link

honestly of all the cases of police brutality, this one bothered me the most.

i literally felt like that was me right there. it just lets you know that as a minority, you can check all the boxes of "patriotism" and "pride for your country" as much as you want....we'll always be viewed and treated less than equal.

this would never happen to a white officer in the Army. the way they are talking to this LT....seriously this how cops are trained?

or does this training only apply to people of a different skin tone...

Dude got fired, though I'll bet that's little consolation to the soldier in the video.

especially since these cops get fired then head to the next county over and get another job.

"What's going on? You're fixin' to ride the lighting, son," Gutierrez said, according to the lawsuit and body camera video.

______

like seriously, who the hell talks like that?

dudes who were looking for a reason to act like bad asses, thats who. and found a perfect target.

Power hungry asshat.

Yeah, I dunno.... I'd like to think that departments/precincts are starting to catch on to the risk to themselves when they bring in guys with a resume that includes a viral youtube video.

Wanna be Dirty Harry's that were bullied in high school and wearing a chip on their shoulders. Now they have a badge that gives them what they think is the power to act like that.

What we have is a textbook example of a failure to communicate and police drawing guns way to early.

Police escalation of a situation that did not require any use of weapons.

So an Army Officer should have an even better understanding of obeying police commands.

Than, ( a border crosser?), or even the Americans who exist outside of a military command structure.

Jesus said there'd be days like this.

Yes, he warned us about people like you.

I have been pulled over a few times as an adult and I have never been treated like this... not even close.

Stepping back for a moment and trying to look at it in a cold and logical manner.

I can understand the officers adopting a more aggressive posture if someone doesn't pull over in a timely manner and then refuses to leave the vehicle. So I guess I can understand opening things up with guns at the ready. What is inexcusable (imo) is their escalating of the situation and refusal to de-escalate. I don't see why, if someone can show that they're not a threat to the officers and not a threat to take off (which this guy was doing non-stop once he pulled over and stopped the vehicle), why they aren't supposed to start chilling out. I thought I read that he took his time in pulling over, but it looks like he's at a gas station. Is it really so egregious for a black dude to wait until he gets to a more public (and well-lit) place before pulling over? Hell, I've driven a little longer than I was comfortable with the flashy flashies behind me just so I could get to a side street or parking lot.

I actually think a black man in our society would be making a terrible choice if he didn't find a well lit public place to pull over.

Sometimes, circumstance makes this impossible.

I can't begin to tell you how terrifying it is on those occasions.

Oh please! GMAFB

It's easy to dismiss something you have never experienced by ignoring the experiences of others.

disgusting.... the cop should never be allowed to be a cop again... no reason he couldn't de-escalate that situation... the guy was clearly no threat and amazingly stayed calm the entire time.... just unreal...

You know the dance.
He’s never experienced racism... so there is no racism.
It rained in his town... there is no drought in Africa.

No smack talk this time, even though that's kind of our thing. This issue is too important.

When I was 12, My Father sat me down to give me The Talk. How to behave when interacting with police. At least a couple times per year I'd get The Talk again. When I started driver training at 16, I got the revised version: license/reg on dash, open glove box, turn on dome light during a night stop, hands at 10 & 2, no sudden movements, yes sir/no sir. And yes, it's good advice for anyone, but for young men who don't look like you, it's essential training. Absolutely essential.

The video at the top of this thread is exactly why our fathers give us this lesson. It happens more often than you would ever think.

And by the way- My Father wore the badge for 30 years. Inspector: Uniform Division. One slot below Chief. So if he saw the need to educate his son, don't you think there might be a good reason?

I wasn't lying. Fight/flight response kicks in the instant those lights start flashing, and the adrenaline stays in the system for at least a half-hour afterward. Dry mouth, control your breathing, metallic taste in the back of the throat...

It's awful. Every time. And you might think that I'd have gotten used to it, since I was pulled over at least 2-3 times a year from the time I bought my first car until I was in my 30's... but you'd be wrong.

To be fair, my buddy back in college had to explain to me like 3 times (because I didn't believe him) why he couldn't go into Little Italy (CWRU campus) to grab some food. I honestly, at that point, just didn't believe that that kind of thing was still going on.

I bet a real man like you craps his pants every time he passes a black teen in a hoodie... You make me sick. I still find it hard to believe you ever served. It's a shame we can't really give people like you the "watermelon man" treatment and make you black while you sleep so you can wake up to a new reality... Don't bother replying because I won't read another damn thing from you.

OK, no smack. Have you ever had a problem since the talk. Ihad the same talk and always was polite. Most of the time I knew I was in the wrong.

There was one cowboy cop in Mansfield at the time who gave everybody a hard time. Nobody I knew refused to answer questions or refused to get out of the car or resisted in any way. If you did you got you're ass beat.

An experience glossed over by many here no doubt and something utterly unrelatable to most / all of us? I've been pulled over 7 or 8 times in my lifetime ... always for speeding. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that 99% of the time you got stopped you were not speeding.

A couple times. I know I've talked about one of those events some years ago. It was dicey as hell, and I really thought it might have been my last day. I'll see if I can find it. Don't feel like reliving it by hanging out out again on a keyboard.

Pretty pitiful.

I don't know why the guy was pulled over. Someone said he drove a ways to pull over, and the Lt. wasn't exactly cooperative, BUT, there was no reason to spray the guy.

WTH??

Pulled over for no license plate visible. He had a 30 day tag taped to the inside of the back window though. Fairly common occurrence with paper 30 day tags imo.

When the lights went on, Nazario was concerned about stopping on a dark road. He slowed down, put his flashers on, and went about a mile, to a gas station. He was not fleeing. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/10/us/caron-nazario-windsor-police-virginia.html

Only other thing he could've done was call 911 and tell them he had a cop behind him, lights on, and he would pull over at the first well lit area. (I've even told my daughter to do this very thing.)


Here's the video, but first, remember, he was pulled over for no visible tag. Seems to me the cops went a 'little' over board for a 'no visible tag' violation, especially when, sitting at the gas station, you can see the temp. tag in the window.



As for the rest of the story, he didn't (edited to add - I lost my train of thought I guess), he didn't do anything to deserve getting sprayed.

Why is a missing tag a felony? By the way, it was not missing, it was in the back window under tinted glass.

That is what the officer stated.

In addition there were conflicting instructions and statements that officers made that only made things worse.

You better be... ride the lightning, which is a reference to the electric chair.

So black people are now obligated to call 911 and tell them they’re being pulled over?

What? Why is it that people are somehow expected to act more calm and rational, yet those actually paid and trained to do so are given a pass for trash behavior?

Did I say that? No. And perhaps in your rush to make me look bad, you ignored what I've told my daughter. She's white, by the way, since color matters to you.

What I SAID was, the only OTHER thing he could've done.....let's face it, the police don't KNOW your intention if you don't pull over.

But, since you are trying to play the color thing, it was night. The cops had no idea the color of the driver.



I give up, swish. I truly, truly give up.

So you telling me that when you taught your daughter to drive, one of the lessons you gave her was to call 911 if she ever got pulled over by the cops.

And let’s be clear here: you’d never tell your daughter that because it’s something she will NEVER have to worry about.

And the best you got is more or less “it was dark outside”. Somehow it being dark didn’t stop them from acting like they was getting ready to arrest somebody on the FBI most wanted list.

That was completely irrational behavior by the cops with zero justifications whatsoever.

I can not be the only person on this board who thinks anybody having to call 911 when they’re about to be pulled over by the cops is absolutely insane. If that ain’t a clear cut sign of a broken system, I dunno what is.

No, that's NOT what I'm saying. AT ALL. Damn.

What I HAVE told her, and my wife is, if it's dark, no other traffic, etc around - just you and a car with flashing lights, call 911 and tell them you will stop at the closest well lit, public place. Period.

And, why would she never have to worry about something like that? Very curious as to your thinking there.

Pretty sure I know though.

It’s obvious why.

My daughters won’t have to go through any nonsense like this either. And we all know why, cause they pass as white girls. I know exactly how the game operates. My wife or daughters would never have to worry about randomly being pulled over and treated as a criminal like I had to. Not will yours.

And hey, that’s a great thing. But it doesn’t change the fact that your kid isn’t gonna be treated like this black/Latino LT was.

"What's going on? You're fixin' to ride the lighting, son,"

You know damn well no cop would ever say some nonsense like that to your kid. Just stop it already. And you know damn well you wouldn’t immediately call 911 if they started pulling you over.

It says something about the system that others are expected to behave and operate just simply based on how they look. And the cops absolutely treated him like like they were looking for any reason to act like some action flick.

Arch, they don’t even pepper spray little white girls who fight the cops in the middle of the night cause of a DUI. Stop acting as if this is somehow normal.

Unless of course you do think this is normal cop behavior.

Im a white girl. I got pulled over and searched and had a gun on me, on base. I didnt do anything wrong.

Did you get pepper sprayed and threatened to be sent to the electric chair?

Did you also call 911 when the lights came on?

No, but your assertion that white females dont have to deal with police being aggressive has no merit. They had no probable cause to search my car. I was cooperating, there was no reason to put a gun on me.

So wait....you didn’t get pepper sprayed, assaulted, or threatened with death, despite having a gun on you?

God I wish I had that level of privilege. That level of freedom must be easy to take for granted.

Do tell us when was the last time you got pepper sprayed, assaulted, or threatened with death by the police.

I would like to have an intelligent conversation about this case - but I can see you don't want to. That is fine.

I shall try 1 last time: Not pulling over for a police officer that has his/her lights on is a crime. THAT is why, regardless of one's color, you call 911 and say "a cop is behind me, but we're in the middle of no where and I'm not comfortable pulling over here. Please let the officer know. I've slowed down, my flashers are on."

And, at night, a cop doesn't know the color of the person he's pulling over.

Sorry I even tried to defend the guy. I had no idea the conversation would go this way.

Lol you know how many times they threatened to shoot me while they were pulling me over constantly back when I was stationed in Oklahoma? It was so bad my commander went to have a conversation with Lawton PD. They had me in cuffs sitting on the side of the street while in uniform searching my car for drugs.

Again, you had a gun on you. And nothing bad happened.

Do you have any idea what would’ve happened to me if they found a gun in my car?

Those cops in this video would’ve shot that military officer if they found a gun on him. Stop acting like you gotta deal with that level of police brutality and harassment. You don’t.

The fact that you and Arch on here trying to rationalize that horrible interaction is straight up sad.

I didnt have a gun in my car. I meant they were aiming their gun at me. A machine gun. From a tree stand.

It was ridiculous. I literally did nothing wrong.

So stop saying white people dont have to deal with it, because we do.

Youre going to have a melt down when your white-looking daughters get pulled over.

Nah cause I know they’ll be fine.

They won’t have to worry about... what was it, "What's going on? You're fixin' to ride the lighting, son,"

^^^^ who talks like that, Eve?

[quote=Swish

The fact that you and Arch on here trying to rationalize that horrible interaction is straight up sad. [/quote]

This is the problem with you, and a few others on here. You make stuff up to fit YOUR belief.

No where did I try to rationalize that interaction. No where. RIF.

To be honest, nobody talks like that.

Sorry Swish, but I went back and read arch's response and I have to say that it was neutral.

I think you were looking for something that did not exist.

I don't think that anyone would have the composure to call 911 while traveling to a lighted place. I think that it is prudent safety.

The cops got all hopped up and pulled the guns and escalated the situation. They also had a couple of miles to identify the temporary plate.

Infuriating!

Seems like the cops don't know how to have a civil conversation. That older one with glasses needs to be brought up on charges. I almost lost it when he started with his little knee jibs.

once he got to the lit area how did the cops miss the temporary tags?

They should have noticed them and then once he pulled over the cops should have said, hey we pulled you over because we couldn't see your plates at night with the tent... please move them to the back and have a nice night... no way it should have escalated like it did....

Give it up, Swish.

There isn't a single one of them who has ever experienced:

1. Hands on hood/pat down... for a basic traffic stop.
2. "Pop the trunk. You fit the description..."
3. "Any 'colored' (read: "n-word") with a car this nice musta got it by selling drugs. Am I gonna find drugs in your car, boy?"
4. "Grab some curb"... as my Triumph 1500's trunk was tossed yet another time.

....so they can't possibly understand what Life In America has been like for Browns Fans like You and I.
We try to tell them in forums like this, but they simply cannot/will not hear us.

I no longer waste my time.

Thank you both for finding the muster to share harrowing experiences; they find ears told beyond this very web address and they have changed minds.

Grateful to both of you that people in my own life can hear your stories, and then they sit and reflect on them. You both change hearts and minds beyond this digital space.

Don't lump us all in that mess.

Getting the electric chair may have been used in the past, but today, my thinking is that riding the lightening, in the context of this is more about getting tazed.

Not good by any means, but that is how I interpret that comment.

You aren't wasting your time. It makes a difference. You can't change or open up everyone's minds and the most closed minds here on dawgtalkewrs are often the one's here that try to explain away, enable, rationalize and normalize behavior that should simply be rejected by everyone.

Hey - maybe we are making progress? We didn't hear someone pull out the worn out troupe about how many crimes minorities are responsible for and how hard being a police officer is.

Oh yea, and some kid got shot and killed by a cop who “accidentally” pulled out her gun instead of the taser.

Can’t wait to see the excuses for that one.

Well, you know, it's easily confusible with one being bright yellow and the other being black...

They have no idea bro. They are the reason racism exists. They were taught it by a system that embraces it. By their parents. By our teachers. By our police and by military leaders. It’s systemic and will not go away until we stop teaching it, period. We were not born this way.

It’s a reference to killing. In other words “You’re going to die” for driving a mile to a lit gas station for safety purposes.

I don't know.

Untrue, in my case.

Your #1 has happened to me
Your #2 happened, same time.
Your #4 happened - but it wasn't the curb - it was the back seat of the Tenn. Highway Patrol.

Your #3 - while not due to the color of my skin - also happened at the same stop.

The reason the trooper gave? "You were going 74 in a 60." (blatant lie - I was following a friend who had been in Arkansas with me at the same time - for job training. We were going 63 in a 60).

As I sat in the back seat I saw another trooper pull up at a high rate of speed and slam his brakes on.

The trooper in the front seat THEN asked for my license. Questioned me as to where I'd been, and where I was going, and asked if I had anything of value in the car and "care if I check?" I gave him permission, then watched him search the car, and the trunk. Whole time I'm in the backseat crapping myself because he could've pulled anything out of his pocket and framed me.

He found nothing, because there was nothing - came back, opened the door, and let me go. No ticket for the false 74 in a 60, no written warning - no nothing.

So, while it's only happened to me once, it HAS happened to me.

Now, I'm sure others will poo poo this and say I'm lying, or making a big deal out of nothing, or whatever. I don't care.

It's a shame that you are targeted by profiling.

The fact is that profiling is done in all walks of life. I wish we could change that, but I doubt we can.

And that's sort of the problem here. The entire, "It happened to me once" isn't the same thing as a lifetime of such treatment. It's not the same thing as it happening to you often. It's not the same thing as expecting it as what's normal rather than the exception. I understand that some people just don't get it.

I think most reasonable people get it.

On would certainly hope so but I think the word "reasonable" means different things to different people.

I understand all of that. I was responding to this statement:

And, I find these statements I made pertinent to this post:

The excuse is there. Her chief got on TV and said it was an accidental discharge. I'll argue that there is no such thing.
There are only 2 types of firearm discharge:

1) Intentional

2) Negligent

At the very least, this was negligent homicide.

I really didn't intend to dismiss or minimize your experience. I was simply pointing out that we have people in our society that experience this more often and expect it to be the rule instead of the exception to the rule.

Just a comment on your last sentence. There was a period of time, about 4 months here, where some creep had a Crown Vic and put lights on it, and would pull over women after dark. They finally caught him, but even the police were telling them to call 911 to see if the car/officer behind them is legit, and to go to a public well lit location.

So it's not always that the system is broken, but sometimes it just because society is broken.

You do realize the system is setup and run by our society. Just saying.

You do realize I replied with more than one sentence, which would give reference to the comment about society?

pfft...

ok

right on.

I get that FF but those tend to be so rare compared to the frequent police brutality incidents with minorities. That’s why I don’t understand trying to correlate something that’s rare and creepy with something that’s unfortunately fairly common as a reason to downplay what happened.

We got cops “accidentally” pulling a firearm instead of a taser, despite being on the force for how many years?

We got cops talking like tough guy extras on some watered down cop show. And it’s so much more likely to have these sort of cops in these cases in interactions with minorities that somebody going “well this one time back in the day” just seem like a deflection of sorts.

I’m not trying to be rude about it here FF but the idea of having to call 911 in the cops pull you over is just insanity. The idea that you gotta be worried about a tough guy in law enforcement threatening your life over a tag he couldn’t see is insanity.

I’m done with the justifications and excuses and understanding honestly. We either need to admit as a society that law enforcement isn’t there to protect and serve, but enforce and punish, or we need to admit that the current system is broken and needs restructuring.

America is clearly back to normal now, overall. Police brutality, mass shootings, conservatives calling everything that moves commie or socialist, and record gains on the stock market.

Yay.

I wasn't downplaying it. I was merely pointing out that calling 911, or directly to the police if possible is becoming more increasingly necessary, if not only to let them know you are getting to a public area. If it's 1 block away, it's probably not a big deal, but if you have to drive another mile or 2, it would be helpful to the officer to know as well.

It sucks that it has come to that, but it's the world we live in.

He did turn his hazard lights on to try and show them he was aware they were there. I think that was a reasonable way to indicate to them he was planning to pull over. I do not think it's in any way reasonable to have expected him to take further measures.

Post of the day.
Time to close this thread.

Live Updates: Former Brooklyn Center officer who killed Daunte Wright facing manslaughter charge

A White former police officer is facing a criminal charge for fatally shooting a Black man during a traffic stop, prosecutors said Wednesday. Former Brooklyn Center police officer Kim Potter will be charged with second-degree manslaughter for the death of Daunte Wright, Washington County Attorney Pete Orput announced, according to CBS Minnesota.

Potter, a 26-year veteran who killed Wright, 20, resigned on Tuesday, along with the city's police chief, officials said.

Wright's killing has sparked nights of protests and more than 60 arrests were made overnight following clashes with law enforcement, CBS Minnesota reported.

On Monday, Police Chief Tim Gannon said Potter meant to use her Taser but instead grabbed her gun. The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is investigating the fatal shooting.

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/dau...ion-2021-04-14/

First of all: Good.

Secondly: Who didn't see this coming? The chief even said she mistakenly grabbed her gun instead of taser, and I believe she said, and was recorded at the scene as saying "Oh my God, I shot him."

What amazes me is that a 26 year police veteran can't tell the difference between holding a gun and holding a tazor. The weight and feel of the two are totally different.

So now you are an expert on tazers?


I suppose I agree, but in the heat of the moment you don't know how you would react or possibly they do feel similar.

You know me....what sparked her being in such a hurry to grab for her tazor, be it a gun?

She obviously didn't have time to look, at least in her mind.

I don't know. Seems like poor planning IMO. Why in the world would you holster the two so close together to even have this possibly happen?

To me, a tazer is something you pull when you have some time..like trying to talk down a non-compliant individual. She obviously didn't have a weapon drawn before she pulled and killed the guy.

Just seems to me it would be wise to holster your gun where you want, and keep the taser on the other hip or on the vest, not in the same basic hand position as your service weapon.

If I was a cop, this would be a good case for not even carrying a taser. I know we want non-lethal methods used when possible, but we sure don't want mistakes like this. When in a crisis situation, you don't have time to fumble around feeling for which is which or time to look. You are very likely dead if you do that. In this case, she pulled the wrong dang weapon.

I was following along until this part....

I'm pretty sure the chief of the Brooklyn Center PD said in a press thing that "We have the gun on the officers strong hand side, and the taser on the opposite side."

Meaning, for a right handed cop, gun holstered on right hip, taser on left hip.

Extreme I know, and I know it wouldn't happen. That was more a thinking out loud moment...and arch just posted the items are in different locations, so who knows what she was thinking?

I don't think she shot the guy for the sporting fun of it, but it makes you wonder how that could happen.

Note to the mob....don't get bunched up about the term sporting fun. It's an expression. I don't think it is sporting or fun to shoot someone. Just wanted to clear that up before 4-5 of you jumped on that.

I'd like to see the first few rounds in the clip being rubber bullets or going to bean bag guns for these minor offenses. Then a mistaken grab wouldn't have to be deadly. Even better would be to stop losing your crap over every little thing and feeling like YOU NEED to draw your gun all the damn time. And tell them to keep their knees off of people's necks and backs for crying out loud... How stupid is it that we keep killing people doing the same stupid ass things over and over. No choke holds, no knees on backs or throats, non lethal ammo... Simple fixes to complex yet simple problems... Just stop killing people for no good reason, period.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

I don't know why the cop went for her gun or tazer. Neither do you. We hear about these situations but never hear about the thousands of stops per day by police where force isn't used or threatened. You shouldn't make it sound like it does.

Chambering a few dummy rounds is a bad idea IMO. You are smart enough to know that when you need to use your weapon, you don't want to be shooting a few dummy rounds. That is a good way to get killed.

Look at the situation with the Army Lt. I don't think the cops should have gotten out with guns drawn. If they felt it was a threatening situation, have gun in hand and stand behind the door so the guns aren't seen. While I am dismayed at how all of this happened, the Lt. wasn't exactly cooperative.

It's just a bad situation for a lot of reasons.

Note to the mob...I am not saying the Lt. got what he deserved by not being fully cooperative. The cop did plenty wrong. Just wanted to make that clear.

I'm not a gun guy at all.. So take what I'm saying with a grain of salt! But I gotta think there is a substantial difference between a taser and a glock (or whatever she was carrying). I'm just not convinced that a mistake like that can even happen... Also, if it happened like they say, why did the chief resign? Almost feels as if he was trying to make up an excuse that just didn't fly.

arch got it 100% right. The pistol is on the right side and the tazor is on the left side. Opposite sides. "Different location" makes it sound a little different than "totally opposite sides".

And you don't have to be "an expert" to have handled both a tazor and a similar weapon as the pistol a cop carries to understand the difference of how differently they feel in your hand.

A trained, twenty six year police veteran got her right side and left side mixed up. That's if you believe the "it was a mistake" line being given.

I have seen nothing in her record that would indicate that it wasn't a mistake. But I can also see why people might strongly feel it wasn't.