United States.

“The domestic violent extremists cited in the bulletin are using the same playbook that groups like ISIS and al-Qaida have used to inspire, recruit and carry out attacks,” said Snyder, after reviewing a copy of the bulletin provided by Yahoo News. “You put out a bulletin and say this is the content they’re looking at — and it’s some guy saying he’s a religious cleric or philosopher — and then you look at the content, videos on YouTube, etc., that they are pushing and show how people in the U.S. might be radicalized by that content.”

Though the FBI document focuses on ideological motivations, FBI Director Wray, in his testimony last week, asserted that the FBI is concerned only with violence, not people’s beliefs. The FBI doesn’t “investigate ideology, no matter how repugnant,” he told lawmakers. “We investigate violence. And any extremist ideology, when it turns to violence, we are all over it. ... In the first three quarters of this year, we've had more domestic terrorism arrests than the prior year, and it's about the same number of arrests as we have on the international terrorism side.”

Yet the proliferation of the extremist categories concerns Michael German, a former FBI agent and now a fellow with the Brennan Center for Justice’s Liberty & National Security program. “It’s part of the radicalization theory the FBI has promoted despite empirical studies that show it’s bogus,” he said.

German says this new category is a continuing part of FBI overreach. “They like the radicalization theory because it justifies mass surveillance,” he said. “If we know everyone who will do harm is coming from this particular community, mass surveillance is important. We keep broadening the number of communities we include in extremist categories.”

For Garrow, the historian, the FBI’s expansive definition has its roots in bureau paranoia that dates back decades. “I think it’s their starting point,” he said. “This goes all the way back to the Hoover era without question. They see ideology as a central motivating factor in human life, and they don’t see mental health issues as a major factor.”

Yet trying to label a specific belief system as prone to violence is problematic, he said.

“I don’t think most of us would do a good job in predicting what sort of wacky information could lead someone to violence, or not lead anyone to violence,” Garrow said. “Pizzagate would be a great example of that.”

While Trump may not be supportive of labeling a group like QAnon, which sees him as a hero, as extremist, he’s in favor of broadening the number of organizations that are labeled as violent extremists, at least on the left. On Saturday, President Trump tweeted that Antifa, a far-left movement opposed to what it considers fascism, should be labeled a terrorist organization.

Snyder, the former Homeland Security official, agrees that conspiracy theories may in fact inspire violence and be a threat, but questions what the government is going to do about it.

He notes that at the Department of Homeland Security, “nearly all, if not all, the intelligence analysts focusing on domestic extremist groups” were eliminated under the Trump administration. “There is no one there doing this,” he said.

https://sports.yahoo.com/fbi-documents-conspiracy-theories-terrorism-160000507.html

What you and a few other uninformed people on this forum are doing, is not attacking the things liberals are saying on this board. What you are doing is denying the very security experts in this nation. We have simply been telling you what they have found.

Christopher Ray was nominated by Trump. He is a Trump selection. He is the head of the FBI.

Chad Wolf is also a Trump nomination who runs Homeland security.

These are the security experts who according to you, "QAnon lives rent free in their minds".

In case you just can't wrap your mind around this, let me help you out here. They are not liberals.

You have decided that in some willful display of ignoring the very security experts in our country, to blame their findings on those of us who report what they have found to you, makes you and a few more of the Trumpians on this board appear blissfully ignorant to the realities going on in our nation.

You do know that staying uninformed and ignoring the very evidence of the Republican security experts in our nation isn't some gotchya moment towards liberals, right? I guess not.

Keep slinging that feces.

Apparently Qanon is living rent free in the FBI's head.

Washington Monument closed due to threat

https://news.trust.org/item/20210111145056-13o5o


FBI warns of "huge uprising"

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2119913/trump-insurrection-25th-amendment-armed-protests/

Anyone who even gives a damn enough to follow what's going on is aware we will see more of this very soon. They're already trying to organize an uprising on Jan. 17th and anyone who believes we won't see something similar at the inauguration are being blissfully ignorant.

The question becomes will it purposefully be ignored like it was on the 6th in what could only be seen as enabling them to inflict as much chaos and division as possible, or will they be prepared to deal with it?

At least major social media sites have stopped in what many see as aiding and abetting them in making organizing such events easy and contributing to further insurrection.

The 6th was a dress rehearsal, but I don't think we will see a repeat. Those rounded up have cried the blues and sobbed in front of the cult enough to give them pause. If not, now the military and law enforcement have been put in place to quell the insurrection.

And the deplatforming is making very hard for them to communicate enmasse. Breaking their comms, hunting them down and arresting them, having the world rightfully label them terrorist, etc. has had to have taken some steam out of this.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

FBI memo warns law enforcement across U.S. of possible armed protests at 50 state Capitols

The FBI also says an armed group has threatened to travel to Washington and stage an uprising if Congress removes Trump from office.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-...sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

Information to Eve. The heads of these security agencies are not liberals. Just a heads up.

Unfortunately, there are. If memory serves me, I think it traces back to someone claiming they saw Hillary's hacked emails which had codes in it showing that all that kind of stuff is going on. It made more headlines when "Pizzagate" happened and some dude actually broke into a pizza shop's storage room with a gun, thinking that it was being used for child trafficking.

I might be off there.

I imagine that close to 100% of people who prescribe to QAnon are Trump supporters, but obviously a very small subset of that voting demographic, when you think of 74 million people.

The problem is that they are obviously very loud and obnoxious, like the shirtless dude that wore the animal fur. So they are going to capture headlines and associate the general Trump-voting populace with their extremism, which sucks, honestly, because it exaggerates the polarization.

The biggest issue from my end is that Trump had the opportunity to debunk and distance himself from this notion very early on, but refused to do so and sidestepped the issue when asked directly about it.

I contrast that with someone like McCain (who I liked) taking the microphone away from some lady who was pronouncing baseless claims about Obama being a Muslim socialist or something along that nature and immediately debunked it. In that role, I think it is imperative for politicians to debunk that kind of stuff early on, because we now see what happens to it when it gets legs and is allowed to walk.

House Dems briefed on 3 ongoing plots.
On Morning Joe this morning, among the things the congressman were told was that they would be reimbursed if they went out and bought a bullet proof vest


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats...5b691806c4bf199

Didn’t I educated you on the use of the term drinking grape soda and the racist context? Maybe this post was in absence of malice but I think not.