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Posted By: RocketOptimist Unity Without Accountability? - 01/10/21 10:27 AM
Since the insurrection on Wednesday lead by qultists, I've heard a ton of different representatives and senators from the right talk about how important unity is right now.

Unity without accountability sounds reactionary and just sweeping all the piling feces underneath the rug. Let's step back a little bit.

In the other threads, I've read many of you asking "how did this happen? How and why did police just let people walk right in?"

Well, let's start at what surrounded the capitol before the qultists showed up.

Here was the "main" entrance point of the insurrection attempt by the qultists.



Here is what the detail was to protect the Lincoln Memorial.



This article details how the Sergeant at Arms and Capitol Police said this would not be a huge deal, and completely downplayed concerns of Maxine Waters as she was relyaed information from now deplatformed Parler about a plan to storm the Capitol on the 6th. Sund, head of the Capitol Police, expected this to be a first amendment protest while disregarding the concerns about storming the Capitol.

In a business insider article I cannot post here, due to the white supremacists that hurled awful racial slurs at the officers, Black officers that work for the Capitol police found these same warnings in days prior. They were shrugged off by their superiors.

Someone dropped the ball, either knowingly or unknowingly, and there needs to be an entire review. I know the Seargant at Arms and Sund will be gone within days, but a full review needs to be done to expose elements of white supremacy.

For years, a contingent of us have tried explaining that the FBI has evidence of white supremacist leanings and neonazi sympathizers inside of law enforcement. Check some articles from first-hand accounts of what happened when the qultists descended upon the capitol. Many stepped out of the way, took selfies,and flashed their badges at officers protecting the Capitol.

--------------------

Lots of the same individuals preaching unity also claim to let David Dennison/Individual-1/Fascist in Chief ride out the last days of his term.

For the last four years, multiple people on this web address have shown multiple examples of fascism from the man who incited the crowd to the Capitol.

From individuals who claim to love law and order soo much, why aren't more on board with using the 25th and/or Impeachment? Is it some hope for some redemption angle for a 2024 run of Make America Fascist Again? Impeachment prevents the fascist from trying to undo our democratic republic as he just tried this past week.
-------------------

So what say you? Do we need unity without accountability?
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/10/21 02:06 PM
I don't really care if Trump rides out the last few days or not. I just want all the names of those who still support him recorded on 'the list'. We will need that for the trials. wink

Unity is important, but ending the delusion so many are mentally trapped in first is more important. We should try to rescue as many as we can from themselves before write them all off. I unfortunately think most of them would rather die than see reality.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/10/21 02:15 PM
Unity and accountability sounds like a pretty good rally cry for any sane person. Transparency regarding all the false election fraud claims - transparency regarding the days and communications leading up to the 6th - transparency regarding the sequence and communications during that day.

If there are officers sworn to serve and protect that were active in aiding and abetting the insurgency - then they need to be identified and they need to now be working for any law enforcement ever again. If there were politicians with a darker agenda than just occupancy and protest they need to be identified.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/10/21 02:20 PM
Calls for unity while downplaying or just overlooking the crimes committed on the 6th and by the POTUS is just what it sounds like, lip service.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/10/21 02:22 PM
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/10/21 02:59 PM
And how the hell are we supposed to have unity with them thinking like this? smh

Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/10/21 03:29 PM
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 12:06 AM
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 12:20 AM
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 12:24 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

Honestly I'd only be interested in that if the Republicans gave it support too .... and if they Republicans gave it support wouldn't it be better to simply remove him through the 25th amendment?

Not interested in a show. Just act with cross party support, or don't and just investigate and find the truth of political influence once Joe is in office.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 12:28 AM
Why impeach a president that has only 10 days or so left?

What does the president have on congress?
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 12:29 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Why impeach a president that has only 10 days or so left?

What does the president have on congress?


To get satisfaction for what they have tried to do the last 4 years ... SMH
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 12:33 AM
Even if it happens after he leaves the oval, a conviction would stop him from ever holding a fed office again. It would also set a precedent that this sort of behavior is not going to go unpunished. If Trump gets away with this clean, what stops the next guy? Imagine if Obama/Biden organized the BLM and other leftie groups nationally with numbers in the millions and showed up at the capitol, heavily armed, to overthrow the duly elected government and make the US a socialist communist state... would you just let them go?
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 12:42 AM
The 25th Amendment would be much better for this country (in terms of preventing division -- and also in terms of securing the nation for the next 10 days) than impeachment.

Unfortunately, congresspeople can only control one of these processes.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 11:16 AM
Quote:
Unity Without Accountability?


Impossible.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 11:24 AM
My vote is to just forget all this crap and enjoy the Browns win.

Go Browns!
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 12:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
My vote is to just forget all this crap and enjoy the Browns win.

Go Browns!


I hear you. trump supporters want to forget the crap trump laid down and move forward without holding him accountable. We get it. Use any excuse.

Go Browns!
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 01:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
My vote is to just forget all this crap and enjoy the Browns win.

Go Browns!


I mean - 5 people got killed by politicians -- but my team won a sport!
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 02:57 PM
Forget it
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 03:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
My vote is to just forget all this crap and enjoy the Browns win.

Go Browns!


Then you might want to avoid PP for the next two weeks while we impeach this man AGAIN.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 03:59 PM

Justice
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 04:25 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
My vote is to just forget all this crap and enjoy the Browns win.

Go Browns!


Then you might want to avoid PP for the next two weeks while we impeach this man AGAIN.


And this time the Senate will have a trial. And trump will be found guilty. Unless pence steps up and does his duty and invoke the 25th first.
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 04:39 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral


And this time the Senate will have a trial. And trump will be found guilty. Unless pence steps up and does his duty and invoke the 25th first.






Blunt: Trump Impeachment ‘Clearly Is Not Going to Happen’

10 Jan 2021

Senator Roy Blunt (R-MO), chairman of the Senate Republican Policy Committee, said Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation” that removing Trump from office with impeachment is “clearly is not going to happen.”

Discussing the riots, anchor Margaret Brennan said, “Are Republican leaders going to hold him accountable in any way for it?”

Blunt said, “I think the country is is the right to hold presidents accountable. The president should be very careful over the next 10 days is that his behavior is what you would expect from the leader of the greatest country in the world. My personal view is that the president touched the hot stove on Wednesday and is unlikely to touch it again.”

He continued, “I did, the day Senator Hawley announced he would be contesting those electoral votes, announced that I would not be. When Senator Cruz said he had a plan to put back in place a commission like the one formed in 1877, I said that wouldn’t happen. I wasn’t interested then or now in spending a lot of time on things that can’t happen just like the impeachment of the president to remove him from office clearly is not going to happen between now and the last day he is in office.”

He added, “As Nancy Pelosi just said and Jim Clyburn said earlier today, this is more

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2021/01/10/blunt-trump-impeachment-clearly-is-not-going-to-happen/
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 04:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
My vote is to just forget all this crap and enjoy the Browns win.

Go Browns!


I mean - 5 people got killed by politicians -- but my team won a sport!


Hey, over 375,000 people and counting have died. We're up to over 4000 a day dying while trump hasn't said a word about it weeks. Yet they still support him. Why would you think 5 more would make a difference?
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 04:50 PM
The only real part of that anyone with a brain could agree with is that he won't be impeached by the senate. Just like everything else, Mitch simply won't bring it to the floor. He will stall it. The only way it even gets heard would be after Biden is sworn in as president.

As for the rest of that BS, it's actually the duty of the senate to hear and debate the articles of impeachment. They depend on people like you who have no clue what the constitutions says to spread their lies.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 04:53 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Hey, over 375,000 people and counting have died. We're up to over 4000 a day dying while trump hasn't said a word about it weeks. Yet they still support him. Why would you think 5 more would make a difference?


I don't... honestly...
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 04:54 PM
Originally Posted By: fishtheice




Blunt said, “I think the country is is the right to hold presidents accountable. The president should be very careful over the next 10 days is that his behavior is what you would expect from the leader of the greatest country in the world. My personal view is that the president touched the hot stove on Wednesday and is unlikely to touch it again.”

He continued, “I did, the day Senator Hawley announced he would be contesting those electoral votes, announced that I would not be. When Senator Cruz said he had a plan to put back in place a commission like the one formed in 1877, I said that wouldn’t happen. I wasn’t interested then or now in spending a lot of time on things that can’t happen just like the impeachment of the president to remove him from office clearly is not going to happen between now and the last day he is in office.”


So for 4 years he acts like a douche, lowers America's standing everywhere in the world other than countries that have dictators that Trump kowtowed to ... but he needs to behave himself for the last 10 days??? rofl Hilarious.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/...onavirus-badly/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...0-b1449879.html

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countri...ountries-report

And all those reports were from BEFORE the Trump incited occupation of the Capitol Building. LOL.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 04:55 PM
Don't worry -- I think now Trump has finally learned his lesson... This is the moment when he becomes presidential.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 04:58 PM
Pretty sure 'peen's post was to be taken with humor.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:04 PM
As far as the two pictures you posted..

The one at the Capitol was at the very beginning of a protest which was expected to be peaceful.

The one at the Lincoln Memorial was like day 5 or 6 of violent protests (nationwide) that had seen buildings burned, looted, and monuments defaced/destroyed.

It's not hard to identify why security had escalated. I have read this intellectual dishonesty many times from CNN and others. Comparing the governments response to one 6 hour event to an aggregate of the governments response to everything that happened during BLM protests in dozens of cities that raged on over weeks of time and did immeasurable damage to people, property, and businesses.

Go back and read up on the May 29 BLM protests in DC, the first day. The only injuries were to some police officers, the only action against the protesters was a little pepper spray and the police force was minimal. As the protests escalated, the police response escalated.

I'm not condoning or condemning anything the police did in either situation, nor am I condoning what happened at the Capitol or any of the violence or destruction from the BLM protests... but had the Trump protests raged on for days, don't you think the police response would have escalated as well?

What happened at the Capitol is unfortunate, anybody who breached the inside should be tracked down and punished. There should be an investigation into why officers moved barricades, opened doors, stood aside, and took selfies with the protesters.. horrible actions by all of them and people should be punished at the highest levels if the officers were directed to act this way.

At least you used the right word "insurrection" and not a "coup" as I've seen it called. An insurrection is a violent uprising, which I think this was.. a "coup", this was not. A coup is about taking power from or overthrowing the government. If you are having a coup, you don't seize one of the 3 main buildings of the government (Whitehouse, Capitol, Pentagon) then walk around for a few hours taking selfies and then voluntarily leave.. you set up a camp, you make demands, you hold hostages.. this wasn't a coup.

Removing him from office a week before he would be gone anyway has pros and cons and I don't really care one way or the other. I will be glad when he's gone, as much as I dislike Joe Biden.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:05 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Even if it happens after he leaves the oval, a conviction would stop him from ever holding a fed office again.



This is the biggy. With Mitch breaking with Trump so publicly during the counting amid the backdrop of Trump doing so poorly in the popular vote, I would hope his folk could muster the tiny bit of courage to be opportunistic and see this through. The Republican party is a mess in large part due to Trump, and putting a definitive end on his political career could go a long way to helping the party recover.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:08 PM
Originally Posted By: fishtheice
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral


And this time the Senate will have a trial. And trump will be found guilty. Unless pence steps up and does his duty and invoke the 25th first.






Blunt: Trump Impeachment ‘Clearly Is Not Going to Happen’

10 Jan 2021

Senator Roy Blunt (R-MO), chairman of the Senate Republican Policy Committee, said Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation” that removing Trump from office with impeachment is “clearly is not going to happen.”

Discussing the riots, anchor Margaret Brennan said, “Are Republican leaders going to hold him accountable in any way for it?”

Blunt said, “I think the country is is the right to hold presidents accountable. The president should be very careful over the next 10 days is that his behavior is what you would expect from the leader of the greatest country in the world. My personal view is that the president touched the hot stove on Wednesday and is unlikely to touch it again.”

He continued, “I did, the day Senator Hawley announced he would be contesting those electoral votes, announced that I would not be. When Senator Cruz said he had a plan to put back in place a commission like the one formed in 1877, I said that wouldn’t happen. I wasn’t interested then or now in spending a lot of time on things that can’t happen just like the impeachment of the president to remove him from office clearly is not going to happen between now and the last day he is in office.”

He added, “As Nancy Pelosi just said and Jim Clyburn said earlier today, this is more

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2021/01/10/blunt-trump-impeachment-clearly-is-not-going-to-happen/


The earliest a senate impeachment trial can possibly start is Jan 20th. Guess who has control of the senate Jan 20th? Also Pelosi can hold the articles until the 20th. The main thing is making sure trump never holds public office again.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:08 PM
I have seen many Trump supporters on Twitter, big names with big followings, talking about splitting from Republican party and forming "The Patriot Party".. the problem with that is that the whole Trump phenomenon is built on his personality, it's not built on a political platform with strongly held beliefs.. if he goes away, the party has nothing left to unify it.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:15 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I have seen many Trump supporters on Twitter, big names with big followings, talking about splitting from Republican party and forming "The Patriot Party".. the problem with that is that the whole Trump phenomenon is built on his personality, it's not built on a political platform with strongly held beliefs.. if he goes away, the party has nothing left to unify it.


I thought they already chose their party? They are Confederates. That’s the flag they fly under. The flag of traitors. The enemy of the USA. They attacked US in our capitol. If it’s war they want it’s war they’ll get.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:19 PM
If it was war they wanted, they would have kept the Capitol once they gained control of it.

they are very cult-like and they have chosen as their leader a loud mouth entitled billionaire from NY because he strokes their nostalgic ego and they stroke his.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:37 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I have seen many Trump supporters on Twitter, big names with big followings, talking about splitting from Republican party and forming "The Patriot Party".. the problem with that is that the whole Trump phenomenon is built on his personality, it's not built on a political platform with strongly held beliefs.. if he goes away, the party has nothing left to unify it.


That would be the best thing to happen to the Republican party. Removing the fringe element that seems to have the party by the ear.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:40 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
If it was war they wanted, they would have kept the Capitol once they gained control of it.

they are very cult-like and they have chosen as their leader a loud mouth entitled billionaire from NY because he strokes their nostalgic ego and they stroke his.


Cult like? War started. Many of these guys where in full battle gear. They came for a battle, and started a mini civil war now. But they never had control of the Capitol or they’d taken hostages or killed more. This was an army ready for battle while trump stalled our cavalrymen from running to the rescue. Deplorable if not criminal. Despicable trump and his supporters. This is war. Arm yourselves. Trump supporters are coming for you and your families.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:45 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
If it was war they wanted, they would have kept the Capitol once they gained control of it.

they are very cult-like and they have chosen as their leader a loud mouth entitled billionaire from NY because he strokes their nostalgic ego and they stroke his.


I don't think everybody in that crowd wanted war (the vast majority were probably peaceful -- and some planned to be peaceful and then got caught up in violence).

But there was definitely a contingent that was looking to kill senators -- they were armed, some were organized (some were not) -- and they would have continued had they had the chance.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:47 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I have seen many Trump supporters on Twitter, big names with big followings, talking about splitting from Republican party and forming "The Patriot Party".. the problem with that is that the whole Trump phenomenon is built on his personality, it's not built on a political platform with strongly held beliefs.. if he goes away, the party has nothing left to unify it.


That would be the best thing to happen to the Republican party. Removing the fringe element that seems to have the party by the ear.


A fringe element that has mobilized an army to fight against the USA? Besides, 25% of America is not a fringe element.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:49 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I have seen many Trump supporters on Twitter, big names with big followings, talking about splitting from Republican party and forming "The Patriot Party".. the problem with that is that the whole Trump phenomenon is built on his personality, it's not built on a political platform with strongly held beliefs.. if he goes away, the party has nothing left to unify it.


That would be the best thing to happen to the Republican party. Removing the fringe element that seems to have the party by the ear.


A fringe element that has mobilized an army to fight against the USA? Besides, 25% of America is not a fringe element.


You're no better than the buffoons that argue all Democrats are Socialists.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:54 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
If it was war they wanted, they would have kept the Capitol once they gained control of it.

they are very cult-like and they have chosen as their leader a loud mouth entitled billionaire from NY because he strokes their nostalgic ego and they stroke his.


Cult like? War started. Many of these guys where in full battle gear. They came for a battle, and started a mini civil war now. But they never had control of the Capitol or they’d taken hostages or killed more. This was an army ready for battle while trump stalled our cavalrymen from running to the rescue. Deplorable if not criminal. Despicable trump and his supporters. This is war. Arm yourselves. Trump supporters are coming for you and your families.

Now I know who is behind the Capt. Andrew Luck Twitter account who wrote all of those letters to his mom.

Your entire post is embellished BS.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 05:57 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I have seen many Trump supporters on Twitter, big names with big followings, talking about splitting from Republican party and forming "The Patriot Party".. the problem with that is that the whole Trump phenomenon is built on his personality, it's not built on a political platform with strongly held beliefs.. if he goes away, the party has nothing left to unify it.


That would be the best thing to happen to the Republican party. Removing the fringe element that seems to have the party by the ear.


A fringe element that has mobilized an army to fight against the USA? Besides, 25% of America is not a fringe element.


You're no better than the buffoons that argue all Democrats are Socialists.


LOL...ok if someone still supports trump after what all we’ve seen happen in DC now. After that...What should they be considered? I don’t care who you voted for but In my world if you still support trump after the attack on the capitol you are a traitor. Call me whatever you want. I don’t care.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 06:00 PM
That depends on who you're talking about. If you think there weren't elements of the crowd that stormed the Capital that didn't have a takeover in mind, or who didn't have the desire to kill our elected officials, I believe you are sadly mistaken. They even told us that.

The problem was that Trump's words caused many people that did not have such intent in their hearts to join in. As such it ended up being more of a rag tag bunch of half cocked militants without direction and guidance. At that point it created nothing but chaos.

There's a huge difference in what the intent was verses having the strategy in place to pull it off.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 06:07 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I have seen many Trump supporters on Twitter, big names with big followings, talking about splitting from Republican party and forming "The Patriot Party".. the problem with that is that the whole Trump phenomenon is built on his personality, it's not built on a political platform with strongly held beliefs.. if he goes away, the party has nothing left to unify it.


That would be the best thing to happen to the Republican party. Removing the fringe element that seems to have the party by the ear.


A fringe element that has mobilized an army to fight against the USA? Besides, 25% of America is not a fringe element.


You're no better than the buffoons that argue all Democrats are Socialists.


LOL...ok if someone still supports trump after what all we’ve seen happen in DC now. After that...What should they be considered? I don’t care who you voted for but In my world if you still support trump after the attack on the capitol you are a traitor. Call me whatever you want. I don’t care.
You're spot on on that part. I was responding to the 25% part. The portion that stormed the Capitol or supported the coup make up a VERY small minority of Trump supporters.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 06:08 PM
Quote:
That depends on who you're talking about. If you think there weren't elements of the crowd that stormed the Capital that didn't have a takeover in mind, or who didn't have the desire to kill our elected officials, I believe you are sadly mistaken.

Then why did those who had that conviction just leave? I mean, I understand why those who just got caught up in the moment left once the rush wore off and they realized what they were actually doing..

But the ones who were there in a planned fashion to kill and take control.. why did they leave? How many of them went down for the cause? How many shots were exchanged between them and police? What efforts were made to find the politicians hiding in the building?
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 06:18 PM
Sometimes you don't go making war when so many who believe as you do get in the line of fire. Even people with that intent aren't going to take out what they see as people who agree with them yet aren't joining them in an insurrection.

The friendly fire casualties would have been massive. Nobody with a brain would do that and think it wouldn't harm their own cause beyond repair.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 06:29 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I have seen many Trump supporters on Twitter, big names with big followings, talking about splitting from Republican party and forming "The Patriot Party".. the problem with that is that the whole Trump phenomenon is built on his personality, it's not built on a political platform with strongly held beliefs.. if he goes away, the party has nothing left to unify it.


That would be the best thing to happen to the Republican party. Removing the fringe element that seems to have the party by the ear.


A fringe element that has mobilized an army to fight against the USA? Besides, 25% of America is not a fringe element.


You're no better than the buffoons that argue all Democrats are Socialists.


LOL...ok if someone still supports trump after what all we’ve seen happen in DC now. After that...What should they be considered? I don’t care who you voted for but In my world if you still support trump after the attack on the capitol you are a traitor. Call me whatever you want. I don’t care.
You're spot on on that part. I was responding to the 25% part. The portion that stormed the Capitol or supported the coup make up a VERY small minority of Trump supporters.



Looks like my 25% is the low end of matrix for republicans and trump supporters alike.




Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 07:07 PM
It also looks like it's pretty much worthless. Do you not see the footnote at the bottom?
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 07:32 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
It also looks like it's pretty much worthless. Do you not see the footnote at the bottom?


60% to 50% is 3-4 standard deviations?
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 07:38 PM
They amount of people that they poll can be as little as 836 people.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 07:43 PM
People tend to share information that best represents their views. On both sides. It's more about perception than accuracy.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 07:49 PM
j/c

In 1924 Hitler attempted a coup of the German government. By their standards, he was treated with a light sentence of five years of which he only served one year of. During his time in prison, he wrote Mein Kampf.

The rest is history as they say.

In 2021 we have a president who invoked his followers and incited them to the point of attempting coup. The answer of his political party? "We must move on".
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 07:54 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
They amount of people that they poll can be as little as 836 people.


Yes - that is how statistics works?

If you have a fair sample, the polling error on 836 people is sqrt(836)/836 = 0.034 -- so the poll is accurate to about 3.4%.

The key, of course, is the phrase "fair sample" -- but this is a systematic error that is not dependent on the number of people that you poll, but is based on your ability to find the "average American". Increasing your sample size does nothing to help with this -- and repeated studies suggest that this error also tends to be in the 3-4% level in individual polls.

Long story short -- 836 people is plenty to reduce the statistical error below the level of the systematic error. After ~1000 people, adding more people doesn't necessarily make the poll any better.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 07:56 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
It also looks like it's pretty much worthless. Do you not see the footnote at the bottom?
I fixed that. tongue
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 07:58 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
j/c

In 1924 Hitler attempted a coup of the German government. By their standards, he was treated with a light sentence of five years of which he only served one year of. During his time in prison, he wrote Mein Kampf.

The rest is history as they say.

In 2021 we have a president who invoked his followers and incited them to the point of attempting coup. The answer of his political party? "We must move on".

Hitler had 2000 men and planned to seize the city and keep it.

This coup seized the Capitol and gave it back and went home.

But congrats on invoking Hitler.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:05 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
j/c

In 1924 Hitler attempted a coup of the German government. By their standards, he was treated with a light sentence of five years of which he only served one year of. During his time in prison, he wrote Mein Kampf.

The rest is history as they say.

In 2021 we have a president who invoked his followers and incited them to the point of attempting coup. The answer of his political party? "We must move on".

Hitler had 2000 men and planned to seize the city and keep it.

This coup seized the Capitol and gave it back and went home.

But congrats on invoking Hitler.


How is that very different?

+ Both events started when the leader of the group (Hitler/Trump) held a rally and then told the protestors to march on a government building.

+ There were more than 2000 people who marched on the capitol, there were 2000 people involved in the Beer Hall Putsch.

+ Several hundred are thought to have entered the capitol, and police are noting several hundred violent protestors.

+ Both events lasted about 4 hours.

+ Both events ended when a significant larger defensive force moved in and pushed out the remaining insurgents.

+ The vast majority of both groups walked home.

+ The defense of both events (from those who said not to overreact) was that the events were so poorly planned and executed that they had no chance of success -- making it reasonable to not come down on the attackers that hard.

Beer Hall Putsch:
16 Nazi's and 4 Officers Dead

Capitol Hall Attack
4 Rioters and 1 Officer Dead.

There are a lot of events that occurred like this that are not the Nazis, but these aren't crazily different events.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:08 PM
What is this and what does it mean?

https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/


Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:10 PM
Did Trump resign or did they do the 25th?
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:11 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
What is this and what does it mean?

https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/




Just saw that - but it continues refreshing and updating...

It looks like some programmer took "until present" -- and made it a web-page that constantly updates to the present time.

EDIT: I refreshed again and then it went back 10 minutes. Both times in GMT -- I would guess programming error.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:12 PM
In the words Foster the People “Call it what you want”

Wikipedia lists the brief siege under “coups and coup attempts”. It’s the last entry. You have to scroll down a bit.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coups_and_coup_attempts
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:16 PM
https://www.state.gov/biographies/michael-r-pence/
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:20 PM
I'm simply pointing out a similarity and a lack of expecting accountability.

The things Trump has done do not rise to and pale in comparison the level of Hitler. But many of the tactics they used and the cult following they attained by using tactics do have a great degree of similarities. But then despite your apparent objections, you know this already.

Undermining the press to the point of creating an environment where your supporters listen to you and those who agree with you and consider anything to the contrary a lie.

Painting people of different races and political beliefs as the enemy of your nation and way of life.

I could go on but you know damned good and well it's true.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:33 PM
https://bnonews.com/index.php/2021/01/u-s-state-department-mistakenly-reports-trumps-term-ended/
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:50 PM
I understand the statistics. But one of the first things they tell you is that final selection of the sample size should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis (and you mentioned this in your post...).

74 million people voted Republican in the last election, and you're going to tell me with a straight face that less than 1000 polled is definitely going to give an accurate representation of the population? I don't buy it.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 08:51 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
It also looks like it's pretty much worthless. Do you not see the footnote at the bottom?
I fixed that. tongue


Ok, credit where it's due. I lol'd.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/11/21 09:20 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I understand the statistics. But one of the first things they tell you is that final selection of the sample size should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis (and you mentioned this in your post...).

74 million people voted Republican in the last election, and you're going to tell me with a straight face that less than 1000 polled is definitely going to give an accurate representation of the population? I don't buy it.


Yes? I don't think you understand statistics, because the point I made is just a mathematical fact.
Posted By: WooferDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 01:50 AM
I just wonder how Mike Pence feels about seeing the gallows with a noose.

And the chants to hang him.

There were just so many things wrong about the whole day.

We can discuss the proper term, coup, insurrection, riot, sedition..

A sprinkling of craziness for sure, we have been wondering how far it would go, well we found out.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 01:56 AM
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 01:58 AM


It’s ended.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 02:41 AM
That's not Officer Sicknick in that particular photo.

Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 02:26 PM
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 03:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I understand the statistics. But one of the first things they tell you is that final selection of the sample size should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis (and you mentioned this in your post...).

74 million people voted Republican in the last election, and you're going to tell me with a straight face that less than 1000 polled is definitely going to give an accurate representation of the population? I don't buy it.


Yes? I don't think you understand statistics, because the point I made is just a mathematical fact.



I do, as application of statistics is a large part of my job. My second post is about the difference between simply understanding stats and application. Just mindlessly using the number that's spit out from the equation can frequently get you into trouble.

So again... if you are confident that less than 1k sample can consistently give adequate coverage of the entire population... well, I just don't think common sense would agree.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 04:07 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
j/c

In 1924 Hitler attempted a coup of the German government. By their standards, he was treated with a light sentence of five years of which he only served one year of. During his time in prison, he wrote Mein Kampf.

The rest is history as they say.

In 2021 we have a president who invoked his followers and incited them to the point of attempting coup. The answer of his political party? "We must move on".

Hitler had 2000 men and planned to seize the city and keep it.

This coup seized the Capitol and gave it back and went home.

But congrats on invoking Hitler.




You are wasting your time DC.

The lines are drawn and there probably isn't any going back. I wonder how long it takes for Harris to call for the 25th on President Biden?
Posted By: bonefish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 04:13 PM

" President Donald Trump could face criminal charges, even if he didn’t storm the Capitol himself.

The federal criminal code (18 USC 373) makes it a crime to solicit, command, induce or “endeavor to persuade” another person to commit a felony that includes the threat or use of physical force. Simply put, it is a crime to persuade another person, or a mob of several thousand, to commit a violent felony.

From the early results of the investigation, we know that several insurrectionists already have been charged with felonies. However, the crime posing the biggest problem for the president could be having solicited the mob into a seditious conspiracy. The federal criminal code makes it a crime for “two or more persons … to oppose by force the authority [of the United States] or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States” (18 USC 2384). That felony, including the use of force, clearly was committed by the mob after being encouraged by the president.

In mid-December, Trump tweeted, “Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election. Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!” At the Save America rally, Trump exhorted his supporters to “stop the steal,” shortly before they launched their attack. He commanded the crowd, “Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong.” He made it clear: “If they do the wrong thing, we should never, ever forget that they did. Never forget.” Near the end of his address, Trump went on to remind his supporters, “The radical left knows exactly what they were doing. They are ruthless and it’s time that somebody did something about it.”

Then, the president closed his nearly 11,000-word performance saying, “So we are going to—we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give—the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try—give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re try—going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.”

As a person with good lawyers and experience being investigated, Trump would undoubtedly claim these comments were nothing more than First-Amendment-protected political speech if he were charged with encouraging the mob to commit seditious conspiracy. But that might not help. In 1969, the U.S. Supreme Court, in Brandenberg v Ohio, found that the government can punish inflammatory speech when it is “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”

Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 05:12 PM
How many other conspiracy theories have they warped your brain into believing Peen?

And are you actually denying that there aren't fair comparisons between Trump and Hitler?

Did Hitler not blame the Jews on the ills of their society just like Trump did with immigrants?

Did he not install only people within government that would never question or oppose him no matter how crazy the things he said were? Do you have any idea how many people has fired since he was elected to accomplish the very same thing?

Did Hitler not accuse the press and anyone that disagreed with him as not being patriotic and being the enemy of their country? That anything they told the people was a lie? Creating a situation by which his followers would only listen to him and ignore anything and everything else anyone said?

You see, Trump can't open concentration camps and gas millions of people. He can't just unilaterally go to war and try to takeover the world.

But if you disagree with how some of the tactics he used to form a cult like status do not mirror some of the very same tactics Hitler used, bring something to the table. Try and dispute it. because as much as you hate to hear it, you know damned well it's true.

Do yourself a favor and read The Dictators Handbook. I mean if you wish to learn where the tactics Trump used actually came from rather than ignore the truth and live in denial

There's a playbook written based on the history of how dictatorships have been installed. How these tactics have been used to destroy Republics and Democracies in the past. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Rather than learn those lessons you would rather ignore them and pretend there wasn't a roadmap for what we're seeing now. There most certainly is.

Trump has been using it and millions of Americans have fallen for it.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 05:21 PM
There are lot's of comparisons between Hitler and Trump. They are factual. It doesn't mean Trump is Hitler, doesn't mean he has the same agenda ... but the manipulation and how he uses some similar tactics is 100% accurate. To bury your head in the sand and just discount that is ignorance.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 05:30 PM
And that was exactly my point. They aren't "the same". But many of the tactics they used to accomplish their goals are.

And as much as some people wish to dismiss it, we are currently traveling down a very dangerous road because of it. Our democracy is in danger. How far this will go is very much in question at this point.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 06:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
j/c

In 1924 Hitler attempted a coup of the German government. By their standards, he was treated with a light sentence of five years of which he only served one year of. During his time in prison, he wrote Mein Kampf.

The rest is history as they say.

In 2021 we have a president who invoked his followers and incited them to the point of attempting coup. The answer of his political party? "We must move on".

Hitler had 2000 men and planned to seize the city and keep it.

This coup seized the Capitol and gave it back and went home.

But congrats on invoking Hitler.




You are wasting your time DC.

The lines are drawn and there probably isn't any going back. I wonder how long it takes for Harris to call for the 25th on President Biden?




rofl OMG the lines are drawn/? You trump supporters crossed the line when you all attacked US in our house, and now Y’all claim the lines been drawn? rofl: Oh the humanity. Common sense flys away from you at light speed. Pffft trump supporters. Insurrectionists with their heads in the sand, all of em. I can’t wait to hear the next trump supporter’s conspiracy theory. As believable as trump.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 07:02 PM
We do have trump on record as saying he could shoot someone and not loose supporters. So we know for sure trump supporters don’t care what laws he breaks.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 07:10 PM
When he first said that I thought it sounded cray. The longer things have gone on the more I believe it to be true.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 08:44 PM
LOL
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 08:53 PM
That's exactly the type of response I expected from you. When you can't dispute the facts, mock them.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 08:59 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I understand the statistics. But one of the first things they tell you is that final selection of the sample size should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis (and you mentioned this in your post...).

74 million people voted Republican in the last election, and you're going to tell me with a straight face that less than 1000 polled is definitely going to give an accurate representation of the population? I don't buy it.


Yes? I don't think you understand statistics, because the point I made is just a mathematical fact.



I do, as application of statistics is a large part of my job. My second post is about the difference between simply understanding stats and application. Just mindlessly using the number that's spit out from the equation can frequently get you into trouble.

So again... if you are confident that less than 1k sample can consistently give adequate coverage of the entire population... well, I just don't think common sense would agree.


You're entirely wrong -- both quantitatively and in your broader understanding of statistics.

Quantitatively - The margin of error from statistical uncertainties in polling (or any other binary process which follows a Bernoulli distribution) is defined as sigma_p = sqrt(p*(1-p)/n)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_distribution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

For 836 people and percentages between 10% and 50% (for the different subgroups), this converts to errors that are between 1% and 1.7%, just like the poll said.

More importantly, you are qualitatively wrong in your understanding of the dependence of polling errors on N (the total population number).

If you have a random draw n from a population N, and assuming N >> n (that is, n is not a substantial fraction of N) -- then the uncertainty in your poll of n people is independent of the size of N. Note, for example, that N never appears in any formalism of a Bernoulli distribution.

This is paradoxical to some people -- when a population is 74 million people (as you mentioned) how can they be represented by only 836? However, the importance of each of those people also gets smaller as the population gets bigger. If you miss a subgroup of 1M people in your statistic -- it matters much more if the whole population is 5M than if the population is 100M.

TL;DR - Samples of 836 people are valid at the level of ~2-3% statistically (so long as you can randomly draw from the population, as mentioned in my very first post). The difficult of drawing randomly from a population does not necessarily get any harder as the population gets bigger.

A sample of 836 people is equally valid whether you are polling Parma, OH - Cleveland OH, or the USA.
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:00 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
That's exactly the type of response I expected from you. When you can't dispute the facts, mock them.


WOW...how many times have we seen rofl as your reply?
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:03 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
When he first said that I thought it sounded cray. The longer things have gone on the more I believe it to be true.


That has aged well right?
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:06 PM
Originally Posted By: fishtheice
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
That's exactly the type of response I expected from you. When you can't dispute the facts, mock them.


WOW...how many times have we seen rofl as your reply?


Probably as many times as you’ve claimed trump as being your grand wizard.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:07 PM
Originally Posted By: fishtheice
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
That's exactly the type of response I expected from you. When you can't dispute the facts, mock them.


WOW...how many times have we seen rofl as your reply?


I gave an informed reply. People like yourself, and now I can include Peen in that group, refuse to address any points, have an actual discussion or add anything of value. So you get what you deserve.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:13 PM
It’s obvious Peen holds everybody responsible but trump and his supporters. Just like trump does. After all trump is the grand wizard in charge of chaos. So they have to obey their master.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:22 PM
Regarding statistics and polls .... what you said may be 100% true based on math and modeling.

But - and it's a huge 'but' - all of your theory is predicated on finding 836 'representative' samples or people to sample. I think that's impossible because there is a wide spectrum of opinions and ideals. Just my take. No matter what the subject, no matter where you pull your 836 subjects from. jmo based on human nature and the real world.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:26 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Regarding statistics and polls .... what you said may be 100% true based on math and modeling.

But - and it's a huge 'but' - all of your theory is predicated on finding 836 'representative' samples or people to sample. I think that's impossible because there is a wide spectrum of opinions and ideals. Just my take. No matter what the subject, no matter where you pull your 836 subjects from. jmo based on human nature and the real world.


Yes - but that is the qualitative problem.

As the population gets bigger -- the opinions of small groups of people get less important.

For example, it is much harder to poll Alaska accurately than it is to poll the US accurately. This is due to the very sharp rural/urban divide in Alaska which makes it difficult to accurately match people who do/don't have cell phones, do/don't have house phones etc.

You may say -- "But to poll the US accurately you have to poll Alaska too!" - but that is false. You can poll Alaska very badly and still get a good poll for the US overall, because Alaska isn't very important to the average person in the US.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:34 PM
Bro it doesn’t matter to trump supporters.

Lets talk about accountability and a little whataboutism.

Scenerio......Barrack Obama just incited a riot by asking his followers to march on the US capitol building to overturn the election and to fight to keep their country. Then the mob mostly black men, some armed with bombs and guns ascended on the capitol killing 5. Who’s accountable? Certainly not Obama right rofl?
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:35 PM
America Needs to Break the Back of its Fascist Movement Now — Or Else

America’s Been Appeasing its Fascists for the Last Five Years. Now It’s Time to Throw the Book at Them, and Then Some.

You know who has the right idea right about now? Arnold Schwarzenegger. He just released a video calling the “riots” at the Capitol “America’s Kristallnacht.”

There’s a dangerous current surging in America.No, not (just) the violent fascist coup during which paramilitaries beat a cop to death with a fire extinguisher inside the Capitol.

An even more dangerous one: the idea that the people who carried out this coup deserve mercy.

Let me assure you as a survivor and scholar of authoritarianism. There is only one way to deal with fascism, terrorism, authoritariaism, coups, what Americans call “sedition.”

Zero tolerance.

America needs to break the back of this fascist movement, now, severely — or it will pay an even more severe price in years and decades to come. A price in violence, rage, blood, and unrest. The highest of prices. No, I’m not kidding — and though you might feel a chill, I think you know it, too. It’s us or them.

There must be no quarter given to forces like Trumpists. There never should’ve been in the first place, but I digress. Let me explain why, even though I’m sure you already know.

Trumpists have revealed themselves to be a neo-fascist movement. A serious and real one. Having been unable to achieve their goals through consensual, peaceful democratic means, what did they do — the very first time they lost? They engaged in violence. Not just any kind of violence — sporadic, minor-league, harmless. They stormed the nation’s Capitol and shed blood.

Now, this act carries a very significant meaning. It says something. It is not some kind of random eruption of bottled up rage and suffering, for which we should all have empathy and mercy. It was not the tantrum of a child, or the outburst of a spoiled toddler — these were grown adults. It wasn’t the meaningless violence of a lunatic — these people planned their attack carefully. It wasn’t the huff of a scorned lover — these people wanted to destroy, not just walk away disappointed. It wasn’t a fraternity prank, a form of hazing, a legitimate protest, a night at the comedy club.

This wasn’t a tantrum, a huff, an outburst. So what was it?

This was deliberate, organised mass violence, led by the head of state, with a deep and abiding political, social, and cultural point.

What were those points? Let’s take them one by one.

The political point began with “If you beat us at the ballot box, we will come for you with guns and rifles and bombs, right in the heart of your democracy.” But it didn’t end there. It said, also: “We will profane your democracy’s most sacred and historic symbols. Because we don’t believe in them. We don’t believe that everyone deserves to share in them. All the power in this society is either ours, or it will be no one’s.”

In other words, the political message of this violence was to teach the rest of the country a lesson. We are the powerful ones. It is you or us. Either society will be what we want it to be, or we will not allow there to be a society at all. This is just the first of many such acts to come. It’s us or you.

What does that mean, exactly? It means what fascism always does. The choice between fascism and civilisation always goes like this. It’s our violence or your peace, it’s our brutality or your decency, it’s our authoritarianism or your democracy, it’s our hate and domination or your consensual, modern society.

They are the ones who don’t want there to be a choice. They are the ones for whom there is no compromise.

Why is that? Because their worldview is binary. Think back to Nietzsche, the intellectual godfather of fascism. His worldview was binary, too. You were were either a master or a slave, were strong or weak, an ubermensch or an underman, an overman or an underman. There was no gray area — which is what democracy and humanity are all about, finding the shades and nuances and differences, and appreciating their subtlety and hue and beauty.

This binary worldview is what fascists since that day have carried forward. Whether they know it or not is another question, but it’s there in Trumpism, and it’s easy to see. Either you’re a “real” American or you’re not, either you’re “legal” or you’re not, either you’re fetishistically devoted to Papa Trump, or you’re an “enemy of the people.” They either adore or hate. They have no capacity — none — to think, reason, contemplate, reflect. To say, “though you are different from me, I appreciate you all the more for just that reason.”

That is what makes a fascist.

Or one of the key things at any rate. The political message of all this violence is therefore to say: It is our way, or no way. It is us, or you. If you’re not one of us, you’re not really a human being at all — you are on the side of the subhumans, a “race traitor” or worse. Fascists want a society cleaved in two — a fanatical, hateful place, made of the weak and strong, the human and the subhuman, the pure and the impure, and everything in politics, institutions, agencies, associations, are to be devoted to that end.

That is why you cannot compromise or even negotiate with fascists. They have no room for compromise and negotiation. They want a totalitarian society — no compromise is possible. They will use violence to get it — no compromise is possible. So what is there to bargain over?

Precisely nothing. Sure, they might play a good game of lying about all the above — but that’s all they’re really doing, making a fool of you long the way.

You cannot negotiate or compromise with fascists because by definition such a thing isn’t possible. And if you try, the fool ends up being you.

What happens if we do try to compromise with fascists? That brings me to the social and cultural points of all this violence. Remember, fascists cannot compromise, inherently, as a limitation of their totalitarian, bipolarized worldview. It’s them or you.

So if you compromise with them, there’s only one result. They think you’re weak. Gullible. Foolish. Knowing that you won’t punish them, what do they do? They escalate.

That’s history’s pattern. How did the Nazis end up taking control of Germany? Well, nobody punished them when they were beating people in the streets, hating Jews, or putsching Beer Halls. The idea was to try and compromise with them. Later, much of Europe, notably France, would make that same mistake, all over again. And that mistake has been made by society after society. How did the Muslim World fall? It tried to compromise with its own fascists. The story is always the same.

Compromising with fascists therefore corrodes the social norms of a healthy, civilised democracy. Instead of confronting fascism head-on, it creates norms of submissions, denial, and complicity. Little acts of complicity become OK — they are just what we have do to “heal,” or get by, or forget.

Meanwhile, the fascists are forever escalating, laughing at the weakness of such people. Where have we seen this pattern? In America from 2016 to 2020.

Remember how Trump was treated with laughter from intellectuals and many politicians? How pundits and columnists refused to take the idea he was about to lead a fascist collapse seriously? I do, because they attacked me viciously for warning of it, but don’t cry for me: I raise that as an example. America itself is a case study in how attempting to compromise with fascists corrodes healthy democratic norms.

What did Trump and his flock do in response to America perpetually trying to compromise with them — pundits in denial, opposition complicit, majority silent? They escalated. They escalated from rhetorical hate to concentration camps to kids in cages in them to hated minorities hunted in the street to Gestapos beating and disappearing those who finally protested all this.

Compromise breeds escalation. That is how America got to a fascist coup: five solid years of compromise with fascists, until they escalated to the point of violently storming the Capitol and taking selfies, because they thought they could get away with it.

So there is a social message of all this violence, too. It’s hidden — maybe barely hidden — but I feel as if many Americans are still missing it. It’s this. “We can do something this awful, and mostly get away with it. That is how much we can corrode your norms and values. We can do the very worst things imaginable in this society, and not receive nearly the punishment we deserve. That is how badly we have weakened you.” Do you se the message? It’s always the same: the message of a bully, a thug, a mobster. It’s about instilling fear.

It’s about terror.

The social message of all this violence is to terrorize. “We can get away with it” is successful terrorism. It’s inherently scary to think that someone can do awful things, and not get the punishment that they deserve. What punishment is that, by the way? Well, it’s what society’s already agreed on, at least. A violent coup at the Capitol, for instance, is hardly trespassing or mischief or even criminal damage. It’s sedition and treason.

The social message of the violence is to terrorize. It’s to say: “We will get away with it, on some level, and so you should be scared of us, of our power, because those who can get away with it will keep on doing it again and again, escalating it.”

To not do justice to terrorists is to let the terrorists win.

That lesson goes both ways, by the way. When America tried Arab terrorists in secret courts, that wasn’t really justice, either — and so America never healed from those wounds. It might never heal from these wounds either, the wounds of coup and sedition and treason, if justice is never done for them, too.

That is because justice is the only healing. Injustice is injury. Injustice to the rest of us — those fascists being charged just with trespassing and mischief, LOL — is injury to all of us, to our democracy, to our civilised values, to our efforts to vote, to our peacefulness. It’s not a joke. It is a lasting and serious harm. And to “heal” that harm isn’t done by — as Biden and Kamala seem to be suggesting — going easy on the fascists, trying to forget. Healing is accomplished through justice.

Think about that in your own life. How “healed” do you feel from relationships in which you were victimised and abused and no justice was ever done? Not much, probably.

That’s the cultural point of all this violence. It’s to say: “We’re never going to let you heal. Every time you make progress, we’re going to be there, causing you harm, inflicting grave injury on you, doing violence to you. It’s us or you. You will never heal so long as we are around. We will keep on opening up those old wounds, and they will bleed rawer and redder.”

The cultural point of all this violence is to make — to keep — Americans victims. To make them feel fatalistic, powerless, hopeless. To glumly resign themselves to the fact that justice isn’t done. But people like that are what abusers want to create — victims. People who never have a happy, confident, beautiful sense of their own power, efficacy, purpose, destiny, truth.

The cultural point of the coup is to rub Americans noses in their powerlessness all over again so that they don’t get any ideas, which is what they might have got after the election. Ideas about their own power and efficacy and might of collective action. About what society and and should be, a peaceful and civilised and decent place. It is to triumph again in the way of creating a new example to remind Americans about their own powerlessness with — “they got away with it! And there was nothing we could do!!” — and thus create, all over again, the fatalistic, apathetic, resigned American that the world is so accustomed to.

That is why it’s so, so important that justice be done. Fully. The way it should be. They weren’t rioters, they were fascists, and that wasn’t an insurrection, that was a coup. And it should be punished and treated as such. For the three reasons I’ve outlined above. Let me repeat them and simplify them.

One: you can’t compromise with fascists because they are totalitarians to begin with. They only believe in a violent, hateful, ignorant, binary worldview, and so any compromise is a lie, a trick, a strategy, doomed to fail.

Two. You shouldn’t compromise with fascists and terrorists because it creates a norm with a very special name all its own: appeasement. And there is no road to ruin swifter and surer than appeasement — just ask history, or America 2016–2020, which appeased its way, one weary, surrendering step at a time, from rhetorical hate and scapegoating to concentration camps to kids in cages to Gestapos beating moms in the streets, all the way to a violent coup at the Capitol. That’s not some kind of coincidence — it’s stark proof of an old, old truth. The only way appeasement ever ends is with the fascists and terrorists winning.

Three. You give terrorists no mercy because when you do, they have succeeded at terrorising. They have demonstrated that they can get away with it, and that’s scary: it has chilling effects on society, it emboldens them, it keeps their movements alive, it lets them laugh at the wrist-slap, which is exactly what scares the sane and thoughtful person who opposes them.

When you give terrorists mercy and quarter, they have succeeded in their mission, which was to terrorize. They have scared you into treating them lightly, into submission, to relent. Why else would you go easy on them, unless you were terrorized?

This moment — right now — is a major, major test for America. A democracy that tolerates fascists and terrorists doesn’t often stay one for long.

The back of the fascist, terrorist movement Trumpism is now metamorphosing into — having failed at using political ends to achieve its means — must be broken. From top to bottom. Now. It must be given no quarter and shown no mercy. It should be left a thing as spineless as…the Dems, weak, cowering, afraid to step a millimetre outside its cage, unless it changes and renounces its way. Why? Don’t you know?

Perhaps I still have to remind you what we survivors of fascism say. Have been saying, since the day Trump began his inexorable rise to power, the very thing that the pundits and columnists and intellectuals attacked and mocked us for — and proved their own folly and hubris. It is the very, very first thing we will say, when it comes to matters of human affairs. It only takes two words to say, to teach this gravest and most fundamental of lessons about fascism, and those two words are why America should have a zero-tolerance policy for its fascists right now. What are those two words?

Never.

Again.

Umair
January 2021

https://eand.co/america-needs-to-break-the-back-of-its-fascist-movement-now-or-else-d415b4b75a3f
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 09:54 PM
Am I speaking a different language? Again, I wasn't arguing the quantitative... I can double-check wiki and/or pull up the Minitab tutorial just as easily as you did. It's the application (qualitative, as you put it).

Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the sampling procedures for that website. Perhaps they take precautions to ensure a random sampling. I just see such a small sample for such a charged topic as leaving yourself open to letting the vocal minority skew the results.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/12/21 10:01 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Am I speaking a different language? Again, I wasn't arguing the quantitative... I can double-check wiki and/or pull up the Minitab tutorial just as easily as you did. It's the application (qualitative, as you put it).

Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the sampling procedures for that website. Perhaps they take precautions to ensure a random sampling. I just see such a small sample for such a charged topic as leaving yourself open to letting the vocal minority skew the results.


You said it shouldn't be taken seriously because it's only 836 people.

It might be a bad poll - but your objection is BS.
Posted By: WooferDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/13/21 05:03 AM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Regarding statistics and polls .... what you said may be 100% true based on math and modeling.

But - and it's a huge 'but' - all of your theory is predicated on finding 836 'representative' samples or people to sample. I think that's impossible because there is a wide spectrum of opinions and ideals. Just my take. No matter what the subject, no matter where you pull your 836 subjects from. jmo based on human nature and the real world.


The problem is the presumption that the statistical sample is “representative” of the total population. It was not, therefore the reasoning is flawed. Mail in votes were skewed heavily towards Biden, same day votes were skewed towards Trump. That was intentional and the skew was promoted by Trump when he railed against mail in votes and Democrats promotes for mail in votes.

Part of the strategy.

However it is a basis statistics issue. As my Dad and those in the football forum have said, there are liars, damn liners and statistics.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/13/21 08:59 AM
Originally Posted By: ChargerDawg

The problem is the presumption that the statistical sample is “representative” of the total population. It was not, therefore the reasoning is flawed. Mail in votes were skewed heavily towards Biden, same day votes were skewed towards Trump. That was intentional and the skew was promoted by Trump when he railed against mail in votes and Democrats promotes for mail in votes.


It is not any easier to find 10,000 people who are representative of the US population (with 3% accuracy) than it is to find 836 people who are representative of the US population (at 3% accuracy).

The size of the sample doesn't matter between these numbers -- and at the quoted level of accuracy.
Posted By: Jester Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/13/21 12:33 PM
Republicans want to obtain unity by ignoring the actions of trump. I say the better path to unity would be near unanimous vote for impeachment in the house, then again in the senate to remove.

Won't happen because Republicans don't really want unity.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/13/21 01:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Jester
Republicans want to obtain unity by ignoring the actions of trump. I say the better path to unity would be near unanimous vote for impeachment in the house, then again in the senate to remove.

Won't happen because Republicans don't really want unity.


the trump supporters here don’t want unity either. Most all them disappeared and crawled back under that rock where they’ve lived for years before trump.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/13/21 08:51 PM
I see no reason that unity and accountability should be linked together or understand any justification for making one a precondition for the other.

First, accountability is best achieved through the law. Sometimes the law is fair, sometimes it is not fair. Sometimes justice is carried out fairly, sometimes it is not. Despite the imperfections in the system, it is still the best way we have to pursue accountability among citizens rather than to carry out accountability in an adhoc manner, e.g. mob rule, cancel culture, and vigilantism.

Second, I do not even understand the calls for unity. What specifically do people mean by unity? This country is not supposed to be a dictatorship, where one person’s set of ideas reign supreme and everyone else steps in line. In the United States, it is okay if people do not agree on many things. We have a form of government in place that accounts for that and gives each and every person the opportunity to have their own unique set of positions on the full array of issues. If our representatives are not unified, that is fine as well. They should have different positions, in fact, I would argue that they are at their worst when they are unified, because that usually means that they are looking out for their collective best interests at the expense of the interests of their constituents.

Now, it could be that those calling for unity do not actually mean unity, but rather, simply want people to calm down and respect each other to a degree that life and property are not put in danger. Seems like a reasonable objective to me, but personally, I am starting to become ambivalent to the whole thing, if partisans want to go at it with each other, there is little that the non-partisans can do to prevent it, so maybe we stop calling for unity and just let them battle it out.

The ability of partisans not to see their own behavior reflected in their opponents is astonishing to me. Who does this sound like to you?
1. Celebrates civic unrest and protests
2. Rationalizes use of force against authorities
3. Downplays resulting violence because only a fraction of protestors became violent
4. Creates inflammatory information about opposition leaders to undermine their credibility
5. Leaders label opposition protesters with grossly exaggerated terms such “domestic terrorists”
6. When press and journalists shows protests turning violent, they are criticized for not showing the protest in its entirety

Maybe recognizing this can help people realize that it is not our different opinions and ideas that are causing unrest and violence but our individual choices and actions.

So, it seems to me we can achieve non-violence through unity, but that means giving up our individual beliefs and ideas, an entirely un-American concept if I have ever heard one. I think a better solution is to reflect on our own behaviors and principles and try to figure out what allowed this country to work through past disagreements during times of civility and determine how we can bring back those principles that allowed us to disagree but disagree respectfully.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/13/21 08:56 PM
Sorry - you've had some good takes in the recent weeks. These are 100% false equivalence.

Oh well.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/14/21 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Sorry - you've had some good takes in the recent weeks. These are 100% false equivalence.

Oh well.


My key point wasn't to making the case that the two sides are entirely equivalent, but to give my opinion that accountability and unity do not really need to be linked in any way.

It is interesting to me that the comparison of the two sides is the part that you chose to focus on. Those were just my observations of things that I see as similar which happen to be playing a role in this conflict. If you think that I am missing some nuanced information or points that you feel justifies the actions of one side vs the other, then I would be interested in reading more about your opinions on the that.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/14/21 02:52 AM
How can you unite if parts or all of one side or the other feel in their heart that there isn't open and honest accountability?

Uniting isn't a speech or the words you say - it is living it, breathing it, doing it. Actions. Attitude. Alignment.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/14/21 03:19 AM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
How can you unite if parts or all of one side or the other feel in their heart that there isn't open and honest accountability?

Uniting isn't a speech or the words you say - it is living it, breathing it, doing it. Actions. Attitude. Alignment.


We don't need to be united in truest sense of the word. We can have differences of opinion and we can solve problems by debating issues, being open minded, and compromising.

It is great to pursue accountability, justice , and all that, but its not a perfect system. People get off the hook every day for things that are wrong and we don't always agree on what is or is not wrong. For example, my opinion on accountability when it comes to Julian Assange or Edward Snowden is significantly different from most Americans, but in no way do I believe that we should toss out the possibility of all future compromise just because I am on the currently losing side of that issue.

From my point of view, In order to have comprehensive accountability, then their needs to be one singular source that determines right from wrong and that source needs to be able to enforce their will on the citizens. That involves the citizens sacrificing most of their freedoms.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/14/21 02:11 PM
I think holding people accountable - transparently - is probably more important than unity. Most especially with those that are governing and leading. Seems like a slippery slope to "not the rule of law" if you shrug your shoulders and say "Yeah but justice is so hard".

It's why I and others said prosecute the looters and rioters, investigate Biden Jr .... accountability and law and order is important.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/14/21 06:58 PM
I think you may be misunderstanding what the intent of the unity that is spoken of actually means. At least from my perspective. I think what is meant is that while we will still have our differences in ideologies, we won't see each other as the enemy.

Everyone is not going to agree. Unity doesn't mean we should all see things the same way. What it means is that we start to see that as Americans, we all want what we believe is the best path forward for America. We all have the best intentions in our beliefs.

And it's fine that you perceive what we are seeing as strictly based on " our individual choices and actions" and to a great extent I agree with you. But to boil it all down to that it would mean ignoring the fact that one party elected a man as president that says things to incite people. Like, "If the democrats get elected they will destroy America as you know it". "They are communists!", "We have to fight!".

You see, inciting people to violence isn't the same thing as having different ideologies. It's calling people with different ideologies the enemy of your nation. Here is what unity looks like...



It's not that we all agree. It's that we have differences and there is no need to sow the seeds of hate to have those differences.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/14/21 07:32 PM
Accountability and arrests:

Guy that threw fire extinguisher at police officer.


Confederate flag in Capitol guy (and son).








Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/14/21 08:48 PM
More accountability. What a guy.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/15/21 12:57 AM
If you are stupid enough to put that crap on social media then do something this dumb taking action on your brilliant ideas... bury them under the jail. ALL OF THEM.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/15/21 02:07 AM
Oops.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/15/21 11:21 AM
Quote:
We can have differences of opinion and we can solve problems by debating issues, being open minded, and compromising.


No offense but......... rofl rofl rofl
Posted By: WooferDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/15/21 05:18 PM
For the past 4 years, unity has been absent from the Trump/Republican vocabulary...

When the crap hits the fan in a way that it has never had before, they want to play nice....

No, that is why they lost, they need a time out, and Trump needs to go out with a swift kick in the behind.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/15/21 09:01 PM
Quote:
For the past 4 years, unity has been absent from the Trump/Republican vocabulary...

Yes, watching democrats reach across the aisle and seeing their efforts rejected for well over the last 4 years is disheartening...


I mean, it didn't happen.. but I'm sure if it had actually happened, I would have found it disheartening.
Posted By: Lyuokdea Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/15/21 09:02 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN

I mean, it didn't happen.. but I'm sure if it had actually happened, I would have found it disheartening.


What was Merrick Garland?
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/15/21 09:30 PM
What did you want them reach across the isle on?

Separating kids from families?
Removing girls ovaries without their consent?
Giving the wealthiest a tax break they didn't need?
Ignoring science on Covid?
Making stuff up about Covid and calling it the "China Virus"?
Pandering to dictators?
Calling the free press the enemy of the people?
Talking a "good game" about China but not having a clue how to achieve anything?
Making Mexico pay for a Wall that won't do anything?
Getting illegal Mexicans to help build the Wall?
Maybe using force to move aside peaceful protesters so Trump could take a photo with an upside down bible? -- OR -- using no force and telling supporting forces to the Capitol Police to stand down, so insurgents could occupy the Capitol Building, kill a cop and run around shouting revolution and "Hang Mike Pence"?

Let me know what specifically was worthy of support.
Posted By: WooferDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/16/21 02:20 AM
Trump and the Republicans have gone so far to the right, arms are no longer long enough.

As 888 posted, their positions are non starters.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/16/21 01:49 PM
j/c...

Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/16/21 02:29 PM
It’s sad watching these people trying to stuff the toothpaste back into the tube. Just Sad.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/16/21 03:48 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



Too late .... the Trump of Cult heard the accusations and the "news" after the election. They now "know" that the voting machines were rigged. The election was stolen. Every 2 bit crummy Alt Right web site repeated it endlessly ... they won't report the new news that highlights that what was said before was a pack of lies because the wannabe King is such a spoilt brat he can't handle that he lost.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/16/21 04:41 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
It’s sad watching these people trying to stuff the toothpaste back into the tube. Just Sad.


Bringing the toothpaste out of the tube has only served to make them 20% whiter. And nobody wanted that. wink
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/16/21 04:42 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



Well there goes the fish Bible.
Posted By: Jester Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 01:14 AM
The republicans don't want unity. They want to "get away with it".

If they really wanted unity, the 1st step would be for trump, lindsey, cruz, jim jordan et al to come out and say no the election wasn't rigged, Biden won fair and square. Congratulations Joe. Until this happens, there will never be unity, impeachment or not.

I would even let them save face by saying we discovered more evidence that led us to change our minds or something like that. But I would bet my mortgage that would never happen. So until it does, in my mind, republican calls for unity are nothing but a bunch of hot air and yet another lie they are trying to fool the people with.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 02:11 AM
I have something to say about elections.
(Do people ever notice how people like OJ simpson and Scott Peterson don't spend more effort trying to find the real murderers of their wives, or why that (faced) Kid, who grew up, from the adams family , Robert something, didn't show more upset at his wifes death?)

Since(if), the Democrats didn't know the election was rigged to give them an outcome
PRIOR to the election, then the democrats, spent endless, tireless, months of campaigneing, B4 the election
Demanding Millions of Thousands of people show up, and be allowed to come out of their cars, and were sure to hit every spot of every state, with "ERNEST" CAMPAIGNING,
in the hopes they might get more votes, (CLEARLY,- not! sweltering away in a basement Connecticut fireplace room, which happened).

(because if they had had prior knowledge of a computer or counting system that would change all the votes to votes for them, then they wouldn't have to do the endless campaigning

(I mean the endless campaigning they didn't do, and the weeks before, news head lines and speeches claiming the votes would be for Trump and then later be switched to Biden-in the weeks to follow, and the endless propaganda of trying to explain that with claims that leftists would only use snail mail.)

Further!
Since(if) the democrats had never tried this before, they did not set up a situation where the entire Republican presidential ticket was a democrat idealist, ie. Romney, and McCain, And!
And! And! Because of that, McCain, surely did not even end his campaigning a week and a half before his respected election, and just say (heck with) it.

Which McCain kind of did, iirc.

And the Democrats, have such integrity, that they wouldn't (DID), use superdelegates to push through Hilary as the candidate in 2016 not giving Bernie Sanders the chance,

Even in Micheal Moores' documentary showing West Virginia calling out it's microphone at the convention giving it's nomination to Hilary and the person holding up the Sigh behind the speechpersons head saying
" Bernie won all 81 counties" or howver many counties they have in that state.

Democrats don't do that, cause democrats

well some think they are cute lil infants that could do no wrong,

in spite of the evidence right in front of everyones' faces.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 02:16 AM
saywhat notallthere
Posted By: Swish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 02:26 AM
I use to think the tin foil hats were buy one get on free, but clearly they’re being handed out like propaganda pamphlets.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:03 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
I use to think the tin foil hats were buy one get on free, but clearly they’re being handed out like propaganda pamphlets.


Pretty sure Biden hands them out to his hysterical libtard followers along with a mask.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:10 AM
Swish is sure to appreciate the 2 cents worth of nothing-but-sass-dipped-in-grits comment from the Y'allyban.
Posted By: Swish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:12 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
I use to think the tin foil hats were buy one get on free, but clearly they’re being handed out like propaganda pamphlets.


Pretty sure Biden hands them out to his hysterical libtard followers along with a mask.


What was that? Sorry, I don’t speak domestic terrorist.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:14 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
I use to think the tin foil hats were buy one get on free, but clearly they’re being handed out like propaganda pamphlets.


Pretty sure Biden hands them out to his hysterical libtard followers along with a mask.


What was that? Sorry, I don’t speak domestic terrorist.


I dont know to translate english to socialist grunting.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:18 AM
I see the problem, you are trying to turn it into grunting but the left actually enunciates words, reads books, and goes to school. Maybe you should stick to whacking trees with a stick to communicate with your people.
Posted By: Swish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:19 AM
Please. MAGAz grunt louder than your Jag.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:21 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I see the problem, you are trying to turn it into grunting but the left actually enunciates words, reads books, and goes to school. Maybe you should stick to whacking trees with a stick to communicate with your people.


As far as I can tell the left want live off of handouts, feels entitled to other peoples stuff, and cant handle desenting opinions, and they try to cancel anyone who disagrees with them. Its not surprising your base form of communication is grunting.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:21 AM
"What do ya mean I'm under arrest! All I did was storm the Capitol..." <-below grunting.
Posted By: Swish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:25 AM
Bro these crazies have their own kids putting them on blast on social media.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:25 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I see the problem, you are trying to turn it into grunting but the left actually enunciates words, reads books, and goes to school. Maybe you should stick to whacking trees with a stick to communicate with your people.


As far as I can tell the left want live off of handouts, feels entitled to other peoples stuff, and cant handle desenting opinions, and they try to cancel anyone who disagrees with them. Its not surprising your base form of communication is grunting.


"As far as you can tell"... This is why I keep telling you to educate yourself. You know nothing about the left that wasn't poured into your head by some programmer or some one already programmed just parroting the fascist fake news. Your pic is (alt-)right above the definition of clueless on wikipedia.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:27 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Bro these crazies have their own kids putting them on blast on social media.



Seen that. They kicked her lesbian butt out into the street at 16, she sent them to prison for 20+. I love her.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:30 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I see the problem, you are trying to turn it into grunting but the left actually enunciates words, reads books, and goes to school. Maybe you should stick to whacking trees with a stick to communicate with your people.


As far as I can tell the left want live off of handouts, feels entitled to other peoples stuff, and cant handle desenting opinions, and they try to cancel anyone who disagrees with them. Its not surprising your base form of communication is grunting.


"As far as you can tell"... This is why I keep telling you to educate yourself. You know nothing about the left that wasn't poured into your head by some programmer or some one already programmed just parroting the fascist fake news. Your pic is (alt-)right above the definition of clueless on wikipedia.


My observations are based on your posting. Maybe you should start reading what you write.

Ob now you are on the libtard left delusion that conservatives are somehow programmed. Theres meds that you can take to help you with your delusions. You should talk to a Dr.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:50 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg


My observations are based on your posting. Maybe you should start reading what you write.

Ob now you are on the libtard left delusion that conservatives are somehow programmed. Theres meds that you can take to help you with your delusions. You should talk to a Dr.


rofl

You really shouldn't base anything but universal wisdom on my posts! I'm usually either half high, half mocking, or halfass interested when I make these trolling posts with the intention to get a rise out of the Y'allyban. lmao, I'm not a good representative of the left at all but if you want I can send some true ANTIFA/COMMUNIST/LEFTIST/SOCIALIST/DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST/PROGRESSIVES over to have a chat with you and let you know everything you would ever want to learn about all of the little niche groups on the left and what radical extremism really is... I would send everybody but centrist moderates because they have a secret GOPer-lite membership to the right.

Seriously though, don't measure the left by me, you will be sadly misinformed.

EDIT: BTW- if it's not programming, how do you explain the traitors who stormed the capitol and those that believe in Q? It's programming girl and you know it.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:53 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: EveDawg


My observations are based on your posting. Maybe you should start reading what you write.

Ob now you are on the libtard left delusion that conservatives are somehow programmed. Theres meds that you can take to help you with your delusions. You should talk to a Dr.


rofl

You really shouldn't base anything but universal wisdom on my posts! I'm usually either half high, half mocking, or halfass interested when I make these trolling posts with the intention to get a rise out of the Y'allyban. lmao, I'm not a good representative of the left at all but if you want I can send some true ANTIFA/COMMUNIST/LEFTIST/SOCIALIST/DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST/PROGRESSIVES over to have a chat with you and let you know everything you would ever want to learn about all of the little niche groups on the left and what radical extremism really is... I would send everybody but centrist moderates because they have a secret GOPer-lite membership to the right.

Seriously though, don't measure the left by me, you will be sadly misinformed.


Clearly youre high when you post. If you want to have credibility for your posts then you need to not do that.

The sad part is I think half the left news media is also high when they report the news.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:54 AM
I don't need credibility to talk to the likes of you Eve, I need to be high to do that. lol
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:55 AM
Apparently so.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:55 AM
And you probably missed this edit above:

EDIT: BTW- if it's not programming, how do you explain the traitors who stormed the capitol and those that believe in Q? It's programming girl and you know it.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:00 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
And you probably missed this edit above:

EDIT: BTW- if it's not programming, how do you explain the traitors who stormed the capitol and those that believe in Q? It's programming girl and you know it.


Human brains cannot be programmed. It just makes you sound crazy when you say that.

But like socialists, they can brainwashed. Those people are fringe right.

They will always exist. Much like the fringe left. You all are even more violent and worse.

The sad part is the news is more interested in showing devisive fringe mentality than showing anything positive. Its in their best interest to keep the news a dramarama for the sake of ratings.

Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:04 AM
Hundreds of Trump rally tapes say different. How many of those were you at? And it most assuredly is programming. Just read stories about grandpa being radicalised by fox news... that's programming. You don't just suddenly turn 1/3rd of 74 million people intro racist nazis without some programming.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:06 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Hundreds of Trump rally tapes say different. How many of those were you at? And it most assuredly is programming. Just read stories about grandpa being radicalised by fox news... that's programming. You don't just suddenly turn 1/3rd of 74 million people intro racist nazis without some programming.


Your beliefs are not realistic. Take your meds and go to bed.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:18 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Bro these crazies have their own kids putting them on blast on social media.


They’re learning why their grandpas wore hoods.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:23 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Hundreds of Trump rally tapes say different. How many of those were you at? And it most assuredly is programming. Just read stories about grandpa being radicalised by fox news... that's programming. You don't just suddenly turn 1/3rd of 74 million people intro racist nazis without some programming.


Your beliefs are not realistic. Take your meds and go to bed.


Stop trying to get me to take drugs and stop trying to get me in bed. You have 10 days to stop starting now.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:24 AM
You already admitted to taking drugs. You are clearly up past your bedtime.

What happens in 10 days?
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:26 AM
That's how long I gave you to stop... re read and think about it.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:28 AM
Keep on topic dude.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:28 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Keep on topic dude.
You went there, I just stopped you.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 04:31 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Keep on topic dude.
You went there, I just stopped you.


I dont think so. Keep on topic because Im getting bored.
Posted By: Swish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 12:38 PM
So y’all ever go to sleep?
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 02:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
So y’all ever go to sleep?



LOL....evidently not.

Most of them live on the west coast, they are sleeping now and won't start to rustle around until mid morning here.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 02:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Bro these crazies have their own kids putting them on blast on social media.


And this, Father of the Year, threatened to kill his kids if they did so...

Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:00 PM
Just when I thought your posts couldn't be any more confusing/nonsensical... then you started using purple.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 03:57 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Keep on topic dude.


The ramblings of someone sounding like a lunatic that has no ammunition other than name calling is not a topic.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 08:14 PM
Quote:
Just read stories about grandpa being radicalised by fox news... that's programming. You don't just suddenly turn 1/3rd of 74 million people intro racist nazis without some programming.

Something we can agree on... if you watch BS long enough and intent enough and want desperately to believe it enough.. you sure will come out the other side programmed.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 08:20 PM
Indoctrination is similar. A belief or way of life can be programmed into people from childhood to present things as the only possible right answer to many things. Whether that be religion, politics or almost anything else.

One only needs to look at how much actual history of our nation we have to learn after leaving high school to find out the truth. The truth was often times ugly and and would not indoctrinate people into believing we are somehow some perfect country or always lived up to the equality and justice that has been falsely claimed for so long.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/19/21 08:41 PM
I think I've said this before, but Trevor Noah had a good quote on "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee":

"If you can find the right combination between fear and desperation, you can get people to believe almost anything."
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/20/21 02:14 AM
And then you have ass clowns like this trying to pin the divides on the left.

Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/20/21 02:18 AM
Pompeo is 100% correct.

The left tries to spread unity by canceling anyone who disagrees with them.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/20/21 02:34 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Pompeo is 100% correct.

The left tries to spread unity by canceling anyone who disagrees with them.
Well they'll never muzzle you Eve, so we can all be happy about that. thumbsup
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/20/21 02:39 AM
All this talk of unity is sickening to me, who wants unity with Nazis, racists, traitors, and insurrectionist? Once they have been hunted down, tried, and convicted we can call for unity. But there are a lot of GOPer leaders that have some serious explaining to do for the last four years too, and now with Trump not sitting I think we'll learn much more about 2016 Russiagate, Trump robbing the country blind, and all of the many many crimes committed by this fascist regime.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/20/21 04:14 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Pompeo is 100% correct.

The left tries to spread unity by canceling anyone who disagrees with them.


He is correct, but a statement like that coming from someone who's on the side that incited a riot to commit a coup and overturn a legit election is... hilariously hypocritical.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/20/21 04:36 PM
I just wonder if he is including anything to make life better for hard working Americans being called socialism and communism are included in his "isms"?
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/20/21 08:15 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I think you may be misunderstanding what the intent of the unity that is spoken of actually means. At least from my perspective. I think what is meant is that while we will still have our differences in ideologies, we won't see each other as the enemy.

Everyone is not going to agree. Unity doesn't mean we should all see things the same way. What it means is that we start to see that as Americans, we all want what we believe is the best path forward for America. We all have the best intentions in our beliefs.

And it's fine that you perceive what we are seeing as strictly based on " our individual choices and actions" and to a great extent I agree with you. But to boil it all down to that it would mean ignoring the fact that one party elected a man as president that says things to incite people. Like, "If the democrats get elected they will destroy America as you know it". "They are communists!", "We have to fight!".

You see, inciting people to violence isn't the same thing as having different ideologies. It's calling people with different ideologies the enemy of your nation. Here is what unity looks like...

It's not that we all agree. It's that we have differences and there is no need to sow the seeds of hate to have those differences.


I don't believe that I misunderstand what is meant by unity. I believe that most people don't understand why they subconsciously insert the word "unity" in place of "non-violence" or "peace". Why do people do this? The word implies "oneness". One way of doing things. One point of view. Unity is conformity. When people insert the word unity in place of peace, they are most likely doing so because they have a desire for unity to occur on their terms, but they don't really realize that they are making this distinction.

We can always achieve unity with another person, on any disagreement, by choosing to conform to other persons desires. It is 100% our own choice. Is anyone here willing to give up their support for their politics in order to achieve unity with their political opposition? It seems undeniable to me that each of the two parties perceives its perspective as the only one laying the foundation of reconciliation and unity and each side accuses the other of causing disunity.

Unity has nothing to do with all of us wanting the best path forward for America. Even members of the KKK want what they think is best for America. But we are not in unity with the KKK because we have a different vision for a better America. I do not desire unity with the KKK when it comes to issues of racial prejudice and civil rights.

Unity is just cheap talk about achieving peace when people aren't interested in making the necessary sacrifices to achieve peace like exhibit self control, forgiving others, or work toward compromise.

All politicians say the same thing:
"There can be no peace without unity" - Bashar al-Assad
"Without unity, there is no peace" - Joe Biden at today's inauguration
“Let us choose to move forward unified, for the good of our families, our communities, and our country" - Donald Trump
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 03:36 PM
Here's what you're missing. If you actually listened to what Biden said, he explained clearly that unity was not agreeing about everything. It was not seeing your political opponents as you enemy.

You parsed a single statement from Trump and not his overall message. Would you like to see MANY statements where he used division and hate to divide America? To claim that the press, the Democrats and even pretty much every Republican who dared to speak out against him or disagree with him was an enemy? Because there is one helluva lot of them. Here's just a taste of it leading up to and including Jan. 6th....

At a Georgia rally Jan. 4, Trump told supporters “we’re going to take what they did to us on Nov. 3. We’re going to take it back.”

In his speech before the riot, Trump praised supporters for showing up to “save our democracy.” He told supporters “we’re going to walk down to the Capitol ... You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.”

Dec. 26: Trump tweeted: "The ‘Justice’ Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th."

Jan. 4: At a rally in Georgia the day before the Senate runoffs, Trump repeated his grievances about his own election. He spoke about a continued fight, both for himself and the Senate.

"If the liberal Democrats take the Senate and the White House — and they’re not taking this White House — we’re going to fight like hell, I’ll tell you right now," Trump said.

"We’re going to take it back," Trump said.

Let's continue shall we?

"Our radical Democrat opponents are driven by hatred, prejudice and rage," he said, pointing to House efforts to investigate his 2016 campaign's ties to Russia and possible obstruction of justice by the president. "They want to destroy you and they want to destroy our country as we know it. Not acceptable, it’s not going to happen. Not going to happen."

Somehow you have trouble seeing the difference here. Somehow you think to parce bits and pieces tells a story. It doesn't. Trump has been going around for years now not standing on policy, not trying to show why his plans are better for America, but instead trying to portray anyone who isn't a blind follower of his as an enemy of our country.

If you can't see that I can't help you. Let's look at more than a single line from Biden to draw some clarity here. Something you either overlooked or ignored in your effort to claim that unity is only intended to be under one parties terms.

"And so today, at this time and this place, let’s start afresh, all of us. Let’s begin to listen to one another again, hear one another, see one another, show respect to one another. Politics doesn’t have to be a raging fire, destroying everything in its path. Every disagreement doesn’t have to be a cause for total war. And we must reject the culture in which facts themselves are manipulated and even manufactured

It's obvious from this it's not about everyone agreeing or accepting things only on a certain set of terms. It plainly points out that there will still be disagreements. That we will have different ideologies. It's about not being divided to the point that we see everyone who disagrees with us as our enemy.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 04:21 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Pompeo is 100% correct.

The left tries to spread unity by canceling anyone who disagrees with them.

There was an excellent segment on NPR this morning on this myth that it's liberals cancelling/silencing the Right ... plenty of examples of how both 'sides' tend to do this to some extent, statistically it is not one side doing it more than another. Hope others may have heard it.

Interestingly - on the topic of Parler - the same interviewees / panel felt very strongly that eliminating an entire platform where a segment was promoting violence and sedition was troubling and something that shouldn't be allowed. Silence the individuals who promote violence - yes - but don't reduce all the other different opinions and voices.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 04:34 PM
Here is the odd part of her post. Trump cancels out every dissenting voice by claiming they are the enemy and fake news. It's no different at all than what they claim the other side is doing.
Posted By: Jester Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 05:02 PM
So she is saying Trump is a libtard?
saywhat
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 05:14 PM
Shhhh, don't tell her. She has no idea. wink
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 05:59 PM
I agree with you on 99% of what you are saying, but I was not trying to make the point that Biden and Trump are exactly the same. I could make a list of 100 other politicians that have said similar clueless statements about unity. I was replying to the topic which was talking about unity amongst the people, not specific politicians. Remove Trump from the conversation, because I am not trying to defend him. My point is only that the word unity, despite the simple fact that "uni" means "one", the word seems to be misunderstood. Calls for unity are ineffective and pointless. Calling for unity is not the same as offering peace or encouraging non-violence. Calls for unity are nothing more than theater. It offers nothing and demands conformity from the opposition. In order to actually reconcile a conflict, there are really only two choices. You ether have to beat your enemy into submission or you have to seek a compromise that both sides can live with. Most politicians prefer the former for a variety of reasons. I suspect that the latter would be best for the people in 99% of situations.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 06:03 PM
So it's not actually the message Biden is trying to send you object to, but the verbiage used to express it?

Because I made it obvious that he described exactly what he meant and it's not that we should all agree. It's that we shouldn't see everyone who disagrees with us as our enemy.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 06:06 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Here is the odd part of her post. Trump cancels out every dissenting voice by claiming they are the enemy and fake news. It's no different at all than what they claim the other side is doing.

Yes but if you point out that both sides are built on lies, half-truths, hyperbole, and a whopping dose of fear...

each side will immediately want to argue with you about why their brand of lies, half-truths, hyperbole, and fear isn't nearly as bad or dangerous as the other side..
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 06:12 PM
Let's not pretend that the president of The United States promoting outright hatred and claiming people are stealing your country, are your enemy and you must fight to take your country back is an equal or opposite side here.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 06:37 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let's not pretend that the president of The United States promoting outright hatred and claiming people are stealing your country, are your enemy and you must fight to take your country back is an equal or opposite side here.

The months and months leading up to the election there was an article pretty much every day with some conspiracy theory about how Trump was trying to steal the election and how he could get away with it. Had he won, they had tons of articles out there to use as a foundation for how he stole the election from decommissioned mail sorting machines to closing poll centers to driving around removing mailboxes from poor neighborhoods... the ground work was all there for the big story of how Trump stole the election..

Then within hours of it looking like Biden won, the same media outlets were running stories on how safe and secure the election was and how it was "unstealable" and there couldn't have possibly been any fraud, that any attempt to question the integrity of the election was just stupid..

It really is kind of funny how people have memories that are about " " that long.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 06:59 PM
So you have zero examples of any top, leading Democratic officials promoting violence to overthrow a democratically ran election. You now are taking the fact that it was top republican elections officials in some of these states that said there was no wide spread voter fraud and attributing it to democrats. You make it sound like math is false. When you have less counting machines at post offices, less mail can be counted. Of course the timing of that would be questioned, it's math.

The only thing you seem to be able to come up with is what the media said. Yet I don't hear you say a word about what the other side of the media said.

And in case you missed it, the media isn't the President of The United States. It's not the people in congress and the senate. They are not people who swore to uphold the constitution as they were undermining it.

You have substituted the leader of the free world and our politicians in exchange for the press in a bait and switch con game to avoid the fact that it was the actual people who were elected to represent them advocating some wild conspiracy theories that led to where we are now.

Those are not the same thing.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 07:22 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So you have zero examples of any top, leading Democratic officials promoting violence to overthrow a democratically ran election. You now are taking the fact that it was top republican elections officials in some of these states that said there was no wide spread voter fraud and attributing it to democrats. You make it sound like math is false. When you have less counting machines at post offices, less mail can be counted. Of course the timing of that would be questioned, it's math.

The only thing you seem to be able to come up with is what the media said. Yet I don't hear you say a word about what the other side of the media said.

And in case you missed it, the media isn't the President of The United States. It's not the people in congress and the senate. They are not people who swore to uphold the constitution as they were undermining it.

You have substituted the leader of the free world and our politicians in exchange for the press in a bait and switch con game to avoid the fact that it was the actual people who were elected to represent them advocating some wild conspiracy theories that led to where we are now.

Those are not the same thing.




So basically that was a long winded, Daman answer of "Prove it".
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 07:31 PM
Unlike some people, most believe just blabbering out vomit doesn't provide evidence of anything.

But then coming from the crowd who believes this country was stolen from them based on falsehoods, conspiracies and zero evidence, I don't find your response surprising.

I have provided many quotes to substantiate things Republican officials have said only to incite people to anger. To claim anyone that doesn't agree with them are an enemy to the country. How the election was stolen from them. How democracy was stolen from them.

And now you expect others to be able to make unsubstantiated claims. Can't say I'm surprised. Accountability hasn't been a strong suit coming from the side that makes the false claim that's one of the very principals they stand for since trump came along.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 07:44 PM
The left doesn't need anyone in charge calling for violence. They do it all on their own.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/anti-biden-antifa-portland-police
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 07:46 PM
Thanks for helping make my point.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 09:03 PM
“United” States. Living in unity. Imagine?
Posted By: Squires Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 11:33 PM
In October 2017, Rep. Maxine Waters said, “I will go and take Trump out tonight

In August 2017, Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal said, “I hope Trump is assassinated!
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/21/21 11:47 PM

"Merciful heavens, I do declare!"...

...he said, while clutching tightly to his simple, classic strand of pearls.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/22/21 04:09 PM
While Trump instructed "his supporters" to knock people out at his rallies and said he would pay their legal bills. It seems there's some confusion about someone making a statement concerning their personal actions and working your entire base into a frenzy.
Posted By: Jester Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 12:47 AM
jc

The republicans clearly want unity saywhat


Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene files articles of impeachment against Joe Biden
Graeme Massie
Thu, January 21, 2021, 4:32 PM EST


https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-marjorie-taylor-greene-files-213258442.html
Posted By: Swish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 01:13 AM
She’s just being salty because she’s catching heat from her own party since the riots. Out here doubling down on the crazy. I thought that one dem who tried to impeach trump in 2017 was a snowflake.

Apparently the GOP doesn’t like being out done.
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 01:23 AM
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 01:32 AM
Crazy QAnon Karen over here...
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 01:42 AM
Originally Posted By: fishtheice
Where do you dig this stuff up? Why are people posting drunken rants on YouTube?
Posted By: Jester Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 02:10 AM
What is wrong with this woman and why does fish think her angry crazy rant strengthens his arguments
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 02:43 AM
j/c...



Self-styled militia members planned on storming the U.S. Capitol days in advance of Jan. 6 attack, court documents say
By Spencer S. Hsu, Tom Jackman and Devlin Barrett
Jan. 19, 2021 at 8:28 p.m. EST

Self-styled militia members from Virginia, Ohio and other states made plans to storm the U.S. Capitol days in advance of the Jan. 6 attack, and then communicated in real time as they breached the building on opposite sides and talked about hunting for lawmakers, according to court documents filed Tuesday.

While authorities have charged more than 100 individuals in the riot, details in the new allegations against three U.S. military veterans offer a disturbing look at what they allegedly said to one another before, during and after the attack — statements that indicate a degree of preparation and determination to rush deep into the halls and tunnels of Congress to make “citizens’ arrests” of elected officials.

U.S. authorities charged an apparent leader of the Oath Keepers extremist group, Thomas Edward Caldwell, 66, of Berryville, Va., in the attack, alleging that the Navy veteran helped organize a ring of dozens who coordinated their movements as they “stormed the castle” to disrupt the confirmation of President-elect Joe Biden’s electoral college victory.

“We have about 30-40 of us. We are sticking together and sticking to the plan,” co-defendant Jessica Watkins, 38, an Army veteran, said while the breach was underway, according to court documents.

“You are executing citizen’s arrest. Arrest this assembly, we have probable cause for acts of treason, election fraud,” a man replied, according to audio recordings of communications between Watkins and others during the incursion.

“We are in the main dome right now. We are rocking it. They are throwing grenades, they are fricking shooting people with paint balls. But we are in here,” a woman believed to be Watkins said, according to court documents.

A man then responds, “Get it, Jess,” adding, “This is .&#8201;.&#8201;. everything we f---ing trained for!”

The FBI said it recovered the exchange from Zello, a push-to-talk, two-way radio phone app.

FBI charging papers against Caldwell, Watkins and a third person, former U.S. Marine Donovan Crowl, 50, allege that Caldwell and others coordinated in advance to disrupt Congress, scouted for lodging and recruited Oath Keepers members from North Carolina and like-minded groups from the Shenandoah Valley. The group claims thousands of members who assert the right to defy government orders they deem improper. The plotters both anticipated violence and continued to act in concert after the break-in, investigators alleged in court documents. FBI papers also say that Caldwell suggested a similar event at the local level after the attack, saying in a message: “Lets storm the capitol in Ohio. Tell me when!”

The three are charged with five federal counts of conspiracy against the United States; obstructing an official government proceeding; impeding or injuring government officers; and destroying U.S. property, entering restricted grounds and disorderly conduct at the Capitol.

Attempts to reach attorneys for Caldwell, Watkins and Crowl have been unsuccessful. No one immediately responded to messages left at numbers connected to Caldwell.

Watkins, of Woodstock, Ohio, told the Ohio Capital Journal last week that she formed a group known as the Ohio State Regular Militia in 2019 and that it had patrolled 12 protests to “protect people” on both sides. She said she had served a tour in Afghanistan while in the Army. She also said she was a member of the Oath Keepers.

“I didn’t commit a crime. I didn’t destroy anything. I didn’t wreck anything,” Watkins said to the Journal, adding that the riot was a peaceful protest that turned violent.

Crowl’s mother, Teresa Rowe, said she was appalled to see pictures of him in the Capitol. She said he had become radicalized after leaving the Marine Corps.

“I wish I could tell people what happened to him, but I don’t know,” Rowe said.

The arrests this weekend of several people with alleged ties to far-right extremist groups, including the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters, suggest that the riot was not an entirely impulsive outburst of violence but an event instigated or exploited by organized groups. Hours of video posted on social media and pored over by investigators have focused on individuals in military-style gear moving together.

“This is the first step toward identifying and understanding that there was some type of concerted conspiracy here,” said one senior official with the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia, which is leading the investigation.

“Whether everyone else just happened to be there and got caught up in the moment, or if this is just the tip of the iceberg, how much this will grow at this point I can’t tell you, but we are continuing to investigate aggressively,” according to the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a pending investigation.

In charging papers, the FBI said that during the Capitol riot, Caldwell received Facebook messages from unspecified senders updating him of the location of lawmakers. When he posted a one-word message, “Inside,” he received exhortations and directions describing tunnels, doors and hallways, the FBI said.

Some messages, according to the FBI, included, “Tom all legislators are down in the Tunnels 3floors down,” and “Go through back house chamber doors facing N left down hallway down steps.” Another message read: “All members are in the tunnels under capital seal them in. Turn on gas,” the FBI added.

Other arrests Tuesday also underscored law enforcement’s concerns about threats to elected leaders, particularly because so many of the participants in the Jan. 6 chaos are still unidentified.

In New York, a Queens man who worked in the state court system was accused Tuesday of making threats to murder Democratic politicians, including suggesting another attack on the Capitol timed to Biden’s inauguration. The man was not at the riot on Jan. 6 but made threatening remarks about Democratic politicians beforehand that intensified in a video he posted two days later, which was titled “KILL YOUR SENATORS.” In the video, he encourages people to return to the Capitol and take up arms.

“If anybody has a gun, give it to me, I’ll go there myself and shoot them and kill them,” the man said, according to the FBI.

In Caldwell’s charging papers, the FBI said that it is reviewing communications between Cald­well “and other known and unknown Oath Keepers members.”

An FBI agent in court records said Caldwell helped organize a group of eight to 10 individuals led by Watkins. Members of the group are seen on video wearing helmets and military-style gear, and moving purposefully toward the top of the Capitol steps and leading the move against police lines, court records said.

A search of Watkins’s home in Ohio found numerous firearms, cellphones, pepper spray, a radio, a bag with a helmet and respirators, paintball guns, pool cues cut down to baton size, and zip/cable ties, as well a camouflage hat and jackets, the FBI said.

The FBI said without elaboration that it also recovered a document titled “Making Plastic Explosives from Bleach,” redacting the instructions in a photo exhibit.

According to a 23-page affidavit, Caldwell in Facebook messages said he scouted lodging for Watkins and others, starting at a Comfort Inn in Ballston, Va., about eight miles from the Capitol, that “would allow us to go hunting at night if we wanted to.”

In an apparent reference to Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes, Caldwell wrote Jan. 1: “I don’t know if Stewie has even gotten out his call to arms, but it’s a little friggin late. This is one we are doing on our own. We will link up with the north carolina crew.”

Meanwhile, the group was making contingency plans and focused on security, the FBI said. Caldwell said he would probably “do pre-strike on the 5th” and expected a man named Paul “will have the goodies in case things go bad and we need to get heavy.”

“Keep eyes on people with Red MAGA hats worn backward. Saw a report that they were going to infiltrate crowd tomorrow,” Crowl was warned Jan. 5 in another Facebook message, as he prepared for what he called an “Oathkeepers op,” court documents said.

“Thanks Brother, but we are WAY ahead on that. We have infiltrators in Their ranks. We are doing the W.H. in the am and early afternoon, rest up at the Hotel, then headed back out tomorrow night ‘tifa’ hunt’in. We expect good hunting,” Crowl responded, in an apparent reference to antifa counterdemonstrators, the FBI said.

At some point on the day of the riot, Watkins posted to the social media site Parler a photograph of herself in uniform, writing: “Me before forcing entry into the Capitol Building. #stopthesteal #stormthecapitol #oathkeepers #ohiomilitia,” the FBI said. She added a photo of Crowl in paramilitary gear and an Oath Keepers patch as “one of my guys,” and the pair allegedly took a selfie in video recorded in the Capitol Rotunda, the FBI said.

Caldwell also posted a message after the riot, court documents said: “Us storming the castle. Please share. .&#8201;.&#8201;. I am such an instigator!”

“Proud boys scuffled with cops and drove them inside to hide. Breached the doors. One guy made it all the way to the house floor, another to Pelosi’s office. A good time,” Caldwell added, according to the FBI.

In a Jan. 8 message to Crowl, the FBI said Caldwell added, “We stormed the gates of corruption together (although on opposite sides of the building) so between that and our first meeting and getting to know you since I can say we will always be brothers!”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/leg...819d_story.html
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 02:54 AM
Fish really likes to post things without actually getting what they are.

For months he posted articles from dubious sources that cited election fraud theories straight from QAnon.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 03:07 AM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Fish really likes to post things without actually getting what they are.


Priceless coming from you.

Now, go on and throw out big fancy words to make you feel superior.
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 03:19 AM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Where do you dig this stuff up? Why are people posting drunken rants on YouTube?


This woman is just expressing her opinion on Biden's speech from yesterday. She's not calling for the re-education of
Trump supporters or shock therapy and straight jackets for those that voted for Trump as seen on this board.

Evidently, you've never seen Keith Olbermann or TYT posting rants about Trump and his supporters on YouTube.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 03:39 AM
There’s Bat Poop Crazy and then there’s that lady.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 03:44 AM
Holy hell... are we not going to talk about this article??? Who are the inside sources I wonder. Capitol police?
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 03:53 AM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Holy hell... are we not going to talk about this article??? Who are the inside sources I wonder. Capitol police?


Those quotes from the FBI charges are nuts. This will be quite the story to watch unfold.
Posted By: Swish Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 03:58 AM
This is......

Wow.

I’m actually at a loss for words. That’s simply frightening to read.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 04:59 AM
Originally Posted By: fishtheice


saywhat

eek

saywhat

rolleyes

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

You get the point... 80 million of these- rofl
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 05:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Holy hell... are we not going to talk about this article??? Who are the inside sources I wonder. Capitol police?


Those quotes from the FBI charges are nuts. This will be quite the story to watch unfold.


Those charges are probably just the beginning and they already add up to a very long, maybe even life or death sentence. With all the chatter about politicians, senior officials, and police being involved, this is going to get ugly.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 05:51 AM
As many of you were wondering how this happened on the 6-8, I kept referring to “Killing In The Name” by Rage Against the Machine and posted plenty of information from reports in years past about law enforcement filled with white supremacists.

I can give you a few more links if you’re interested on the subject.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 03:14 PM
You didn't use any big words in your post. arch hates big words. You are wrong to have an expanded vocabulary. It's not a sign at all that you're educated or have good use of the English language. It's only a tool to make yourself feel superior. Just as arch. wink

I'm disappointed in you.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 03:57 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So it's not actually the message Biden is trying to send you object to, but the verbiage used to express it?

Because I made it obvious that he described exactly what he meant and it's not that we should all agree. It's that we shouldn't see everyone who disagrees with us as our enemy.


Language is how we think as a group. It's important to put it under the microscope, rip it apart, and get at what people are actually saying.

It's not an unimportant detail. People are conflating unity with peace and accountability with justice for a reason.

The point is to be able to identify empty rhetoric and differentiate that from when people are speaking with sincerity.

If Biden's speech writer had not used "unity" and used words like "reconciliation" and "forgiveness", Biden would have given it back to him and told him to fix it. No politician ever uses these words because they don't actually want peace. They simply want everyone to meet their demands.

I can give you an example of how important this is. I assume you have a significant other or have at some point in the past. Let's say you have an argument with them. Here are three options to consider in resolving the argument:
1. Negotiate a compromise.
2. Let the other party have their way. (some battles aren't worth fighting)
3. Call for unity. (This should just confuse them)
4. Attempt to hold them accountable. (I am not responsible for what happens if you actually try this)
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 04:06 PM
So it was the verbiage. Thanks.
Posted By: Jester Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 04:31 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So it was the verbiage. Thanks.


Re-read his post. I don't think it is the verbiage, but that the verbiage confuses him.

Very subtle difference yes, but I think that is his argument
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 05:23 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So it was the verbiage. Thanks.

I have no problem with anyone's choice of words if they mean what they are actually saying.
If you want unity, then it is easy to achieve. Just give up the things you want and meet the desires of your opposition.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/23/21 05:34 PM
Once again it's not the concept he is describing, it's the wording he used.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/24/21 10:32 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Once again it's not the concept he is describing, it's the wording he used.


Typically when I describe things, I use words that make sense make sense in the context of what I am trying to describe.

Rocket asked the question "Do we need unity without accountability?"

I answered the question.
In short, unity is not needed, accountability needs to be handled through the justice system.

You seem to want me to agree with you that unity means something that it doesn't, and you don't seem to be open to the idea that politicians actually mean what they are saying and believe that their words have something to do with not seeing each other as enemies. That's fine.
Should U.S citizens stop seeing each other as the enemy? Maybe, I don't know yet.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/24/21 11:37 PM
My entire point is going way above your head.

Quote:
accountability needs to be handled through the justice system


I think you missed the article that shows the justice system and law enforcement is rife with white supremacist elements.

Please read a bit more on this subject before spending post after post splitting the tiniest hairs on semantics.

If only people would seek to understand someone else's perspectives then maybe we wouldn't keep seeing these Bill Clinton arguments on definitions and semantics.
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 12:25 AM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist


If only people would seek to understand someone else's perspectives then maybe we wouldn't keep seeing these Bill Clinton arguments


"You may not realize you have engaged in a Soviet Totalitarian propaganda technique known as a whataboutism."
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 01:56 AM
Hah, Mr. I’m going to go post QAnon theories is trying to claim I used a whataboutism.

Fish, I clarified how the poster didn’t get the idea of the OP and made the point his argument about the subject at hand is analogous to Clinton’s impeachment defense.

That’s on-topic.

Please catch up.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 02:07 AM
Rand is another one that needs to go, total nutjob.

Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 02:12 AM
Rand Paul is a straight shooter and that libtard on ABC couldn't handle it.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 03:25 AM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist

I think you missed the article that shows the justice system and law enforcement is rife with white supremacist elements.


I did miss it and I find the idea extremely hard to believe. Police have many issues, I doubt large scale infiltration by white supremacist organizations is one of them.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 03:31 AM
In my opinion, George is grasping at straws in that interview. Regardless of the outcome of this last election or the severity of the election fraud issue, it is hard to argue against fixing election related problems if for no reason other than to not have to go through this again in four years.

Of course, the news benefits from the chaos. The viewership on FOX news, CNN, and NBC news doubled after the election, so you have to wonder if they actually want this to happen again in the future.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 04:49 AM
3000 taken away in handcuffs, that's what detained means.
In Communist Russia, people protest over the arrest of Alexi Navalny, opposition to communist Russia.

Happy if anyone wants to point out the contrasts between the USA under the Democrats and the Soviots' under the communists, but imo, they're becoming harder to find, any differences.

Here is Bbc on Navalny's arrest protests'.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55778334

Coming soon, or here already?
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 06:02 AM
He is getting more and more fringe.

From an objective level, the two of them are talking past each other. George is saying that the election was not fraudulent because it was certified by the states, that court cases threw out the challenges, and that Barr said there was no evidence. He’s right. That is the truth and that is not disputable.

However, Rand is saying that he did not feel it was appropriate to overturn the certification. He’s saying that there were examples of fraud and that states changed their methodology of collecting votes in a way that is unconstitutional, which is different from what George was talking about.

Now, that’s trying to be fair.

Now let’s call it out for what it is. Rand is trying to further the notion this was a fraudulent election. He hammers the standing aspect but also ignores the substantive dismissals. He also repeatedly talks over Stephanopolous and says that George is calling him a liar and all Republicans liars. He’s putting words in his mouth big time. This is an obvious use of hyperbole and it stokes a very dangerous notion. Nothing George said was false. What Rand should have said is that the two of them were making different points. He should have emphasized that this election was settled and that it was not appropriate to overturn but that he wants to ensure future efforts avoid the same quagmire. Instead, he went the Ted Cruz route

Kentucky does not know how to pick good Senators.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 08:38 AM
You find an official FBI report hard to believe?
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 12:21 PM
Too bad the FBI isn't all that trustworthy.

Watch "The Scheme" on HBO. A documentary about Christian Dawkins, a basketball scout who the FBI totally set up.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 01:06 PM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
3000 taken away in handcuffs, that's what detained means.
In Communist Russia, people protest over the arrest of Alexi Navalny, opposition to communist Russia.

Happy if anyone wants to point out the contrasts between the USA under the Democrats and the Soviots' under the communists, but imo, they're becoming harder to find, any differences.

Here is Bbc on Navalny's arrest protests'.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55778334

Coming soon, or here already?


The USA has watched a peaceful transfer of power 44 times, until trump came along. Russia has had evil dictators ruling over them for hundreds of years. Face it trump and his supporters incited insurrection. They need to be held accountable for their crimes. Pffft the GOP, the party of law and order is a joke.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 01:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Too bad the FBI isn't all that trustworthy.



I've said it before - your world must be scary.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 01:16 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Rand Paul is a straight shooter and that libtard on ABC couldn't handle it.


Straight Shooter?

HE was asked to agree / state the election was not stolen. And he wouldn't.

Ergo he thinks or he is trying to promote and continue the idea the election was stolen. That's not being straight.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 04:17 PM
Originally Posted By: fishtheice
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Where do you dig this stuff up? Why are people posting drunken rants on YouTube?


This woman is just expressing her opinion on Biden's speech from yesterday. She's not calling for the re-education of
Trump supporters or shock therapy and straight jackets for those that voted for Trump as seen on this board.

Evidently, you've never seen Keith Olbermann or TYT posting rants about Trump and his supporters on YouTube.


I do, and if they don't get similarly called out, then I do so. I'd put her against Olberman's worst in terms of bat-ish crazy political stupidity.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 04:21 PM
So Olberman is, "The Worst Person In The World!" wink
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 04:28 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So Olberman is, "The Worst Person In The World!" wink
I'm no fan of Olberman at all, so I'm not the right person to ask if you were looking for an argument to that statement.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 04:51 PM
naughtydevil

It's actually a joke. He used to do a segment on his show every night he called, "The Worst Person In The World". He would pick a story about someone doing or saying something stupid and call them out in that segment.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 05:46 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Too bad the FBI isn't all that trustworthy.



I've said it before - your world must be scary.



No, it really isn't.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 09:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Too bad the FBI isn't all that trustworthy.



I've said it before - your world must be scary.



No, it really isn't.


You don't have faith in your top law enforcement agency in the country. You indicated you believe the fraudulent voters changed the result of the election and that they are smarter (unable to be caught) than the people running our countries election. . . . that sounds like the definition of living in a very corrupt country.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/25/21 09:56 PM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
You find an official FBI report hard to believe?

In my opinion, news organizations have a financial interest in magnifying the importance and scale of information in order to create shocking headlines.

I could be wrong, but I have to balance this information against my own life experience. I have been alive for awhile now and been all over this country. I have yet to knowingly meet a person that was a member of a white supremacist organization (not that I am trying to find them). I have met plenty of police and never seen any indicators of extremism of any kind. So I don't know how to square this with news outlet stories that make it seem like this is a giant problem everywhere.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/26/21 02:12 AM
Again, this isn’t a media thing. The FBI, a federal bureau of investigation which is not a media organization, released a report that warned of white nationalist infiltration.

A lot of it is covert these days. I have more reports and investigations to help you identify common symbols of white national sympathies. Let me know if you’re interested in this material.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/26/21 04:12 PM
When the FBI says things they don't want to hear, the answer is to say the FBI isn't trustworthy. Yet the people who were running it were appointed by Republicans. Actually, appointed by Trump. When the Department of Homeland security reports that White supremacists and other far-right-wing extremists are the most significant domestic terrorism threat facing the our nation, even though it's Republican appointees running homeland security, they don't want to believe it. When the DHS reports that white supremacist groups have killed more people than any other domestic violent extremist group in our nation, they don't want to believe it.

I mean look at it. Bill Barr, a Trump appointee, said after investigating there was no wide spread voter fraud. Look at how many of them refuse to believe him too.

We now live in a world where facts no longer matter and people base their beliefs on "feelings".
Posted By: s003apr Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 01:36 AM
You are constructing strawmen. Nobody suggested that the FBI was not trustworthy nor that white supremacist organizations should not be watched for terrorist threats.

Given the intent of that FBI report, the amount of information redacted, the date it was authored, and the difficulty in carrying out such a planned infiltration of police departments, I find it a little difficult to see as a significant threat. It is like something from a Robert Ludlum novel.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 01:38 AM
Moving the goalposts AND flip-flopping faster than John Kerry.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 03:07 AM
No, actually peen said he didn't trust the FBI. In black and white. (Or orange and black)
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 03:53 AM
Quote:
We now live in a world where facts no longer matter and people base their beliefs on "feelings".



I've lost count of the number of times I've read posts like the type you've described. Each time, I've been reminded of a quote by Adam Savage on "Mythbusters."

The results of an experiment contradicted Adam's hypotheses, and Jamie Hyneman laid out the pain truth for everyone- on camera, and in Adam's face. Based on facts. With visual evidence, filmed in real time. There was only one response Savage could make, in light of the smoke that Jamie blew up his skirt that day.

Adam: "I reject your reality, and substitute my own."

Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 09:59 AM
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Quote:
We now live in a world where facts no longer matter and people base their beliefs on "feelings".



I've lost count of the number of times I've read posts like the type you've described. Each time, I've been reminded of a quote by Adam Savage on "Mythbusters."

The results of an experiment contradicted Adam's hypotheses, and Jamie Hyneman laid out the pain truth for everyone- on camera, and in Adam's face. Based on facts. With visual evidence, filmed in real time. There was only one response Savage could make, in light of the smoke that Jamie blew up his skirt that day.

Adam: "I reject your reality, and substitute my own."


What was the experiment.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 12:55 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
No, actually peen said he didn't trust the FBI. In black and white. (Or orange and black)


I said I didn't think they were all that trustworthy. That isn't the same as me not not trusting them.

I think they can be motivated by politics and thus, can bend the investigation to one side or the other to make the shoe fit.

I mean, look at the uproar over local police. The call is for police reform. Their trustworthiness comes in to question all the time. Just because the FBI is the federal hammer doesn't make them sacred.

Think about it. Who investigates them?
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 01:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Quote:
We now live in a world where facts no longer matter and people base their beliefs on "feelings".



I've lost count of the number of times I've read posts like the type you've described. Each time, I've been reminded of a quote by Adam Savage on "Mythbusters."

The results of an experiment contradicted Adam's hypotheses, and Jamie Hyneman laid out the pain truth for everyone- on camera, and in Adam's face. Based on facts. With visual evidence, filmed in real time. There was only one response Savage could make, in light of the smoke that Jamie blew up his skirt that day.

Adam: "I reject your reality, and substitute my own."



Absolutely. You see it all over the place, this board included.

"I think such and such" is stated as fact... while also being deliberately obtuse in response to facts that are inconvenient.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 01:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: mgh888
No, actually peen said he didn't trust the FBI. In black and white. (Or orange and black)


I said I didn't think they were all that trustworthy. That isn't the same as me not not trusting them.

I think they can be motivated by politics and thus, can bend the investigation to one side or the other to make the shoe fit.

I mean, look at the uproar over local police. The call is for police reform. Their trustworthiness comes in to question all the time. Just because the FBI is the federal hammer doesn't make them sacred.

Think about it. Who investigates them?


Really? Really? You needed to ask this question? Didn’t they teach you anything in school? No wonder this country is so screwed up.

“The attorney general. Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI's intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.”
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 03:34 PM
In times like these, the art of backtracking can only be done with semantics.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 03:44 PM
Originally Posted By: s003apr
You are constructing strawmen. Nobody suggested that the FBI was not trustworthy nor that white supremacist organizations should not be watched for terrorist threats.

Given the intent of that FBI report, the amount of information redacted, the date it was authored, and the difficulty in carrying out such a planned infiltration of police departments, I find it a little difficult to see as a significant threat. It is like something from a Robert Ludlum novel.


Yes, Peen more than "suggested" the FBI wasn't trustworthy. i mean if you're still going to make the claim that words have meaning. You really haven't followed the rise of white supremacy have you?

DHS Report Says White Supremacist Groups Are Deadliest US Terror Threat

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2...c-terror-threat

White Supremacists Killed More Americans Than Muslim Extremists in Recent Years, Terrorism Report Shows

https://www.newsweek.com/white-supremaci...t-shows-1517096

Trying to minimize what's going on here is how we got to what happened on January sixth. It has been proven that a lot of former military and police officers were involved. It's time our security officials get to the bottom of it rather than try to act like it's not that big of a deal.

And they are. Because they know what's going on. Unlike those trying to dismiss it as some kind of fictional novel.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 04:17 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: mgh888
No, actually peen said he didn't trust the FBI. In black and white. (Or orange and black)


I said I didn't think they were all that trustworthy. That isn't the same as me not not trusting them.

I think they can be motivated by politics and thus, can bend the investigation to one side or the other to make the shoe fit.

I mean, look at the uproar over local police. The call is for police reform. Their trustworthiness comes in to question all the time. Just because the FBI is the federal hammer doesn't make them sacred.

Think about it. Who investigates them?


Really? Really? You needed to ask this question? Didn’t they teach you anything in school? No wonder this country is so screwed up.

“The attorney general. Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI's intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.”



Good, you thought about it. I wasn't asking because I didn't know. The AG and director are appointed by the President. It's a political arm of whoever is in the White House.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 04:24 PM
You can't base everything you think about the office of AG by the way Trump used it.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 04:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: mgh888
No, actually peen said he didn't trust the FBI. In black and white. (Or orange and black)


I said I didn't think they were all that trustworthy. That isn't the same as me not not trusting them.


Hmmm. If someone or a body is not trustworthy ... then you don't trust them.

You can try to debate the definition of what "is" is -- but you wrote what you wrote and the intention and meaning is only debatable in your head.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 04:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
The AG and director are appointed by the President. It's a political arm of whoever is in the White House.


An appointment does not mean they are the political arm of the POTUS. That has been understand in every single administration with the exception of Trump's .... what you wrote is so wrong and goes against so much of the Norms of how Government and the DOJ is supposed to operate. Truly ... just wow.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 04:58 PM
Well...it wasn't until Trump fired Comey.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 06:31 PM
Quote:
Really? Really? You needed to ask this question? Didn’t they teach you anything in school? No wonder this country is so screwed up.

“The attorney general. Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI's intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.”

So you just made his point. Everybody you listed that the FBI reports to and who has final say in what the FBI investigates and how they investigate it is a political appointee.. somebody put in place by a politician of a political party, and therefore COULD and SHOULD constantly have their motives questioned. I generally trust the FBI field officers to do their job, I have less trust for those who pull the strings on what that job is..
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 06:38 PM
Yet typically an FBI director is appointed for ten years and serves presidents of both parties. Comey was appointed by Obama in 2013 but is a registered Republican. Which indicates quite strongly that political affiliation isn't a major consideration.

They must also be approved by the senate which in the case of Comey was controlled by the Republican party in 2013. That makes it a bipartisan appointment.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 06:52 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
Really? Really? You needed to ask this question? Didn’t they teach you anything in school? No wonder this country is so screwed up.

“The attorney general. Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI's intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.”

So you just made his point. Everybody you listed that the FBI reports to and who has final say in what the FBI investigates and how they investigate it is a political appointee.. somebody put in place by a politician of a political party, and therefore COULD and SHOULD constantly have their motives questioned. I generally trust the FBI field officers to do their job, I have less trust for those who pull the strings on what that job is..


No, I didn’t make his point. I answered a question that everyone should know. It’s trump and trump supporters and the proud boys, kkk or whatever they call themselves, that want to question the judicial arm of the government who distrust the FBI and are unlawfully rioting and inciting insurrection. Like I said it’s no wonder this country is so screwed up.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 07:03 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Yet typically an FBI director is appointed for ten years and serves presidents of both parties. Comey was appointed by Obama in 2013 but is a registered Republican. Which indicates quite strongly that political affiliation isn't a major consideration.

They must also be approved by the senate which in the case of Comey was controlled by the Republican party in 2013. That makes it a bipartisan appointment.


That was than ... Trump destroyed so many norms and protocols, we may never get it back to what it was. Even down to running departments under "Acting Heads" because Trump couldn't / wouldn't nominate candidates that were worthy. Yay Murica !
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 10:08 PM
j/c...

Posted By: mac Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/27/21 10:21 PM
I sure would like to see what the FBI has uncovered...

Every time they investigate an individual, they cease the electronic devices and analyze every bit of communications they find.

All that info has to be a gold mine of potentially incriminating information. Putting the puzzle together might take some time but as of now..as of this bulletin, they may have uncovered enough to release a "heads up" to America's law-abiding citizens.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/31/21 03:49 AM
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/31/21 04:39 AM
Stop stanning them.

They’re part of the problem.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/31/21 06:25 AM
Maybe when they quit being so good at these videos... and I'm not stan.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/31/21 07:28 AM
Their videos generate clicks and potential revenue for a group who wants neoliberals at best or a return to the B2 stealth bomber racism that existed before Trump.

Hard pass. I won’t fall for their grift.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/31/21 11:30 AM
GC.
I wonder if any democrat would actually do anything good for the people who live "in" the usa in the next 4 years. rofl everybody knows they won't.

I don't think anyone could be a citizen in heart and vote for what the democrats do.

seizure- is taking something, like when stuff is forfeited to an investigation.

Maybe one of these liberals could show where a democrat ever does any good for people who live and come from inside the usa
(and stabbing in the back does not count)
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 01/31/21 03:17 PM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
GC.
I wonder if any democrat would actually do anything good for the people who live "in" the usa in the next 4 years. rofl everybody knows they won't.

I don't think anyone could be a citizen in heart and vote for what the democrats do.

seizure- is taking something, like when stuff is forfeited to an investigation.

Maybe one of these liberals could show where a democrat ever does any good for people who live and come from inside the usa
(and stabbing in the back does not count)



We tried to supply you with free public education... well we see how that turned out. Yikes!
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/01/21 07:41 PM
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
GC.
I wonder if any democrat would actually do anything good for the people who live "in" the usa in the next 4 years. rofl everybody knows they won't.

I don't think anyone could be a citizen in heart and vote for what the democrats do.

seizure- is taking something, like when stuff is forfeited to an investigation.

Maybe one of these liberals could show where a democrat ever does any good for people who live and come from inside the usa
(and stabbing in the back does not count)



We tried to supply you with free public education... well we see how that turned out. Yikes!


Except that’s never been tried. Yikes.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/06/21 07:29 AM
These Trumpian big lie lawsuits sure have the bodies dropping in accountability.

Fox Business suddenly cancels 'Lou Dobbs Tonight,' its highest-rated show

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/05/media/lou-dobbs-fox-show-canceled/index.html
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/06/21 03:13 PM
Rudy Giuliani Fumes on Air About ‘Insulting’ Disclaimer Added to His Radio Show

“They got to warn you about me?” Giuliani asks, before launching into baseless claims about voter fraud

Rudy Giuliani was pretty incensed on his radio show Thursday after a disclaimer was added to the show during a commercial break.

WABC Radio inserted in the following statement before cutting back to Giuliani’s show: “The views, assumptions and opinions expressed by former U.S. Attorney, former attorney to the President of the United States and New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, his guests and callers on the program are strictly their own, and do not necessarily represent the opinions, beliefs or policies of WABC Radio, its owner Red Apple Group and other WABC hosts or our advertisers.”

“I would have thought they would have told me about that before just doing what they just did,” Giuliani said after he came back on air. “Rather insulting.”

Giuliani then tried to make the disclaimer some sort of free speech issue. “Gives you a sense of how far this free speech thing has gone. And how they frighten everybody. I mean, we’re in America, we’re not in East Germany. They got to warn you about me? I’m going to have to give that a lot of consideration. I also think putting it on without telling me, not the right thing to do. Not the right thing to do at all.”

Naturally, he said this during this show, which absolutely had not been canceled, which was still being aired and which he was still allowed to speak on.

Throughout the rest of his show, Giuliani continued to advance the same old lies and false claims about 2020 election fraud he’s been making since last year. And even some of his listeners seem to have grown tired of it, as evidenced by a caller who asked Giuliani if he felt “somewhat guilty about spreading a lot of unproven conspiracy theories to folks who may not have the ability or critical thinking skills” and if maybe Giuliani was “taking advantage of the gullible.”

Giuliani replied by repeating the false claims. “I know that they stole 30,000 votes in Georgia, I have the tape of it,” and proceeded to then argue with the caller that Biden stole the election and that most of the votes were “illegal.” None of those things are true.

It’s unclear why the disclaimer was added, but it might be to insulate the radio from potential legal exposure. In recent weeks right wing media outlets have been threatened with lawsuits from voting machine makers Dominion Voting Systems and Smartmatic.

On Thursday Smartmatic sued Giuliani and Fox News for $2.7 billion for defamation and spreading lies that their machines were involved in tampering with the 2020 election results. Giulani is also currently facing a $1.3 billion lawsuit filed by Dominion.

Giuliani is no stranger to public gaffes. Just in the final two three months of 2020, he was made a laughingstock by Sacha Baron Cohen in “Borat 2,” he leaked what appeared to be hair dye all over his face during a press conference, he kept calling the wrong numbers while trying to convince senators to overthrow the 2020 election, and also butt-dialed an NBC News reporter.

https://www.thewrap.com/rudy-giuliani-fu...his-radio-show/
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/06/21 04:23 PM
j/c

After legal threat, Fox airs news package debunking election fraud claims made by its own hosts

If President Trump tunes into Fox News this weekend, he may see something unexpected: a point-by-point fact-check to wild election fraud claims made by some of his favorite hosts on the network.

After voting technology company Smartmatic sent Fox News a blistering legal threat that accused the network of participating in a "disinformation campaign" against it, the network has started airing a remarkable news package debunking claims its hosts and guests have propagated.

The package aired for the first time Friday night on Lou Dobbs' show. Fox News said the same package would air Saturday night on Jeanine Pirro's program as well as Sunday morning on Maria Bartiromo's show. All three hosts, who use their platforms to air pro-Trump propaganda, are close with the President.

The stunning news package featured an interview with voting technology expert Eddie Perez, who poured cold water on a series of conspiracy theories that have been amplified and promoted on the shows of Dobbs, Pirro, and Bartiromo.

Perez said, for instance, that he had not seen any evidence that Smartmatic software was used to manipulate the election or that there was a direct connection between the company and liberal philanthropic billionaire George Soros.

As Trump has continued to attack the integrity of the voting system, some of his allies have homed in on Smartmatic because of the services it provided Los Angeles County for the 2020 election.

The baseless conspiracy theories peddled about Smartmatic, which mimic those pushed against Dominion Voting Systems, falsely suggest that the company's technology allowed the November vote to be rigged against Trump.
Some strains of the conspiracy theory have aimed to tie the company to Soros and the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez.

When asked for comment on the surreal news package Fox aired, Erik Connolly, an attorney for Smartmatic, told CNN, "We cannot comment due to potential litigation." A Fox News spokesperson referred CNN back to the segment itself and did not comment further.

In its legal notice to Fox News, dated December 10, Smartmatic identified several instances in which conspiracy theories were spread on its air by either Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani or former Trump campaign lawyer Sidney Powell. The legal notice, which stated assertions made about Chavez and Soros have no truth to them, also identified instances in which Dobbs and Bartiromo helped spread false information.

Perez, who has a history providing insight to news organizations, told CNN on Saturday afternoon that the interview process with Fox was unusual. Perez said, for instance, that the network would not tell him which show the piece would be aired on and that he found it strange the interview was not conducted by an on-air reporter or host.

"I was never informed that the content would be for Mr. Dobbs' show," Perez told CNN. "And my reaction was to observe as many others have how kind of strange and unique that particular way at presenting the facts was."

"I am not accustomed to seeing Lou Dobbs air very straight forward factual evidence," Perez added, noting it was unusual for the news package to simply end with no comment from Dobbs and then cut to a commercial break.
"I think my main reaction was one of surprise and to think to myself that it was very interesting to see how the interview ultimately played out because I had not been given any reason to expect that was the nature of the story," Perez said.

Perez also said that he was not made aware prior to the interview that the questions would be solely focused on Smartmatic.

"There was nothing in any of the preliminary conversations that I had with Fox News that gave me any indication that Smartmatic would be a matter of conversation," Perez said. "It was never mentioned that this was going to be a discussion about Smartmatic or even claims about private vendors. I was anticipating a broader discussion about the debate around the election, election integrity, so on and so forth."

Asked to describe Fox's coverage of the election, Perez said that its on-air talent has made allegations "that are speculative and not based in fact, many of which are harmful to enhancing public confidence in the legitimacy of election outcomes."

But Perez expressed gratitude for being allowed to deliver the facts to the Fox audience in an unfiltered way.

"I felt it was important to talk to Fox News," Perez told CNN, "if anything potentially more important to be speaking the facts to their audience because there are a lot of consumers of Fox News that have doubts about the election."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/19/business/fox-smartmatic-news-package/index.html
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/06/21 04:58 PM
They are ready to admit they lied when somebody is about to hit them in the purse... deplorables acting deplorably.
Posted By: mac Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/06/21 05:01 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
These Trumpian big lie lawsuits sure have the bodies dropping in accountability.

Fox Business suddenly cancels 'Lou Dobbs Tonight,' its highest-rated show

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/05/media/lou-dobbs-fox-show-canceled/index.html


Every once in a while, during the run up to election day and especially during the time after the election, when Trump was doing all he could to overturn Bidden's election victory, I would watch the Fox News anchors, Lou Dobbs and Maria Bartiromo...and I wondered how do they get away with this?...the lying!

IMO, there was no doubt that the entire Fox team was doing all they could to help Trump, even if it meant repeating Trump's "LIES"...along with the same lies that the Trump lawyers (Rudy, Sidney, Lin) and Trump himself were claiming.

How in the hell does Fox and their talking heads get away with their lies?

Well, I guess they don't always get away with their lying. It seems that the figure "$2.7 billion"... quickly got their attention..Lou Dobbs, GONE!

Is Maria next?
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/06/21 05:09 PM
How do they get away with it? They work with Trump to convince his followers and their viewers that it's everyone else who is fake news so they only listen to them. Then they fill their heads full of lies and fake news.

It's fake news calling everyone else fake news. That's how they get away with it.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 12:35 AM
I've heard rumors that there may be a twitter lead large class action against fox for the radicalization of the elderly and destruction/damages to families based on their admitting these lies to avoid being sued. Rut ro.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 02:02 AM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
j/c

After legal threat, Fox airs news package debunking election fraud claims made by its own hosts


You know the really funny thing - the crazies and Cult of Trump and the posters who promote Qanon theories (while claiming not to have heard of Qanon) are all likely to read that and thing "THE FIX IS IN" - cancel culture ! They are more likely to think that than to realize the simple truth is that Trump and Rudi and all the sycophant cronies like Hawley and Nunes ... we're knowingly and willing lying.

Fun times.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 02:06 AM
The weird part is that the posters who promote quanon theories on this forum are liberals. You people crap your pants in your eagerness to blabber on about it.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 01:20 PM
It's not weird they created it. They have no interest in the truth.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 03:58 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
The weird part is that the posters who promote quanon theories on this forum are liberals. You people crap your pants in your eagerness to blabber on about it.


No, the QAnon theories are promoted by Republicans. They think just because they didn't hear them directly from QAnon they aren't promoting QAnon conspiracy theories.

That's why you keep blabbering on about it.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 04:12 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
The weird part is that the posters who promote quanon theories on this forum are liberals. You people crap your pants in your eagerness to blabber on about it.


No, the QAnon theories are promoted by Republicans. They think just because they didn't hear them directly from QAnon they aren't promoting QAnon conspiracy theories.


100% truth.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 04:13 PM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
It's not weird they created it. They have no interest in the truth.

rofl
Irony at it's best.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 04:16 PM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
It's not weird they created it. They have no interest in the truth.


This is how things like QAnon start. Somebody completely clueless offers up something ridiculous and it somehow becomes their truth. Why the hell would liberals promote this garbage? Sure they will point out how NUTS it all is and give examples, but even those GOPers denying they even know what it is know that it's from the far right. If they say otherwise, they are lying.

Yep, that's the new GOPer/MAGA/Q excuse, I don't even know what it is... I call BS. You may not have known it was Q related stuff you were talking about and spreading but the entire right has been doing it for months! Politicians, churches, and the far right internet have been spreading these lies and delusions as truth and the hate bias against 'libtards' allows them believe it.

And while I'm on this rant, I think 'libtards' is a political slur based on a word long known to be offensive in the mental health world when referring to learning disabilities and mental capacity. Yet on this board it's use is commonplace while disparaging remarks against the almost insane right is taboo. Pffft.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 04:55 PM
" why would liberals promote this garbage"

It benefits liberals immensely.
It is a label, a stigma liberals can attach to or use to discredit anyone who doesn't follow the liberals' big lie of falsehoods line of thinking.

In an attempt to shut down, or silence anyone who speaks up for the truth, they can make up "Q'anon" this time, it could have just as easily would have been like making up "alien space ships"

see if I (a liberal in this hypothetical) can say anyone who speaks up for the truth, believes in crazy little spacemen, then I can shut them all down and ignore them instead of hear the truth,
in all attempts to force everyone to accept my lie, or else! or else I'll pound them! or else I'll take their media off the air!
Or else I'll sue them for 2.7 billion dollars for not believing my lie as I told them to.
And If I have the FBI and the DOJ and the Pentagon, and several Military Generals on my side,
they'll get the message, they will or we will round them all up and put them in camps.

(That's why the heck the left would invent Q'anon)
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 05:01 PM
Did dems make up the crowd of GOPer insurrectionist and that cast of Q followers? Did we make up MTG? Did we make up website after website of far right radicals talking about and promoting these things?

I think you and people like you need it to be the dems so you don't have to realize the lie you are living and how messed up the people in your circles are. I can understand that need, but it's not reality.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 05:03 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Yet on this board it's use is commonplace while disparaging remarks against the almost insane right is taboo. Pffft.


You just used the word 3 times in your post, are your going to claim those 3 uses came from the right, or republicans as you claim your side claims the constant use of the word "qanon" comes from them, when some leftist big media probably invented the whole concept of Qanon as an idea,
and we, because we don't watch the network left wing media, have never heard of it.

Someone's been pulling the wool over your sides eyes, it is your leftist big network, fake news, media.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 05:12 PM
rofl

Yeah, all of those Q signs at Trump rallies and at the insurrection were just photoshopped in.

The FACT that the right wing media has repeated Qanon conspiracy theories aren't catering to them.

notallthere
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 05:13 PM
Well it's hard to talk about using the word without USING THE WORD. And the wool over our eyes... another dem plot in your mind, that we invented the word to degrade ourselves just to blame GOPers? Q is that you?
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 05:28 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
rofl

Yeah, all of those Q signs at Trump rallies and at the insurrection were just photoshopped in.

The FACT that the right wing media has repeated Qanon conspiracy theories aren't catering to them.

notallthere


Reporting real events and quoting people with what they actually say is considered FAKE NEWS. So don't expect different.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 06:05 PM
Kinda like Biden, circa 2016, saying "if you rule by executive order, you're a dictator", and now Biden signing the most executive order in the first 2 or 3 weeks of any president, ever?
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 06:11 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG


Yeah, all of those Q signs at Trump rallies


Like Biden said, "It's an idea, not an organization" or something like that concerning Antifa and all their A signs and flags... notallthere
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/07/21 06:12 PM
Only to undo Trump's executive orders. So is undoing the executive orders you railed against the same thing? Putting things back as they were before Trump abused executive orders is the same thing?
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Unity Without Accountability? - 02/08/21 06:40 PM
rofl over your trump loving tears. rofl
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