Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:23 PM
100% on trump IMO
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:24 PM
trump
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:29 PM
When you are the president of the United States, you don't get people who follow you to disband by telling them that you love them, that they are special, that their cause is just, but "to go home."
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:30 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:34 PM
100% Trump and every sycophant politician that before the violence enabled Trump to continue to stoke the flames of hate and division by lying about a stolen election that Trump lost in a landslide.
100% Trump and the media that cow-tows to him and spins the lies that he spews.
I was wondering last night if there is a chance Trump is truly, truly insane. I've always assumed and credited him with lying and spinning these hate messages and enabling the xenophobia while at the same time believing that he didn't believe what he was saying, he was just playing a part and manipulating the media and his base .... I'm honestly not sure any more.
100% Trump and the media that cow-tows to him and spins the lies that he spews.
I was wondering last night if there is a chance Trump is truly, truly insane. I've always assumed and credited him with lying and spinning these hate messages and enabling the xenophobia while at the same time believing that he didn't believe what he was saying, he was just playing a part and manipulating the media and his base .... I'm honestly not sure any more.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:35 PM
This is Trump's MURICA !
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:48 PM
Caption this.....
Officer says “You have the right to remain silent”
Trump. “That’s not going to happen”
Officer says “You have the right to remain silent”
Trump. “That’s not going to happen”
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:50 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 01:53 PM
The short, accurate answer to your question is the obvious one. But let's say that somehow Trump is actually held accountable for his actions (remember... the people who would actually execute on this have absolutely no motivation to begin setting the expectation of accountability)... then what? Let's say he's paraded around Circi-style (SHAME!) and then thrown in prison. Then what? The divide that allowed him to rise to power is still there; and in that there is much more shared responsibility.
Ideally, though... what would happen when something shocking like this occurs is everyone.... every single person... takes a good long look inside to see what they could have done differently that would have helped prevent the whole thing (from the leadup to 2016) from happening.
Ideally, though... what would happen when something shocking like this occurs is everyone.... every single person... takes a good long look inside to see what they could have done differently that would have helped prevent the whole thing (from the leadup to 2016) from happening.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:02 PM
Starts with Trump... But doesn't end there. Republicans in the senate and house that stoked the lies put forth by Trump.
Start with Cruz, Hawley and of course Gohmert.
They need to pay for their actions
Start with Cruz, Hawley and of course Gohmert.
They need to pay for their actions
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:11 PM
This is a truly excellent read:
Trump Has Always Been a Wolf in Wolf’s Clothing
Ezra Klein
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/opinion/trump-capitol-protests.html
For years, there has been a mantra that Republicans have recited to comfort themselves about President Trump — both about the things he says and the support they offer him. Trump, they’d say, should be taken seriously, not literally. The coinage comes from a 2016 article in The Atlantic by Salena Zito, in which she complained that the press took Trump “literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally.”
For Republican elites, this was a helpful two-step. If Trump’s words were understood as layered in folksy exaggeration and schtick — designed to trigger media pedants, but perfectly legible to his salt-of-the-earth supporters — then much that would be too grotesque or false to embrace literally could be carefully endorsed at best and ignored as poor comedy at worst. And Republican elites could walk the line between eviscerating their reputations and enraging their party’s leader, all while blaming the media for caricaturing Trumpism by reporting Trump’s words accurately.
On Nov. 5, 2020, just days after the election, Vice President Mike Pence offered a classic of the genre. As Trump declared the election stolen, in terms as clear as a fist to the face, Pence tried to take him seriously, not literally; to signal solidarity with Trump’s fury while backing away from the actual claims. “I stand with President @RealDonaldTrump,” he tweeted. “We must count every LEGAL vote.”
But Trump did not want every legal vote counted. He wanted legally counted votes to be erased; he wanted new votes discovered in his favor. He wanted to win, not lose; whatever the cost, whatever the means. And every day since, he has turned up the pressure, leading to the bizarre theory that took hold of Trumpists in recent weeks that the vice president was empowered to accept or reject the results of the election on Jan. 6; that Pence could, single-handedly, right this wrong. And so, after years of loyal service, of daily debasements and constant humiliations, Trump came for Pence, too, declaring him just one more enemy of the people.
“Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution,” Trump raged, torching whatever rapport Pence had built with his base.
On Wednesday, at the Capitol, those who took Trump seriously and those who took Trump literally collided in spectacular fashion. Inside the building, a rump of Republican senators, led by Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, were leading a feckless challenge to the Electoral College results. They had no pathway to overturning the results and they knew it. They had no evidence that the results should be overturned and they knew it. And they did not act or speak like they truly believed the election had been stolen. They were there to take Trump’s concerns seriously, not literally, in the hopes that his supporters might become their supporters in 2024.
But at the same time, Trump was telling his supporters that the election had actually been stolen, and that it was up to them to resist. And they took him literally. They did not experience this as performative grievance; they experienced it as a profound assault. They stormed the Capitol, attacked police officers, shattered doors and barriers, looted congressional offices. One woman was shot in the mayhem and died.
If their actions looked like lunacy to you, imagine it from their perspective, from within the epistemic structure in which they live. The president of the United States told them the election had been stolen by the Democratic Party, that they were being denied power and representation they had rightfully won. “I know your pain,” he said, in his video from the White house lawn later on Wednesday. “I know your hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it.” More than a dozen Republican senators, more than 100 Republican House members, and countless conservative media figures had backed Trump’s claims.
If the self-styled revolutionaries were lawless, that was because their leaders told them that the law had already been broken, and in the most profound, irreversible way. If their response was extreme, so too was the crime. If landslide victories can fall to Democratic chicanery, then politics collapses into meaninglessness. How could the thieves be allowed to escape into the night, with full control of the federal government as their prize? A majority of Republicans now believe the election was stolen, and a plurality endorse insurrection as a response. A snap YouGov poll found that 45 percent of Republicans approved of the storming of the Capitol; 43 percent opposed it.
Trump’s great virtue, as a public figure, is his literalism. His statements may be littered with lies, but he is honest about who he is and what he intends. When he lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in 2016, he declared that “Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it.” When it seemed likely he would lose the presidential election to Hillary Clinton, he began calling the election rigged. When he wanted the president of Ukraine to open a corruption investigation into Joe Biden, he made the demand directly, on a taped call. When he was asked, during the presidential debates in 2020, if he would commit to a peaceful transfer of power in the event of a loss, he refused. There was no subterfuge from Trump leading up to the terrible events of Jan. 6. He called this shot, over and over again, and then he took it.
The Republican Party that has aided and abetted Trump is all the more contemptible because it fills the press with quotes making certain that we know that it knows better. In a line that will come to define this sordid era (and sordid party), a senior Republican told The Washington Post, “What is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time? No one seriously thinks the results will change.” What happened on Wednesday in Washington is the downside. Millions of Americans will take you literally. They will not know you are “humoring” the most powerful man in the world. They will feel betrayed and desperate. Some of them will be armed.
The Trump era has often come wrapped in a cloak of self-protective irony. We have been asked to separate the man from his tweets, to believe that Trump doesn’t mean what he says, that he doesn’t intend to act on his beliefs, that he isn’t what he obviously is. Any divergence between word and reality has been enlisted into this cause. That Trump has failed to achieve much of what he promised because of his incompetence and distractibility has been recast as a sign of a more cautious core. The constraints placed upon him by other institutions or bureaucratic actors have been reframed as evidence that he never intended to follow through on his wilder pronouncements. This was a convenient fiction for the Republican Party, but it was a disastrous fantasy for the country. And now it has collapsed.
When the literalists rushed the chamber, Pence, Cruz and Hawley were among those who had to be evacuated, for their own safety. Some of their compatriots, like Senator Kelly Loeffler, rescinded their objections to the election, seemingly shaken by the beast they had unleashed. But there is no real refuge from the movement they fed. Trump’s legions are still out there, and now they are mourning a death and feeling yet more deceived by many of their supposed allies in Washington, who turned on them as soon as they did what they thought they had been asked to do.
The problem isn’t those who took Trump at his word from the start. It’s the many, many elected Republicans who took him neither seriously nor literally, but cynically. They have brought this upon themselves — and us.
Trump Has Always Been a Wolf in Wolf’s Clothing
Ezra Klein
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/opinion/trump-capitol-protests.html
Quote:
For years, there has been a mantra that Republicans have recited to comfort themselves about President Trump — both about the things he says and the support they offer him. Trump, they’d say, should be taken seriously, not literally. The coinage comes from a 2016 article in The Atlantic by Salena Zito, in which she complained that the press took Trump “literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally.”
For Republican elites, this was a helpful two-step. If Trump’s words were understood as layered in folksy exaggeration and schtick — designed to trigger media pedants, but perfectly legible to his salt-of-the-earth supporters — then much that would be too grotesque or false to embrace literally could be carefully endorsed at best and ignored as poor comedy at worst. And Republican elites could walk the line between eviscerating their reputations and enraging their party’s leader, all while blaming the media for caricaturing Trumpism by reporting Trump’s words accurately.
On Nov. 5, 2020, just days after the election, Vice President Mike Pence offered a classic of the genre. As Trump declared the election stolen, in terms as clear as a fist to the face, Pence tried to take him seriously, not literally; to signal solidarity with Trump’s fury while backing away from the actual claims. “I stand with President @RealDonaldTrump,” he tweeted. “We must count every LEGAL vote.”
But Trump did not want every legal vote counted. He wanted legally counted votes to be erased; he wanted new votes discovered in his favor. He wanted to win, not lose; whatever the cost, whatever the means. And every day since, he has turned up the pressure, leading to the bizarre theory that took hold of Trumpists in recent weeks that the vice president was empowered to accept or reject the results of the election on Jan. 6; that Pence could, single-handedly, right this wrong. And so, after years of loyal service, of daily debasements and constant humiliations, Trump came for Pence, too, declaring him just one more enemy of the people.
“Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution,” Trump raged, torching whatever rapport Pence had built with his base.
On Wednesday, at the Capitol, those who took Trump seriously and those who took Trump literally collided in spectacular fashion. Inside the building, a rump of Republican senators, led by Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, were leading a feckless challenge to the Electoral College results. They had no pathway to overturning the results and they knew it. They had no evidence that the results should be overturned and they knew it. And they did not act or speak like they truly believed the election had been stolen. They were there to take Trump’s concerns seriously, not literally, in the hopes that his supporters might become their supporters in 2024.
But at the same time, Trump was telling his supporters that the election had actually been stolen, and that it was up to them to resist. And they took him literally. They did not experience this as performative grievance; they experienced it as a profound assault. They stormed the Capitol, attacked police officers, shattered doors and barriers, looted congressional offices. One woman was shot in the mayhem and died.
If their actions looked like lunacy to you, imagine it from their perspective, from within the epistemic structure in which they live. The president of the United States told them the election had been stolen by the Democratic Party, that they were being denied power and representation they had rightfully won. “I know your pain,” he said, in his video from the White house lawn later on Wednesday. “I know your hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it.” More than a dozen Republican senators, more than 100 Republican House members, and countless conservative media figures had backed Trump’s claims.
If the self-styled revolutionaries were lawless, that was because their leaders told them that the law had already been broken, and in the most profound, irreversible way. If their response was extreme, so too was the crime. If landslide victories can fall to Democratic chicanery, then politics collapses into meaninglessness. How could the thieves be allowed to escape into the night, with full control of the federal government as their prize? A majority of Republicans now believe the election was stolen, and a plurality endorse insurrection as a response. A snap YouGov poll found that 45 percent of Republicans approved of the storming of the Capitol; 43 percent opposed it.
Trump’s great virtue, as a public figure, is his literalism. His statements may be littered with lies, but he is honest about who he is and what he intends. When he lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in 2016, he declared that “Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it.” When it seemed likely he would lose the presidential election to Hillary Clinton, he began calling the election rigged. When he wanted the president of Ukraine to open a corruption investigation into Joe Biden, he made the demand directly, on a taped call. When he was asked, during the presidential debates in 2020, if he would commit to a peaceful transfer of power in the event of a loss, he refused. There was no subterfuge from Trump leading up to the terrible events of Jan. 6. He called this shot, over and over again, and then he took it.
The Republican Party that has aided and abetted Trump is all the more contemptible because it fills the press with quotes making certain that we know that it knows better. In a line that will come to define this sordid era (and sordid party), a senior Republican told The Washington Post, “What is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time? No one seriously thinks the results will change.” What happened on Wednesday in Washington is the downside. Millions of Americans will take you literally. They will not know you are “humoring” the most powerful man in the world. They will feel betrayed and desperate. Some of them will be armed.
The Trump era has often come wrapped in a cloak of self-protective irony. We have been asked to separate the man from his tweets, to believe that Trump doesn’t mean what he says, that he doesn’t intend to act on his beliefs, that he isn’t what he obviously is. Any divergence between word and reality has been enlisted into this cause. That Trump has failed to achieve much of what he promised because of his incompetence and distractibility has been recast as a sign of a more cautious core. The constraints placed upon him by other institutions or bureaucratic actors have been reframed as evidence that he never intended to follow through on his wilder pronouncements. This was a convenient fiction for the Republican Party, but it was a disastrous fantasy for the country. And now it has collapsed.
When the literalists rushed the chamber, Pence, Cruz and Hawley were among those who had to be evacuated, for their own safety. Some of their compatriots, like Senator Kelly Loeffler, rescinded their objections to the election, seemingly shaken by the beast they had unleashed. But there is no real refuge from the movement they fed. Trump’s legions are still out there, and now they are mourning a death and feeling yet more deceived by many of their supposed allies in Washington, who turned on them as soon as they did what they thought they had been asked to do.
The problem isn’t those who took Trump at his word from the start. It’s the many, many elected Republicans who took him neither seriously nor literally, but cynically. They have brought this upon themselves — and us.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:12 PM
Oh stop. Trump and his lunatic base did this all. There was nothing we could have done to prevent this. Only trump could have prevented this. Stop directing this back on US! This is an act of treason and if it isn’t handled like treason it will happen again. We need to prosecute this to the full extent of the law. Everyone involved, trump and trump jr. including the senate cronies like Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham and others who have enabled and elevated trump into this position of authoritarian leader.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:20 PM
trump must be held accountable.
These were his people. They carried his flag into the capitol.
Then the FBI must review all tape. Then track down and prosecute every person who stormed the steps and entered the capitol.
I don't care if trump has one day left in office.
This must be addressed. He can not be allowed in office.
Congress, and the cabinet, must show the American people that this will not be tolerated.
trump continues to deny the election results.
There is no further proof needed to remove trump from office.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:25 PM
Obama and Hillary.... oh and Soros.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:27 PM
40 cent’s boomerang hamma should be on it’s return orbit and about to come down anytime.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:39 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
The short, accurate answer to your question is the obvious one. But let's say that somehow Trump is actually held accountable for his actions (remember... the people who would actually execute on this have absolutely no motivation to begin setting the expectation of accountability)... then what? Let's say he's paraded around Circi-style (SHAME!) and then thrown in prison. Then what? The divide that allowed him to rise to power is still there; and in that there is much more shared responsibility.
Ideally, though... what would happen when something shocking like this occurs is everyone.... every single person... takes a good long look inside to see what they could have done differently that would have helped prevent the whole thing (from the leadup to 2016) from happening.
Ideally, though... what would happen when something shocking like this occurs is everyone.... every single person... takes a good long look inside to see what they could have done differently that would have helped prevent the whole thing (from the leadup to 2016) from happening.
Yeah, I agree. Trump is acutely responsible for the situation that happened yesterday, but he's the tip of the iceberg. The visible part that you see, while 80% of the overarching problem lies beneath the surface.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:48 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
40 cent’s boomerang hamma should be on it’s return orbit and about to come down anytime.
He was a board troll. Not a Browns fan. My guess is we’ll never see him again.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 02:55 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Oh stop. Trump and his lunatic base did this all. There was nothing we could have done to prevent this. Only trump could have prevented this. Stop directing this back on US! This is an act of treason and if it isn’t handled like treason it will happen again. We need to prosecute this to the full extent of the law. Everyone involved, trump and trump jr. including the senate cronies like Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham and others who have enabled and elevated trump into this position of authoritarian leader.
I don't mean to speak for oober, because he is totally capable of speaking for himself, but I think you read his statement wrong. I think he agrees with the despicability and culpability of the parties you mention.
He is also talking about a clear divide though that is underlying the situation. Trump, Graham, Cruz, Hawley, etc. are all opportunists. They took advantage of the divide and the dynamic for their own self gain.
What he is saying is basically that, if you take the head off the snow man, the torso and the body are still there. Somebody else can still come by and put a different head on top.
The base is the problem. Hopefully, after the events yesterday, those who are part of the base, who are not beyond hope already, do some soul-searching about what the eff is behind what just happened.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 03:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
This is a truly excellent read:
Trump Has Always Been a Wolf in Wolf’s Clothing
Ezra Klein
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/opinion/trump-capitol-protests.html
For years, there has been a mantra that Republicans have recited to comfort themselves about President Trump — both about the things he says and the support they offer him. Trump, they’d say, should be taken seriously, not literally. The coinage comes from a 2016 article in The Atlantic by Salena Zito, in which she complained that the press took Trump “literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally.”
For Republican elites, this was a helpful two-step. If Trump’s words were understood as layered in folksy exaggeration and schtick — designed to trigger media pedants, but perfectly legible to his salt-of-the-earth supporters — then much that would be too grotesque or false to embrace literally could be carefully endorsed at best and ignored as poor comedy at worst. And Republican elites could walk the line between eviscerating their reputations and enraging their party’s leader, all while blaming the media for caricaturing Trumpism by reporting Trump’s words accurately.
On Nov. 5, 2020, just days after the election, Vice President Mike Pence offered a classic of the genre. As Trump declared the election stolen, in terms as clear as a fist to the face, Pence tried to take him seriously, not literally; to signal solidarity with Trump’s fury while backing away from the actual claims. “I stand with President @RealDonaldTrump,” he tweeted. “We must count every LEGAL vote.”
But Trump did not want every legal vote counted. He wanted legally counted votes to be erased; he wanted new votes discovered in his favor. He wanted to win, not lose; whatever the cost, whatever the means. And every day since, he has turned up the pressure, leading to the bizarre theory that took hold of Trumpists in recent weeks that the vice president was empowered to accept or reject the results of the election on Jan. 6; that Pence could, single-handedly, right this wrong. And so, after years of loyal service, of daily debasements and constant humiliations, Trump came for Pence, too, declaring him just one more enemy of the people.
“Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution,” Trump raged, torching whatever rapport Pence had built with his base.
On Wednesday, at the Capitol, those who took Trump seriously and those who took Trump literally collided in spectacular fashion. Inside the building, a rump of Republican senators, led by Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, were leading a feckless challenge to the Electoral College results. They had no pathway to overturning the results and they knew it. They had no evidence that the results should be overturned and they knew it. And they did not act or speak like they truly believed the election had been stolen. They were there to take Trump’s concerns seriously, not literally, in the hopes that his supporters might become their supporters in 2024.
But at the same time, Trump was telling his supporters that the election had actually been stolen, and that it was up to them to resist. And they took him literally. They did not experience this as performative grievance; they experienced it as a profound assault. They stormed the Capitol, attacked police officers, shattered doors and barriers, looted congressional offices. One woman was shot in the mayhem and died.
If their actions looked like lunacy to you, imagine it from their perspective, from within the epistemic structure in which they live. The president of the United States told them the election had been stolen by the Democratic Party, that they were being denied power and representation they had rightfully won. “I know your pain,” he said, in his video from the White house lawn later on Wednesday. “I know your hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it.” More than a dozen Republican senators, more than 100 Republican House members, and countless conservative media figures had backed Trump’s claims.
If the self-styled revolutionaries were lawless, that was because their leaders told them that the law had already been broken, and in the most profound, irreversible way. If their response was extreme, so too was the crime. If landslide victories can fall to Democratic chicanery, then politics collapses into meaninglessness. How could the thieves be allowed to escape into the night, with full control of the federal government as their prize? A majority of Republicans now believe the election was stolen, and a plurality endorse insurrection as a response. A snap YouGov poll found that 45 percent of Republicans approved of the storming of the Capitol; 43 percent opposed it.
Trump’s great virtue, as a public figure, is his literalism. His statements may be littered with lies, but he is honest about who he is and what he intends. When he lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in 2016, he declared that “Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it.” When it seemed likely he would lose the presidential election to Hillary Clinton, he began calling the election rigged. When he wanted the president of Ukraine to open a corruption investigation into Joe Biden, he made the demand directly, on a taped call. When he was asked, during the presidential debates in 2020, if he would commit to a peaceful transfer of power in the event of a loss, he refused. There was no subterfuge from Trump leading up to the terrible events of Jan. 6. He called this shot, over and over again, and then he took it.
The Republican Party that has aided and abetted Trump is all the more contemptible because it fills the press with quotes making certain that we know that it knows better. In a line that will come to define this sordid era (and sordid party), a senior Republican told The Washington Post, “What is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time? No one seriously thinks the results will change.” What happened on Wednesday in Washington is the downside. Millions of Americans will take you literally. They will not know you are “humoring” the most powerful man in the world. They will feel betrayed and desperate. Some of them will be armed.
The Trump era has often come wrapped in a cloak of self-protective irony. We have been asked to separate the man from his tweets, to believe that Trump doesn’t mean what he says, that he doesn’t intend to act on his beliefs, that he isn’t what he obviously is. Any divergence between word and reality has been enlisted into this cause. That Trump has failed to achieve much of what he promised because of his incompetence and distractibility has been recast as a sign of a more cautious core. The constraints placed upon him by other institutions or bureaucratic actors have been reframed as evidence that he never intended to follow through on his wilder pronouncements. This was a convenient fiction for the Republican Party, but it was a disastrous fantasy for the country. And now it has collapsed.
When the literalists rushed the chamber, Pence, Cruz and Hawley were among those who had to be evacuated, for their own safety. Some of their compatriots, like Senator Kelly Loeffler, rescinded their objections to the election, seemingly shaken by the beast they had unleashed. But there is no real refuge from the movement they fed. Trump’s legions are still out there, and now they are mourning a death and feeling yet more deceived by many of their supposed allies in Washington, who turned on them as soon as they did what they thought they had been asked to do.
The problem isn’t those who took Trump at his word from the start. It’s the many, many elected Republicans who took him neither seriously nor literally, but cynically. They have brought this upon themselves — and us.
Trump Has Always Been a Wolf in Wolf’s Clothing
Ezra Klein
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/opinion/trump-capitol-protests.html
Quote:
For years, there has been a mantra that Republicans have recited to comfort themselves about President Trump — both about the things he says and the support they offer him. Trump, they’d say, should be taken seriously, not literally. The coinage comes from a 2016 article in The Atlantic by Salena Zito, in which she complained that the press took Trump “literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally.”
For Republican elites, this was a helpful two-step. If Trump’s words were understood as layered in folksy exaggeration and schtick — designed to trigger media pedants, but perfectly legible to his salt-of-the-earth supporters — then much that would be too grotesque or false to embrace literally could be carefully endorsed at best and ignored as poor comedy at worst. And Republican elites could walk the line between eviscerating their reputations and enraging their party’s leader, all while blaming the media for caricaturing Trumpism by reporting Trump’s words accurately.
On Nov. 5, 2020, just days after the election, Vice President Mike Pence offered a classic of the genre. As Trump declared the election stolen, in terms as clear as a fist to the face, Pence tried to take him seriously, not literally; to signal solidarity with Trump’s fury while backing away from the actual claims. “I stand with President @RealDonaldTrump,” he tweeted. “We must count every LEGAL vote.”
But Trump did not want every legal vote counted. He wanted legally counted votes to be erased; he wanted new votes discovered in his favor. He wanted to win, not lose; whatever the cost, whatever the means. And every day since, he has turned up the pressure, leading to the bizarre theory that took hold of Trumpists in recent weeks that the vice president was empowered to accept or reject the results of the election on Jan. 6; that Pence could, single-handedly, right this wrong. And so, after years of loyal service, of daily debasements and constant humiliations, Trump came for Pence, too, declaring him just one more enemy of the people.
“Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution,” Trump raged, torching whatever rapport Pence had built with his base.
On Wednesday, at the Capitol, those who took Trump seriously and those who took Trump literally collided in spectacular fashion. Inside the building, a rump of Republican senators, led by Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, were leading a feckless challenge to the Electoral College results. They had no pathway to overturning the results and they knew it. They had no evidence that the results should be overturned and they knew it. And they did not act or speak like they truly believed the election had been stolen. They were there to take Trump’s concerns seriously, not literally, in the hopes that his supporters might become their supporters in 2024.
But at the same time, Trump was telling his supporters that the election had actually been stolen, and that it was up to them to resist. And they took him literally. They did not experience this as performative grievance; they experienced it as a profound assault. They stormed the Capitol, attacked police officers, shattered doors and barriers, looted congressional offices. One woman was shot in the mayhem and died.
If their actions looked like lunacy to you, imagine it from their perspective, from within the epistemic structure in which they live. The president of the United States told them the election had been stolen by the Democratic Party, that they were being denied power and representation they had rightfully won. “I know your pain,” he said, in his video from the White house lawn later on Wednesday. “I know your hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it.” More than a dozen Republican senators, more than 100 Republican House members, and countless conservative media figures had backed Trump’s claims.
If the self-styled revolutionaries were lawless, that was because their leaders told them that the law had already been broken, and in the most profound, irreversible way. If their response was extreme, so too was the crime. If landslide victories can fall to Democratic chicanery, then politics collapses into meaninglessness. How could the thieves be allowed to escape into the night, with full control of the federal government as their prize? A majority of Republicans now believe the election was stolen, and a plurality endorse insurrection as a response. A snap YouGov poll found that 45 percent of Republicans approved of the storming of the Capitol; 43 percent opposed it.
Trump’s great virtue, as a public figure, is his literalism. His statements may be littered with lies, but he is honest about who he is and what he intends. When he lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in 2016, he declared that “Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it.” When it seemed likely he would lose the presidential election to Hillary Clinton, he began calling the election rigged. When he wanted the president of Ukraine to open a corruption investigation into Joe Biden, he made the demand directly, on a taped call. When he was asked, during the presidential debates in 2020, if he would commit to a peaceful transfer of power in the event of a loss, he refused. There was no subterfuge from Trump leading up to the terrible events of Jan. 6. He called this shot, over and over again, and then he took it.
The Republican Party that has aided and abetted Trump is all the more contemptible because it fills the press with quotes making certain that we know that it knows better. In a line that will come to define this sordid era (and sordid party), a senior Republican told The Washington Post, “What is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time? No one seriously thinks the results will change.” What happened on Wednesday in Washington is the downside. Millions of Americans will take you literally. They will not know you are “humoring” the most powerful man in the world. They will feel betrayed and desperate. Some of them will be armed.
The Trump era has often come wrapped in a cloak of self-protective irony. We have been asked to separate the man from his tweets, to believe that Trump doesn’t mean what he says, that he doesn’t intend to act on his beliefs, that he isn’t what he obviously is. Any divergence between word and reality has been enlisted into this cause. That Trump has failed to achieve much of what he promised because of his incompetence and distractibility has been recast as a sign of a more cautious core. The constraints placed upon him by other institutions or bureaucratic actors have been reframed as evidence that he never intended to follow through on his wilder pronouncements. This was a convenient fiction for the Republican Party, but it was a disastrous fantasy for the country. And now it has collapsed.
When the literalists rushed the chamber, Pence, Cruz and Hawley were among those who had to be evacuated, for their own safety. Some of their compatriots, like Senator Kelly Loeffler, rescinded their objections to the election, seemingly shaken by the beast they had unleashed. But there is no real refuge from the movement they fed. Trump’s legions are still out there, and now they are mourning a death and feeling yet more deceived by many of their supposed allies in Washington, who turned on them as soon as they did what they thought they had been asked to do.
The problem isn’t those who took Trump at his word from the start. It’s the many, many elected Republicans who took him neither seriously nor literally, but cynically. They have brought this upon themselves — and us.
Brilliant and true.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 03:15 PM
They were Nazis.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 03:18 PM
Seems that one poster needs to reexamine his concern for genocide...
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 03:21 PM
The woman that was shot and killed yesterday retweeted this two days ago...
The irony is tragic, but on point.
She must have taken Diam’s (Juan Q Savin?) math class. Wonder if he knows her? Guess we’ll not find out as he has gone into hiding.
The irony is tragic, but on point.
She must have taken Diam’s (Juan Q Savin?) math class. Wonder if he knows her? Guess we’ll not find out as he has gone into hiding.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 03:26 PM
Her story is sad, but the moment she attempted to enter that hall she crossed a line the cop could not let her cross. It should be investigated at some point after the dust starts to settle, but IMHO she brought it on herself.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 03:53 PM
Sharing this in disbelief.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:00 PM
I’m curious as to how many of those in Congress that hid under their desks and scurried like rats when they thought armed hooligans had breached their confines took money from the NRA?
I also wonder if they have a new perspective about telling school systems to have active shooter drills and what that might feel I like to the teachers and children?
I also wonder if they have a new perspective about telling school systems to have active shooter drills and what that might feel I like to the teachers and children?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:15 PM
Facebook just indefinitely blocked Trump's accounts on Facebook and Instagram.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:25 PM
This entire episode makes me sick to my stomach.
Covid 17m doses and 3m vaccinated? Why not 24/7 and use every dose? Why is this happening?
Why not save lives?
Now this. A sitting president promotes his supporters by providing false information about a rigged election.
Then they take his message and assault the capitol of the United States.
This can not go unpunished.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:28 PM
Quote:
I don't mean to speak for oober, because he is totally capable of speaking for himself, but I think you read his statement wrong. I think he agrees with the despicability and culpability of the parties you mention.
He is also talking about a clear divide though that is underlying the situation. Trump, Graham, Cruz, Hawley, etc. are all opportunists. They took advantage of the divide and the dynamic for their own self gain.
What he is saying is basically that, if you take the head off the snow man, the torso and the body are still there. Somebody else can still come by and put a different head on top.
The base is the problem. Hopefully, after the events yesterday, those who are part of the base, who are not beyond hope already, do some soul-searching about what the eff is behind what just happened
He is also talking about a clear divide though that is underlying the situation. Trump, Graham, Cruz, Hawley, etc. are all opportunists. They took advantage of the divide and the dynamic for their own self gain.
What he is saying is basically that, if you take the head off the snow man, the torso and the body are still there. Somebody else can still come by and put a different head on top.
The base is the problem. Hopefully, after the events yesterday, those who are part of the base, who are not beyond hope already, do some soul-searching about what the eff is behind what just happened
I was talking about this statement
Quote:
Ideally, though... what would happen when something shocking like this occurs is everyone.... every single person... takes a good long look inside to see what they could have done differently that would have helped prevent the whole thing (from the leadup to 2016) from happening.
I did not take his statement wrong and I know Obber can speak very well for himself. I respect his opinions.
This was my reply to his statement.
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Oh stop. Trump and his lunatic base did this all. There was nothing we could have done to prevent this. Only trump could have prevented this. Stop directing this back on US! This is an act of treason and if it isn’t handled like treason it will happen again. We need to prosecute this to the full extent of the law. Everyone involved, trump and trump jr. including the senate cronies like Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham and others who have enabled and elevated trump into this position of authoritarian leader.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:29 PM
I have many many thoughts on what happened yesterday but the short answer is Donald J Trump.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:35 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Facebook just indefinitely blocked Trump's accounts on Facebook and Instagram.
Hey Purp! Can you please send trump an invite to join DT. After all it has his initials already.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:36 PM
First GOP lawmaker calls for invoking 25th Amendment to remove Trump
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/53311...to-remove-trump
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/53311...to-remove-trump
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:37 PM
[color:#FFCC33]For this atrocious, sickening display in our Capitol Building, @realDonaldTrump should be tried for #sedition. As a former federal prosecutor, I refer our next US Attorney General to 18 USC 2384 & 2385. May God bless and bring peace to our nation. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim[/color
Former federal prosecutor. San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo]
Former federal prosecutor. San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo]
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:47 PM
DC Police are now offering up to $1000 reward for info related. call 202 727 9099 or text 50411
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:49 PM
I blame the corporate pillagers who made a mockery of the democracy ages ago. Tie that with lousy governance during trying times and a fed up citizenry is bound to act out (and those on both "sides" have). Trump is the most disgusting/obvious symptom of the underlying disease, but blaming symptoms doesn't cure diseases.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 04:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
I blame the corporate pillagers who made a mockery of the democracy ages ago. Tie that with lousy governance during trying times and a fed up citizenry is bound to act out (and those on both "sides" have). Trump is the most disgusting/obvious symptom of the underlying disease, but blaming symptoms doesn't cure diseases.
Excuse me but attempting a coup inside the pinnacle of democracy is not a symptom of the disease. It’s the cause of a disease. Be gone with that crap.
We all know that die hard trump supporters are going white wash this any way they can.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:04 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I have many many thoughts on what happened yesterday but the short answer is Donald J Trump.
Lets add Giuliani to the list. He did call for “trial by combat” to the crowd.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:08 PM
Were any of the protesters armed? This is the first I've heard.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:21 PM
This idiot right here.
All of the big theories behind the "rigged" election comes from people who believe satanic pedophiles who drink the blood of children are in control of the government. Every. single. "rigged". theory. is traced straight back to QAnon.
This nonsense is dangerous and deserves to be mocked to high heaven.
All of the big theories behind the "rigged" election comes from people who believe satanic pedophiles who drink the blood of children are in control of the government. Every. single. "rigged". theory. is traced straight back to QAnon.
This nonsense is dangerous and deserves to be mocked to high heaven.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:22 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Were any of the protesters armed? This is the first I've heard.
Just heard on NPR that 25-50 law enforcement were treated - beaten with clubs ... one officer is going to lose and eye.
I don't want to imagine the death count by the police if BLM protesters had done that yesterday. Brings this atrocity to a whole new level of disgusting.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:26 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Were any of the protesters armed? This is the first I've heard.
Doesn’t matter. Pipe bombs found. And by the way they aren’t protesters, they are terrorists trying to overthrow our government.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
I blame the corporate pillagers who made a mockery of the democracy ages ago. Tie that with lousy governance during trying times and a fed up citizenry is bound to act out (and those on both "sides" have). Trump is the most disgusting/obvious symptom of the underlying disease, but blaming symptoms doesn't cure diseases.
Meh. Deflection.
How about we hold Trump and Rudy and Gohmert and Cruz and company accountable for their actions, words and what they set in motion?
How about we hold Biden accountable for his words, actions and whatever he sets in motion.
How about we deal with what's slapping us in the face instead of trying to deflect and play philosopher?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:32 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
I blame the corporate pillagers who made a mockery of the democracy ages ago. Tie that with lousy governance during trying times and a fed up citizenry is bound to act out (and those on both "sides" have). Trump is the most disgusting/obvious symptom of the underlying disease, but blaming symptoms doesn't cure diseases.
Excuse me but attempting a coup inside the pinnacle of democracy is not a symptom of the disease. It’s the cause of a disease. Be gone with that crap.
We all know that die hard trump supporters are going white wash this any way they can.
That kind of thinking will do absolutely nothing to fix anything meaningful after coming out of this. Nothing that contributed to putting Trump in the White House is addressed. I knew you wouldn't be able to see anything other than hate for Trump. How long will Trump remain your boogyman?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:33 PM
They have recovered weapons from yesterday.
Who knows if anyone of the people who entered had concealed handguns on them.
Who knows if anyone of the people who entered had concealed handguns on them.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:41 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
They were Nazis.
Are you sure this isn't ANTIFA? They kind of look like ANTIFA to me.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:52 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
I blame the corporate pillagers who made a mockery of the democracy ages ago. Tie that with lousy governance during trying times and a fed up citizenry is bound to act out (and those on both "sides" have). Trump is the most disgusting/obvious symptom of the underlying disease, but blaming symptoms doesn't cure diseases.
Excuse me but attempting a coup inside the pinnacle of democracy is not a symptom of the disease. It’s the cause of a disease. Be gone with that crap.
We all know that die hard trump supporters are going white wash this any way they can.
That kind of thinking will do absolutely nothing to fix anything meaningful after coming out of this. Nothing that contributed to putting Trump in the White House is addressed. I knew you wouldn't be able to see anything other than hate for Trump. How long will Trump remain your boogyman?
Really? my kind of thinking is to prosecute these terrorists to the fullest extent of the law right now. Including their instigators.
Putting trump in the White House was done by his supporters not by average Americans or even the majority, and then the deplorable GOP leaders coddled his every whim. This doesn’t need to be rehashed it’s the true history in full display everyday of this failed administration.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:53 PM
Just a thought ... what happens to people's opinions and who is accountable if a delusional Trump supporter, believing he is doing right by the country, assassinates Biden? I mean - looking at how the President has groomed and cultivated this fervent believe that America is being stolen from them, that would seem like a next step for one of these Whackos right?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 05:59 PM
I'm actually quite apprehensive about what will take place at the inauguration.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:01 PM
If people have the rights to keep their trump signs and flags flying I have the right to call them all terrorists. What I’m trying to say is anyone coming close to gov’t property remotely associated as a trump supporter should be arrested on site.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:02 PM
If you are identified as being in a restricted area outside or inside. Ten years in prison... next!
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
I blame the corporate pillagers who made a mockery of the democracy ages ago. Tie that with lousy governance during trying times and a fed up citizenry is bound to act out (and those on both "sides" have). Trump is the most disgusting/obvious symptom of the underlying disease, but blaming symptoms doesn't cure diseases.
The disease has never escalated to the point of sedition and and attacking our own government. It has never escalated to the point where a rally was held where a presidents lawyer called for "Trial by combat" and then our president sent them to the location of the battle.
You can blame the environment of division on both sides to some extent. But people have been fighting and even riots have broken out for social justice for decades now. While it doesn't diminish they are criminal acts when it becomes violent, this isn't something new or something that has come about by the current social climate.
You can try and spread the blame on the division around, but not what happened yesterday. That was all on Trump.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:04 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
That kind of thinking will do absolutely nothing to fix anything meaningful after coming out of this. Nothing that contributed to putting Trump in the White House is addressed. I knew you wouldn't be able to see anything other than hate for Trump. How long will Trump remain your boogyman?
I agree that there is much wrong with the system and that lead to Trump being enabled / elected. None of that will get addressed or fixed while we try to figure out what is the correct course of action to take today, after the incidents of yesterday. But using that "bigger picture" to avoid addressing what needs to be done today - with Trump directly influential (I'd say responsible for - but that might deflect from the discussion) - does a disservice to the events and the actions of people like Cruz and Gohmert who have fed this baseless conspiracy theory.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:09 PM
The libtard left is responsible. They made violence a daily event for months such that it became the norm and glamorized in the media.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:10 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:11 PM
Quote:
You can try and spread the blame on the division around,
That they will. It’s a given. It’s the way of trump. Distract and deflect. Then move on to the next stupid blunder move trump makes and forget this one. Not this time.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:13 PM
Putting Trump in the White House was absolutely done by average Americans who were disenfranchised with the state of our society. It couldn't have been done otherwise. I think to believe otherwise is delusional. In my opinion, I think these were average people who were rightfully frustrated with a poor establishment in place, but then, IMO, Trump manipulated that trust by validating it, vowing to drain the swamp and cure everything wrong, and then acted out in his own self-interest for four years while focusing his followers on fictitious villains.
Hitler didn't make it into power because of the Nazi party. That was his platform, for sure, but he made it into power because he pledged a sense of pride and renewal to the average, downtrodden citizen.
The point oober is making, and that I agree with, is that Trump is absolutely to blame for this. Yes, he needs to be held accountable. Yes, everyone needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
BUT, when that's over, we're still left with the quagmire that enabled him. I would argue that it's even worse, because now there's a validated play book on achieving demagogic power in a foundational democratic-republic. To overcome that, it will most definitely take all of us. It will definitely take both sides renewing their sense of getting a pulse of their constituents' needs, rather than pumping fear and anger into them to deflect from their own political self-ambitions.
It is when the average citizens renew their sense of faith and trust in the government that all the idiots get pushed back into the fringes.
Hitler didn't make it into power because of the Nazi party. That was his platform, for sure, but he made it into power because he pledged a sense of pride and renewal to the average, downtrodden citizen.
The point oober is making, and that I agree with, is that Trump is absolutely to blame for this. Yes, he needs to be held accountable. Yes, everyone needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
BUT, when that's over, we're still left with the quagmire that enabled him. I would argue that it's even worse, because now there's a validated play book on achieving demagogic power in a foundational democratic-republic. To overcome that, it will most definitely take all of us. It will definitely take both sides renewing their sense of getting a pulse of their constituents' needs, rather than pumping fear and anger into them to deflect from their own political self-ambitions.
It is when the average citizens renew their sense of faith and trust in the government that all the idiots get pushed back into the fringes.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:16 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
That kind of thinking will do absolutely nothing to fix anything meaningful after coming out of this. Nothing that contributed to putting Trump in the White House is addressed. I knew you wouldn't be able to see anything other than hate for Trump. How long will Trump remain your boogyman?
Trump is the boogeyman. His lawyer just told his followers "trial by combat" then trump sent them to the destination of the battle.
And here's the problem maybe you would like to address? As long as Trump keeps stoking the fire by calling the opposing party the enemy, as long as he continues to say that the opposing party is going to destroy America, as long as his followers keep listening to that, how do you propose we "fix this"?
You see, if you have enough gullible people willing to only listen to what they want to hear, who believes every lie that gets regurgitated out of Trumps mouth, there will be no solution.
The only solution that can be found is if, and only if, Republicans turn back to sane people like they had in John McCain and Mitt Romney to lead them. If they return to a time when it was the principals of their policies they stood on, not creating an enemy of our own citizens.
There used to be a lot of good political discussion on this board. It revolved around the issues and policies of the opposing parties. Not a cult of personality that stoked pure hatred and division. Not one with a fabricated and false sense of reality. While some disagreed with the policies and ideas of Mitt Romney or John McCain. They were men of character and standards.
Those days are gone. And only Republicans can fix that.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:16 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
The libtard left is responsible. They made violence a daily event for months such that it became the norm and glamorized in the media.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
You need another drink. I’m buying this round.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:17 PM
That is absurd.
Going down your line of thinking: I see Bill break into someone's car. He gets away with it and nobody calls the police. So, I break into someone's car because he got away with it. So, now it's Bill's fault that I broke into someone's car?
Going down your line of thinking: I see Bill break into someone's car. He gets away with it and nobody calls the police. So, I break into someone's car because he got away with it. So, now it's Bill's fault that I broke into someone's car?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:20 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
The libtard left is responsible. They made violence a daily event for months such that it became the norm and glamorized in the media.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
How adult of you. Let me explain something for the simpletons. We have seen riots over racial issues since the 60's, that's nothing new. Only when trump's lawyer told them "trial by combat" and then trump sent them into battle have we seen sedition against our own nation.
Then Trump told them he was going with them. Of course the coward wouldn't do it. He deserted them and went to watch them on TV like Benedict Arnold would do. I guess maybe his bone spurs were acting up again.
And now you use the same logic a child uses in grade school. "The liberals made me do it!"
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:22 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
That is absurd.
Going down your line of thinking: I see Bill break into someone's car. He gets away with it and nobody calls the police. So, I break into someone's car because he got away with it. So, now it's Bill's fault that I broke into someone's car?
Going down your line of thinking: I see Bill break into someone's car. He gets away with it and nobody calls the police. So, I break into someone's car because he got away with it. So, now it's Bill's fault that I broke into someone's car?
Maybe you should read what I wrote.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:22 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
The libtard left is responsible. They made violence a daily event for months such that it became the norm and glamorized in the media.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
You need another drink. I’m buying this round. Don't you have a cliff to be led off of?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:23 PM
She used to try and post. Now she has become nothing more than a troll. Someone had to fill in for 40 cent.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:24 PM
Clearly trump should be removed from office.
Prosecuted.
He should be unable to ever hold public office again.
trump and his family are done in American politics.
That is the only good that can come out of this.
There should be a million man March to vilify these actions taken against our democracy.
The people along with Congress and the Cabinet need to make it clear that this will not be tolerated.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:26 PM
I think there is a much greater burden on the Republicans. Much greater. I would not argue against that, whatsoever. They were the chief enablers and opportunists. Nothing can get fixed if that doesn't get fixed. And, sadly, I don't know how that gets fixed. There's too many dirtbags left in power on that side who would have to admit their faults (good luck).
I think there are two separate conversations going on now. One is who is at fault, which, for the most part, seems to be largely in agreement. The other is how we fix things.
Going to the latter part, I think what you said is correct. However, I can't help but see the early signs of fractions in the Democratic party that was present in the Republicans back in 2015. I don't think (hopefully) that it would lead to the Liberal version of Trump, but there is a need for the Dems to relate back to the average citizen.
If they go back to doing something like putting Hillary up as a candidate, they're going to falter in that regard.
I think there are two separate conversations going on now. One is who is at fault, which, for the most part, seems to be largely in agreement. The other is how we fix things.
Going to the latter part, I think what you said is correct. However, I can't help but see the early signs of fractions in the Democratic party that was present in the Republicans back in 2015. I don't think (hopefully) that it would lead to the Liberal version of Trump, but there is a need for the Dems to relate back to the average citizen.
If they go back to doing something like putting Hillary up as a candidate, they're going to falter in that regard.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:26 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
The libtard left is responsible. They made violence a daily event for months such that it became the norm and glamorized in the media.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
You need another drink. I’m buying this round. Don't you have a cliff to be led off of?
Yeah but I wasn’t stupid enough to follow you over it.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:28 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
The libtard left is responsible. They made violence a daily event for months such that it became the norm and glamorized in the media.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
You need another drink. I’m buying this round. Don't you have a cliff to be led off of?
Yeah but I wasn’t stupid enough to follow you over it.
You went over it a long time ago dude.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:28 PM
I don't see how anything I said was unresponsive. You blamed the "libtards" because they normalized violence.
Did you read what you wrote?
Did you read what you wrote?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:30 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
The libtard left is responsible. They made violence a daily event for months such that it became the norm and glamorized in the media.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
The libtards are too stupid to see it though.
https://www.betterhelp.com/?fbclid=IwAR0G53TxYQ07KYFu6WHESF1IR9eV4QHerHd4iwfqX8Iq_M0o7yaMA-8V2gM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:31 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
I don't see how anything I said was unresponsive. You blamed the "libtards" because they normalized violence.
Did you read what you wrote?
Did you read what you wrote?
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
Then you turn around and act suprised when the right fringe does something violent.
You reap what you sow.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:33 PM
Today trump called these criminals:
"great patriots"
Let that sink in.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:34 PM
My example stands.
Man, that is some first class deflection. Kudos.
Man, that is some first class deflection. Kudos.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:34 PM
Why don't you go start a poll.
The Left is on the precipice of criminalizing identity!
Something historically that happened to the Jews in 1930's Germany.
The Left is on the precipice of criminalizing identity!
Something historically that happened to the Jews in 1930's Germany.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:36 PM
I don't care about Trump. I have never cared about Trump.
Trump lives rent free in the libtard's heads. Their butt hairs are lit on fire every day.
It's kind of hysterical.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:38 PM
By the way, when did this become about being surprised? I don't think all that many are surprised that these people acted violently. I think many are surprised as to the magnitude.
The conversation was about who is to hold responsible. It's nice to know that someone else can act irresponsibly so that they get blamed when I act irresponsibly later.
The conversation was about who is to hold responsible. It's nice to know that someone else can act irresponsibly so that they get blamed when I act irresponsibly later.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:39 PM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
Why don't you go start a poll.
The Left is on the precipice of criminalizing identity!
Something historically that happened to the Jews in 1930's Germany.
The Left is on the precipice of criminalizing identity!
Something historically that happened to the Jews in 1930's Germany.
Please elaborate?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:40 PM
I would just like to add that I find it interesting he is using the holocaust to bolster his point when there were people there with shirts on yesterday that stated 6MNE or "Six Million Not Enough"...
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:42 PM
I don't really disagree with you. The divides run deep in both parties at this point. Many moderate Republicans have fled the party like the cancerous mess it has become. While the far extreme right or Trumpian portion of the party makes the most noise, there are still many common sense, moderate Republicans that exemplify what the others claim Republican values stand for.
I certainly differentiate between Republicans and Trumpians. With the loss of this election, not only in the presidential race, but losing the entire state of Georgia in the senate as well, I can see how a lot of Republicans may have a come to Jesus moment.
As far as the Democrats, yes there is a real division there as well. Much like many Republicans do with Democrats, many Democrats lump all Republicans the same. Both sides are 100% wrong. Anyone who actually follows this forum has seen myself and OCD go around and around. While we voted for the same candidate, we see the path forward very differently.
We have posters like DC who is what I consider a common sense, conservative yet moderate Republican. And he isn't alone in that. So IMO, both parties have huge divides within their ranks. The only difference I see at this moment in time is that the radical wing of the Republican party is currently in control of them... The moderate wing of the Democratic party is in charge of them. I think that in and of itself is what swung the presidential election.
As much screaming as Trump and his minions did, anyone who has paid attention to politics for long knew damned good and well that claiming Biden is some far left wing progressive was a lie.
The best I can hope for out of all of this is that both parties splinter. The far left of the Democrats and the far right of republicans start their own parties. At least at that point it wouldn't be hard to know the difference and we would all have four choices instead of two.
I certainly differentiate between Republicans and Trumpians. With the loss of this election, not only in the presidential race, but losing the entire state of Georgia in the senate as well, I can see how a lot of Republicans may have a come to Jesus moment.
As far as the Democrats, yes there is a real division there as well. Much like many Republicans do with Democrats, many Democrats lump all Republicans the same. Both sides are 100% wrong. Anyone who actually follows this forum has seen myself and OCD go around and around. While we voted for the same candidate, we see the path forward very differently.
We have posters like DC who is what I consider a common sense, conservative yet moderate Republican. And he isn't alone in that. So IMO, both parties have huge divides within their ranks. The only difference I see at this moment in time is that the radical wing of the Republican party is currently in control of them... The moderate wing of the Democratic party is in charge of them. I think that in and of itself is what swung the presidential election.
As much screaming as Trump and his minions did, anyone who has paid attention to politics for long knew damned good and well that claiming Biden is some far left wing progressive was a lie.
The best I can hope for out of all of this is that both parties splinter. The far left of the Democrats and the far right of republicans start their own parties. At least at that point it wouldn't be hard to know the difference and we would all have four choices instead of two.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:42 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
By the way, when did this become about being surprised? I don't think all that many are surprised that these people acted violently. I think many are surprised as to the magnitude.
The conversation was about who is to hold responsible. It's nice to know that someone else can act irresponsibly so that they get blamed when I act irresponsibly later.
The conversation was about who is to hold responsible. It's nice to know that someone else can act irresponsibly so that they get blamed when I act irresponsibly later.
Magnitude? This is nothing. Maybe they should start arson and looting like the libtards did. Take over parts of cities. You know, actual violence. And do it for the next 6 months.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:43 PM
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
The woman that was shot and killed yesterday retweeted this two days ago...
The irony is tragic, but on point.
The irony is tragic, but on point.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:44 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
If you believe that thats on you. No one was celebrating violence
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:44 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
If you believe that thats on you. No one was celebrating violence
People on this forum were celebrating violence.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:46 PM
I’m not going to put words into his mouth but does he actually think killing terrorists in our federal capitol building fighting off a coup and Nazi killing millions of Jews is the same thing is he?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:47 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
If you believe that thats on you. No one was celebrating violence
People on this forum were celebrating violence.
Oh the media is this board?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:47 PM
110% agree.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:48 PM
As per usual, now you're lying. You might find one or two examples of those who thought that violence was justified. Everyone else, regardless of party said they should be arrested and prosecuted for their crimes. You truly have become a troll.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:49 PM
People on this forum repeated many many times they were against the violence and wanted those perpetrating the violence to be held accountable.
Such a weak and disappointing response to see people try to pin what happened yesterday on 'Libtards'. I mean there are so many false equivalencies there it's not funny. But remind me - how many times do the 'Libtards' storm the Capitol Building? How many times did they take pipe bombs into the Capitol Building? How many 'Libtards' were arrested for attempted kidnapping?
Such a weak and disappointing response to see people try to pin what happened yesterday on 'Libtards'. I mean there are so many false equivalencies there it's not funny. But remind me - how many times do the 'Libtards' storm the Capitol Building? How many times did they take pipe bombs into the Capitol Building? How many 'Libtards' were arrested for attempted kidnapping?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:50 PM
People on this forum were celebrating violence.
You reap what you sow.
Maybe the fringe right should burn some crap down now.
You reap what you sow.
Maybe the fringe right should burn some crap down now.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:50 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
By the way, when did this become about being surprised? I don't think all that many are surprised that these people acted violently. I think many are surprised as to the magnitude.
The conversation was about who is to hold responsible. It's nice to know that someone else can act irresponsibly so that they get blamed when I act irresponsibly later.
The conversation was about who is to hold responsible. It's nice to know that someone else can act irresponsibly so that they get blamed when I act irresponsibly later.
Magnitude? This is nothing. Maybe they should start arson and looting like the libtards did. Take over parts of cities. You know, actual violence. And do it for the next 6 months.
There you have it. Storming and taking over the Capitol is nothing, apparently.
Deflection.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:50 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
That kind of thinking will do absolutely nothing to fix anything meaningful after coming out of this. Nothing that contributed to putting Trump in the White House is addressed. I knew you wouldn't be able to see anything other than hate for Trump. How long will Trump remain your boogyman?
I agree that there is much wrong with the system and that lead to Trump being enabled / elected. None of that will get addressed or fixed while we try to figure out what is the correct course of action to take today, after the incidents of yesterday. But using that "bigger picture" to avoid addressing what needs to be done today - with Trump directly influential (I'd say responsible for - but that might deflect from the discussion) - does a disservice to the events and the actions of people like Cruz and Gohmert who have fed this baseless conspiracy theory.
Thank you for actually engaging your brain. It can be difficult to find people willing to do that in these threads.
My earlier post said you have to first address what happened yesterday. Though it probably won't happen, it should.
but
Even if you put Trump's head on a pike and leave it out there as an example, that doesn't actually do anything to fix the underlying problem that got us here. You still have a whole mess of people that think the election was stolen. You still have a bunch of clowns in the House and Senate that fought the counting of votes (though many saw and acknowledged that the jig was up).
If there's anything that this tells us it's that we, as the voting population of the US, are who allowed this to happen by not demanding at least a minimum from our elected officials and then failing to hold them accountable (in the only way they know, by voting). Per the poster that keeps responding to me, there are people that simply refuse to put their pointing figure down and engage in productive action. I don't know why this is so hard after what we witnessed yesterday.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:51 PM
Show you're evidence of that. People is plural, so show us "those people". Or are you going to pull a Trump and ask us to "trust you"?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:51 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
If you believe that thats on you. No one was celebrating violence
People on this forum were celebrating violence.
As trump supporters celebrated the killing of innocent black lives.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:52 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
If you believe that thats on you. No one was celebrating violence
People on this forum were celebrating violence.
As trump supporters celebrated the killing of innocent black lives.
Nobody celebrates the killing of anybody. Unless you're on the left.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:53 PM
I probably didn't word is as fully or as well - but I said the same thing after the election.
70 million voted for Trump. After he had led an incompetent, chaos filled 4 years in office. People need to wake up and recognize that is an issue that needs addressing.
70 million voted for Trump. After he had led an incompetent, chaos filled 4 years in office. People need to wake up and recognize that is an issue that needs addressing.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:56 PM
I see no humor in any of this.
He is threatening the security of this country.
His actions and support of these criminals is clear.
He should be basically put into a Congressional straight jacket.
Pence should take over the vacancy so that security of the country can be insured against any foreign government who may try to take advantage of this tragic event.
If you see humor here. That is sad.
Because people died and the capitol of this country was assaulted by armed insurgents who are citizens.
Waving trump and confederate flags in the halls of Congress.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:56 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
If you believe that thats on you. No one was celebrating violence
People on this forum were celebrating violence.
As trump supporters celebrated the killing of innocent black lives.
Nobody celebrates the killing of anybody. Unless you're on the left.
IMO People on this board celebrated the death of innocent black lives. And you aren’t helping me to change my mind about it.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:57 PM
There are a handful of posters on here that I enjoy responding to and hearing what they say and you're one of them. I always appreciate your responses/corrections, etc.
You worded it fine, I was more frustrated at myself for actually expecting more from others on here.
You worded it fine, I was more frustrated at myself for actually expecting more from others on here.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 06:58 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
If you believe that thats on you. No one was celebrating violence
People on this forum were celebrating violence.
As trump supporters celebrated the killing of innocent black lives.
Nobody celebrates the killing of anybody. Unless you're on the left.
Hear that splash? Thats Eve going off the deep end
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:03 PM
That was the sound of another shooter down the hatch.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:03 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Nobody celebrates the killing of anybody. Unless you're on the left.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:05 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
I probably didn't word is as fully or as well - but I said the same thing after the election.
70 million voted for Trump. After he had led an incompetent, chaos filled 4 years in office. People need to wake up and recognize that is an issue that needs addressing.
70 million voted for Trump. After he had led an incompetent, chaos filled 4 years in office. People need to wake up and recognize that is an issue that needs addressing.
I think you just said something that I have been trying to say in multiple posts.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:10 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
I probably didn't word is as fully or as well - but I said the same thing after the election.
70 million voted for Trump. After he had led an incompetent, chaos filled 4 years in office. People need to wake up and recognize that is an issue that needs addressing.
70 million voted for Trump. After he had led an incompetent, chaos filled 4 years in office. People need to wake up and recognize that is an issue that needs addressing.
Nearly 80 million woke people made that recognition long ago so it’s already been addressed.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:11 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
So you are saying the libtards didn't normalize violence? There's months and months of them doing this in 2020? The morons on the left thought it was great. It was celebrated by the media.
If you believe that thats on you. No one was celebrating violence
People on this forum were celebrating violence.
As trump supporters celebrated the killing of innocent black lives.
Nobody celebrates the killing of anybody. Unless you're on the left.
Hear that splash? Thats Eve going off the deep end
No, there has been cop killings and people on this board celebrating it.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:12 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
There are a handful of posters on here that I enjoy responding to and hearing what they say and you're one of them. I always appreciate your responses/corrections, etc.
You worded it fine, I was more frustrated at myself for actually expecting more from others on here.
You worded it fine, I was more frustrated at myself for actually expecting more from others on here.
Kind of you and appreciated! I have my moments when I vent a little too much and I sometimes 'respond in kind' to the troll like posts. But at least I recognize that
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:15 PM
I don't think it's been addressed because more people rose up against it.
If it was something like 120 million vs 30 million, then maybe it wouldn't be as big of an issue.
70 million is a lot of people considering everything we've seen.
If it was something like 120 million vs 30 million, then maybe it wouldn't be as big of an issue.
70 million is a lot of people considering everything we've seen.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:17 PM
More lies from our latest resident troll.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:20 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
I don't think it's been addressed because more people rose up against it.
If it was something like 120 million vs 30 million, then maybe it wouldn't be as big of an issue.
70 million is a lot of people considering everything we've seen.
If it was something like 120 million vs 30 million, then maybe it wouldn't be as big of an issue.
70 million is a lot of people considering everything we've seen.
If it hasn’t been addressed trump would still be relevant. He’s not.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:21 PM
I honestly don't know how else I can relate the central issue to you.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:23 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
More lies from our latest resident troll.
It's not a lie. Remember about 5 years ago in Texas when a black sniper was killing cops.
A left member of this forum said 1) The cops deserved to die and 2) They celebrated their death.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:30 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
I honestly don't know how else I can relate the central issue to you.
The issue is that this is 100% on trump and his supporters. They attacked the capitol and they need to be held accountable. Your central issue is distracting this thread. from the present issue of holding these terrorists responsible for their actions.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:31 PM
Here's the problem. You said "people" which is plural. You claimed it was a thing only the left would do. You do understand that there are groups on the far right like the Proud Boys who celebrate the deaths of people as well, right?
What you have done by claiming it was "people on this board" is try to claim it was more than one person.
Was there an exception to the rule? Possibly so. I don't remember the exact wording but if you aren't 100% accurate, you're pretty damned close. But that isn't "people". It isn't something you can blame on "libtards".
I'm more than willing to hold conversations. But when you come on here with guns blazing making false generalizations, there's nothing to base a conversation on.
What you have done by claiming it was "people on this board" is try to claim it was more than one person.
Was there an exception to the rule? Possibly so. I don't remember the exact wording but if you aren't 100% accurate, you're pretty damned close. But that isn't "people". It isn't something you can blame on "libtards".
I'm more than willing to hold conversations. But when you come on here with guns blazing making false generalizations, there's nothing to base a conversation on.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:34 PM
George Floyd was killed May 25th.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd
Your people stormed the Michigan Capital building while armed on April 30th
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496514
So by your logic the these people are the ones who are responsible.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd
Your people stormed the Michigan Capital building while armed on April 30th
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496514
So by your logic the these people are the ones who are responsible.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:35 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Here's the problem. You said "people" which is plural. You claimed it was a thing only the left would do. You do understand that there are groups on the far right like the Proud Boys who celebrate the deaths of people as well, right?
What you have done by claiming it was "people on this board" is try to claim it was more than one person.
Was there an exception to the rule? Possibly so. I don't remember the exact wording but if you aren't 100% accurate, you're pretty damned close. But that isn't "people". It isn't something you can blame on "libtards".
I'm more than willing to hold conversations. But when you come on here with guns blazing making false generalizations, there's nothing to base a conversation on.
What you have done by claiming it was "people on this board" is try to claim it was more than one person.
Was there an exception to the rule? Possibly so. I don't remember the exact wording but if you aren't 100% accurate, you're pretty damned close. But that isn't "people". It isn't something you can blame on "libtards".
I'm more than willing to hold conversations. But when you come on here with guns blazing making false generalizations, there's nothing to base a conversation on.
Dear pinball wizard, it is more than one person on this forum. The left on this forum have normalized violence for a very long time and made excuses for it on a daily basis. I think your guilty conscience must be getting the best of you.
The libtard left as a whole has done this daily everywhere on the internet and in the media.
Yall are too stupid to know you're getting played by the media. They want their ratings so they are only too happy to cater to the violence and glamourize it. So then your dumb asses turn around and continue with it.
It's a symbiotic relationship.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:38 PM
Oh stop crying about the past as if this equatable. There was an attempted coup and these terrorists are going to fry for it. The media isn’t making up this stuff we all saw it.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Jester
George Floyd was killed May 25th.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd
Your people stormed the Michigan Capital building while armed on April 30th
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496514
So by your logic the these people are the ones who are responsible.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd
Your people stormed the Michigan Capital building while armed on April 30th
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496514
So by your logic the these people are the ones who are responsible.
If you think the normalizing of violence by the left started with George Floyd then you are sadly mistaken.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:40 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Were any of the protesters armed? This is the first I've heard.
Contee said arrests were ongoing but as of 9:30 p.m. at least 52 people had been taken into custody, four for carrying weapons without a license, one for carrying a prohibited weapon and 47 for curfew violations and unlawful entry, including 26 who were apprehended on Capitol grounds.
Police also recovered two pipe bombs, one from the Democratic National Committee headquarters and one from the Republican National Committee headquarters, as well as a cooler in a vehicle on Capitol grounds that contained molotov cocktails, he said.
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/01/.../7641609995911/
There are numerous other articles with similar information. I used this snippet because it had all the information concisely in one place.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:41 PM
I don't remember any of you lefties getting this hysterical when the peaceful protesters were burning our cities sneaking up and shooting cops robbing and looting small businesses and calling to defund the police. Now all these candy ass liberal mayors and governors are calling for police all over the country to come help them.
Liberals Pfft.
Liberals Pfft.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty
I don't remember any of you lefties getting this hysterical when the peaceful protesters were burning our cities sneaking up and shooting cops robbing and looting small businesses and calling to defund the police. Now all these candy ass liberal mayors and governors are calling for police all over the country to come help them.
Liberals Pfft.
Liberals Pfft.
Here comes the trump loyalists white washing trump skid marks again.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:44 PM
When you start referring to one poster as "the Left" - you have turned a corner. Go back to Qanon, your friends miss you.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:45 PM
We're not the ones being played into the conspiracy theories here. It's the media that espouses wide spread voter fraud, QAnon conspiracies and all the crazy crap that that caused what happened yesterday. If that's the media you are speaking of, you are certainly correct.
You're name calling is getting old and tiresome. Either converse like an adult or go back to your cave. As usual, you bring zero evidence to your claims.
Either provide evidence that "the left has normalized violence for a very long time" or continue your Trump imitation of "trust me". Now if you're talking about the far left fringe of our society you may have a point. But if that's what you're doing, you have suddenly changed the context from "this board" to "society as a whole.
And once again, there are many groups on the fringe of the far right and far right wing media that do the same thing. So you can stop acting as though this is a problem that only works in one direction.
It is funny to watch you shift what you're saying now because you were called out on your lie about "people on this board" though.
Have another glass of wine. It will only get better from there.
You're name calling is getting old and tiresome. Either converse like an adult or go back to your cave. As usual, you bring zero evidence to your claims.
Either provide evidence that "the left has normalized violence for a very long time" or continue your Trump imitation of "trust me". Now if you're talking about the far left fringe of our society you may have a point. But if that's what you're doing, you have suddenly changed the context from "this board" to "society as a whole.
And once again, there are many groups on the fringe of the far right and far right wing media that do the same thing. So you can stop acting as though this is a problem that only works in one direction.
It is funny to watch you shift what you're saying now because you were called out on your lie about "people on this board" though.
Have another glass of wine. It will only get better from there.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:47 PM
Congress “Trump to be impeached....again .....if Pence or the cabinet doesn’t invoke the 25th”
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:48 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty
I don't remember any of you lefties getting this hysterical when the peaceful protesters were burning our cities sneaking up and shooting cops robbing and looting small businesses and calling to defund the police. Now all these candy ass liberal mayors and governors are calling for police all over the country to come help them.
Liberals Pfft.
Liberals Pfft.
It's obvious you, along with many like you weren't paying attention. Biden called out against the violence since May. You obviously don't watch those channels. #president46
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:49 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
We're not the ones being played into the conspiracy theories here. It's the media that espouses wide spread voter fraud, QAnon conspiracies and all the crazy crap that that caused what happened yesterday. If that's the media you are speaking of, you are certainly correct.
You're name calling is getting old and tiresome. Either converse like an adult or go back to your cave. As usual, you bring zero evidence to your claims.
Either provide evidence that "the left has normalized violence for a very long time" or continue your Trump imitation of "trust me". Now if you're talking about the far left fringe of our society you may have a point. But if that's what you're doing, you have suddenly changed the context from "this board" to "society as a whole.
And once again, there are many groups on the fringe of the far right and far right wing media that do the same thing. So you can stop acting as though this is a problem that only works in one direction.
It is funny to watch you shift what you're saying now because you were called out on your lie about "people on this board" though.
Have another glass of wine. It will only get better from there.
You're name calling is getting old and tiresome. Either converse like an adult or go back to your cave. As usual, you bring zero evidence to your claims.
Either provide evidence that "the left has normalized violence for a very long time" or continue your Trump imitation of "trust me". Now if you're talking about the far left fringe of our society you may have a point. But if that's what you're doing, you have suddenly changed the context from "this board" to "society as a whole.
And once again, there are many groups on the fringe of the far right and far right wing media that do the same thing. So you can stop acting as though this is a problem that only works in one direction.
It is funny to watch you shift what you're saying now because you were called out on your lie about "people on this board" though.
Have another glass of wine. It will only get better from there.
I'm not going to stop speaking the truth just because you're tired of it and can't handle it.
This topic of discussion is about who should be held accountable. Clearly it's the left, along with their buddies, the media.
You all are crying some giant snowflake tears about some right fringe protests. And forgot how yesterday you were cheering on arson, looting, murder, taking over cities, vandalism, and defunding the police.
You reap what you sow dude.
Imagine the heads exploding if the right does what the left has done.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:54 PM
Yeah, it was the left that told them "trial by combat". Then it was the left who sent them there. You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass.
You no longer have the right to talk about personal responsibility. You've sold the values you claim to stand for down the river when you start blaming someone else for the actions of others.
You sound like some kid talking to his parents when he got caught shoplifting... "But Johnny was shoplifting so it's J's fault. If he hadn't shoplifted, I wouldn't have either."
When the left tries to invoke a coup pf the federal government, let me know.
You no longer have the right to talk about personal responsibility. You've sold the values you claim to stand for down the river when you start blaming someone else for the actions of others.
You sound like some kid talking to his parents when he got caught shoplifting... "But Johnny was shoplifting so it's J's fault. If he hadn't shoplifted, I wouldn't have either."
When the left tries to invoke a coup pf the federal government, let me know.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:56 PM
You’re clearly a trump apologist by distracting from known right wing terrorists who where attempting a coup to overthrow our govt. and occupying the US capitol. Be gone troll.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 07:59 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Yeah, it was the left that told them "trial by combat". Then it was the left who sent them there. You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass.
You no longer have the right to talk about personal responsibility. You've sold the values you claim to stand for down the river when you start blaming someone else for the actions of others.
You sound like some kid talking to his parents when he got caught shoplifting... "But Johnny was shoplifting so it's J's fault. If he hadn't shoplifted, I wouldn't have either."
When the left tries to invoke a coup pf the federal government, let me know.
You no longer have the right to talk about personal responsibility. You've sold the values you claim to stand for down the river when you start blaming someone else for the actions of others.
You sound like some kid talking to his parents when he got caught shoplifting... "But Johnny was shoplifting so it's J's fault. If he hadn't shoplifted, I wouldn't have either."
When the left tries to invoke a coup pf the federal government, let me know.
You can't handle the truth. You're hiding from your role in it. You reap what you sow.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:00 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
You’re clearly a trump apologist by distracting from known right wing terrorists who where attempting a coup to overthrow our govt. and occupying the US capitol. Be gone troll.
Another one who can't handle the truth.
What's the matter? You started a thread and can't handle the truth pie shoved in your face.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:00 PM
But isn't that the same thing as racial equality?
It seems it won't sink into their brains that sedition carries up to 25 years in prison and carries up to a 25 year prison sentence for a reason.
It seems it won't sink into their brains that sedition carries up to 25 years in prison and carries up to a 25 year prison sentence for a reason.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:02 PM
The truth is people committed sedition against The United states government and you can't seem to comprehend just how serious that is and all you got is, "Yeah, but those on the left committed violence so we can too."
That's what a 12 year old would say.
That's what a 12 year old would say.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:04 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
The truth is people committed sedition against The United states government and you can't seem to comprehend just how serious that is and all you got is, "Yeah, but those on the left committed violence so we can too."
That's what a 12 year old would say.
That's what a 12 year old would say.
Dear pinball wizard, the truth went over your head.
"I support violence 100% of the time, when it's for a cause I like. Nobody else has a right to protest.". -Pitdawg
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:04 PM
I am convinced someone has hacked your account
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:06 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
I am convinced someone has hacked your account
Lol, no I'm just sitting here bored, while I wait for my man to finish his work. We are taking his puppy to a bar later for some socialization with the public.
You all are lucky. Most of the time I'm too busy to respond to this nonsense.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:11 PM
Yet I called for anyone and everyone involved in criminal acts during the protests to be arrested and convicted. So all you're doing now is lying again. It's become quite a habit of yours. That's the exact same thing I'm calling for towards those involved yesterday.
You by contrast are using the excuse that since the left used violence, it's perfectly acceptable the far right try to overturn our government.
You use lies and try to blame others for the acts of those who belong to your own political party. I call for justice to be done on anyone from both sides who committed crimes.
How far you have fallen.....
You by contrast are using the excuse that since the left used violence, it's perfectly acceptable the far right try to overturn our government.
You use lies and try to blame others for the acts of those who belong to your own political party. I call for justice to be done on anyone from both sides who committed crimes.
How far you have fallen.....
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:13 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
You all are lucky. Most of the time I'm too busy to post this nonsense.
There, I fixed it for you.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:14 PM
Your truth is .....the libtards are responsible for an attempted a coup on the US govt by normalizing violence?
“Yes”
Awkward silence.
Loud laughter breaks out. Then Everyone turns black to their drinks and chugs a big one down.
“Yes”
Awkward silence.
Loud laughter breaks out. Then Everyone turns black to their drinks and chugs a big one down.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:14 PM
Please post receipts of you condemning violence on the left.
I'm sure if I cared enough I could go find a bunch of posts of you justifying violence.
I'm sure if I cared enough I could go find a bunch of posts of you justifying violence.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:18 PM
Barr says Trump's conduct is a 'betrayal' of the presidency
The Associated Press
Thu, January 7, 2021, 11:00 AM EST
Former Attorney General William Barr says President Donald Trump’s conduct as a violent mob of his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol was a “betrayal of his office and supporters.”
Barr said Thursday that “orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable” in a statement obtained by NBC News. The Associated Press was the first to report Barr's remarks.
Barr was one of Trump’s most loyal and ardent defenders in the Cabinet.
His comments come a day after angry and armed protesters broke into the U.S. Capitol, forcing Congress members to halt the ongoing vote to certify President-elect Joe Biden’s election and then flee from the House and Senate chambers.
Barr resigned last month amid lingering tension over the president’s baseless claims of election fraud and the investigation into Biden’s son.
Barr said there was no widespread fraud in the election, defying Trump, who has made baseless claims the basis of a failed legal bid to overturn the results and stay in power.
His resignation was "on his own accord" and "wasn't pushed out or forced to resign," a White House official said at the time. Trump tweeted of his departure, "Our relationship has been a very good one, he has done an outstanding job! As per letter, Bill will be leaving just before Christmas to spend the holidays with his family."
https://news.yahoo.com/barr-says-trumps-conduct-betrayal-160047346.html
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:20 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Your truth is .....the libtards are responsible for an attempted a coup on the US govt by normalizing violence?
“Yes”
Awkward silence.
Loud laughter breaks out. Then Everyone turns black to their drinks and chugs a big one down.
“Yes”
Awkward silence.
Loud laughter breaks out. Then Everyone turns black to their drinks and chugs a big one down.
Like I said, you can't handle the truth. It wasn't even a coup. You are exaggerating things like usual.
If it was an actual coup they would have went in there with weapons and violence would have been intentional. Not some half baked protest.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:22 PM
Barr is as responsible for this situation as trump and should be held accountable as well.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:26 PM
So you want me to disprove the accusations you made? Rudy, is that you?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:27 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Your truth is .....the libtards are responsible for an attempted a coup on the US govt by normalizing violence?
“Yes”
Awkward silence.
Loud laughter breaks out. Then Everyone turns black to their drinks and chugs a big one down.
“Yes”
Awkward silence.
Loud laughter breaks out. Then Everyone turns black to their drinks and chugs a big one down.
Like I said, you can't handle the truth. It wasn't even a coup. You are exaggerating things like usual.
If it was an actual coup they would have went in there with weapons and violence would have been intentional. Not some half baked protest.
Umm ...pipe bombs were found and other weapons including chemical spray tazers were found on your proud boys during the coup. People died. Cops where seriously hurt. You can’t handle the truth.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:31 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
I honestly don't know how else I can relate the central issue to you.
The issue is that this is 100% on trump and his supporters. They attacked the capitol and they need to be held accountable. Your central issue is distracting this thread. from the present issue of holding these terrorists responsible for their actions.
As I said earlier, I think the purpose of this thread has been answered, and I think most people employing sound, rational thought are on board with the culpability of Trump. Hell, even Barr is now, apparently.
The central issue I am bringing up, should perhaps be in another thread, but I am frustrated that it does not appear to be resonating more.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:36 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Your truth is .....the libtards are responsible for an attempted a coup on the US govt by normalizing violence?
“Yes”
Awkward silence.
Loud laughter breaks out. Then Everyone turns black to their drinks and chugs a big one down.
“Yes”
Awkward silence.
Loud laughter breaks out. Then Everyone turns black to their drinks and chugs a big one down.
Like I said, you can't handle the truth. It wasn't even a coup. You are exaggerating things like usual.
If it was an actual coup they would have went in there with weapons and violence would have been intentional. Not some half baked protest.
Umm ...pipe bombs were found and other weapons including chemical spray tazers were found on your proud boys during the coup. People died. Cops where seriously hurt. You can’t handle the truth.
Did any bombs go off? Did they use violence to take over the Capital? Other than breaking windows and running amok? Were they shooting at police? We they shooting at innocent bystanders? Did they make demands? Were they trying to overthrow the government?
None of that happened as far as I know?
Here is the definition of a coup:
coup
/ko͞o/
Learn to pronounce
Filter definitions by topic
See definitions in:
All
Bridge
Amerindian
Pathology
noun
1.
a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
"he was overthrown in an army coup"
So what seizure of power happened? It looked like a bunch of idiots running amok in the capital building. At what point was power seized?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:42 PM
Talk about being mislead and swallowing the hook.
Eve needs a wake up call on how to distinguish truth from lies.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:43 PM
Lol. Ok ..What part of “attempted coup” did you miss during snorts?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:43 PM
My opinions are based in reality. Not tainted with extremism like the libtard left.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:45 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Lol. Ok ..What part of “attempted coup” did you miss during snorts?
It's not attempted anything. If they were actually trying to take over the government it wouldn't have happened that way.
But sure, walk it back.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:46 PM
18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:46 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Lol. Ok ..What part of “attempted coup” did you miss during snorts?
It certainly ignores the law.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:48 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Lol. Ok ..What part of “attempted coup” did you miss during snorts?
It certainly ignores the law.
Right. So does arson, looting, vandalism, murder, taking control of parts of cities.
Those protestors weren't punished much and neither will these because they are protesters. Not people trying to overthrow the government.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:48 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Lol. Ok ..What part of “attempted coup” did you miss during snorts?
It's not attempted anything. If they were actually trying to take over the government it wouldn't have happened that way.
But sure, walk it back.
Terrorist broke into the capitol and demanded that trump be President. They failed. Attempted coup. Give it up. You’re pitifully in denial. They are going to fry as terrorists.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:49 PM
You are correct. That's why I've always stood against both rather than picking a side or blaming someone else for the wrong doing of either side.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:50 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Lol. Ok ..What part of “attempted coup” did you miss during snorts?
It's not attempted anything. If they were actually trying to take over the government it wouldn't have happened that way.
But sure, walk it back.
Terrorist broke into the capitol and demanded that trump be President. They failed. Attempted coup. Give it up. You’re pitifully in denial. They are going to fry as terrorists.
What kind of drugs are you on?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:54 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
You are correct. That's why I've always stood against both rather than picking a side or blaming someone else for the wrong doing of either side.
Ditto. Not sure who these libtards are exactly, but I'm not one of them either.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:55 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Lol. Ok ..What part of “attempted coup” did you miss during snorts?
It's not attempted anything. If they were actually trying to take over the government it wouldn't have happened that way.
But sure, walk it back.
Terrorist broke into the capitol and demanded that trump be President. They failed. Attempted coup. Give it up. You’re pitifully in denial. They are going to fry as terrorists.
What kind of drugs are you on?
Lol they’re called treason busters. Want some?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:56 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Lol. Ok ..What part of “attempted coup” did you miss during snorts?
It's not attempted anything. If they were actually trying to take over the government it wouldn't have happened that way.
But sure, walk it back.
Terrorist broke into the capitol and demanded that trump be President. They failed. Attempted coup. Give it up. You’re pitifully in denial. They are going to fry as terrorists.
What kind of drugs are you on?
Lol they’re called treason busters. Want some?
No, not really.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 08:57 PM
.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:03 PM
I would like to interject one small thing... would y'all just please shut up with the partisan crap today. Please. Thank you.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:04 PM
40 percent on Trump, and 60 percent on the idiots that caused the trouble yesterday. There is no excuse for what they did.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:06 PM
I don't believe the legal definition of treason was met. I do however believe that insurrection and sedition was committed and laid out the definition of both.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:12 PM
you are correct,now what is to be done?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:23 PM
I heard on the radio today that 68 people had been arrested so far.(this was at about noon).
Also read an article sometime this morning that charges of sedition could be forthcoming - I believe max term is 20 years in prison.
I say "good".
I have many other thoughts/questions/theories on much more about this incident, and similar ones from this summer. I won't go into them.
Also read an article sometime this morning that charges of sedition could be forthcoming - I believe max term is 20 years in prison.
I say "good".
I have many other thoughts/questions/theories on much more about this incident, and similar ones from this summer. I won't go into them.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:25 PM
Reality was right in front of your face.
Honestly, I have no idea what you are in denial about.
The facts can not be more clear.
Roll the tape.
Listen to the words trump on tape.
Extremism is what took place. How is that not clear?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:29 PM
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
40 percent on Trump, and 60 percent on the idiots that caused the trouble yesterday. There is no excuse for what they did.
I think Ezra Klein (who had an amazing article today that everybody should read) summed up my issue with this stance very clearly, so I'll just repost these tweets. It is worth clicking and reading the whole thread:
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:32 PM
That's a complicated question. If in fact all involved are not held to the fire, it will be an open door for such things to repeat themselves. So at first glance it would indicate all involved should be held to the law.
And when it comes to those who actually stormed the Capital building I can think of no other path to travel.
When it comes to the politicians involved who lit the match and fueled this fire over the past five years, it becomes a little more complicated for me. My gut reaction is to make them pay the same cost as those who actually stormed the capital. For without them none of this would have happened.
Yet at the same time I understand that this may fan the flames even higher. So my only conclusion at the moment is to allow those with the power and knowledge to take the steps they see as what the law demands. Biden announced that Merrick Garland will be the head of the DOJ. I don't believe that Biden should ask him about any plans to investigate the politicians involved. I don't think Biden should give him any advice or opinion on the matter either. The DOJ works for the people and justice, not for a president or political party.
If state and federal investigations, charges or trials result from this, then I would say that I would support that. If none of those things happen I can understand that.
As I said, I consider this a very complicated issue. With everything that happened yesterday I can't say that I've processed it all enough to give you a definitive answer at this time.
And when it comes to those who actually stormed the Capital building I can think of no other path to travel.
When it comes to the politicians involved who lit the match and fueled this fire over the past five years, it becomes a little more complicated for me. My gut reaction is to make them pay the same cost as those who actually stormed the capital. For without them none of this would have happened.
Yet at the same time I understand that this may fan the flames even higher. So my only conclusion at the moment is to allow those with the power and knowledge to take the steps they see as what the law demands. Biden announced that Merrick Garland will be the head of the DOJ. I don't believe that Biden should ask him about any plans to investigate the politicians involved. I don't think Biden should give him any advice or opinion on the matter either. The DOJ works for the people and justice, not for a president or political party.
If state and federal investigations, charges or trials result from this, then I would say that I would support that. If none of those things happen I can understand that.
As I said, I consider this a very complicated issue. With everything that happened yesterday I can't say that I've processed it all enough to give you a definitive answer at this time.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:33 PM
Trump, Rudy, and Jr. all roused up that crowd. They should be first to be charged. Then each and every one of the people that breached the capitol building should be hunted down and charged. In an ideal world this is what should happen, but I would settle for the immediate removal of Trump for now. Then we need to figure out how to reach the indoctrinated Trump followers without causing more damage, undo the programming somehow, and restore their faith in America.
OR we can continue to escalate the situation and divides, then eventually fight another civil war on every street in America. I think the correct choice is obvious.
OR we can continue to escalate the situation and divides, then eventually fight another civil war on every street in America. I think the correct choice is obvious.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:35 PM
As with the riots this summer, many arrests came after they occurred. In this day and age, with the faces of people all over social media and people simply knowing who they are, it makes it much easier to find and arrest them after the fact.
I expect many more arrests in the coming days.
I expect many more arrests in the coming days.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:36 PM
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
40 percent on Trump, and 60 percent on the idiots that caused the trouble yesterday. There is no excuse for what they did.
Yep...100% on trump and his supporters. If you’re still a trump supporter you can’t possibly be considered a patriot. You are a tyrant.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 09:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Jester
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Were any of the protesters armed? This is the first I've heard.
Contee said arrests were ongoing but as of 9:30 p.m. at least 52 people had been taken into custody, four for carrying weapons without a license, one for carrying a prohibited weapon and 47 for curfew violations and unlawful entry, including 26 who were apprehended on Capitol grounds.
Police also recovered two pipe bombs, one from the Democratic National Committee headquarters and one from the Republican National Committee headquarters, as well as a cooler in a vehicle on Capitol grounds that contained molotov cocktails, he said.
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/01/.../7641609995911/
There are numerous other articles with similar information. I used this snippet because it had all the information concisely in one place.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:04 PM
I just wonder how many of you genius lefties still want to defund the po lice? I didn't see Pelosi and AOC refusing police protection. I don't know if Liberals are idiots or just hypocrites,
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:14 PM
Why I Am Resigning After Stabbing 97 People for Donald Trump
Today I stand up and say: No more. I hereby resign my position as deputy assistant undersecretary for stabbing.
https://theintercept.com/2021/01/07/trump-administration-resignations/
FOR THE PAST four years, I have held a job with the Trump administration in which I constantly stabbed people. In total, I stabbed 97 individuals, in the face, chest, groin, and nose.
Today I stand up and say: No more. I hereby resign my position as deputy assistant undersecretary for stabbing.
The reason for my decision is simple.
I come from a family that believes in public service. Our Founding Fathers knew that it was necessary and, in fact, vital for the U.S. government to stab people. The only argument is how much. For myself, I am proud of each and every one of my 97 stabs. And I was correct to appear on Fox News dozens of times, where I repeatedly shrieked, “Let’s start stabbing!” I also used my TikTok account to promote the sales of Trump 2020 T-shirts with a picture of a bloody knife and the words “stab stab stab stab stab stab.”
Unfortunately, Wednesday’s mass stabbing by supporters of Donald Trump indicates that there is now a little too much stabbing in our society — from all sides. It is time for sensible moderates like myself to rein in the understandable passions of our fellow Republicans.
I realize this may frustrate my compatriots. We know the left will stab us all given the chance, as when Adlai Stevenson gestured toward Joseph McCarthy with a ballpoint pen in 1951. But we are the side of the aisle that has always opposed excessive stabbing. We must rise above, even if our actions are not reciprocated. Only then can all Americans live together in harmony — stabbers and stabbees alike.
It is in this spirit that I congratulate my fellow patriots who have also recently resigned from the administration. There is Elaine Chao, secretary of transportation; Mick Mulvaney, former White House chief of staff and, more recently, special envoy to Northern Ireland; Matt Pottinger, deputy national security adviser; Tyler Goodspeed, acting chair of the Council of Economic Advisers; and quite a few other people who you also have never heard of.
We realize some will call us the moral heroes of our age. Are we? That is not for us to say. All we can do is speculate about whether we are, in the WhatsApp group chat we just started.
Of course, some will ask why we didn’t resign long ago, or indeed why we agreed to serve in this administration in the first place. They will point to the president’s numerous tweets during the 2016 campaign in which he pledged to “triple stab” every U.S. citizen in alphabetical order. Then this past week, he lit on fire a giant moat of oil on the South Lawn of the White House, which spelled out “STAB” and can apparently be seen from the moon.
This criticism is a dangerous tack to take, one that strikes at the very foundations of our system of self-government. First of all, remember that President Trump never stabbed us. It’s all too easy for people who’ve been stabbed to self-righteously judge people who haven’t.
Second, we love power. Imagine how much you love your children, and then multiply it by a thousand. That’s how much we love being in charge. Remember that these jobs are not just about titles. We also get to impress everyone at our 25th high school reunion — especially Rita, who said no when we asked her to prom and now is married to some guy who owns a Toyota dealership. Then there’s the ID card you get, which has a little hologram of the Constitution.
Third, we also love money. Jobs like ours are always stepping stones to lucrative careers in the private sector. I personally hoped to do public relations for the NFL, where I’d be paid $800,000 a year to cover up how all the players are suffering from chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Now these dreams are as ashes in our mouths.
Where do we go from here? We are currently in discussions with Republican senators who planned to object to the results of the presidential election results — including Georgia’s defeated Kelly Loeffler, James Lankford of Oklahoma, Steve Daines of Montana, and Indiana’s Mike Braun — until they realized that constant, shameless lying could lead to them personally being stabbed. Together we hope to establish a new organization, Republican Patriots for the Correct Amount of Stabbing.
For now, though, all we can do is take comfort in our moral posturing. At the very least, we can look our sons and daughters in the face and tell them: “We did the right thing, at the very last moment, when it made no difference whatsoever.” And in the final analysis, we know our nation is bound together, as Lincoln said, by “the mystic chords of stabbing.” We have done our part and are content to leave judgments to history — starting with the history in the self-serving books we’re about to write.
Today I stand up and say: No more. I hereby resign my position as deputy assistant undersecretary for stabbing.
https://theintercept.com/2021/01/07/trump-administration-resignations/
Quote:
FOR THE PAST four years, I have held a job with the Trump administration in which I constantly stabbed people. In total, I stabbed 97 individuals, in the face, chest, groin, and nose.
Today I stand up and say: No more. I hereby resign my position as deputy assistant undersecretary for stabbing.
The reason for my decision is simple.
I come from a family that believes in public service. Our Founding Fathers knew that it was necessary and, in fact, vital for the U.S. government to stab people. The only argument is how much. For myself, I am proud of each and every one of my 97 stabs. And I was correct to appear on Fox News dozens of times, where I repeatedly shrieked, “Let’s start stabbing!” I also used my TikTok account to promote the sales of Trump 2020 T-shirts with a picture of a bloody knife and the words “stab stab stab stab stab stab.”
Unfortunately, Wednesday’s mass stabbing by supporters of Donald Trump indicates that there is now a little too much stabbing in our society — from all sides. It is time for sensible moderates like myself to rein in the understandable passions of our fellow Republicans.
I realize this may frustrate my compatriots. We know the left will stab us all given the chance, as when Adlai Stevenson gestured toward Joseph McCarthy with a ballpoint pen in 1951. But we are the side of the aisle that has always opposed excessive stabbing. We must rise above, even if our actions are not reciprocated. Only then can all Americans live together in harmony — stabbers and stabbees alike.
It is in this spirit that I congratulate my fellow patriots who have also recently resigned from the administration. There is Elaine Chao, secretary of transportation; Mick Mulvaney, former White House chief of staff and, more recently, special envoy to Northern Ireland; Matt Pottinger, deputy national security adviser; Tyler Goodspeed, acting chair of the Council of Economic Advisers; and quite a few other people who you also have never heard of.
We realize some will call us the moral heroes of our age. Are we? That is not for us to say. All we can do is speculate about whether we are, in the WhatsApp group chat we just started.
Of course, some will ask why we didn’t resign long ago, or indeed why we agreed to serve in this administration in the first place. They will point to the president’s numerous tweets during the 2016 campaign in which he pledged to “triple stab” every U.S. citizen in alphabetical order. Then this past week, he lit on fire a giant moat of oil on the South Lawn of the White House, which spelled out “STAB” and can apparently be seen from the moon.
This criticism is a dangerous tack to take, one that strikes at the very foundations of our system of self-government. First of all, remember that President Trump never stabbed us. It’s all too easy for people who’ve been stabbed to self-righteously judge people who haven’t.
Second, we love power. Imagine how much you love your children, and then multiply it by a thousand. That’s how much we love being in charge. Remember that these jobs are not just about titles. We also get to impress everyone at our 25th high school reunion — especially Rita, who said no when we asked her to prom and now is married to some guy who owns a Toyota dealership. Then there’s the ID card you get, which has a little hologram of the Constitution.
Third, we also love money. Jobs like ours are always stepping stones to lucrative careers in the private sector. I personally hoped to do public relations for the NFL, where I’d be paid $800,000 a year to cover up how all the players are suffering from chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Now these dreams are as ashes in our mouths.
Where do we go from here? We are currently in discussions with Republican senators who planned to object to the results of the presidential election results — including Georgia’s defeated Kelly Loeffler, James Lankford of Oklahoma, Steve Daines of Montana, and Indiana’s Mike Braun — until they realized that constant, shameless lying could lead to them personally being stabbed. Together we hope to establish a new organization, Republican Patriots for the Correct Amount of Stabbing.
For now, though, all we can do is take comfort in our moral posturing. At the very least, we can look our sons and daughters in the face and tell them: “We did the right thing, at the very last moment, when it made no difference whatsoever.” And in the final analysis, we know our nation is bound together, as Lincoln said, by “the mystic chords of stabbing.” We have done our part and are content to leave judgments to history — starting with the history in the self-serving books we’re about to write.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:16 PM
And....Is there any doubt trump is a racist?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:18 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Trump, Rudy, and Jr. all roused up that crowd. They should be first to be charged. Then each and every one of the people that breached the capitol building should be hunted down and charged. In an ideal world this is what should happen, but I would settle for the immediate removal of Trump for now. Then we need to figure out how to reach the indoctrinated Trump followers without causing more damage, undo the programming somehow, and restore their faith in America.
OR we can continue to escalate the situation and divides, then eventually fight another civil war on every street in America. I think the correct choice is obvious.
OR we can continue to escalate the situation and divides, then eventually fight another civil war on every street in America. I think the correct choice is obvious.
This.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty
I just wonder how many of you genius lefties still want to defund the po lice? I didn't see Pelosi and AOC refusing police protection. I don't know if Liberals are idiots or just hypocrites,
Again, this is your contribution to this thread?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:21 PM
Why don't you acknowledge what actually took place?
trump incited followers to assault the capitol.
Armed anarchists destroyed federal property.
They broke into a chamber of government while they were conducting the business of the country.
What does tabloid bs have to do with what took place?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:25 PM
After being told over and over and over again what that actually means, are you telling me you still don't understand it?
You've been shown how much the police already spend on dealing with the mentally ill. So you think taking the money they already spend on dealing with the mentally ill wouldn't be better spent giving that same money to mental healthcare professionals to deal withe the mentally ill?
The left did a horrible job of labeling this but what it actually means isn't that complicated. Police are spending a lot of money on things they aren't equipped to deal with. Like the homeless and mentally ill. If that same money were given to people trained to deal with it, they wouldn't need that money and the people of the city would be better served.
That's what it means. For like the 50th time now.
You've been shown how much the police already spend on dealing with the mentally ill. So you think taking the money they already spend on dealing with the mentally ill wouldn't be better spent giving that same money to mental healthcare professionals to deal withe the mentally ill?
The left did a horrible job of labeling this but what it actually means isn't that complicated. Police are spending a lot of money on things they aren't equipped to deal with. Like the homeless and mentally ill. If that same money were given to people trained to deal with it, they wouldn't need that money and the people of the city would be better served.
That's what it means. For like the 50th time now.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:27 PM
j/c
y'all are entering into a debate with a troll expecting honest and forthright debate?
y'all are entering into a debate with a troll expecting honest and forthright debate?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:27 PM
and what else were they planning.
rudy left a message on a phone yesterday for Tommy Tuberville (senator) AFTER what happened at the capitol -but he left the message on the wrong phone-and the message got released today. What else was going to happen. Really trying to pull off a coup?
Senator Tuberville? Or I should say Coach Tuberville. This is Rudy Giuliani, the president's lawyer. I'm calling you because I want to discuss with you how they're trying to rush this hearing and how we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you. And I know they're reconvening at 8 tonight, but it ... the only strategy we can follow is to object to numerous states and raise issues so that we get ourselves into tomorrow"ideally until the end of tomorrow.
I know McConnell is doing everything he can to rush it, which is kind of a kick in the head because it's one thing to oppose us, it's another thing not to give us a fair opportunity to contest it. And he wants to try to get it down to only three states that we contest. But there are 10 states that we contest, not three. So if you could object to every state and, along with a congressman, get a hearing for every state, I know we would delay you a lot, but it would give us the opportunity to get the legislators who are very, very close to pulling their vote, particularly after what McConnell did today. It angered them, because they have written letters asking that you guys adjourn and send them back the questionable ones and they'll fix them up.
So, this phone number, I'm available on all night, and it would be an honor to talk to you. Thank you.
rudy left a message on a phone yesterday for Tommy Tuberville (senator) AFTER what happened at the capitol -but he left the message on the wrong phone-and the message got released today. What else was going to happen. Really trying to pull off a coup?
Senator Tuberville? Or I should say Coach Tuberville. This is Rudy Giuliani, the president's lawyer. I'm calling you because I want to discuss with you how they're trying to rush this hearing and how we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you. And I know they're reconvening at 8 tonight, but it ... the only strategy we can follow is to object to numerous states and raise issues so that we get ourselves into tomorrow"ideally until the end of tomorrow.
I know McConnell is doing everything he can to rush it, which is kind of a kick in the head because it's one thing to oppose us, it's another thing not to give us a fair opportunity to contest it. And he wants to try to get it down to only three states that we contest. But there are 10 states that we contest, not three. So if you could object to every state and, along with a congressman, get a hearing for every state, I know we would delay you a lot, but it would give us the opportunity to get the legislators who are very, very close to pulling their vote, particularly after what McConnell did today. It angered them, because they have written letters asking that you guys adjourn and send them back the questionable ones and they'll fix them up.
So, this phone number, I'm available on all night, and it would be an honor to talk to you. Thank you.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 10:59 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
I heard on the radio today that 68 people had been arrested so far.(this was at about noon).
Also read an article sometime this morning that charges of sedition could be forthcoming - I believe max term is 20 years in prison.
I say "good".
I have many other thoughts/questions/theories on much more about this incident, and similar ones from this summer. I won't go into them.
Also read an article sometime this morning that charges of sedition could be forthcoming - I believe max term is 20 years in prison.
I say "good".
I have many other thoughts/questions/theories on much more about this incident, and similar ones from this summer. I won't go into them.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 11:01 PM
Rudy has become a caricature.
His relevancy is over.
In due time as all that has happened will be exposed.
Actions will be taken. Rudy could well be a part of legal actions.
His relevancy is over.
In due time as all that has happened will be exposed.
Actions will be taken. Rudy could well be a part of legal actions.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 11:49 PM
Quote:
After being told over and over and over again what that actually means, are you telling me you still don't understand it?
For years, he's needed a clue...
... wrapped around a brick.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/07/21 11:56 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:05 AM
Tragic that anyone died.
Justice must be served for those accountable.
It begins with the leader of the pack.
Then tracking down all the others from tape.
The leader of the mob is the current president. It his him with blood on his hands. He is the smoking gun.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:15 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:28 AM
That was by far the most presidential speech he’s ever given. It only took him 3 years and 352 days.
Bye don.
Bye don.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:28 AM
I think a certain segment of society wants a person who exhibits very strong and confident leadership. Unfortunately, those people often come in a package of an arrogant and narcissistic person. Trump is that, and then some. It’s also dangerous.
His supporters will actually overlook anything he does, and excuse it, because he tells them he’s fighting for them. The rationalizations are bizarre at this point.
Real leaders do not divide, they unite. They inspire. They do not, ever, incite violence against their own people for political gain.
Please let these two weeks pass quickly, and let people actually look into their hearts and decide what kind of country they want to live in going forward.
His supporters will actually overlook anything he does, and excuse it, because he tells them he’s fighting for them. The rationalizations are bizarre at this point.
Real leaders do not divide, they unite. They inspire. They do not, ever, incite violence against their own people for political gain.
Please let these two weeks pass quickly, and let people actually look into their hearts and decide what kind of country they want to live in going forward.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:31 AM
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
That was by far the most presidential speech he’s ever given. It only took him 3 years and 352 days.
Bye don.
Bye don.
He lied within 16 seconds ... is that what you mean?
There was no "immediate" deployment ... and the reports I read after the NG were deployed, was that it was PENCE that deployed them.
Fake. Fake. Fake. You can tell it's fake coz his lips are moving.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:39 AM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
That was by far the most presidential speech he’s ever given. It only took him 3 years and 352 days.
Bye don.
Bye don.
He lied within 16 seconds ... is that what you mean?
There was no "immediate" deployment ... and the reports I read after the NG were deployed, was that it was PENCE that deployed them.
Fake. Fake. Fake. You can tell it's fake coz his lips are moving.
I’m just saying, in the grand scheme, it was pretty average. He started out with a lie but he didn’t call himself the greatest president, or call the media fake, or make fun of a physically disabled person... these are wins for this ghoul... er... soon to be ex president.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:49 AM
Now that he is going out he wants unity? We dont need to hear it from him he doesnt know what it means. Biden will provide the unity and doesnt need trump to tell him to do something trump is incapable of. He read that speech, he didnt write it and he doesnt believe most of it for a second. He said what they told him to say. The real trump spoke his thoughts yesterday.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:52 AM
You may have a point.
The counterpoint is now the left wants unity after attacking Trump for over 4 years.
Trump's gone. Let's move on........to unity as 1 side sees it.
The counterpoint is now the left wants unity after attacking Trump for over 4 years.
Trump's gone. Let's move on........to unity as 1 side sees it.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:34 AM
I'm now seeing at least one report that the Capitol Hill Police Officer is in critical condition -- but has not died.
Hopefully that is true.
Hopefully that is true.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:34 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:38 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:05 AM
Now see- that was a different set of circumstances. Back then, we needed that show of force to be (read: feel) safe. And we were, because those people were peaceful. All the proof you need- no black or brown people attacked Abraham Lincoln's statue that day (how rich is this irony?).
________________
As for yesterday, it wasn't really a coup. You see, it's only a coup if it comes from the coup d'état region of France.
What you saw yesterday was just sparkling white terrorism.
You know- domestic product.
Big differences here.
Let's try to stay up on the complexities of hypocrisy.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:34 AM
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
You see, it's only a coup if it comes from the coup d'état region of France.
Man you out did yourself!
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 05:40 AM
On Far-Right Websites, Plans To Storm Capitol Were Made In Plain Sight
The mob violence that descended on the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday was the culmination of weeks of incendiary rhetoric and increasingly feverish planning – much of which took place openly on websites that cater to far-right conspiracy theorists.
Jared Holt spends a lot of time on those websites. He's a visiting research fellow with the Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab, where he's been focused on extremist online activity.
Since November's election, Holt has seen websites like Parler, Gab, TheDonald, and MeWe fill with torrents of "conspiracy theories, disinformation and outright lies about the results of the election," he says. "And those lies often came from the top arbiters of power in the Republican Party, notably President Donald Trump himself."
The day's events brought unprecedented traffic to some niche sites. The CEO of Gab, Andrew Torba, said that the site's traffic was up 40% on Wednesday.
More than 80% of the top posts on TheDonald on Wednesday about the Electoral College certification featured calls for violence in the top five responses, according to research from Advance Democracy, Inc., an independent, non-partisan organization.
And it wasn't just fringe websites. On Twitter, ADI found more than 1,480 posts from QAnon-related accounts about Jan. 6 that contained terms of violence since Jan. 1. On TikTok, videos promoting violence garnered hundreds of thousands of views.
On sites both fringe and mainstream, plans for violence
Trump's claims have fueled increasingly heated rhetoric since the election, Holt says – spiking in the last couple of weeks as Trump doubled down on conspiracy theories like the false and unfounded notion that a company that makes electronic voting systems had deleted votes for Trump.
"Then it really, really went nuts," Holt says. After Trump promoted a Jan. 6 protest in D.C., "a lot of his extremist supporters interpreted this as a call to action for them."
Holt and his colleagues saw fringe social media sites fill with messages organizing logistics for that date, as well as activation of anti-government extremists like militia groups, conspiracy theorists, and white nationalist activists "on a scale and volume that we haven't seen at any other point during the electoral process this cycle."
As it became clear over the last week that Vice President Pence was not necessarily going to somehow overturn the results of the election, Holt says the discussion on the right-wing extremist sites turned to taking matters into their own hands.
On forum boards like TheDonald and antigovernment and militia movement group chats, those conversations included plans to surround the Capitol on all sides, alongside maps of the U.S. Capitol complex marked with locations of tunnels and entry points. "And there was discussion specifically of overwhelming police with large crowds and doing that in order to violate laws against carrying weapons and against entering federal buildings," Holt says.
There wasn't a specific time or a formal plan, "but the discussions to do exactly what we saw [Wednesday] ... this was an idea that was fomenting and spreading and shared approvingly between users in these extremist communities that we've been watching."
There was also much discussion on such forums about ways to find and attack Black Lives Matter and antifascist protesters, Holt says. But on Wednesday, those groups largely stayed home. That may have shifted Trump supporters' focus to its eventual target, Holt suggests: "Perhaps the lack of a counterprotest to receive the violence that all these supporters were so ready to unleash meant that that energy instead was directed at the federal government."
'Maybe it'll happen — probably not. And then it all happened.'
Holt says that even though he was closely monitoring the conversations happening on fringe right-wing sites, he was still taken aback when the overheated rhetoric turned into violent reality.
"I was surprised," he says. "One of the challenges of doing the line of work that I do is these are extremist communities and the rhetoric is extreme just all the time. It got really, really intense running up to the protest, but oftentimes the ratio of extreme rhetoric to extreme action — there is a little bit of difference there."
But this time, that rhetoric translated into violent action.
Holt says in the preceding days, he had spoken with others about what he was seeing being planned on these extremist sites. "I was like, well, they're talking about doing X, Y, Z. And, you know, maybe it'll happen — probably not. And then it all happened."
So what was different this time — why did the bluster turn into a violent attack?
Holt believes the key factor was the remarks from President Trump and his allies when they addressed the rally on Wednesday.
When Trump told his supporters to head to the Capitol, Holt says, "I think the levee just broke."
"If Trump had not told people to go to the Capitol, I don't know that it would have happened. Because people on the ground were engaged in some pretty extreme rhetoric about coming back with guns if things don't go their way, and stuff like that. But there wasn't any real sort of significant action happening on the ground until Trump finished his speech."
A conspiracy narrative, fomented for years
Whitney Phillips, researches misinformation and disinformation at Syracuse University. On Wednesday, "I saw what I have been expecting to see for the last several months, even several years," she says.
In the march toward the 2020 election, "at every turn Trump and his enablers in Congress and in the media ecosystem were parroting some version of the 'deep state' narrative," she says.
Trump avoided using the term for years while promoting its ideas, laying the groundwork for what is happening now, Phillips says — and when he lost the election, he then used that narrative "as a bludgeon against the American people."
Those who have believed in QAnon or 'deep state' theories have had those ideas reinforced for years by the conspiracy-driven media they consume, as well as elected officials who repeat them.
The result is that now, amid election results contested by Trump, "this is a well-established narrative way of being in the world. It's not even a conspiracy theory — it is an identity," Phillips says.
"So what happened in the Capitol is really the culmination of months and in some cases years of belief in the sort of paradigmatic world in which you have a very clear set of bad guys who are out to get Trump, and you have a very clear set of good guys who are fighting that battle."
A reckoning
In the coming weeks, the niche platforms that have provided safe haven for extremist movements will come under increased scrutiny, Holt predicts. "And these companies, which don't have the same legal defenses or resources or infrastructure that a major site like Facebook or Twitter has, may falter under that pressure. But that remains to be seen."
Holt says Wednesday's events show that the current approach to combating disinformation and extremism online isn't working. That approach is often reactive, rather than proactive.
"Oftentimes, by the time a Facebook or a Twitter cracks down on certain pieces of misinformation, it is far too late to halt its spread," he says. "I think as a society and as a nation, we are beyond the point of overdue for a serious comprehensive examination and discussion about how we're going to fix this problem. Because if we don't, the next time could be worse."
And Phillips says that reckoning must not only concern platform moderation, or only Trump and his enablers – but as rather recognize these events as the culmination of decades-old forces and beliefs.
"What we need to reckon with is not what happened yesterday, but everything that led us to yesterday," she says. "And until we're really willing and able to look back that far and take inventory of what's happened, then we're only ever going to be slapping BandAids on grotesquely broken arms."
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-el...-in-plain-sight
The mob violence that descended on the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday was the culmination of weeks of incendiary rhetoric and increasingly feverish planning – much of which took place openly on websites that cater to far-right conspiracy theorists.
Jared Holt spends a lot of time on those websites. He's a visiting research fellow with the Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab, where he's been focused on extremist online activity.
Since November's election, Holt has seen websites like Parler, Gab, TheDonald, and MeWe fill with torrents of "conspiracy theories, disinformation and outright lies about the results of the election," he says. "And those lies often came from the top arbiters of power in the Republican Party, notably President Donald Trump himself."
The day's events brought unprecedented traffic to some niche sites. The CEO of Gab, Andrew Torba, said that the site's traffic was up 40% on Wednesday.
More than 80% of the top posts on TheDonald on Wednesday about the Electoral College certification featured calls for violence in the top five responses, according to research from Advance Democracy, Inc., an independent, non-partisan organization.
And it wasn't just fringe websites. On Twitter, ADI found more than 1,480 posts from QAnon-related accounts about Jan. 6 that contained terms of violence since Jan. 1. On TikTok, videos promoting violence garnered hundreds of thousands of views.
On sites both fringe and mainstream, plans for violence
Trump's claims have fueled increasingly heated rhetoric since the election, Holt says – spiking in the last couple of weeks as Trump doubled down on conspiracy theories like the false and unfounded notion that a company that makes electronic voting systems had deleted votes for Trump.
"Then it really, really went nuts," Holt says. After Trump promoted a Jan. 6 protest in D.C., "a lot of his extremist supporters interpreted this as a call to action for them."
Holt and his colleagues saw fringe social media sites fill with messages organizing logistics for that date, as well as activation of anti-government extremists like militia groups, conspiracy theorists, and white nationalist activists "on a scale and volume that we haven't seen at any other point during the electoral process this cycle."
As it became clear over the last week that Vice President Pence was not necessarily going to somehow overturn the results of the election, Holt says the discussion on the right-wing extremist sites turned to taking matters into their own hands.
On forum boards like TheDonald and antigovernment and militia movement group chats, those conversations included plans to surround the Capitol on all sides, alongside maps of the U.S. Capitol complex marked with locations of tunnels and entry points. "And there was discussion specifically of overwhelming police with large crowds and doing that in order to violate laws against carrying weapons and against entering federal buildings," Holt says.
There wasn't a specific time or a formal plan, "but the discussions to do exactly what we saw [Wednesday] ... this was an idea that was fomenting and spreading and shared approvingly between users in these extremist communities that we've been watching."
There was also much discussion on such forums about ways to find and attack Black Lives Matter and antifascist protesters, Holt says. But on Wednesday, those groups largely stayed home. That may have shifted Trump supporters' focus to its eventual target, Holt suggests: "Perhaps the lack of a counterprotest to receive the violence that all these supporters were so ready to unleash meant that that energy instead was directed at the federal government."
'Maybe it'll happen — probably not. And then it all happened.'
Holt says that even though he was closely monitoring the conversations happening on fringe right-wing sites, he was still taken aback when the overheated rhetoric turned into violent reality.
"I was surprised," he says. "One of the challenges of doing the line of work that I do is these are extremist communities and the rhetoric is extreme just all the time. It got really, really intense running up to the protest, but oftentimes the ratio of extreme rhetoric to extreme action — there is a little bit of difference there."
But this time, that rhetoric translated into violent action.
Holt says in the preceding days, he had spoken with others about what he was seeing being planned on these extremist sites. "I was like, well, they're talking about doing X, Y, Z. And, you know, maybe it'll happen — probably not. And then it all happened."
So what was different this time — why did the bluster turn into a violent attack?
Holt believes the key factor was the remarks from President Trump and his allies when they addressed the rally on Wednesday.
When Trump told his supporters to head to the Capitol, Holt says, "I think the levee just broke."
"If Trump had not told people to go to the Capitol, I don't know that it would have happened. Because people on the ground were engaged in some pretty extreme rhetoric about coming back with guns if things don't go their way, and stuff like that. But there wasn't any real sort of significant action happening on the ground until Trump finished his speech."
A conspiracy narrative, fomented for years
Whitney Phillips, researches misinformation and disinformation at Syracuse University. On Wednesday, "I saw what I have been expecting to see for the last several months, even several years," she says.
In the march toward the 2020 election, "at every turn Trump and his enablers in Congress and in the media ecosystem were parroting some version of the 'deep state' narrative," she says.
Trump avoided using the term for years while promoting its ideas, laying the groundwork for what is happening now, Phillips says — and when he lost the election, he then used that narrative "as a bludgeon against the American people."
Those who have believed in QAnon or 'deep state' theories have had those ideas reinforced for years by the conspiracy-driven media they consume, as well as elected officials who repeat them.
The result is that now, amid election results contested by Trump, "this is a well-established narrative way of being in the world. It's not even a conspiracy theory — it is an identity," Phillips says.
"So what happened in the Capitol is really the culmination of months and in some cases years of belief in the sort of paradigmatic world in which you have a very clear set of bad guys who are out to get Trump, and you have a very clear set of good guys who are fighting that battle."
A reckoning
In the coming weeks, the niche platforms that have provided safe haven for extremist movements will come under increased scrutiny, Holt predicts. "And these companies, which don't have the same legal defenses or resources or infrastructure that a major site like Facebook or Twitter has, may falter under that pressure. But that remains to be seen."
Holt says Wednesday's events show that the current approach to combating disinformation and extremism online isn't working. That approach is often reactive, rather than proactive.
"Oftentimes, by the time a Facebook or a Twitter cracks down on certain pieces of misinformation, it is far too late to halt its spread," he says. "I think as a society and as a nation, we are beyond the point of overdue for a serious comprehensive examination and discussion about how we're going to fix this problem. Because if we don't, the next time could be worse."
And Phillips says that reckoning must not only concern platform moderation, or only Trump and his enablers – but as rather recognize these events as the culmination of decades-old forces and beliefs.
"What we need to reckon with is not what happened yesterday, but everything that led us to yesterday," she says. "And until we're really willing and able to look back that far and take inventory of what's happened, then we're only ever going to be slapping BandAids on grotesquely broken arms."
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-el...-in-plain-sight
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 11:39 AM
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:01 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
I doubt that.
The problem is the American media. The media doesn't report news anymore. They make news with endless hours of commentary based on their political leaning.
Call this a wake up call.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
I doubt that.
The problem is the American media. The media doesn't report news anymore. They make news with endless hours of commentary based on their political leaning.
Call this a wake up call.
Dude - this isn't both sides.... One side of the media has been reporting facts:
1.) Joe Biden won the election
2.) There was no evidence of widespread voter fraud that could change the election results.
3.) The role of the House and Senate is ceremonial, and they have no right to change election results that were verified and submitted by the states.
4.) Mike Pence cannot unilaterally reject a states election returns.
How do we know this is reasonable? Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence said all of these things on the senate floor.
The other side of the media told people that you could change the election results on 6 January -- and to do so you needed to protest outside the capitol. They whipped their supporters into a frenzy to get donations and news cycles -- and then they got people killed.
GMAB with your "both sides" BS.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:19 PM
Above is a perfect example of what I am talking about and why there is no hope for this country, as it stands.
Carry on
Carry on
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
I doubt that.
The problem is the American media. The media doesn't report news anymore. They make news with endless hours of commentary based on their political leaning.
Call this a wake up call.
The media. Lol ..... Anybody with half a brain can filter out BS media.
but you’re right, this is a wake up call. It’s a wake up call for trump supporters to return to reality and join back with the USA and dump trump your confederate flags and your racism or suffer a miserable life without a country.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:32 PM
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
That was by far the most presidential speech he’s ever given. It only took him 3 years and 352 days.
Bye don.
Bye don.
He lied within 16 seconds ... is that what you mean?
There was no "immediate" deployment ... and the reports I read after the NG were deployed, was that it was PENCE that deployed them.
Fake. Fake. Fake. You can tell it's fake coz his lips are moving.
I’m just saying, in the grand scheme, it was pretty average. He started out with a lie but he didn’t call himself the greatest president, or call the media fake, or make fun of a physically disabled person... these are wins for this ghoul... er... soon to be ex president.
He didn't stroke his own ego once. He didn't peddle his latest divisive conspiracy-du-jour at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the report that it was Pence that deployed the National Guard was rumor/unconfirmed....
The bar is pretty low, but easily and obviously his most presidential speech.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:43 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Trump was a backlash against dyed in the wool corrupt politics and putting a most unlikable, non-trust-worthy candidate in the White House, he just happened to be a terrible model to break the mold. I was a life-long conservative that voted for Obama but would rather have shot myself in the face than vote for Clinton. I voted for Trump (the first time) for the same reasons I voted for Perot, and Paul, and will vote for any candidate in the future than doesn't look like a puppet. I guess the best way to endear me to your politics though, is to simply call me racist.
And you're part of the party that speaks of unity, and everybody "coming together to heal". Kumbaya, my lord.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 12:46 PM
oober is a poster that has repeatedly tried to respond to PS with (somewhat) thought out responses to try to elicit a sane response and further dialogue. It's failed every time, and it's incredibly frustrating every time. And yet, I'll try again in the next thread, probably.
Don't be like oober.
Don't be like oober.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:11 PM
Upon reflection and outside of people dying there is a silver lining in what happened.
It will not happen again. The Capitol will never be left so vulnerable again. This was a massive security failure.
trump will never hold public office again. The toothpaste will not go back into the tube.
He will be shamed. His presidency will be defined by his incompetence and divisiveness. He has been permanently exposed. His life going forward will be no piece of cake.
He will be in the courts. He will have problems. And in the end his name will be remembered as a stain on democracy.
His ego and his primary goal of recognition worship will be severely damaged. He will never be perceived again as anything more than what has been exposed.
I sincerely hope that justice will be served in one way or another.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:24 PM
Exactly...trump and his supporters are without a country now.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Above is a perfect example of what I am talking about and why there is no hope for this country, as it stands.
Carry on
Carry on
I think you need to define the subject and then have the conversation. Are we talking generally and big picture or are we talking the escapades at the Capitol Building.
If the focus is narrow and the Capitol Building everything Luke said specifically about this election, the result and the evidence of the election was all 100% true.
I'm still shocked/sad/angry at what happened at the Capitol - I don't actually want to shift the focus away from what a complete a-hole Trump and Rufy and Gohmert and others are. I don't want to move the conversation away from white 'protesters' beating cops with clubs and taking control of the Capitol Building when anyone that is honest knows that if the same schtick had happened with BLM movement - they either never breach the perimeter or there are lots of dead protesters.
Neither am I willing to deflect the conversation to violence and looting from the summer and pretend there is some equivalency or "they started it" debate to be had. Myself - virtually every single poster - said the people perpetrating violence/crimes should be arrested and stopped. And being angry at decades of racial injustice at the hands of law enforcement does is not an equivalent to Trump lying and manufacturing another division and point of hate for his cult to rally behind. The Stolen Election premise was 100% fake - untrue - false with absolutely zero evidence of any kind to support it. Trump was given legal recourse and lost 60 times. End of story.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:32 PM
Portland / Oober: Yes - it was the most presidential speech Trump has ever given and for the the reasons outlined. I guess the bar was set low - and it still pokes at me that in this speech he still lies 16 seconds into it. Regardless of who deployed the NG it was 100% definitely NOT immediately. We had all been watching and following well over an hour of occupied Capitol Building before there was finally news of the NG being deployed. Just my 2 cents. Personally I think the Trump speech is only a reaction to the world and even his GOP potentially turning on him and ousting him from office.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:33 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
oober is a poster that has repeatedly tried to respond to PS with (somewhat) thought out responses to try to elicit a sane response and further dialogue. It's failed every time, and it's incredibly frustrating every time. And yet, I'll try again in the next thread, probably.
Don't be like oober.
Don't be like oober.
PS is a poster that has repeatedly tried to keep this thread on track. To have discussion on how we hold trump accountable for what he has done to bring us to this point . 5 people dead in a an attempted coup in our capitol building spurred on by trump and celebrated by his deplorable racist supporters. You want to talk about other crap and some sort of deflected base cause to all this, start your own thread.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:42 PM
National guard was trying to get authorization for 2 hours but could not get an answer from the white house. Because trump didnt want his buddies to be interrupted.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 01:57 PM
Digging past the obvious to get to actual root cause = deflection... got it.
I don't think there's a single person on here (outside of maybe ThrowLong) that would argue Trump's hand on the events at the Capital. But in terms of what got us here, Trump's speech an hour before (and Trump, in general) is really just scratching the surface.
I don't think there's a single person on here (outside of maybe ThrowLong) that would argue Trump's hand on the events at the Capital. But in terms of what got us here, Trump's speech an hour before (and Trump, in general) is really just scratching the surface.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:00 PM
4 years of trump and republican rhetoric about election fraud got us here.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:02 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
4 years of trump and republican rhetoric about election fraud got us here.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:08 PM
Trust me my post was made as a tongue in cheek commentary. trump’s speech was obviously written by someone else. He holds none of those thoughts in his pea brain. I was more surprised he was able to stay on the teleprompter and not diverge into an attack on the press or whatnot.
He’s garbage. His speech was far too little far too late. He can’t be gone fast enough.
The next time I hear his voice I hope it’s in a NY courtroom in front of a judge. I couldn’t stand hearing him speak over the past 4 years. Such a smarmy condescending douche. But believe me if he ends up in the courtroom, especially on the stand, I’ll watch and listen to every sniveling sleazy word he says while his life’s grifting gets put up for all to see. Watching him fall into ruin will bring me much joy.
He’s garbage. His speech was far too little far too late. He can’t be gone fast enough.
The next time I hear his voice I hope it’s in a NY courtroom in front of a judge. I couldn’t stand hearing him speak over the past 4 years. Such a smarmy condescending douche. But believe me if he ends up in the courtroom, especially on the stand, I’ll watch and listen to every sniveling sleazy word he says while his life’s grifting gets put up for all to see. Watching him fall into ruin will bring me much joy.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:17 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: BADdog
4 years of trump and republican rhetoric about election fraud got us here.
No trump created what put us over the top. They will still be here. Biden needs to try and unify as best he can and he will.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:20 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: BADdog
4 years of trump and republican rhetoric about election fraud got us here.
No trump created what put us over the top. They will still be here. Biden needs to try and unify as best he can and he will.
Biden is (and has been for almost half a century) part of the status quo. Many people who voted for Trump were voting against this status quo, so how you think Biden will do anything to help in this regard is beyond my understanding.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:21 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: BADdog
4 years of trump and republican rhetoric about election fraud got us here.
No trump created what put us over the top. They will still be here. Biden needs to try and unify as best he can and he will.
Biden is (and has been for almost half a century) part of the status quo. Many people who voted for Trump were voting against this status quo, so how you think Biden will do anything to help in this regard is beyond my understanding.
He wont be trump
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:29 PM
Originally Posted By: FATE
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Trump was a backlash against dyed in the wool corrupt politics and putting a most unlikable, non-trust-worthy candidate in the White House, he just happened to be a terrible model to break the mold. I was a life-long conservative that voted for Obama but would rather have shot myself in the face than vote for Clinton. I voted for Trump (the first time) for the same reasons I voted for Perot, and Paul, and will vote for any candidate in the future than doesn't look like a puppet. I guess the best way to endear me to your politics though, is to simply call me racist.
And you're part of the party that speaks of unity, and everybody "coming together to heal". Kumbaya, my lord.
Thanks for sharing. My speculation was always that people who fit what you just described about yourself constituted the majority of people who voted for Trump in 2016: disenfranchised, conservative-leaning constituents who saw the incumbent government as detached and corrupt, and when they saw Hillary, just (understandably IMO) went "Oh hell no."
I think it's a problem when there are calls for unity on one hand, whereas on the other hand, there is this notion of lumping ~70 million people with being racist.
Just like I've been arguing that Republicans (the ones in power currently) need to clean their act up, I think that Democrats/Liberals need to stop vilifying the entirety of people who voted for Trump.
Or else we're stuck.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:54 PM
I just wonder how many of you genius lefties still want to defund the po lice? I didn't see Pelosi and AOC refusing police protection. I don't know if Liberals are idiots or just hypocrites,
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 02:57 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: FATE
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Trump was a backlash against dyed in the wool corrupt politics and putting a most unlikable, non-trust-worthy candidate in the White House, he just happened to be a terrible model to break the mold. I was a life-long conservative that voted for Obama but would rather have shot myself in the face than vote for Clinton. I voted for Trump (the first time) for the same reasons I voted for Perot, and Paul, and will vote for any candidate in the future than doesn't look like a puppet. I guess the best way to endear me to your politics though, is to simply call me racist.
And you're part of the party that speaks of unity, and everybody "coming together to heal". Kumbaya, my lord.
Thanks for sharing. My speculation was always that people who fit what you just described about yourself constituted the majority of people who voted for Trump in 2016: disenfranchised, conservative-leaning constituents who saw the incumbent government as detached and corrupt, and when they saw Hillary, just (understandably IMO) went "Oh hell no."
I think it's a problem when there are calls for unity on one hand, whereas on the other hand, there is this notion of lumping ~70 million people with being racist.
Just like I've been arguing that Republicans (the ones in power currently) need to clean their act up, I think that Democrats/Liberals need to stop vilifying the entirety of people who voted for Trump.
Or else we're stuck.
A vote for trump is supporting trump and what he stands for. That vote was a backhanded insult on our democracy and decency in the USA. This wasn’t a surprise attack on our country it was a slow coup attempt that’s been in the planning for years. And these devoted trump supporters need to held accountable for what they’ve done to our country. Every last one of them.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:01 PM
OK, that's 74 million people. What's your solution?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:02 PM
Quote:
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Yep and 80+ Million Americans plus another 100+ Million Americans who didn’t vote. Are not racists. That explains more.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:07 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Quote:
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Yep and 80+ Million Americans plus another 100+ Million Americans who didn’t vote. Are not racists. That explains more.
You don't know who is racist and who isn't. Just reading your posts could make me think you could be racist, but I don't know you well enough to know.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:10 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
OK, that's 74 million people. What's your solution?
The solution is to arrest rioting looting and violent trump and his supporters and put them on trial and have them held accountable for what they’ve done. And those 75 million people should follow the rule of law and come back to reality,
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:16 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Quote:
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Yep and 80+ Million Americans plus another 100+ Million Americans who didn’t vote. Are not racists. That explains more.
You don't know who is racist and who isn't. Just reading your posts could make me think you could be racist, but I don't know you well enough to know.
I know trump and a high percentage of his supporters where racists in the past. And now 100% who still support him. You wanna continue to support trump, really? Keep it up.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:16 PM
Wow... you've figured it out. Such an incredibly simple solution. This should be easy, then!
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:16 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Quote:
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Yep and 80+ Million Americans plus another 100+ Million Americans who didn’t vote. Are not racists. That explains more.
I guess we just have to agree to move on.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:24 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Quote:
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Yep and 80+ Million Americans plus another 100+ Million Americans who didn’t vote. Are not racists. That explains more.
I guess we just have to agree to move on.
If you really believe that trump and his supporters aren’t racially fueled who continually denounce and refuse to accept that there is systemic racism spurred on by trump and his supporters in our gov’t agencies. And you want to point fingers at a bigger cause. Alrighty. Kicks rocks talk l8r.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:24 PM
I remember 9/12/01.
It was the day after.
All the political...
All the religious...
All the races...
All people and places...
We all became just Americans and did what we had to do to move forward.
What the hell have we become?
It was the day after.
All the political...
All the religious...
All the races...
All people and places...
We all became just Americans and did what we had to do to move forward.
What the hell have we become?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:44 PM
That was an attack from others . This was an attack from within. We became what trumps wanted
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:48 PM
Amen to that.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:49 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I remember 9/12/01.
It was the day after.
All the political...
All the religious...
All the races...
All people and places...
We all became just Americans and did what we had to do to move forward.
What the hell have we become?
It was the day after.
All the political...
All the religious...
All the races...
All people and places...
We all became just Americans and did what we had to do to move forward.
What the hell have we become?
Not what you think we have become.
Not what we read here all day.
Not what the media tells us we are.
Not what Facebook and Twitter tells us we are.
Not what anyone on the internet that grabs his/her megaphone, day after day, and tries to tell you who you are.
No matter how loud they are they will never drown out the heart and soul as who we are as Americans.
Most Americans care about their fellow brothers and sisters: black, brown, red, yellow, or other.
If people would put on their "big boy pants", quit crying and screaming, roll up their sleeves and do some work to change this trash, we could return to the country we knew and loved. Fact is, it's still here.
All the crap that makes this country less than great has been right under our noses for over a century. Corrupt politics hand in hand with corporate greed. They lick their chops, crack their knuckles, paint on a smile with a fake look of concern and pit us against each other -- as if we are our own enemy. And we all buy it. It's so easy, it's clockwork, it's dumbfounding, it's beyond frustrating, and has many of us at our wits end...
But we go on, doing our best to make this better, helping our fellow brothers and sisters. Many of us donating time, money, resources. Trying our best to learn, doing our best to love... For what? To be labeled and thrown out with yesterday's trash.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat... and then look around in utter bewilderment, trying to figure out what's wrong.
/rant
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 03:49 PM
I didn't remotely say or infer anything like that. I'll disregard the insult. I do sincerely hope you have a good weekend, though.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:02 PM
I know we’re good. Sorry I’m seriously venting my rage that trump incites a political mob riot to take over the Capitol killing 5 and trump get’s his usual pass... not his fault. It’s the fault of the media, the libtards, BLM, antifa....trump need not be held accountable and if he is, Look out for the wrath of his fury that your reputation as a politician will be forever tarnished. GOP leadership are cowards.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:14 PM
lol, he damn sure isn't getting a pass. He's being berated and humiliated at every turn right now. I don't think he will finish his last 12 days, but even if he does, this killed his future plans. Even the Trumpians and Qs are turning on him, saying he abandoned them. Trump is all but done. But we have to let this play out.
I'm happy he is getting lambasted from every angle. I hope he faces charges at some point too. But more than anything, I hope we can find a way to heal the country. I'm not in the mood for civil war.
I'm happy he is getting lambasted from every angle. I hope he faces charges at some point too. But more than anything, I hope we can find a way to heal the country. I'm not in the mood for civil war.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:18 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Quote:
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Yep and 80+ Million Americans plus another 100+ Million Americans who didn’t vote. Are not racists. That explains more.
It's the square rectangle relationship.
All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.
All racists voted for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a racist.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:19 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: BADdog
4 years of trump and republican rhetoric about election fraud got us here.
No, when you set a piece of paper on fire once you put out the fire the burnt edges remain burnt. The piece of paper isn't restored to it's original condition.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:23 PM
I guess. Pence needs to step up and invoke the 25th or his career is pretty much over as well.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty
I just wonder how many of you genius lefties still want to defund the po lice? I didn't see Pelosi and AOC refusing police protection. I don't know if Liberals are idiots or just hypocrites,
1st I want to say that I think police budgets should be bigger. Increase salary to get higher quality people, increase training...
But it's been pointed out numerous times that defunding the police is a poorly chosen label and doesn't mean anything close to what the terminology implies. Not sure why you choose to continually ignore what defund the police is really about and perpetuate the fallacy.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Jester
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Quote:
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Yep and 80+ Million Americans plus another 100+ Million Americans who didn’t vote. Are not racists. That explains more.
It's the square rectangle relationship.
All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.
All racists voted for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a racist.
Whatever it’s obvious now, that a vote for trump was a vote for anarchy, racism, and white supremacy.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:32 PM
Quote:
increase training..???.
You do realize that comes with better schooling right? Fund the schools first and you’ll get better trained cops. Pretty simple concept right?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:36 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
I guess. Pence needs to step up and invoke the 25th or his career is pretty much over as well.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:37 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
4 years of trump and republican rhetoric about election fraud got us here.
This is most definitely true. But the lefts have some culpability as well. A lot of it is that the lefts are terrible with naming things. Defund the police is not remotely seeking anything that the name implies, Black lives matter was a mistake in naming as well. Of course people are going to respond with all lives matter. The BLM terminology implies that they only care about black lives. BLM should have come out as all lives matter and all lives cannot matter until black lives matter too.
Another issue is the BLM protests. They lasted way too long for one. Secondly the rioting and looting that happened during the BLM protests completely took away from their message.
Republicans have culpability too. The way they enabled trump to act the way he has for 4 years is inexcusable. The way the senate republicans gave an impeached president a bye without holding a legitimate trial is inexcusable.
The was republicans kowtowed to trump because they were afraid of mean tweets is complete cowardice.
There is plenty of blame to go around but it is clear that trump is driving the bus
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 04:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Jester
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Quote:
Hmmm... 75+ million Americans are racist. Well that explains everything.
Yep and 80+ Million Americans plus another 100+ Million Americans who didn’t vote. Are not racists. That explains more.
It's the square rectangle relationship.
All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.
All racists voted for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a racist.
That isn't close to being true. You can't tell me that there aren't any racists amongst the people who voted for President elect Biden.
Let's keep it real here.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 05:07 PM
QAnon,
Trump
Ted Cruz
Josh Hawley
Louis Gohmert
Rudy G
Powell
Lin Wood
Last but certainly not least, The idiots that believed all the lies and committed the crimes
Trump
Ted Cruz
Josh Hawley
Louis Gohmert
Rudy G
Powell
Lin Wood
Last but certainly not least, The idiots that believed all the lies and committed the crimes
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 05:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
I doubt that.
The problem is the American media. The media doesn't report news anymore. They make news with endless hours of commentary based on their political leaning.
Call this a wake up call.
You can blame the media on division. You can't blame them for what the man who fanned the flames and poured gasoline on the fire who created an inferno did. Well I guess you can because you continue to do so.
When a man calls the free press "the enemy of the people", when he says that "Democrats will destroy America" and calls for a rally where he and his cronies stoke a call for violence then send them to the scene of the crime, it's about time you step up and accept the reality of what happened here. You know better.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 05:24 PM
Pelosi has just called Gen Milley to block trump from access to the nuclear codes
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 05:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
That isn't close to being true. You can't tell me that there aren't any racists amongst the people who voted for President elect Biden.
Let's keep it real here.
Yes.
Let's keep it real. Specifically:
Who do you think the vast majority of the Proud Boys, and any /all other White 'Nationalist' / Supremist groups voted for in this election?
Who do you think David Duke and every other "Leader" in this field voted for?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 05:32 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
IMO. Trump was simply a backlash for America voting in a black President slapped across our face by a system polluted with systemic racism.
I doubt that.
The problem is the American media. The media doesn't report news anymore. They make news with endless hours of commentary based on their political leaning.
Call this a wake up call.
You can blame the media on division. You can't blame them for what the man who fanned the flames and poured gasoline on the fire who created an inferno did. Well I guess you can because you continue to do so.
When a man calls the free press "the enemy of the people", when he says that "Democrats will destroy America" and calls for a rally where he and his cronies stoke a call for violence then send them to the scene of the crime, it's about time you step up and accept the reality of what happened here. You know better.
I don't give President Trump a pass on that. I am very disappointed in the guy. I don't know why you say it's about time for me to step up. I have said very little.
I see no real need to try to talk to a group of people you can't talk to...at least I seemingly can't, so what is the point in expressing my opinion?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 05:50 PM
Because there are those of us who like to hear it and engage with you.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 05:52 PM
Here are insurgents carrying flex-cuffs inside the Senate Chambers. Their stated goal was to take hostages.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:01 PM
Damn.
These guys were in here doing what Al Qaeda and Daesh could only dream of doing.
These guys were in here doing what Al Qaeda and Daesh could only dream of doing.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:01 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
If you really believe that trump and his supporters aren’t racially fueled who continually denounce and refuse to accept that there is systemic racism spurred on by trump and his supporters in our gov’t agencies. And you want to point fingers at a bigger cause. Alrighty. Kicks rocks talk l8r.
Why is it I always find myself planted somewhere in the middle of both extremes? I guess it's because that's where I find reality and the most comfort.
You sound exactly like the right who claimed that all BLS protestors were rioting. That everyone on the left supports riots and violence. Are there racists among Trump supporters? There certainly are. But the way you are framing it makes you no less guilty than what they have done in labeling an entire group of people for the actions, thoughts and motivation of a portion of that group.
We saw the worst of Trump's supporters storm the Capital building. We know they aren't the only Trump supporters who share those views. But many of those who voted for Trump weren't motivated by racism or because we had a black president. They were motivated by their conservative values and some, a sense of party loyalty. There are further reasons but trying to lump everyone under the tent of racism is not true, not productive nor is it accurate in any way.
I do believe that a lot of Trump supporters do not believe there is systemic racism. Many of us are by products of our experiences on life's journey. If I simply based what I considered my reality on my experiences growing up, I probably wouldn't believe in it myself. I know it's a tough path to walk, but trying to better inform and educate those who do not see it or believe it will go much further than trying to label them and exclude them.
The path you choose to follow is certainly your own choice. But after watching the past four years, after watching everyone who disagrees with Trump or anyone who marched with BLM being labeled and lumped in together, I refuse to travel down the same path they chose.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I don't give President Trump a pass on that. I am very disappointed in the guy. I don't know why you say it's about time for me to step up. I have said very little.
I see no real need to try to talk to a group of people you can't talk to...at least I seemingly can't, so what is the point in expressing my opinion?
I see no real need to try to talk to a group of people you can't talk to...at least I seemingly can't, so what is the point in expressing my opinion?
I'm not so sure I follow here. It seems quite clear you have no problem giving your opinion about the media and where we are is the fault of the media. Yet you're willing to go no further. You have been totally unwilling to discuss Trump and his role in any of this.
You haven't discussed the rally they held. How Rudy called for combat, about Don Jr's comments or about Trump telling them to march to the capital. You have totally avoided discussing any part of the role Trump has played in any of this.
It's as if you have no problem blaming the media but avoid discussing Trump's role in this like the plague. What that does is give the appearance you're trying to deflect everything on the media while refusing to hold trump to any level of accountability.
So you discuss the opinions you choose to focus on while ignoring the rest. I know you and I disagree a lot about politics. I have no problem with that. But as a man and as a person, I have always had respect for you. None of this changes that. But I really thought your feelings and opinions would be more forceful when it came to an attack on our nations capital. I wasn't expecting deflection and avoidance on such a danger to the very democracy we all believe in no matter the political affiliations we ascribe to.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:26 PM
Thanks for the photo.
What a contrast.
Lil' pudge in his sweat britches and tennis shoes having difficulty getting across the railing.But,that dude in camo is a dangerous looking,militarily trained individual.
Something tells me those two are not together.
What a contrast.
Lil' pudge in his sweat britches and tennis shoes having difficulty getting across the railing.But,that dude in camo is a dangerous looking,militarily trained individual.
Something tells me those two are not together.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:27 PM
Quote:
All racists voted for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a racist.
If you believe there are no racists in the democratic party or who voted for Biden, you are painfully naive.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:29 PM
Originally Posted By: BCbrownie
Thanks for the photo.
What a contrast.
Lil' pudge in his sweat britches and tennis shoes having difficulty getting across the railing.But,that dude in camo is a dangerous looking,militarily trained individual.
Something tells me those two are not together.
What a contrast.
Lil' pudge in his sweat britches and tennis shoes having difficulty getting across the railing.But,that dude in camo is a dangerous looking,militarily trained individual.
Something tells me those two are not together.
What's your point?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:37 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
All racists voted for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a racist.
If you believe there are no racists in the democratic party or who voted for Biden, you are painfully naive.
There are good and bad in every large group of people. Trying to use race, if you served, Saying, "I'm a cop, I'm a Republican, I'm a democrat" doesn't mean you have made the case that any of those things make you a better person or that you aren't racist.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:37 PM
Originally Posted By: BCbrownie
Thanks for the photo.
What a contrast.
Lil' pudge in his sweat britches and tennis shoes having difficulty getting across the railing.But,that dude in camo is a dangerous looking,militarily trained individual.
Something tells me those two are not together.
What a contrast.
Lil' pudge in his sweat britches and tennis shoes having difficulty getting across the railing.But,that dude in camo is a dangerous looking,militarily trained individual.
Something tells me those two are not together.
I doubt he is military trained just because he shops at a military surplus store... He just looks like a guy who needs to be throat punched to me. And I hope those cuffs get used on him and his buddies or shoved up his ass at some point.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:42 PM
Just an observation.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:44 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:50 PM
Circa 1986, when establishment, academia and media, politicians, who don't espow religion, actually claim to " stop shoving your religion on us"
Started changing the language, one specifically changing a statement a kin to,
"wipe that smile off your face" replaced with
"wipe that smile off the face"
That, that kind of rhetoric starts a nation down a road that ends with a holocaust, or genocide, the act is worse than my not knowing it's name.
Well, if I can see this in 1986, when Elway was a name Richard, I could surely put off my mind that maybe we'd never actually get there, but well, kind of on the brink today.
Started changing the language, one specifically changing a statement a kin to,
"wipe that smile off your face" replaced with
"wipe that smile off the face"
That, that kind of rhetoric starts a nation down a road that ends with a holocaust, or genocide, the act is worse than my not knowing it's name.
Well, if I can see this in 1986, when Elway was a name Richard, I could surely put off my mind that maybe we'd never actually get there, but well, kind of on the brink today.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:53 PM
Keep 'em coming.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 06:55 PM
And here is what I really don't get... and what lead to deaths.
On one hand -- there are a ton of violent confrontations -- an officer was killed, a rioter was killed, three others died. Buildings were ransacked.
On the other hand, there is this:
On one hand -- there are a ton of violent confrontations -- an officer was killed, a rioter was killed, three others died. Buildings were ransacked.
On the other hand, there is this:
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 07:13 PM
What is the thinking here? Have these officers just committed a crime?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 07:16 PM
It's amazing the difference you will see when law enforcement sees one group of people as the enemy, dangerous and a threat. Then they see another group of people as like minded individuals.
As we saw, some of the law enforcement actually tried to stand up for law and order. Yet other parts of law enforcement seemed to be saying, "Come on in buddy!"
In the end they were simply outnumbered and overwhelmed. But there were certainly some, like those taking selfies with rioters an moving the barricades, who should and hopefully will lost their jobs over this.
As we saw, some of the law enforcement actually tried to stand up for law and order. Yet other parts of law enforcement seemed to be saying, "Come on in buddy!"
In the end they were simply outnumbered and overwhelmed. But there were certainly some, like those taking selfies with rioters an moving the barricades, who should and hopefully will lost their jobs over this.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 07:48 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
It's amazing the difference you will see when law enforcement sees one group of people as the enemy, dangerous and a threat. Then they see another group of people as like minded individuals.
As we saw, some of the law enforcement actually tried to stand up for law and order. Yet other parts of law enforcement seemed to be saying, "Come on in buddy!"
In the end they were simply outnumbered and overwhelmed. But there were certainly some, like those taking selfies with rioters an moving the barricades, who should and hopefully will lost their jobs over this.
As we saw, some of the law enforcement actually tried to stand up for law and order. Yet other parts of law enforcement seemed to be saying, "Come on in buddy!"
In the end they were simply outnumbered and overwhelmed. But there were certainly some, like those taking selfies with rioters an moving the barricades, who should and hopefully will lost their jobs over this.
I just keep thinking back to the woman who got shot and killed.
And I want to be clear - I'm not excusing her actions at all.
But - there is a barrier, there is some pushing and shoving, and then they push through - and then the police let them go through.
Then there is another barrier, they break it down and go through - maybe some officers yelled at them not to do it -- but then once they did they marched through.
Maybe there was some moment like this -- that she saw in the middle. Where officers are basically welcoming them in through another barrier.
She gets to a barricaded door - with some desks in front of it. A single police officer is yelling from the other side. But they break the glass.
Why wouldn't she think that -- once she jumps through, the officer will just let everybody in?
But then from the officers perspective -- it's a barricaded entrance. You are the only police officer there (it isn't clear whether the officer knows the other officers are coming up the steps). Behind you there are doors to congressional offices (possibly with VIPs hiding in them? VIPs the mob wants to capture or hurt.).
That is the last defensible location you have -- and you decide that this door is the red line. It's not an unreasonable decision.
When you have a police force against a riot -- you have to be very clear where the red lines are, and what the consequences are for crossing them. The lack of police force at the capitol prevented that from happening - and contributed to the deaths and injuries that occured.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 07:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Here are insurgents carrying flex-cuffs inside the Senate Chambers. Their stated goal was to take hostages.
Looking at this - and looking at other photos of smiling unmasked insurgents/protesters ... I would say there was two sets of different groups part of that incident. Maybe more.
Clearly these two are prepared to kidnap - possibly make demands - possibly occupy ... without doubt escalate this to a whole different level than it ended up being. They operated under a cloud or behind a screen of other protesters who were not so prepared and whose intentions might simply have been to garner attention?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:03 PM
That is the last defensible location you have -- and you decide that this door is the red line. It's not an unreasonable decision.
I think this is what happened. I think Pence and the others were exiting right there at that time. She should not think she can walk thru when an officer is pointing a gun at her. and other rioters were telling her to stop.
I think this is what happened. I think Pence and the others were exiting right there at that time. She should not think she can walk thru when an officer is pointing a gun at her. and other rioters were telling her to stop.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:04 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Why is it I always find myself planted somewhere in the middle of both extremes? I guess it's because that's where I find reality and the most comfort.
There are extremists in every walk of life and one extremist on one side is no better than the extremist on the other side. I've never been in favor of labeling all Trump supporters racist. I've got into spats with OCD about what a negative impact I thought it was to simply respond in kind to the lowest common denominator on the Trump side. It does nothing to repair, heal, educate.
I'll maintain Trump courts with and panders to the Racists - and he has done it deliberately. That doesn't mean every Trump voter is racist. It doesn't mean that only non racists voted for Biden. What we can say - per earlier post - the majority of hardcore Supremacists most definitely voted for Trump.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:09 PM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
Circa 1986, when establishment, academia and media, politicians, who don't espow religion, actually claim to " stop shoving your religion on us"
Started changing the language, one specifically changing a statement a kin to,
"wipe that smile off your face" replaced with
"wipe that smile off the face"
That, that kind of rhetoric starts a nation down a road that ends with a holocaust, or genocide, the act is worse than my not knowing it's name.
Well, if I can see this in 1986, when Elway was a name Richard, I could surely put off my mind that maybe we'd never actually get there, but well, kind of on the brink today.
Started changing the language, one specifically changing a statement a kin to,
"wipe that smile off your face" replaced with
"wipe that smile off the face"
That, that kind of rhetoric starts a nation down a road that ends with a holocaust, or genocide, the act is worse than my not knowing it's name.
Well, if I can see this in 1986, when Elway was a name Richard, I could surely put off my mind that maybe we'd never actually get there, but well, kind of on the brink today.
https://www.betterhelp.com/?fbclid=IwAR0G53TxYQ07KYFu6WHESF1IR9eV4QHerHd4iwfqX8Iq_M0o7yaMA-8V2gM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:11 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Here are insurgents carrying flex-cuffs inside the Senate Chambers. Their stated goal was to take hostages.
Looking at this - and looking at other photos of smiling unmasked insurgents/protesters ... I would say there was two sets of different groups part of that incident. Maybe more.
Clearly these two are prepared to kidnap - possibly make demands - possibly occupy ... without doubt escalate this to a whole different level than it ended up being. They operated under a cloud or behind a screen of other protesters who were not so prepared and whose intentions might simply have been to garner attention?
This is true in every protest and riot ever...
There are 100 different reasons that people are there -- and every person thinks different actions are acceptable and unacceptable.
That is why you need a large police force that can deal with different individuals at different levels.
This crowd was much smaller than some of the BLM, March for Women, etc. crowds that have gathered over the years. I think it was (in general) much more violent. But I still think that the people who wanted violence were well in the minority (maybe 5% of the crowd?).
You see it in the Woman complaining she was maced when she tried to walk into the capitol building. She really didn't understand the enormity of her actions -- and I think that is true for a lot of people.
Unfortunately -- there were political leaders (Trump, Hawley, Trump JR, Giuliani) who did know better - and chose to put people in danger.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:22 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
All racists voted for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a racist.
If you believe there are no racists in the democratic party or who voted for Biden, you are painfully naive.
Yes this is true. There is a huge difference tho. And that is the Democratic Party did not nominate a well known proven over and over racist for POTUS. The vast majority of Democrats don’t openly support racism like trump supporters and the GOP leadership on Capitol Hill do.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
And here is what I really don't get... and what lead to deaths.
On one hand -- there are a ton of violent confrontations -- an officer was killed, a rioter was killed, three others died. Buildings were ransacked.
On the other hand, there is this:
On one hand -- there are a ton of violent confrontations -- an officer was killed, a rioter was killed, three others died. Buildings were ransacked.
On the other hand, there is this:
Why did this happen?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:31 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Why did this happen?
That is a great question -- and I expect we'll hear a lot about why the police made some of these decisions.
It's clear that this backfired spectacularly - and the head of the Police Force (and Sgt at Arms for both the house and senate) have already resigned.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:41 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
And here is what I really don't get... and what lead to deaths.
On one hand -- there are a ton of violent confrontations -- an officer was killed, a rioter was killed, three others died. Buildings were ransacked.
On the other hand, there is this:
On one hand -- there are a ton of violent confrontations -- an officer was killed, a rioter was killed, three others died. Buildings were ransacked.
On the other hand, there is this:
Why did this happen?
Because they think they work for trump. Did you not see Capitol Police taking selfie’s with insurrectionists inside?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:43 PM
You are making an accusation there is no proof of. You're no different than Trump stoking the flames in the other direction.
This is why I will never give my loyalty to either party.
Quote:
The vast majority of Democrats don’t openly support racism like trump supporters and the GOP leadership on Capitol Hill do.
This is why I will never give my loyalty to either party.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:51 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
You are making an accusation there is no proof of. You're no different than Trump stoking the flames in the other direction.
This is why I will never give my loyalty to either party.
Quote:
The vast majority of Democrats don’t openly support racism like trump supporters and the GOP leadership on Capitol Hill do.
This is why I will never give my loyalty to either party.
Accusations? Pictures don’t lie. capitol police were coddling terrorists. Yuking it up. Heads will roll. Mark my words.
I vote for the best candidate local and nationally. I never voted a straight ticket in my life. Came close this year but NH has a decent GOP Governor.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
You see it in the Woman complaining she was maced when she tried to walk into the capitol building. She really didn't understand the enormity of her actions -- and I think that is true for a lot of people.
They asked her her name, where she is from and why she was there. She answered all the questions. Go arrest her. She incredulously said she was there because it is a revolution!
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 08:57 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
You see it in the Woman complaining she was maced when she tried to walk into the capitol building. She really didn't understand the enormity of her actions -- and I think that is true for a lot of people.
They asked her her name, where she is from and why she was there. She answered all the questions. Go arrest her. She incredulously said she was there because it is a revolution!
I don't disagree - and I want to be perfectly clear -- I'm not condoning any of the actions of rioters.
Everybody who set foot in the capitol should be arrested.
I'm only saying that the lack of clear red lines made the situation much more dangerous - and led to loss of life.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 09:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
You see it in the Woman complaining she was maced when she tried to walk into the capitol building. She really didn't understand the enormity of her actions -- and I think that is true for a lot of people.
They asked her her name, where she is from and why she was there. She answered all the questions. Go arrest her. She incredulously said she was there because it is a revolution!
I don't disagree - and I want to be perfectly clear -- I'm not condoning any of the actions of rioters.
Everybody who set foot in the capitol should be arrested.
I'm only saying that the lack of clear red lines made the situation much more dangerous - and led to loss of life.
No need for red lines if the capitol police was capable and ready for the worst case scenario. Another trump failure. His denial. His incitement. His administration. Losing.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 09:10 PM
On the woman who was shot, are we sure that the shooter is a cop? He's wearing a suit, so I'm wondering if he's Secret Service. If so, that adds in another element regarding chain of command and protocols varying from one agency in place to another, potentially.
I would be willing to bet that there was a VIP, if not multiple, down that hallway.
I would be willing to bet that there was a VIP, if not multiple, down that hallway.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 09:12 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
On the woman who was shot, are we sure that the shooter is a cop? He's wearing a suit, so I'm wondering if he's Secret Service. If so, that adds in another element regarding chain of command and protocols varying from one agency in place to another, potentially.
I would be willing to bet that there was a VIP, if not multiple, down that hallway.
I would be willing to bet that there was a VIP, if not multiple, down that hallway.
It is unclear what his chain of command was - and they have not identified who the officer was.
From the extra furniture etc. pushed in front of that door - it is clear that door was a position they decided they needed to defend.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 09:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
On the woman who was shot, are we sure that the shooter is a cop? He's wearing a suit, so I'm wondering if he's Secret Service. If so, that adds in another element regarding chain of command and protocols varying from one agency in place to another, potentially.
I would be willing to bet that there was a VIP, if not multiple, down that hallway.
I would be willing to bet that there was a VIP, if not multiple, down that hallway.
It is unclear what his chain of command was - and they have not identified who the officer was.
From the extra furniture etc. pushed in front of that door - it is clear that door was a position they decided they needed to defend.
Who ever the officer is. He saved lives. Hero.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 09:22 PM
Yeah, if this dude is Secret Service, he is the absolute last line of defense, and I think it's logical to believe that his actions are not discretionary. It's if X happens, you shoot. I'd like to see that question regarding his role answered.
If that is the case, and the cops out front disregarded the red lines, and pretty much let these people in to a situation where they'd be approaching a last line of defense, shoot-to-kill situation from a separate branch of law enforcement, it makes things even crazier and more complicated.
If that is the case, and the cops out front disregarded the red lines, and pretty much let these people in to a situation where they'd be approaching a last line of defense, shoot-to-kill situation from a separate branch of law enforcement, it makes things even crazier and more complicated.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 09:22 PM
Here's the odd part in what you're saying here as I see it. Trump had over 74 million people vote for him. There were thousands of people who came to the protest in Washington. Of those thousands, not even the majority of those protestors stormed the Capital building.
So let's break that down shall we? The thousands that came to Washington were far less than even .25 of one percent of Trump supporters. Of that well under .25 percent of trump supports, far less than half of them stormed the Capital building.
So from that minuscule portion of Trump supporters, of which I'm giving great liberties in those numbers skewed in your favor to increase the amount from what would be the actual numbers, here's what your claim was.....
Now maybe you meant something different than the way you presented it. But by looking at what you posted, I'll stand by my previous comments.
So let's break that down shall we? The thousands that came to Washington were far less than even .25 of one percent of Trump supporters. Of that well under .25 percent of trump supports, far less than half of them stormed the Capital building.
So from that minuscule portion of Trump supporters, of which I'm giving great liberties in those numbers skewed in your favor to increase the amount from what would be the actual numbers, here's what your claim was.....
Quote:
The vast majority of Democrats don’t openly support racism like trump supporters and the GOP leadership on Capitol Hill do.
Now maybe you meant something different than the way you presented it. But by looking at what you posted, I'll stand by my previous comments.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 09:57 PM
FYI, there’s a video on Twitter that I can’t post here. I think it’s also on the Washington Post. It muddies the water even further. It shows the events leading up to Ashli’s death, not just the moment she was shot.
Basically, there were three cops standing in front of the door. One of the rioters was actually punching the door around the cop’s head and he wasn’t reacting. You can see one of the Democratic reps down the hallway who was visible to the rioters as well. They were attempting to get to him. For whatever reason unknown to me, the three cops left and began walking down the stairs. Prior to that, they were the only ones between the rioters and the doors.
After the cops left, the rioters started trying to break down the door and windows, including Ashli. This is when the first video we all saw released yesterday began. The officer wearing the suit behind the door aimed his weapon. Most people who started smashing the door were aware and backed off. Ashli was still hanging onto the door frame and trying to get in. You can then see him take aim and fire, leading to everything we already know.
Let me know if I missed something or if anyone has anything to add.
Basically, there were three cops standing in front of the door. One of the rioters was actually punching the door around the cop’s head and he wasn’t reacting. You can see one of the Democratic reps down the hallway who was visible to the rioters as well. They were attempting to get to him. For whatever reason unknown to me, the three cops left and began walking down the stairs. Prior to that, they were the only ones between the rioters and the doors.
After the cops left, the rioters started trying to break down the door and windows, including Ashli. This is when the first video we all saw released yesterday began. The officer wearing the suit behind the door aimed his weapon. Most people who started smashing the door were aware and backed off. Ashli was still hanging onto the door frame and trying to get in. You can then see him take aim and fire, leading to everything we already know.
Let me know if I missed something or if anyone has anything to add.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 10:17 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 10:27 PM
How many mili-seconds until the establishment left gets the
Circus of, conflict back in the middle east started again.
Half a week? yea probably about half a week.
Circus of, conflict back in the middle east started again.
Half a week? yea probably about half a week.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 10:29 PM
Way to stay on topic 
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 10:40 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
While that is quite potent imagery, the issue is that, just like the overwhelming number of people who supported BLM and the protests but objected to looting and violence .... The overwhelming number of people who voted for Trump objected to the Capitol occupation and would most certainly object to the picture of the confederate flag in the building.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 10:49 PM
Just saw the Washington Post video -- I think it makes it clearer that this was a line -- and they should have known it.
There are house members on the other side (identified by the washington post) in the hallway 30 feet away. Cops are holding the line.
Protestors are telling the Cops that they have them outmanned (they do, by a lot) and "we don't want you to get hurt, there are a lot of people getting hurt out there -- but there are a lot of people coming up here and we are going to get through the door."
The cops seem to leave presumably, (since the hall is empty in the next shot) they left once the VIPs got evacuated into the office rooms -- there are three of them attached to the Speaker's lobby.
As soon as the cops leave, people start breaking down the doors, with fits, metal and wooden poles, etc...
Then the protestors notice the cop on the other side take a tactical position and poll a gun - there are shouts of "he has a gun"
The victim decides at that point to jump through the broken glass window.
The officer fires.
There are house members on the other side (identified by the washington post) in the hallway 30 feet away. Cops are holding the line.
Protestors are telling the Cops that they have them outmanned (they do, by a lot) and "we don't want you to get hurt, there are a lot of people getting hurt out there -- but there are a lot of people coming up here and we are going to get through the door."
The cops seem to leave presumably, (since the hall is empty in the next shot) they left once the VIPs got evacuated into the office rooms -- there are three of them attached to the Speaker's lobby.
As soon as the cops leave, people start breaking down the doors, with fits, metal and wooden poles, etc...
Then the protestors notice the cop on the other side take a tactical position and poll a gun - there are shouts of "he has a gun"
The victim decides at that point to jump through the broken glass window.
The officer fires.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 11:28 PM
I just watched that video as well. That was definitely the line not to cross.
I was curious if those other officers knew to walk away from the situation because all the other tactical officers were coming up the stairs basically simultaneously.
Crazy video to watch unfold.
I was curious if those other officers knew to walk away from the situation because all the other tactical officers were coming up the stairs basically simultaneously.
Crazy video to watch unfold.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 11:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
I was curious if those other officers knew to walk away from the situation because all the other tactical officers were coming up the stairs basically simultaneously.
I should have read the whole article first.
At this point, one officer guarding the door said to the others, “They’re ready to roll,” and gestured to them to come with him, the video shows. The officers stepped away from the door together and moved to an adjacent wall.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 11:40 PM
Trump now permanently suspended/banned from Twitter!
Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump
After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them — specifically how they are being received and interpreted on and off Twitter — we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence.
In the context of horrific events this week, we made it clear on Wednesday that additional violations of the Twitter Rules would potentially result in this very course of action. Our public interest framework exists to enable the public to hear from elected officials and world leaders directly. It is built on a principle that the people have a right to hold power to account in the open.
However, we made it clear going back years that these accounts are not above our rules entirely and cannot use Twitter to incite violence, among other things. We will continue to be transparent around our policies and their enforcement.
The below is a comprehensive analysis of our policy enforcement approach in this case.
Overview
On January 8, 2021, President Donald J. Trump tweeted:
“The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!”
Shortly thereafter, the President tweeted:
“To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.”
Due to the ongoing tensions in the United States, and an uptick in the global conversation in regards to the people who violently stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021, these two Tweets must be read in the context of broader events in the country and the ways in which the President’s statements can be mobilized by different audiences, including to incite violence, as well as in the context of the pattern of behavior from this account in recent weeks. After assessing the language in these Tweets against our Glorification of Violence policy, we have determined that these Tweets are in violation of the Glorification of Violence Policy and the user @realDonaldTrump should be immediately permanently suspended from the service.
Assessment
We assessed the two Tweets referenced above under our Glorification of Violence policy, which aims to prevent the glorification of violence that could inspire others to replicate violent acts and determined that they were highly likely to encourage and inspire people to replicate the criminal acts that took place at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.
This determination is based on a number of factors, including:
President Trump’s statement that he will not be attending the Inauguration is being received by a number of his supporters as further confirmation that the election was not legitimate and is seen as him disavowing his previous claim made via two Tweets (1, 2) by his Deputy Chief of Staff, Dan Scavino, that there would be an “orderly transition” on January 20th.
The second Tweet may also serve as encouragement to those potentially considering violent acts that the Inauguration would be a “safe” target, as he will not be attending.
The use of the words “American Patriots” to describe some of his supporters is also being interpreted as support for those committing violent acts at the US Capitol.
The mention of his supporters having a “GIANT VOICE long into the future” and that “They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!” is being interpreted as further indication that President Trump does not plan to facilitate an “orderly transition” and instead that he plans to continue to support, empower, and shield those who believe he won the election.
Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021.
As such, our determination is that the two Tweets above are likely to inspire others to replicate the violent acts that took place on January 6, 2021, and that there are multiple indicators that they are being received and understood as encouragement to do so.
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html
Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump
After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them — specifically how they are being received and interpreted on and off Twitter — we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence.
In the context of horrific events this week, we made it clear on Wednesday that additional violations of the Twitter Rules would potentially result in this very course of action. Our public interest framework exists to enable the public to hear from elected officials and world leaders directly. It is built on a principle that the people have a right to hold power to account in the open.
However, we made it clear going back years that these accounts are not above our rules entirely and cannot use Twitter to incite violence, among other things. We will continue to be transparent around our policies and their enforcement.
The below is a comprehensive analysis of our policy enforcement approach in this case.
Overview
On January 8, 2021, President Donald J. Trump tweeted:
“The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!”
Shortly thereafter, the President tweeted:
“To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.”
Due to the ongoing tensions in the United States, and an uptick in the global conversation in regards to the people who violently stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021, these two Tweets must be read in the context of broader events in the country and the ways in which the President’s statements can be mobilized by different audiences, including to incite violence, as well as in the context of the pattern of behavior from this account in recent weeks. After assessing the language in these Tweets against our Glorification of Violence policy, we have determined that these Tweets are in violation of the Glorification of Violence Policy and the user @realDonaldTrump should be immediately permanently suspended from the service.
Assessment
We assessed the two Tweets referenced above under our Glorification of Violence policy, which aims to prevent the glorification of violence that could inspire others to replicate violent acts and determined that they were highly likely to encourage and inspire people to replicate the criminal acts that took place at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.
This determination is based on a number of factors, including:
President Trump’s statement that he will not be attending the Inauguration is being received by a number of his supporters as further confirmation that the election was not legitimate and is seen as him disavowing his previous claim made via two Tweets (1, 2) by his Deputy Chief of Staff, Dan Scavino, that there would be an “orderly transition” on January 20th.
The second Tweet may also serve as encouragement to those potentially considering violent acts that the Inauguration would be a “safe” target, as he will not be attending.
The use of the words “American Patriots” to describe some of his supporters is also being interpreted as support for those committing violent acts at the US Capitol.
The mention of his supporters having a “GIANT VOICE long into the future” and that “They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!” is being interpreted as further indication that President Trump does not plan to facilitate an “orderly transition” and instead that he plans to continue to support, empower, and shield those who believe he won the election.
Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021.
As such, our determination is that the two Tweets above are likely to inspire others to replicate the violent acts that took place on January 6, 2021, and that there are multiple indicators that they are being received and understood as encouragement to do so.
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/08/21 11:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
I just watched that video as well. That was definitely the line not to cross.
I was curious if those other officers knew to walk away from the situation because all the other tactical officers were coming up the stairs basically simultaneously.
Crazy video to watch unfold.
I was curious if those other officers knew to walk away from the situation because all the other tactical officers were coming up the stairs basically simultaneously.
Crazy video to watch unfold.
I believe that the tactical officers came up to rescue the other officers -- who were seriously outmanned -- and even with new reinforcements they were still outmanned.
They seem to be leading those three officers down the stairwell, and only come up after shots were fired.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 12:06 AM
I missed that part, too. Yeah, it seems like they were waiting for the tactical officers to come up and left when they were arriving.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 12:08 AM
That's definitely what happened. I just had not read the remainder of the article yet.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 12:09 AM
Maybe that’s the case as well. My initial thought when I saw it was “why the hell are these guys leaving???”
I was thinking that from a vantage point that, yeah, they were outnumbered, but it just appeared to be the one officer behind the door which was already close to being broken, with VIPs down the hallway.
I was thinking that from a vantage point that, yeah, they were outnumbered, but it just appeared to be the one officer behind the door which was already close to being broken, with VIPs down the hallway.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 12:12 AM
J/C
I sure love Friday evening deplatforming!
I sure love Friday evening deplatforming!
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 12:56 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 02:05 AM
Here's my 2 cents (since you were obviously asking for it...) :-p
Twitter is just trying to save face. Sorry, I don't buy it. They've handed this lunatic a bullhorn for the last 4+ years that he's used it to amplify way waaaaaay worse tweets than the ones above. He folded his hands like a toddler and said he's not going to the inauguration, and the other tweet don't even rate in terms of the vile crap he's spewed on their platform. They've had ample opportunity to take the tool that they created and manage out of his hands, and they decide now is the time.
I suppose it's better than continuing to not do anything at all, but honestly it just feels like a slimy corporate move to save a little face.
Twitter is just trying to save face. Sorry, I don't buy it. They've handed this lunatic a bullhorn for the last 4+ years that he's used it to amplify way waaaaaay worse tweets than the ones above. He folded his hands like a toddler and said he's not going to the inauguration, and the other tweet don't even rate in terms of the vile crap he's spewed on their platform. They've had ample opportunity to take the tool that they created and manage out of his hands, and they decide now is the time.
I suppose it's better than continuing to not do anything at all, but honestly it just feels like a slimy corporate move to save a little face.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 02:24 AM
FBI: No evidence antifa involved in Capitol riot
No evidence has been found that members of the left-wing antifa movement were involved in this week’s storming of the Capitol building, the FBI said Friday, contradicting a narrative pushed by some Trump allies.
“We have no indication of that at this time,” Washington Field Office assistant director Steven D'Antuono said during a briefing when asked about any potential involvement of antifa.
The term is used to refer to the loosely connected network of far-left activists who say they are fighting against what they perceive as fascism.
Acting U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Michael Sherwin separately said Thursday that investigators had not seen evidence of antifa presence.
Several figures on the right have attempted to pin fault for the mob that broke into the Capitol on Wednesday on antifa.
Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) on Wednesday claimed that left-wing agitators had disguised themselves as Trump supporters, citing a Washington Times story with false claims that was later retracted.
Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.) also suggested on Twitter that the riot had “all the hallmarks of antifa provocation,” while Fox News host Laura Ingraham gave air to the baseless conspiracy on television.
Blaming antifa for apparent instances of right-wing violence, and claiming such members are creating “false flags,” has become a popular deflection for some conservative allies of the president.
Among those who have been identified from the Capitol riots are white nationalist and “QAnon Shaman” Jason Tankersley and Nick Ochs, founder of the Hawaii chapter for the far-right group Proud Boys, among others.
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/533432-fbi-no-evidence-antifa-involved-in-capitol-riot
No evidence has been found that members of the left-wing antifa movement were involved in this week’s storming of the Capitol building, the FBI said Friday, contradicting a narrative pushed by some Trump allies.
“We have no indication of that at this time,” Washington Field Office assistant director Steven D'Antuono said during a briefing when asked about any potential involvement of antifa.
The term is used to refer to the loosely connected network of far-left activists who say they are fighting against what they perceive as fascism.
Acting U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Michael Sherwin separately said Thursday that investigators had not seen evidence of antifa presence.
Several figures on the right have attempted to pin fault for the mob that broke into the Capitol on Wednesday on antifa.
Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) on Wednesday claimed that left-wing agitators had disguised themselves as Trump supporters, citing a Washington Times story with false claims that was later retracted.
Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.) also suggested on Twitter that the riot had “all the hallmarks of antifa provocation,” while Fox News host Laura Ingraham gave air to the baseless conspiracy on television.
Blaming antifa for apparent instances of right-wing violence, and claiming such members are creating “false flags,” has become a popular deflection for some conservative allies of the president.
Among those who have been identified from the Capitol riots are white nationalist and “QAnon Shaman” Jason Tankersley and Nick Ochs, founder of the Hawaii chapter for the far-right group Proud Boys, among others.
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/533432-fbi-no-evidence-antifa-involved-in-capitol-riot
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 02:30 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 03:33 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 03:56 AM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
On the woman who was shot, are we sure that the shooter is a cop? He's wearing a suit, so I'm wondering if he's Secret Service. If so, that adds in another element regarding chain of command and protocols varying from one agency in place to another, potentially.
I would be willing to bet that there was a VIP, if not multiple, down that hallway.
I would be willing to bet that there was a VIP, if not multiple, down that hallway.
I saw something a couple nights ago that Pence, Pelosi and Grassley were in rooms down that hallway. They are 2,3 and 4 in line to the president.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 03:57 AM
You just hate to see fascists get deplatformed.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 04:07 AM
Can you explain your use of fascists, and 'deplatformed'
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 04:42 AM
Fascism
Link
Wednesday was his most obvious example of fascism he's used. I broke this down a bit a few weeks ago and with DC. I never got a reply.
Here's the link to the post.
And no, you're not a fascist or a fascist sympathizer.
----------------------
Deplatforming
A bit more here
As for why we need to deplatform fascists, I'll leave you some links.
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Quote:
a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
Link
Wednesday was his most obvious example of fascism he's used. I broke this down a bit a few weeks ago and with DC. I never got a reply.
Here's the link to the post.
And no, you're not a fascist or a fascist sympathizer.
----------------------
Deplatforming
Quote:
To deplatform someone is to remove their access to a channel for delivering messages to an audience. Deplatforming may involve not just banning the user or discontinuing service but also removing any existing content the user previously created on the site or service.
A bit more here
As for why we need to deplatform fascists, I'll leave you some links.
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 04:54 AM
Too bad there is no LOVE button for this post.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 04:55 AM
Republican AGs group sent robocalls urging march to the Capitol
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rep...sm_npd_nn_fb_ma
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rep...sm_npd_nn_fb_ma
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 05:48 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 06:26 AM
More reason to support local journalism...
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 07:22 AM
I haven’t independently researched the money aspect of it yet, but I used to work on the other side from his daughter in the courtroom in Greene County. She was not pleasant, to say the least.
Sadly, I liked working with her much more than the guy she lost to.
Sadly, I liked working with her much more than the guy she lost to.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 09:21 AM
I like how you posted a meme and avoided everything I posted. Nice deflection.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 09:27 AM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
While that is quite potent imagery, the issue is that, just like the overwhelming number of people who supported BLM and the protests but objected to looting and violence .... The overwhelming number of people who voted for Trump objected to the Capitol occupation and would most certainly object to the picture of the confederate flag in the building.
Quoted for truth. While it may be entirely debatable if they're willing to admit it's the rhetoric that Trump has been continually spouting that has fanned the flames which are at the root of what happened is an entirely different subject, the point you made and I have been attempting to make is no less accurate.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 10:32 AM
During the riots - Trump made calls to Congresspeople to tell them that now was the time to reverse the election results.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/08/polit...riot/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/08/polit...riot/index.html
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 01:59 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 02:26 PM
That woman was killed while committing a crime.. End of discussion
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 02:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
That woman was killed while committing a crime.. End of discussion
Not commenting on this particular incident -- I think the officer was justified.
I would certainly not argue that it is ok to kill anybody who is committing a crime.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 02:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
That woman was killed while committing a crime.. End of discussion
Why is it now the end of discussion yet when other people get shot it gets discussed for months and results in massive protests?
And on point, I don't really disagree, though I don't think she was armed.
I took out some other comments I didn't really mean, so no sense getting off topic.
My feeling are this...I don't think she needed to be shot. I am also not all that bother by the fact.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 02:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
And on point, I don't really disagree, though I don't think she was armed. It would have been much better to grab her by the hair and pull her through the window until she got stuck, then slap her around for a while.
Uh - there's only one officer left there and 100 protestors... That's not really an option.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 05:25 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 05:27 PM
This is what happens when your actions defy the marching orders of their Führer.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 10:31 PM
Furher Pelosi, or Furher Schumer, only two I can think of.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/09/21 11:30 PM
j/c:
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 01:13 AM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
Furher Pelosi, or Furher Schumer, only two I can think of.
That's because your thinking ability is severely challenged.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 02:09 AM
who is this?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 02:38 AM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
who is this?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 01:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
That woman was killed while committing a crime.. End of discussion
Why is it now the end of discussion yet when other people get shot it gets discussed for months and results in massive protests?
And on point, I don't really disagree, though I don't think she was armed.
I took out some other comments I didn't really mean, so no sense getting off topic.
My feeling are this...I don't think she needed to be shot. I am also not all that bother by the fact.
It was more than justified. The officer saved lives. The life of a traitor and tyrant is not worth the lives of true Patriots.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 01:26 PM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
Furher Pelosi, or Furher Schumer, only two I can think of.
You Trump supporters can choose to go out and peacefully protest those two. But no, the tyrannical racists show up in force in DC and attempt a violent coup killing 5 including a cop defending our nations capitol. Pffft trump supporters. Traitors every single one them. If you continue to support trump now, you are a traitor.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 02:33 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 02:40 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 02:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
That woman was killed while committing a crime.. End of discussion
Why is it now the end of discussion yet when other people get shot it gets discussed for months and results in massive protests?
And on point, I don't really disagree, though I don't think she was armed.
I took out some other comments I didn't really mean, so no sense getting off topic.
My feeling are this...I don't think she needed to be shot. I am also not all that bother by the fact.
Not sure what you are referring too. But like I said, she was shot during the commission of a crime.. People that get shot during the commission of a crime don't get a lot of sympathy from me..
I don't want to see people getting shot or beat over the head with a fire extinguisher.(as was the case with the Capitol police officer)
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 03:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
That woman was killed while committing a crime.. End of discussion
Why is it now the end of discussion yet when other people get shot it gets discussed for months and results in massive protests?
And on point, I don't really disagree, though I don't think she was armed.
I took out some other comments I didn't really mean, so no sense getting off topic.
My feeling are this...I don't think she needed to be shot. I am also not all that bother by the fact.
Not sure what you are referring too. But like I said, she was shot during the commission of a crime.. People that get shot during the commission of a crime don't get a lot of sympathy from me..
I don't want to see people getting shot or beat over the head with a fire extinguisher.(as was the case with the Capitol police officer)
It's an attempt to say shooting the woman during the commission of a crime - while defending our countries elected officials/leaders - is the same as, for example, Black victims being shot in the back for not listening to a police officer, or having a police officer choke the life out of a black man for 8 minutes and 46 seconds while 4 other officers keep everyone at bay.
It's false equivalence at it's finest.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 03:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
That woman was killed while committing a crime.. End of discussion
Why is it now the end of discussion yet when other people get shot it gets discussed for months and results in massive protests?
And on point, I don't really disagree, though I don't think she was armed.
I took out some other comments I didn't really mean, so no sense getting off topic.
My feeling are this...I don't think she needed to be shot. I am also not all that bother by the fact.
Not sure what you are referring too. But like I said, she was shot during the commission of a crime.. People that get shot during the commission of a crime don't get a lot of sympathy from me..
I don't want to see people getting shot or beat over the head with a fire extinguisher.(as was the case with the Capitol police officer)
Obviously he thinks the capitol police officer shouldn’t defend our great nation and the law of the land. It’s hopeless with trump supporters. They’re still supporting his crap.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 06:03 PM
j/c...
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 08:15 PM
CRYSTAL
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/10/21 09:42 PM
Former Homeland Security head's advice following Capitol attack: "Buckle up"
CBSNews
Sun, January 10, 2021, 9:28 AM EST
An angry mob running roughshod and unchecked through the Capitol and onto the floor of the United States Senate – a scene as once unthinkable as airplanes crashing into buildings.
"They could have blown the building up," said Sen. Lindsey Graham. "They could have killed us all. They could have destroyed the government. We dodged a major bullet yesterday."
The barriers erected and manned by the Capitol Police were little more than speed bumps to the angry mob.
"They had these pathetic little barricades up beforehand, and what they should have done is had much more robust capabilities well in advance of the sixth of January," said former Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.
He told CBS News national security correspondent David Martin that the Capitol Police bear primary responsibility. "This strikes me as having been a real dereliction by the Capitol Police," he said.
But simple dereliction doesn't explain this statement by D.C. Police Chief Robert Contee: "There was no intelligence that suggested there would be a breach of the U.S. Capitol."
In fact, social media was full of "Storm the Capitol" rhetoric, including a tweet from President Trump, predicting it "will be wild."
And then, there was the rally outside the White House where the president and his ally Rudy Giuliani riled up the crowd. "Let's have trial by combat," Giuliani pronounced.
Chertoff said, "If you read the newspaper, you knew that there was a serious possibility of a threat against the Capitol. 'Let's go wild.' 'Bring your guns.' It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that suggests a serious threat to the integrity of the Capitol."
This was not a failure to connect the dots but a failure to believe the dots.
"Whether they underestimated the threat or believed – because they were Trump supporters – they weren't going to be a problem, that was a very serious error, and can never be allowed to be repeated," Chertoff said.
Martin asked, "Was this cultural bias? If it's Black Lives Matter there's a real threat of violence here, but if it's just almost all White Trump supporters, no problem?"
"Certainly, that's a legitimate question to ask," Chertoff replied. "They need to ask questions about whether there was conscious or unconscious bias, or even some, you know, political spin for some of the people in the Capitol Police."
Democratic Congressman James Clyburn offered a more sinister explanation: "Somebody on the inside of those buildings [was] complicit in this."
The need for answers is urgent. There are already social media calls for more attacks surrounding the Inauguration. The president is vowing, 'We will not be SILENCED!" And one of his supporters warned, "Many of us will return on January 19 carrying our weapons."
"Buckle up," Chertoff said. "I'm afraid we're going to see some very scary activity over the next weeks and months."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-homeland-security-heads-advice-142847347.html
CBSNews
Sun, January 10, 2021, 9:28 AM EST
An angry mob running roughshod and unchecked through the Capitol and onto the floor of the United States Senate – a scene as once unthinkable as airplanes crashing into buildings.
"They could have blown the building up," said Sen. Lindsey Graham. "They could have killed us all. They could have destroyed the government. We dodged a major bullet yesterday."
The barriers erected and manned by the Capitol Police were little more than speed bumps to the angry mob.
"They had these pathetic little barricades up beforehand, and what they should have done is had much more robust capabilities well in advance of the sixth of January," said former Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.
He told CBS News national security correspondent David Martin that the Capitol Police bear primary responsibility. "This strikes me as having been a real dereliction by the Capitol Police," he said.
But simple dereliction doesn't explain this statement by D.C. Police Chief Robert Contee: "There was no intelligence that suggested there would be a breach of the U.S. Capitol."
In fact, social media was full of "Storm the Capitol" rhetoric, including a tweet from President Trump, predicting it "will be wild."
And then, there was the rally outside the White House where the president and his ally Rudy Giuliani riled up the crowd. "Let's have trial by combat," Giuliani pronounced.
Chertoff said, "If you read the newspaper, you knew that there was a serious possibility of a threat against the Capitol. 'Let's go wild.' 'Bring your guns.' It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that suggests a serious threat to the integrity of the Capitol."
This was not a failure to connect the dots but a failure to believe the dots.
"Whether they underestimated the threat or believed – because they were Trump supporters – they weren't going to be a problem, that was a very serious error, and can never be allowed to be repeated," Chertoff said.
Martin asked, "Was this cultural bias? If it's Black Lives Matter there's a real threat of violence here, but if it's just almost all White Trump supporters, no problem?"
"Certainly, that's a legitimate question to ask," Chertoff replied. "They need to ask questions about whether there was conscious or unconscious bias, or even some, you know, political spin for some of the people in the Capitol Police."
Democratic Congressman James Clyburn offered a more sinister explanation: "Somebody on the inside of those buildings [was] complicit in this."
The need for answers is urgent. There are already social media calls for more attacks surrounding the Inauguration. The president is vowing, 'We will not be SILENCED!" And one of his supporters warned, "Many of us will return on January 19 carrying our weapons."
"Buckle up," Chertoff said. "I'm afraid we're going to see some very scary activity over the next weeks and months."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-homeland-security-heads-advice-142847347.html
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/11/21 05:27 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
All racists voted for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a racist.
If you believe there are no racists in the democratic party or who voted for Biden, you are painfully naive.
Yes this is true. There is a huge difference tho. And that is the Democratic Party did not nominate a well known proven over and over racist for POTUS. The vast majority of Democrats don’t openly support racism like trump supporters and the GOP leadership on Capitol Hill do.
you are correct. The dems are much more savvy about keeping their internal racism hidden... good on them.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/11/21 05:50 PM
Yeah, refusing to give them total power to undermine the nation isn't quite the same thing. But you do you.
You see, one party refuses to support putting them in power. The other party overwhelmingly supported putting one in power. But you just keep on rationalizing that it is somehow equivalent. It seems to be a trend.
You see, one party refuses to support putting them in power. The other party overwhelmingly supported putting one in power. But you just keep on rationalizing that it is somehow equivalent. It seems to be a trend.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/11/21 05:51 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Yeah, refusing to give them total power to undermine the nation isn't quite the same thing. But you do you.
You see, one party refuses to support putting them in power. The other party overwhelmingly supported putting one in power. But you just keep on rationalizing that it is somehow equivalent. It seems to be a trend.
You see, one party refuses to support putting them in power. The other party overwhelmingly supported putting one in power. But you just keep on rationalizing that it is somehow equivalent. It seems to be a trend.
I don't have to. I never said it was equal. This all started when I responded to a post implying that any and all racists are republicans. I don't see any need to take this further.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/11/21 06:06 PM
My only real problem was the "keeping their internal racism hidden". Refusing to give a voice and support to racism within your ranks isn't about "keeping it hidden". It's about refusing to give it a voice or giving it power.
Something we would have all been better off with if Republicans had followed that example.
Something we would have all been better off with if Republicans had followed that example.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/11/21 06:17 PM
"Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC"
By republican leader response NO ONE. Move along nothing to see here.... It disgusts me that more support his BS fraud claims than support kicking is butt to the curb. What is wrong with these morons. Defend the constitution you swore to defend!
All republicans are partially responsible for 4 years of keeping quite on utter BS.
By republican leader response NO ONE. Move along nothing to see here.... It disgusts me that more support his BS fraud claims than support kicking is butt to the curb. What is wrong with these morons. Defend the constitution you swore to defend!
All republicans are partially responsible for 4 years of keeping quite on utter BS.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/12/21 02:55 AM
Capitol riots: Chief says back-up denied over ‘optics’, as 15,000 troops requested ahead of ‘uprising’
Gino Spocchia and Justin Vallejo
Mon, January 11, 2021, 7:57 PM EST
(AP)
Ousted police chief Steve Sund said he requested help or back up six times before and during the Capitol riots but was denied over the “optics”.
In his first interview since resigning, Sund said he asked House and Senate security officials permission to request the National Guard be placed on standby but that House Sergeant at Arms Paul Irving wasn’t comfortable with the “optics” of formally declaring an emergency ahead of pro-Trump demonstrations.
The insight into what went wrong comes as the FBI warned an 'armed uprising' could take place in all 50 state capitols between now and the inauguration of Joe Biden if Congress moves to remove Donald Trump before 20 January.
As a result, the Pentagon has approved an additional 15,000 National Guard to be deployed or remain on stand by to for Inauguration Day.
Democrats, meanwhile, introduced an article of impeachment to the floor of the House of Representatives as lawmakers prepare to vote on a resolution asking the vice president, Mike Pence, to invoke the 25th Amendment and remove Donald Trump from office.
For his part, Pence reportedly had his first call with Trump since the riot and committed to working together until the end of his term, appearing to douse speculation he could invoke the 25th Amendment to remove the president from office.
With Republicans expected to resist the unanimous resolution, it is likely to return to the floor for a full vote on Tuesday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said. From that point, Pence will have 24 hours to respond, and if not the House will move to impeach the president.
In conversation with House Republicans, House GOP minority leader Kevin McCarthy reportedly said Trump bears some responsibility for the riot at the US Capitol. Even so, he said opposes impeachment but would be open to supporting a motion of censuring the president.
The work to remove Trump comes as his supporters planned to protest outside Twitter’s HQ in San Francisco, furious at the firm for suspending the outgoing president’s account.
Twenty people have now been arrested and await trial for their roles in the assault on Congress, while a Capitol Police officer who was videoed bravely confronting rioters inside the halls of Congress has been named as Eugene Goodman.
At least two Capitol police officers were suspended for taking selfies with rioters, while one was supposedly arrested for wearing a Maga hat and leading them around, according to Chair of the House subcommittee that oversees Capitol Police, congressman Tim Ryan.
https://news.yahoo.com/capitol-riots-live-twitter-hq-170539849.html
Gino Spocchia and Justin Vallejo
Mon, January 11, 2021, 7:57 PM EST
(AP)
Ousted police chief Steve Sund said he requested help or back up six times before and during the Capitol riots but was denied over the “optics”.
In his first interview since resigning, Sund said he asked House and Senate security officials permission to request the National Guard be placed on standby but that House Sergeant at Arms Paul Irving wasn’t comfortable with the “optics” of formally declaring an emergency ahead of pro-Trump demonstrations.
The insight into what went wrong comes as the FBI warned an 'armed uprising' could take place in all 50 state capitols between now and the inauguration of Joe Biden if Congress moves to remove Donald Trump before 20 January.
As a result, the Pentagon has approved an additional 15,000 National Guard to be deployed or remain on stand by to for Inauguration Day.
Democrats, meanwhile, introduced an article of impeachment to the floor of the House of Representatives as lawmakers prepare to vote on a resolution asking the vice president, Mike Pence, to invoke the 25th Amendment and remove Donald Trump from office.
For his part, Pence reportedly had his first call with Trump since the riot and committed to working together until the end of his term, appearing to douse speculation he could invoke the 25th Amendment to remove the president from office.
With Republicans expected to resist the unanimous resolution, it is likely to return to the floor for a full vote on Tuesday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said. From that point, Pence will have 24 hours to respond, and if not the House will move to impeach the president.
In conversation with House Republicans, House GOP minority leader Kevin McCarthy reportedly said Trump bears some responsibility for the riot at the US Capitol. Even so, he said opposes impeachment but would be open to supporting a motion of censuring the president.
The work to remove Trump comes as his supporters planned to protest outside Twitter’s HQ in San Francisco, furious at the firm for suspending the outgoing president’s account.
Twenty people have now been arrested and await trial for their roles in the assault on Congress, while a Capitol Police officer who was videoed bravely confronting rioters inside the halls of Congress has been named as Eugene Goodman.
At least two Capitol police officers were suspended for taking selfies with rioters, while one was supposedly arrested for wearing a Maga hat and leading them around, according to Chair of the House subcommittee that oversees Capitol Police, congressman Tim Ryan.
https://news.yahoo.com/capitol-riots-live-twitter-hq-170539849.html
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/12/21 09:15 AM
GOP lawmakers told Trump takes some responsibility for Capitol riot
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said on a Monday GOP conference call that President Trump told him he takes some responsibility for inciting the riots that took place at the Capitol on Wednesday, two GOP sources confirmed to The Hill.
The call marked the first time the entire caucus convened in the wake of the Capitol being breached, with multiple members voicing concerns about security in the future.
A sizable number of House Republican lawmakers have expressed strong frustration with the rhetoric Trump and his allies used — reiterating unsubstantiated claims the election was stolen and encouraging his supporters to march to the Capitol — before the violent insurrection, which left five dead.
Trump's calls for action on Wednesday came as lawmakers were set to affirm the 2020 election results, with a number of Republicans challenging the results in swing states that President-elect Joe Biden won.
“We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them, because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong,” Trump told a rally of supporters in Washington shortly before the Capitol siege.
While some GOP lawmakers who challenged the Electoral College results said they felt changes to certain election procedures were unconstitutional and warranted a debate, others have blasted the members who led the efforts, arguing that they furthered a false narrative and incited violence.
Congress ultimately rejected the 2020 challenges and officially marked Biden's win early Thursday morning.
Per multiple sources familiar with Monday's call, Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-Wash.) got into a heated exchange with first-year Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), raising concerns that Boebert risked lawmakers' safety by tweeting their location during the lockdown.
Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) also raised concerns about Boebert’s tweets.
Rep. Rodney Davis (Ill.), the top Republican on the House Administration Committee, briefed members on the latest safety measures being taken in the wake of the attack, telling them that the Capitol grounds will be more “hardened” for the foreseeable future, per one senior GOP source.
The House Administration Committee is also expected to launch staff and member listening sessions in an effort to hear concerns and make the complex more secure.
In the wake of Trump's actions leading up to the riot, Democrats earlier Monday introduced an article of impeachment against the president that is slated to be brought to the floor for a vote on Wednesday.
It remains unclear how many GOP lawmakers will join Democrats in voting in favor of impeaching the president for a second time.
Sources on the call said that McCarthy warned members not to go on TV and bash one another. He also reiterated the notion that the FBI has determined the rioters were pro-Trump and not members of the left-wing antifa movement as some Trump allies had suggested.
“McCarthy told all members on the call that he has been receiving FBI briefings and it is clear that antifa was not behind this," a source familiar with the call said. "It was in fact right-wing extremists and QAnon adherents, and he urged members to stop spreading false information to the contrary.”
Prior to the call, McCarthy sent a letter to his conference coming out against impeachment but weighing the possibility of a censure, a bipartisan commission to investigate the attack on the Capitol, reforms to the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and potential legislative action to promote voter confidence.
Republicans who voted in favor of challenging the Electoral College certification have come under ongoing fire, with corporate PACs and trade groups vowing to withhold campaign contributions.
“There was a lot of hypocrisy from several members of our leadership on this,” one GOP aide said on the loss of donations. “But there was also a lot of groveling that I assume is based in fear.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/53375...or-capitol-riot
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said on a Monday GOP conference call that President Trump told him he takes some responsibility for inciting the riots that took place at the Capitol on Wednesday, two GOP sources confirmed to The Hill.
The call marked the first time the entire caucus convened in the wake of the Capitol being breached, with multiple members voicing concerns about security in the future.
A sizable number of House Republican lawmakers have expressed strong frustration with the rhetoric Trump and his allies used — reiterating unsubstantiated claims the election was stolen and encouraging his supporters to march to the Capitol — before the violent insurrection, which left five dead.
Trump's calls for action on Wednesday came as lawmakers were set to affirm the 2020 election results, with a number of Republicans challenging the results in swing states that President-elect Joe Biden won.
“We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them, because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong,” Trump told a rally of supporters in Washington shortly before the Capitol siege.
While some GOP lawmakers who challenged the Electoral College results said they felt changes to certain election procedures were unconstitutional and warranted a debate, others have blasted the members who led the efforts, arguing that they furthered a false narrative and incited violence.
Congress ultimately rejected the 2020 challenges and officially marked Biden's win early Thursday morning.
Per multiple sources familiar with Monday's call, Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-Wash.) got into a heated exchange with first-year Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), raising concerns that Boebert risked lawmakers' safety by tweeting their location during the lockdown.
Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) also raised concerns about Boebert’s tweets.
Rep. Rodney Davis (Ill.), the top Republican on the House Administration Committee, briefed members on the latest safety measures being taken in the wake of the attack, telling them that the Capitol grounds will be more “hardened” for the foreseeable future, per one senior GOP source.
The House Administration Committee is also expected to launch staff and member listening sessions in an effort to hear concerns and make the complex more secure.
In the wake of Trump's actions leading up to the riot, Democrats earlier Monday introduced an article of impeachment against the president that is slated to be brought to the floor for a vote on Wednesday.
It remains unclear how many GOP lawmakers will join Democrats in voting in favor of impeaching the president for a second time.
Sources on the call said that McCarthy warned members not to go on TV and bash one another. He also reiterated the notion that the FBI has determined the rioters were pro-Trump and not members of the left-wing antifa movement as some Trump allies had suggested.
“McCarthy told all members on the call that he has been receiving FBI briefings and it is clear that antifa was not behind this," a source familiar with the call said. "It was in fact right-wing extremists and QAnon adherents, and he urged members to stop spreading false information to the contrary.”
Prior to the call, McCarthy sent a letter to his conference coming out against impeachment but weighing the possibility of a censure, a bipartisan commission to investigate the attack on the Capitol, reforms to the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and potential legislative action to promote voter confidence.
Republicans who voted in favor of challenging the Electoral College certification have come under ongoing fire, with corporate PACs and trade groups vowing to withhold campaign contributions.
“There was a lot of hypocrisy from several members of our leadership on this,” one GOP aide said on the loss of donations. “But there was also a lot of groveling that I assume is based in fear.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/53375...or-capitol-riot
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/12/21 02:35 PM
Raising my hand.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/12/21 02:47 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/12/21 03:30 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/13/21 02:55 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/13/21 02:21 PM
The message really starts at about 1 minute 43 seconds. More effort needs to be put into taking a neutral party step by step - right from November 3rd - to lay out why the protest was based on outright lies ... and what politicians said to fan flames and constantly talk of and encourage overturning a legitimate election.
Hawley has rapidly risen to the same despicable P.O.S status that Nunes, Cruz and Rudy have. May they rot in hell.
Hawley has rapidly risen to the same despicable P.O.S status that Nunes, Cruz and Rudy have. May they rot in hell.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/13/21 03:07 PM
j/c...
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/15/21 08:20 AM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/15/21 01:34 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
American "Patriots" funded by the Ruskies! Awesome!
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/15/21 01:49 PM
Or trump
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/15/21 02:16 PM
As has been discussed at length, something about all this stinks to high heaven. I'll be curious to see how the investigations play out.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/15/21 02:31 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Or trump
Honestly if you haven't been paying attention you might think that... and I don't mean that in a negative way, just how I see it. In reality Trump is really good at a couple things: lying and manipulating. Trump (as Cohen explained to anyone that wanted to listen) never actually does it himself - it's all manipulation and getting others to do his dirty work.
In the case of the Capitol fiasco and the occupation and the delaying of the certification .... he was setting Pence up to be the one to actually do something illegal and contrary to the constitution.
The money ? I doubt Trump is anywhere close to it.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/15/21 02:32 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
As has been discussed at length, something about all this stinks to high heaven. I'll be curious to see how the investigations play out.
Im sure It will get more and more outrageous and disgusting.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/15/21 02:36 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
As has been discussed at length, something about all this stinks to high heaven. I'll be curious to see how the investigations play out.
Im sure It will get more and more outrageous and disgusting.
Unlike 'The Call' and unlike the unprecedented communication with the Russians in 2016 - I think the FBI being involved and with the seriousness and visual impact of seeing insurgents with hand ties, the confederate flag etc invading the Capitol Building .... I think we have a chance that the real and complete facts/evidence will be fully exposed. . . eventually.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/16/21 07:01 PM
Welp, this is going to be fun
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/16/21 07:09 PM
Was he a member of ANTIFA?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/16/21 07:31 PM
j/c
Just curious. After the attempted coup at our nation's Capital Building by domestic terrorists, does MAGA now stand for My Ass Got Arrested?
Just curious. After the attempted coup at our nation's Capital Building by domestic terrorists, does MAGA now stand for My Ass Got Arrested?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/18/21 12:30 AM
Jc
I dunno if there’s even real conservatism in this country anymore. It seems now it’s just straight up right wing. Far right nut bags.
At least how I understood it, your typical conservative would be some white guy who only cared about limited government, lower taxes and making a crap ton of money. Didn’t really care much for social issues, but also didn’t much care about progressive policies so much as it didn’t mess up the cash flow.
I love(d) those kinds of dudes. Chop it up about stocks, mutual funds, why it’s a waste of time to put money in the savings account because it doesn’t grow much compared to the market, etc.
I know maybe...3 of those kinds of conservatives? Atleast fiscally.
Now? It’s just straight up right wingers. Conspiracy nuts, fake religious Bible thumpers, the “patriots” and “I don’t recognize my country anymore” kinda people, which far too often was just code for “there’s too many minorities in the area”.
Conservatives actually cared about the constitution?
Now? It’s almost like God. Ya know, how they love to to claim they follow the constitution, right up until you ask them what it is and they can’t explain it.
The constitution is now more of a suggestion with right wingers. The constitution is whatever Trump tells them it is. Because somehow, the states that trump lost violates the constitution, but the ones he won upheld it.
Those battleground states that changed the voting rules due to COVID that Biden won? Well, they violated the constitution, even though the state constitutional rules were changed by republicans.
But Texas and Florida? The Republican stronghold that ALSO changed the voting rules during the pandemic that trump won? Lol, well, that was perfectly legal and he won those fair and square.
But if you listen to the right wingers, including my new favorite person the QAnon shaman, COVID was a global conspiracy using COVID as an excuse to oust trump and usher in a new world socialist order led by the radical left and their pedophile masters.
Real conservatives use to laugh at those dudes and call them white trash. Unfortunately, I don’t know any real conservatives anymore. They seem to have disappeared into the upper middle class suburbs.
I dunno if there’s even real conservatism in this country anymore. It seems now it’s just straight up right wing. Far right nut bags.
At least how I understood it, your typical conservative would be some white guy who only cared about limited government, lower taxes and making a crap ton of money. Didn’t really care much for social issues, but also didn’t much care about progressive policies so much as it didn’t mess up the cash flow.
I love(d) those kinds of dudes. Chop it up about stocks, mutual funds, why it’s a waste of time to put money in the savings account because it doesn’t grow much compared to the market, etc.
I know maybe...3 of those kinds of conservatives? Atleast fiscally.
Now? It’s just straight up right wingers. Conspiracy nuts, fake religious Bible thumpers, the “patriots” and “I don’t recognize my country anymore” kinda people, which far too often was just code for “there’s too many minorities in the area”.
Conservatives actually cared about the constitution?
Now? It’s almost like God. Ya know, how they love to to claim they follow the constitution, right up until you ask them what it is and they can’t explain it.
The constitution is now more of a suggestion with right wingers. The constitution is whatever Trump tells them it is. Because somehow, the states that trump lost violates the constitution, but the ones he won upheld it.
Those battleground states that changed the voting rules due to COVID that Biden won? Well, they violated the constitution, even though the state constitutional rules were changed by republicans.
But Texas and Florida? The Republican stronghold that ALSO changed the voting rules during the pandemic that trump won? Lol, well, that was perfectly legal and he won those fair and square.
But if you listen to the right wingers, including my new favorite person the QAnon shaman, COVID was a global conspiracy using COVID as an excuse to oust trump and usher in a new world socialist order led by the radical left and their pedophile masters.
Real conservatives use to laugh at those dudes and call them white trash. Unfortunately, I don’t know any real conservatives anymore. They seem to have disappeared into the upper middle class suburbs.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/18/21 02:32 PM
'I’m facing a prison sentence': US Capitol rioters plead with Trump for pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/18/21 03:28 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
'I’m facing a prison sentence': US Capitol rioters plead with Trump for pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
If they have money - they apparently can buy a Pardon.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administrat...usands-to-lobby
Democracy at it's finest.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 01:31 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
'I’m facing a prison sentence': US Capitol rioters plead with Trump for pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
If Trump Pardons any of these folks, IMO, it's a clear as day that Trump is their leader and is ultimately responsible for the actions on Jan 6...
That might be the end for just enough republican senators to push them over the edge when voting for conviction for trump.. It should also make it clear during a potential criminal charge against for crimes against the USA.
So for me, him giving even one of them a pardon is like a confession.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 02:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
'I’m facing a prison sentence': US Capitol rioters plead with Trump for pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
If Trump Pardons any of these folks, IMO, it's a clear as day that Trump is their leader and is ultimately responsible for the actions on Jan 6...
That might be the end for just enough republican senators to push them over the edge when voting for conviction for trump.. It should also make it clear during a potential criminal charge against for crimes against the USA.
So for me, him giving even one of them a pardon is like a confession.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Hey man, do I need to prove that, or is that OK?
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 02:22 PM
I think I resemble that version of conservativism, although fiscally I'm concerned with the perpetuated wealth gap and money grabbing I see from corporate welfare, which I can't help but constantly notice as a DoD employee.
I think the biggest problem is the volume of voices. It's hard to out-shout those who are more radicalized.
I think the biggest problem is the volume of voices. It's hard to out-shout those who are more radicalized.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 02:28 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
I think I resemble that version of conservativism, although fiscally I'm concerned with the perpetuated wealth gap and money grabbing I see from corporate welfare, which I can't help but constantly notice as a DoD employee.
I think the biggest problem is the volume of voices. It's hard to out-shout those who are more radicalized.
I think the biggest problem is the volume of voices. It's hard to out-shout those who are more radicalized.
Volume could also mean the number of voices.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 02:44 PM
It could. That's not really germane to my point, though, that some of those Swish is referring to still exist.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 03:51 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
'I’m facing a prison sentence': US Capitol rioters plead with Trump for pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/16/us-capitol-rioters-donald-trump-pardons
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 04:54 PM
Another thing that I find comical about all of this. More odd than comical and ironic would probably be the best description.
Many blame Trump for the insurrection at the Capital Building claiming that over the past five years Trump has advocated hate and violence. And that he purposefully riled these folks up, worked the crowd to a frenzy and sent them to the Capital. They claim that means the responsibility of what happened there falls directly on trump.
Now most every Republican politicians claims that's just nonsense. Suddenly they claim everyone is responsible for their own actions and it is the fault of those who stormed the Capital, not Trump. I'm sure you would get that same response from most Republicans on this board.
But do you know what most of the people that have been videoed storming the building are saying? "We were doing what Trump told us to do."
Words have consequences. That's why there is a crime called inciting a riot. That's why you can't yell fire in a theater or bomb on an airplane.
I'll let the legal experts sort out what this was. But it's not so hard to figure out. You're not going to get off the hook for yelling fire in a crowded theater by claiming it's your right to free speech. There's a big difference and anyone with a brain knows it. No matter what they say to the contrary.
Many blame Trump for the insurrection at the Capital Building claiming that over the past five years Trump has advocated hate and violence. And that he purposefully riled these folks up, worked the crowd to a frenzy and sent them to the Capital. They claim that means the responsibility of what happened there falls directly on trump.
Now most every Republican politicians claims that's just nonsense. Suddenly they claim everyone is responsible for their own actions and it is the fault of those who stormed the Capital, not Trump. I'm sure you would get that same response from most Republicans on this board.
But do you know what most of the people that have been videoed storming the building are saying? "We were doing what Trump told us to do."
Words have consequences. That's why there is a crime called inciting a riot. That's why you can't yell fire in a theater or bomb on an airplane.
I'll let the legal experts sort out what this was. But it's not so hard to figure out. You're not going to get off the hook for yelling fire in a crowded theater by claiming it's your right to free speech. There's a big difference and anyone with a brain knows it. No matter what they say to the contrary.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 05:04 PM
Not sure you asked, but I'll give my opinion anyway.
We have laws against inciting riots, and we have laws against participating in them. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Trump incited, and his minions participated. It's tougher to prove the inciting, but get as many guilty verdicts as possible.
We have laws against inciting riots, and we have laws against participating in them. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Trump incited, and his minions participated. It's tougher to prove the inciting, but get as many guilty verdicts as possible.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 05:12 PM
I agree with you. Each played their own role and as such should be held accountable for the role they played. I do however believe that inciting people to overthrow our election process which would be an attempt to install an illegitimate government would certainly rise to crimes above the level of inciting a riot.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 05:17 PM
I’ll give QAnon this: their dope with the names.
So disappointed in my fellow stoners. How do we not have a 420 shaman?
The QAnon shaman just rolls off the tongue so fluidly.
So disappointed in my fellow stoners. How do we not have a 420 shaman?
The QAnon shaman just rolls off the tongue so fluidly.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 05:22 PM
What are you talking about 420 shaman? We've had Dr. Feelgood since the 70s.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 05:38 PM
j/c...
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 05:46 PM
I never expected to hear something that resembled anything close to the truth about what happened at the Capital building uttered from the lips of Mitch McConnell. This may be a beginning sign that the Republican party is trying to heavily distance itself from the Cult of Trump.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 05:52 PM
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 05:59 PM
This is a good move, IMO (diverting resources to combat domestic terrorism).
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 06:10 PM
I just wanted to post this before we get the right wing rantings from the usual suspects here. This was not something brought on by the "liberals". This isn't a case of, "The liberals are scared". So before they post such stupidity, I would like to point out that it was the Trump administrations appointees themselves that investigated and came to the conclusion that it was white supremacist groups are the biggest threat of terrorist acts and since 2018 have conducted more lethal attacks in the US than any other domestic extremist movement.
White supremacists remain deadliest US terror threat, Homeland Security report says
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/politics/...ment/index.html
White supremacists remain deadliest US terror threat, Homeland Security report says
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/politics/...ment/index.html
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 06:15 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I never expected to hear something that resembled anything close to the truth about what happened at the Capital building uttered from the lips of Mitch McConnell. This may be a beginning sign that the Republican party is trying to heavily distance itself from the Cult of Trump.
I agree. I will qualify that he waited until the day before the guy leaves office, and after he was banned from Twitter...but, yeah, doing it at all is a step in the right direction.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 06:23 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
This is a good move, IMO (diverting resources to combat domestic terrorism).
It is as long as they enforce no matter the group.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 06:40 PM
I agree as long as we put the most effort on the biggest problem. As long as we understand who it is Trump's appointed head of Homeland Security has shown to be where the biggest problem is. As long as we stay aware of which wing of domestic terrorism it is that has inflicted the most deaths in America since 2018.
White supremacists remain deadliest US terror threat, Homeland Security report says
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/politics/...ment/index.html
White supremacists remain deadliest US terror threat, Homeland Security report says
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/politics/...ment/index.html
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 07:16 PM
If that is what they say, I have no real reason to not believe it at this point.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 07:58 PM
"The mob was fed lies," McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, said on the Senate floor. "They were provoked by the President and other powerful people."
https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/573621992.html
Yeah - seems like Moscow Mitch wants to stick the dagger in.
https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/573621992.html
Yeah - seems like Moscow Mitch wants to stick the dagger in.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 07:59 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I never expected to hear something that resembled anything close to the truth about what happened at the Capital building uttered from the lips of Mitch McConnell. This may be a beginning sign that the Republican party is trying to heavily distance itself from the Cult of Trump.
I think that is exactly what this is..
Typically people who work in an administration, when that administration is done, walk into pretty cushy jobs either in media, lobbying, or some other area.. Trump folks are going to have a hard time finding a good gig to go to..
Many of those who are still in politics are doing what they can to create distance for themselves now and for their post-political future..
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 08:03 PM
I\
I nominate Snoop Dog!
Originally Posted By: Swish
I’ll give QAnon this: their dope with the names.
So disappointed in my fellow stoners. How do we not have a 420 shaman?
The QAnon shaman just rolls off the tongue so fluidly.
So disappointed in my fellow stoners. How do we not have a 420 shaman?
The QAnon shaman just rolls off the tongue so fluidly.
I nominate Snoop Dog!
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 08:05 PM
I think he's too busy selling home security systems right now.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 08:10 PM
And drinking his Corona.
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/19/21 08:13 PM
I can hear the job interview now......
Interviewer; "I see there is a four year gap in your work history. You didn't happen to work for the Trump administration did you?"
Applicant; "Certainly not! I was in prison I swear!"
Interviewer; "I see there is a four year gap in your work history. You didn't happen to work for the Trump administration did you?"
Applicant; "Certainly not! I was in prison I swear!"
Re: Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC? - 01/25/21 05:24 PM
I didn't know where to post this story about Dominion taking Rudy to court and suing his ass.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-...claims-n1255511
But it seem appropriate and fitting given Rudy works for Trump and Trump uses this sort of action to strong arm and intimidate people 'routinely' .
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-...claims-n1255511
But it seem appropriate and fitting given Rudy works for Trump and Trump uses this sort of action to strong arm and intimidate people 'routinely' .