Statue of Confederate Robert E. Lee taken down in Virginia
By SARAH RANKIN and DENISE LAVOIE
2 minutes ago


By SARAH RANKIN and DENISE LAVOIE
2 minutes ago
link

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — A crowd erupted in cheers and song Wednesday as work crews hoisted an enormous statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee off the giant pedestal where it has towered over Virginia’s capital city for more than a century.

The piece, one of America’s largest monuments to the Confederacy, was lifted away just before 9 a.m. as one of the construction workers who helped strap harnesses to Lee and his horse lifted his arms in the air and counted down, “Three, two, one!” to jubilant shouts from a crowd of hundreds.

“This was a long time coming, part of the healing process so Virginia can move forward and be a welcoming state with inclusiveness and diversity,” Gov. Ralph Northam said once the statue was lowered to the ground. The Democrat said it represents “more than 400 years of history that we should not be proud of,” and he congratulated Virginians for supporting its removal.

Black Lives Matter signs were seen in the crowd. Some chanted “Whose streets? Our streets!” and sang, “Hey hey hey, goodbye.”


The statue was lowered to the ground where it was expected to be cut into pieces so that it can be brought to a secure location, where it will be stored until its final disposition is determined.

One of America’s largest monuments to the Confederacy, was taken down from its prominent perch after years of resistance and a long court battle. Among the crowd watching the removal, there did not appear to be any visible counterprotesters.

Northam ordered the statue taken down last summer, citing the pain felt across the country over the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis after a white police officer pressed a knee into his neck. But until a recent court ruling cleared the way, Northam’s plans had been tied up in litigation.

The statue, a 21-foot (6-meter) bronze equestrian sculpture that sits atop a pedestal nearly twice that tall, has towered above a prominent residential boulevard named Monument Avenue since 1890 in this former capital of the Confederacy.

Crews began work before 8 a.m. Wednesday. Two public viewing areas were set up, with only limited visibility. A crowd of about 200 people chanted “What do we want? Justice. When do we want it? Now!” as a work crew dwarfed by the size of the statue strapped red and blue harnesses to the Lee figure and his horse. The workers were lifted up to the statue on platforms.

The state brought in a deconstruction crew surrounded by a heavy police presence to strap the statue to a crane. State, capitol and city police officers closed streets for blocks around the state-owned traffic circle in Richmond, using heavy equipment and crowd-control barriers to keep crowds away. The Federal Aviation Administration granted the state’s request to ban drone flights during the event, which will be livestreamed through the governor’s Facebook and Twitter accounts.

“This is a historic moment for the city of Richmond. The city, the community at large is saying that we’re not going to stand for these symbols of hate in our city anymore. And it was important for me to be here to see this historic moment,” said Rachel Smucker, 28, a Richmond resident who was at the viewing site early Wednesday with her sister.

Smucker, who is white, said she moved to Richmond around three years ago. It was her first time living in the South, and she found Monument Avenue “jarring.”

“I’ve always found it to be offensive, as a symbol of protecting slavery and the racism that people of color still face today,” Smucker said.

The one-of-a-kind piece, valued for its artistic quality, stood among four other massive Confederate statues on the avenue, but the city removed the others last summer.

“We put things on pedestals when we want people to look up,” Northam said in June 2020 when he announced the removal plan. “Think about the message that this sends to people coming from around the world to visit the capital city of one of the largest states in our country. Or to young children.”

The statue’s removal was expected to be completed Wednesday. Plans called for it to be cut into at least two pieces and hauled to an undisclosed state-owned facility until a decision is made about its final disposition. The pedestal is to remain for the time being, although workers are expected to remove decorative plaques and extricate a time capsule on Thursday.

After Floyd’s death, the area around the statute became a hub for protests and occasional clashes between police and demonstrators. The pedestal has been covered by constantly evolving, colorful graffiti, with many of the hand-painted messages denouncing police and demanding an end to systemic racism and inequality.

The decisions by the governor and Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney to remove the Confederate tributes marked a major victory for civil rights activists, whose previous calls over the decades to remove the statues had been steadfastly rebuked by city and state officials alike.

A previous wave of resistance to the statues came in 2017 when a rally of white supremacists in the city of Charlottesville erupted into violence. Other Confederate monuments started falling around the country.

But in Virginia, local governments were hamstrung by a state law that protected memorials to war veterans. That law was amended in 2020 by the new Democratic majority at the statehouse and signed by Northam. With the changes that took effect on July 1, 2020, localities could decide the monuments’ fate.

Stoney then moved swiftly, citing the continuing demonstrations and concerns that protesters could get hurt if they tried to bring down the enormous statues themselves.

Work crews removed statues of Gen. Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson, Confederate naval officer Matthew Maury and Gen. J.E.B. Stuart from the thoroughfare. Before Stoney’s decree, protesters toppled a statue of Confederate President Jefferson Davis. Although the figures themselves are gone, their pedestals remain.

Northam’s plans to remove the Lee statue stalled until the Supreme Court of Virginia cleared the way last week in unanimous rulings against two lawsuits, saying that in a democracy, “values change and public policy changes too.”

The changes have remade the prestigious avenue, which is lined with mansions and tony apartments and is partly preserved as a National Historic Landmark district. Richmond officials are advancing plans to remove the pedestals and other remnants of the statuary and at least temporarily pave over or re-landscape the sites. Northam has tapped the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts to lead a community-driven redesign for the whole avenue, a process that is expected to be drawn-out and has yet to make substantial progress.

A statue of Black tennis hero and Richmond native Arthur Ashe that was erected on the avenue in 1996 is expected to remain.

As for the Lee statue, Northam has said his administration will seek public input on what should happen to it next.

___

Associated Press writer Alan Suderman contributed to this report.

Should be moved to political forum before the comments start.

Good

Losers shouldn’t get statues.

Participation statues?

Poor Joe Thomas getting sniped in a Robert E. Lee thread.

Especially treasonous, traitor losers.

Hey now! He won almost every battle he fought for 11 years.
Lee and the confederacy crumbled before their rookie contract was up.

Cancel Culture continues..................

Like, like when Trump told you to boycott all of those corporations that did things he didn't like or said things he didn't like? That kind of cancel culture? Or like, like country music boycotting The Dixie Chicks because they said something Republicans didn't like about W? That kind of cancel culture?

Careful or you’ll get some on your shoe…

I don't actually reply to him, for him. More so for others and my own amusement.

Monument Ave.in Richmond was a very beautiful boulevard.There were many statues dedicated to confederate generals placed in traffic circles.The homes were mainly brick and stately.Spent many spectacular evenings cruising the Mon.with my arm around my baby.
Life goes on.Things I enjoy aren't for everyone.

So you can't enjoy the beautiful boulevard and scenic beauty of Richmond without statues of confederate war generals?

It's a shame.

Yes, without those participation trophies of traitors things will never be the same.

Not from my house.

ahh, how i miss looking at the statues of those who fought to keep slaves in chains. sad times.

[takes off hat, places it over his heart]


This is a major loss.
For pigeons.

Now, they'll have to go back to targeting freshly-washed cars.

The statue is on private property. Don't let the FB posts and memes dog walk you.

Since 1995, the statue has been held in trust waiting for a buyer, standing on temporary display for the last 26 years on a prominent street corner in Fremont. It has become a local landmark, frequently being either decorated or vandalized. The statue has sparked political controversy, including criticism for being communist chic and not taking the historic meaning of Lenin and communism seriously (or taking it too seriously), or by comparing the purported acceptance of such a charged political symbol to the removal of Confederate monuments and memorials. Much of the debate ignores the statue's private ownership and installation on private property, with the public and government having virtually no say in the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin_(Seattle)

I think about Robert E. Lee with mixed emotions. At the end of the day he is an American that was forced to make a choice that he probably did not want to make.

He is not a demon, or a hero, to fight over this has no merit. I think it is sad that his image has been used to reenforce a narrative that has been settled.

I will say that he should be remembered as he is a historical figure. I would have personally advocated another statue, as a replacement, perhaps Lee with northern figure to provide balance, or one without him in the general’s uniform contemplating the consequences of his actions.

Since I can’t edit and though about this a bit more….

The statute should be melted down and reformed to illustrate America as a melting pot of diversity.

I can’t help but think that Loving vs the State of Virginia (black and white can marry) would be an appropriate resurrection. But that is a bit too far left for even me.

There you go GOPers who don't want them taken down, just go buy them from the cities and stick them in your yard.

So fish was fooled by an internet meme that sent the message he wanted to believe without doing his homework. Imagine that.

You know what? Screw it. Imma show the same energy guy toward southern conservatives that they show every time a natural disaster hits.

People in the south are dying from Covid because god is punishing y’all. Every last conservative who gets Covid is because of Gods will.

The confederate statues being taken down? Gods will.

Trump losing the election? Gods will.

I didn't attach the multitude of mocking tweets associated with this article but feel free to click the link and read them. Link also contains trumps full statement which doesn't copy and paste

Trump’s Weird New Rant About Robert E. Lee Contains A Baffling 3-Word Claim
Ed Mazza
Thu, September 9, 2021, 4:13 AM EDT·3 min read

Former President Donald Trump released a new statement on Wednesday praising Robert E. Lee, even as a statue of the Confederate general was taken down in Richmond, Virginia.

Trump said Lee is considered “the greatest strategist of them all,” a notion that is very much in dispute.

Trump, who has often come down on the side of the Confederacy, also declared that Lee would have singlehandedly won the Civil War, “except for Gettysburg.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-weird-rant-robert-e-081318204.html

Take the statue down, it's the right thing to do.

Some folks argue, how will we know the history if we remove the statues, but seriously, what is the history lesson being learned from the statue?

Is it that if you attempt to overthrow the US government and fail, that you are allowed to walk away, become the President of a college, live out the rest of your days peacefully, and have a statue erected in a prominent place in your honor?

Is that really the lesson we should be teaching?

One part of one of these articles that brought up does hit me. These statues displayed up on pedestals within these really nice areas with the landscaping and other architecture all around it.... it suggests deference/reverence towards the people being displayed.

I don't think the statues should be destroyed because it's part of our history. But I also don't think the people that fought to continue slavery should be held in places of honor.

All history should be preserved, but not all history should be put on a pedestal.

More that the communist one party media in this country thinks its such a big deal to advertise all over the country some statue coming down,
than the actual thing coming down.

If these statues represent history, it should be ALL of history.
Namely, we should also be discussing when and why these abominations were erected.

learn

something

new

I agree with you, all history should be preserved but it should be displayed in context.

At least Lee led the troops that captured that horrible abolitionist John Brown which led to his hanging for freeing slaves. Thank goodness!

Been following Facebook I see...

He wasn't hanged for freeing slaves, he was hanged for an insurrection against a government arsenal in which a number of people died... He was hanged for attempting to steal guns to start a civil war at the exact time that Abraham Lincoln was doing everything in his power to PREVENT a civil war...

Or do you believe that invading and taking a government facility hostage is noble as long as one believes their cause is just?

No, I m quite aware of all those things. It was more of something I planted expecting such a response. Because you see, Lee was responsible for leading troops against the The United states of America. You mention "taking over a public facility". I'll see your public facility and raise you invading, attacking and occupying our states. He was responsible for trying to keep slavery. And we have people thinking Lee still deserves a statue.

So let's see, one gets hung and one gets a statue. Hmmmm....

And I mean if you want to talk about insurrectionists, there's Jan 6th. Yes, less deaths, but still. The right wing nuts are holding a rally for them because they call them political prisoners and they've been wronged.

No wonder they think Lee should be praised in the public square.



Thanks for playing!

So Pitt was fooled by a Facebook article (probably Occupy Democrats)that sent the message he wanted to believe without doing his homework. Imagine that.

No, I wasn't fooled at all. Try reading the response. You see, Lee was no less guilty of those same things but the south and some far right wingers thought he deserved a statue while they thought Brown deserved to be hanged.

Try to keep up.

Two historical but separate events. If you think that Lee should have been put on trial and hung, that's a fair point. You should write a letter of complaint to Abraham Lincoln.


Your analogy is flawed.. in this analogy, the Jan 6th protestors who stormed and occupied the Capitol are analogous to John Brown, who stormed and occupied the arsenal, not to Robert E. Lee, who captured him.

I was talking about the acts of two separate men and the double standard people hold for similar acts/crimes they committed. Abraham Lincoln has nothing to do with that.

Once again, depending on who committed insurrection dictates the standards and responsibility each one deserves for the same infraction.

These are both examples of how it's not what an individual actually does that determines people's perception, it's who they are and which side they are on.

If we’re so concerned about honoring war heroes, why can’t we just put up statues of guys who received medal of honors from WW2- recent war campaigns?

I just can’t understand how people get so upset about taking down statues of clowns who fought to NOT be American. Who fought to keep their fellow Americans in chains.

People show that much passion over these clowns, yet got the nerve to whine about being called racist.

That would be like me whining over a statue of Louis Farrakhan being taken down and then act confused as to why people call me anti white.

I can stop reading this thread right now.

4 paragraphs that render every counter-argument null.

Excellent post.
Thank you.

Funny thing about those people who whine about being called racist, when you get them talking, they often prove themselves exactly that.

I think many complain because being racist is a fairly normal human condition. I think that everybody is racist. I think that is how the world became segregated in the first place.

If you notice that a person is black, white, or anything else, you are identifying that person by race, and we all do that.

The problem is bigotry. I have to admit I am a bigot. I don't like ass orifices.

Just curious.

How did the world become segregated in the first place?

There is only 1 place that racism does not exist and that is at the foot of a Cross. All people of all colors are made in God's image. If we seen each other as an image of God there would be no hate and division.

The world has been segregated by race, religion, nationality, social status, wealth status, gender, physical appearance, etc since the beginning of man.

Really?

Since the beginning of man?

How so?

Everything is true except race.

Modern man homo sapien spread across contininents.

"Since the beginning of man?"

Not trying to be difficult. My major in college was Evolutionary Anthropology.

There is more to this tale. Blanket statements do not cover the history of man.

Bigotry is hating those that do just because you don't. Just like everything else, if you don't like it, don't participate. That isn't bigotry.

please be difficult. and i mean that in the most respectful way possible because this is a great topic to discuss. so i hope you and i can go back and forth on this.

human beings have built-in tribalism in our genetics. now, that tribalism doesn't mean racism, seeing as we're are the same race/species.

but we are very much social creatures. just because lions are the same doesn't mean a pride will get along with another pride. a pack of wolves isn't gonna get along with another pack of wolves. territory, hunting areas, and things like that come into play.

for human beings, there's added dynamics due to "consciousness" or intelligence, however we choose to label that. that's where things like language, religion, cultural norms come into play.

if we look at how societies are structured around the world, you see very little difference in behaviors between a tribe in the amazon and america with social media.

the moment we became "Aware" or conscious of our environment is the what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. basically, things changed when we became aware of our inherit expiration date. thats a big reason as to why religion became prominent in human society.

the power structure and dynamics that we have in human society is no different than any pack/herd animals. alpha/beta, roles within the tribe, etc.

but the more complex our societies became, the more things like status and wealth came into play.

as far as physical appearance and such, that has absolutely
been a thing. women always choose the strongest man in the group, or the leader of the tribe based on reproduction and such. we see that even today. an nfl athlete is gonna have far more choices of desirable women over than average man.

a tribal leader is gonna have more choices with regards to women than a normal worker.

hierarchies are literally embedded into practically every mammal.

race, on the other hand, is something relatively new when we're talking human history.

You don't think so? Race can be the most obvious (visual) difference between people. Plus differences in physical appearance often go hand-in-hand with cultural/behavioral differences definitely can contribute to racism.

i dont agree with that. trying to contribute someones skin tone with personality or characteristic traits isn't a real thing.

if that was the case, than a white guy from portland would act exactly the same as a white guy from rural alabama. a black guy from NYC would act the same way as a rural black guy from mississippi.

just because its the most obvious(read: easiest) way for somebody to try to separate themselves from one another doesn't mean racism is genetic.

just look at european history. they were at war with each other so much, you could consider war their favorite past time. that was nothing but white people killing other white people. go tell a white guy from France that he's the same as a white guy from Germany, and be happy you don't speak french while he's cussing you out.

I will have to get back to you on this.

I am busy. It is very complex.

Pre-history and the time that most think of as history.

Are way different.

You're arguing the inverse of what I'm saying, though. Just because people of the same race and different surrounding are different doesn't disprove the opposite.

I guess people of one sub species were born in various parts of the world.

sure it does. what you're talking about is called implicit bias.

im arguing that its learnt behavior. tribalism and racism aren't the same thing.

but if you're implying that somehow your race determines how you behave, i dont agree whatsoever.

true....my wording wasn't very good. Bigotry is holding something against a group simply because they are a member of that group.

There are several ass orifices I like, so I guess I am not a bigot.

When there was a single man all by himself no, but pretty much from the beginning, mankind would separate themselves into tribes as Swish said.

Is that not the definition of segregation?
noun
the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart.

please do bro. you have studied this so id like to know the evolution of our society and structures. convos like this is what i enjoy the most.

Oob i hope i didnt scare you off because i was liking how the convo was developing.

Oh yeah? Tower of Babel. It's GOD'S WILL! Racism is instinctual. We all come from tribes!

I don't know how you, pit, and several others on the left come in here and argue this crap day after day with the usual suspects.

This forum is for entertainment purposes only.

Thus far no human has actually been physically harmed by participating in this forum.

Everything needs a disclaimer these days.

wait til i start arguing with the dudes on twitch and discord. dudes be talking about ethno states

smdh

Not at all! I am actually really busy with work this month and last. I've been up until midnight or later most of this week and last and I've had the little guy at home, so I come here in bursts to take quick breaks in between tasks. Otherwise I'd go nuts.

Plus I need to up my game for my next response.

It would be interesting to have a vocal discussion.

We are talking textbooks.

Approximately 500,000 years ago modern man homo sapien appeared out of Africa.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n...iens-180976807/


Speculation about prehistory is small bands of people were hunting and gathering nomads. Very dependent upon each other to survive. Race as we think of it today did not exist. There were also other hominids in existence. Neanderthal, Denisovans and there have been new discoveries of others.

Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Germany has the most current data.

It is a fascinating topic. And there is still much learn.
New discoveries this year.

Cultures around the world differ in many ways. There really are no generalizations that apply to all.

This is a very broad canvas of physical and social science.

Way more than we can open in this format.

I agree with you that tribalism and racism are not the same thing. I would agree that tribalism is about as old as man. It evolved for safety and self-preservation. Racism is a subset or just one possible cause of tribalism. The challenge in defining it is that we don't belong to just one tribe any more, we aren't geographically isolated like that... we have this Venn diagram of tribes that overlap and intersect and the more commonality we share with somebody, the more we view them as part of our tribe.

That's why most white people don't view themselves as racist at all. They get along fine with the black people at work, with the black people that live in their neighborhood, with the black people that root for the same teams as them, that go to their church, or went to the same college as them (or went to college at all).... they have some kind of tribal commonality with those people... they are easier to relate to.... and not be afraid of.

I have come to be very confused by people who won't watch the NFL or the NBA or the Olympics because the athletes "disrespect the flag"... yet many of these same people will fight to defend the displaying of the confederate flag.

There is not a single thing I can think of that is more disrespectful to the American flag, than honoring or displaying the confederate flag.

Racism is quite simply ignorance.

Lack of knowledge of the human race.

Circling back to where this started, I think you need to explain that one to me.

And for that, I'll explain part of my thinking. Racism (IMO) isn't just about skin-tone and your lineage. We're all homo-sapiens so technically racism doesn't exist (wrong). A big part of racism, as we know it, has to do with cultural norms (stereotypes might be a better word because while stereotypes aren't always completely accurate, they also don't just appear out of nowhere). It's about when you see someone with the physical identifiers of a specific race, your mind instinctually associates that with a stereotype "oh there's a black guy walking this way, cross the street so I don't get mugged" or "Middle East person = Muslim terrorist".

so i agree with this.

and sorry for the late responses. football is back and honestly i wish this is where our tribalism ended in this country:

American
State you rep
what team you rep

keep the tribalism in sports.