With the topic of vaccines being right around the corner, I'm curious to know how you Dawgs feel about whether or not it should be mandatory or optional. While there's a lot of hope, I think there's also been a lot of skepticism ranging from standard anti-vaxx folks to those for whom it matters under which political group is in power when it's released. If you choose Option 3 I'd be interested in what your line would be.

Mandatory.

For the same reasons that we have laws for other things such as seatbelts, speed limits, etc.

The safety data has panned out much like the other standard vaccines.

If it’s not mandatory, the virus will continue to mutate and it will be a constant problem.

Let’s base our laws and mandates around sound scientific and medical evidence.

Please don’t reply to this with slippery slope fallacies.

I'm sure the Communists will support 100% voluntary compliance.

It's none of your business whether it's voluntary or forced, they clearly don't have anything of free will being tolerated in the plans.

I actually agree with you on this

It's impossible to know the long term effects when trials only started relatively recently.

I'm not entirely anti-vax, but I'm extremely skeptical of anything
(modern/US) pharmaceutical related, especially anything rushed under special circumstances.

I don't plan on taking the vaccine any time soon. I'll just keep avoiding people.

Mandatory for some, optional for most. Healthcare workers, school teachers, sports leagues, some retailers, college students(?), etc. I'll let those industry owners decide.

I have a feeling ~35% of Americans would get it tomorrow if possible, ~35% would never get it and the other 30% is on the fence, but will eventually get it once it's confirmed to not make you blind. That's damn near the 70% herd immunity threshold. And I'd imagine it'll be inside every yearly flu shot going forward too.

When I read this, I take it like you think there's a 50/50 shot a negative side effect will hit you (or everyone). I'm speaking out my butt here, but I'd imagine the odds are more like 1-10% with everything we already know about side effects and vaccines. And that's not even talking about mild or medium side effects versus something major.

There will likely be someone that has a bad reaction to a covid vaccine, but one bad reaction out of millions of doses shouldn't make tons of Americans avoid the vaccine. If that were the case, nobody would ever be vaccinated at all. Nothing is 100% perfect. Heck, read the bottle of your basic Tylenol. Bad crap can happen, it's insanely rare, but it can. Doesn't mean Tylenol is dangerous or risky. And yes, I know Tylenol has been around for decades, so we know about it, but this vaccine wasn't cooked up by a guy in his garage. These same companies develop medicines and vaccines all the time. They're insanely smart and tons of other people will be peer reviewing their work. There's a chance something could go wrong, but LOTS of eyes are on this. I'm confident (for the most part).

And I don't mean any disrespect. I've heard others say the same thing on Facebook and I wonder the deeper meaning. Do they really distrust modern medicine that much?

Just like we don't allow your free will to murder anyone... critical thinking is a myth on the right.

When I say long term, I mean more delayed reactions. It may help with the virus now, but none of the COVID vaccines have been around long enough to know what effects might show up 1, 5, 10, etc years down the road.

I'm talking something along these lines:
link

If that happens, then in 5 years we'll be seeing commercials like "if you or a loved one took the covid 19 vaccine, you may be entitled to financial compensation."

I work in healthcare and will most likely get it as soon as it's available... but I think it should be voluntary... I don't like the idea of the government telling me I have to put something in my body... should be my choice...

Too Late, Nov 3, 2020 the bill of rights was confirmed to not be acknowledged, just turn a blind eye to it.

Wonder about the common sense of injecting into a body that hopes to hang around 98.6 degreees, a substance that can't be transported any warmer than negative 97 degrees
so roughly 100 degrees below zero, way beyond freezing.

Vaccines don’t work like that, Bull.

In my research on the Pfizer vaccine I found out that the vaccine must be kept at those extremely low temps during transport. The boxes of vials can then be handed off to nursing homes and such for use. At this point the vials can be stored for up to 5 days at normal freezer temperatures. So a nursing home would have five days to utilize the vaccine out of their freezer. Inoculating their residents and staff within that timeframe would be easy.
All current vaccines, such as the flu vaccine, are kept refrigerator or freezer stored. So there’s really no difference to the receiver of said inoculation.

You are aware that NOT all of the evidence is in yet, right? There is a reason why the companies are applying for emergency authorization to distribute the vaccine....

The one company (don't remember which one... I believe it's the one that's the easiest of the 3 to manufacture and distribute) has some serious issues with how they've conducted their latest trial and are assembling their data. I'm not saying there's any shadiness going on... I'm saying they're rushing/shortcutting the safety processes to get this new type of vaccine, developed using new development methods. I don't doubt their intentions... we all want this vaccine behind us. I think the maiden voyage of mRNA vaccines shouldn't be firedrilled through the process. Too much newness that needs to be verified as safe and effective.


As to the original question, I don't see why this vaccine (especially as relatively unproven as it is), should be any more mandatory as others. I think the effort should be put towards making it as accessible as possible while also ensuring it has been safely developed and safely manufactured and distributed.

Did you ever take the anthrax vaccine? I was ordered to, and the aftereffects from that are part of my hesitancy.

I'd like to at least wait to see which of the competing vaccines proves best. If COVID was more likely to kill me (and/or people in general), it might be a different story. I'll continue to avoid people.

I should've also added, as context, that I'll be getting the vaccine sooner rather than later. I won't be elbowing my way to the front of the line, but I'll be in those first lines.

As with most things, it's a risk-reward thing. With us finding out we'll be expecting another family member around the middle of the year, that shifts the risk-reward analysis a bit.

Faucci, spit. was on the news,

"americans need to realize that getting vaccinated is the key to getting back to norma... to somewhat close to normal."
It was accompanied by someone saying the phrase, that faucci added, (someone added) Americans should be "rolling up their sleeves" to get vaccinated, as it's a path back to normal.

So. I present my very relavant, very accurate imo, and poignant political newspaper add type political cartoon, comic, on the subject.
(Beause when in school around 11 years of age, the Nazi Holocaust survivors of the time, spoke to our schools,
and the Nazi Holocaust survivors warned us to not let this happen again,
and the Nazi Holocause survivors showed us movies which showed the death camps, the work camps, the still photos of the people, emaciated and dying that were met when the allies troops got control of the places these camps were.

And they told us of how the trains to the death camps were told to the folks getting on the trains, the lie that getting on the train would take them to a shower to clean up, or that they used ice cream truck music to lie to the people getting on that they,
well the general lies that they were going to a place where they would be helped, not killed.

And in those movies / still pictures were the words on the gates above the entrance to the courtyard in the camp, the same words. So.

ON one side of the political comic, the left side, is Faucci and this news update

Faucci "Vaccine is the key to getting back to norma.. somewhat normal"
other news man, "Americans must roll up their sleeves to get vaccinated"

and then on the other side of the political newspaper comic, the other half.

Show barely alive, dying, emaciated people from the Nazi death camps and the BIG SIGN over the top with the words from that sign.
"Work Makes Free"

And I don't know anybody, that can convince me, that this comic is not true, because the lies, the outright lies from the false results of Nov. 3. 2020, to start,

to all the other lies, there is absolutely noting that can be trusted coming from, ...them.

This is the near future, not some coo koo, Waco, fiction, crazy theory,
no.
it's clear, it's present, it's here,
near future,
just waiting, can't be stopped any longer.

You need help.

This.

You all need to listen.

Just because you think you are on their side, do you think they won't come also for you.

They can make those mandates because driving is a privilege.
Being alive is not a privilege and you cannot put mandates on someone's body simply for being alive in this country. The Constitution prevents this. The government is not omnipotent and does not have the authority to do this.

How do you feel about abortion? Are you in-favor of some mandates rather than others?

You could ask yourself the same thing.

As for me, the answer is no.

Everyone knows the story, of North Korea, they bring a couple of people who allegedly talked to someone from the west, or used a telephone.

and they bring them into a football stadium and make others sit in the stadium so it's full, and then they execute the people who used the telephone or talked to someone from the west; in front of the crowd. / . Everyone knows that story.

Today in the USA.
The story is that former presidents are going to, Biden, Bush, whomever, are going to get injected with the new covid vaccine, live on television, for all the millions of people across the country to view.

Boy it seems like living in the USA is more like living in North Korea with each passing day. Meaning, I see a lot of similarities between the two things I described.

So correct. Killing people in a public spectacle that are trying to live a ‘normal’ life under a totalitarian dictatorship run by a psychopath is JUST LIKE some former elected presidents taking a vaccine on television to try to ease the fears of a bunch of undereducated people in the US populace.

I mean, mirror image right?!


Again. You need help.

I guess both are political theatre, but, yeah, Throw's getting pretty far out there.

I have no opinion on it, and it's above my pay grade.
I am in favor of no mandates that attempt to infringe upon any constitutional right. There is no law higher than the constitution. Period. I give not one damn for anyone's morals, concerns, or wants if they do not jive with the Constitution.

Is spreading a virus that has killed over 280,000 Americana a persons "right"?

You have to catch it to spread it. Is it the government's right to impose its will on people's bodies for things that they might do?

Making it a requirement for people in certain positions or if you want to do certain things is different than making it blanket mandatory.

I'm not sure what part of asymptomatic people can't comprehend. That and the fact you can actually carry and spread the virus for a week to ten days with no symptoms. Lame excuses why we shouldn't do everything possible to stop the spread are just that. Lame excuses.

If you avoid other people, you can't catch it from or give it to anyone else.

"Everything possible" is a stupid phrase. We should use a reasoned response, not some knee jerk over reaction that has unintended consequences that people are too scared to stop and take the time to think about.

If you want to trust the Trump-neutered (leashed, brow-beaten; pick your adjective du jour) FDA and the Martin Shkreli's of the world that are responding to a panicking public, more power to you. I'd prefer to play it smart and get more outside information on the different competing vaccines before getting ahead of ourselves and talking about making it mandatory. Still take precautions-social distance, wear masks, etc. Roll the vaccine out to critical groups (once deemed safe and effective through the standard process) and re-evaluate how people respond outside of a limited trial environment.

Someone asked earlier if people trust modern medicine. Some people will trust anyone (i.e, people believe Trump.) Some people won't trust anyone (me, particularly when large sums of money are involved [Moderna getting 1.5 billion dollars to produce the vaccine for example Link .]) I worry about rushing and cutting corners in an attempt to capture that kind of influx of capital by pharmaceutical companies. There are good people in medicine, but I'm not sure Shkreli isn't more the rule than the exception at the financial top. Profit-motivated medicine is a recipe for bad things to happen.

It has been brought up the difference between a right and a privilege. Yet that doesn't apply when one thinks about it.

The second amendment states plainly the right to own and bear arms. Firing a weapon by all accounts is a right. Yet most cities and locations have restrictions on where you are permitted to fire your weapon. Not because you are going to shoot someone. But because someone is far more likely to get shot by a stray bullet in congested areas. This is simply one example of where a right you have is restricted for the common good of the overall population. So it's strictly based on what "might or could" happen.

I'm not a fan of for profit medicine either. Time and time again it's been proven to anyone willing to keep an open mind that countries in Europe have a much better medical system than we do by spending a fraction of the amount per patient. But even then they must negotiate with the for profit pharmaceutical industry. That can't be avoided anywhere.

That's why I would only listen to medical experts who have nothing financial to gain as to the safety and efficiency of a vaccine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single mention of this being mandatory from the federal government. Sure, private employers can mandate a vaccine, and they've been doing it for decades, but employees can petition to avoid it (medical conditions and religious reasons). I'm sure we'll hear about nurse A, teacher B and bus driver C refusing the vaccine, but again, this has been upheld in court tons of times. If your employer demands it, you get it or else.

Now, how many employers will demand it is another topic. I'm sure they'll offer incentives before making it mandatory, but that depends on the industry. I could see a wide mandate across the healthcare industry (I know we have some members in that line of work, so I'll let them comment/confirm).

Me, I'm getting it the first day I can. I'm already pumping my body with something way more toxic than this vaccine. This would be the least of my concern.

What are you pumping your body with?

Just responding in general...

If you eat ocean going Salmon a couple times a year you’re ingesting more mercury than will be in any vaccine.
If you smoke cigarettes but refuse the vaccine for chemical reasons you’re logically flawed.
I rinsed/cleaned car parts for my old man in acetone and other solvents as a kid. I’ll get cancer from that before a typical vaccine will kill me.
If you eat smoked meats more than once or twice a year you’re taking in more known carcinogens than any vaccine.
If you live under or around high power tension lines you’re more at risk from that than any vaccine.

STOP YELLING AT ME!




:-p

Oh. Believe me. I’m a dead man early because of my love of smoked meats. I’ve accepted it. Much like I’ll accept a vaccine.

I have ulcerative colitis. I'm taking remicade to suppress my immune system to save my colon. Anyone watching those UC commercials have heard the short and long term side effects and risks. It's worth it right now, but we'll see where I am 5-10 years from now.

They will make it mandatory without making it mandatory.. for example you won't be able to enroll your kids in school without it. You won't be able to fly internationally (or perhaps at all) without it. You won't be able to join the military without it. You won't be able to work with kids without it. You won't be able to work with the elderly without it. You won't be able to work in healthcare without it. So by default the majority of Americans who just want to lead a normal life will have to get it... but it's not mandatory.

100% correct. Similar to how they will 'ban' guns. They can't, but they can tax you on each one, yearly, as well as the ammunition. You'll still be able to have guns (most guns), but they will tax them out of reach for many.

Potentially, yes. However, vaccines have been a basic part of our society for a very long time. There are requirements on the MMR vaccine to attend schools. Doesn't that fit into your example too? I'm sure this will end up being similar in some industries and not in others. And yes, other countries may require it to enter their country, but that's on them. Also, this is a big deal right now because case rates are high, but if enough be recover from this and the other get the vaccine, the rates should drop fast...making the vaccine requirement moot (herd immunity).

In general, you can say that about a lot of things we require as Americans. I can't get a job without a residence, ID, education and basic hygiene. I can't buy a car without insurance and a drivers license. I can't buy a burger without pants on at a restaurant either. Are those all examples of "mandatory without making it mandatory" too? I'm not being literal and half making a joke, but you know what I mean.

We all make concessions and adjustments to lead a normal life. If this becomes a requirement, it's just another brick in the wall, not a whole new wall.

One of the differences being, buying a burger without pants won't kill over 300,000 people.

It amazes me how somehow people think it's "their right" to possibly infect and even kill their fellow Americans. I think they need to find a better argument to stand on.

It's not your right to risk harm to others by neglectful conduct.

It's interesting, looking back on all the times I've interacted with people at work, family parties or at the grocery store, it explains a lot about a person.

I can think of many examples of greeting someone at a New Years Eve party and it going like this:

Me: "Hey autie!"
Aunt: "It's been so long, give me a hug and kiss" *hug and kiss on cheek*
Me: "How are you doing?"
Aunt: "Not so well, I've been super sick. I was off work all last week."

I want to punch them and say, "Hey jerk, I'm taking meds that compromise my immune system. You could put me in the hospital or worse." The "worse" isn't likely, but it's not a 0% chance.

And of course, there are other people, like me, that would warn the person reaching in for a handshake or hug. I've always been that person. Sure, prior to Covid, it was a "harmless" cold or flu, although we know they aren't truly harmless, but you know what I mean. I would avoid people because I didn't want to give anyone my bug, because it sick being is horrible.

Some people don't care or think it's just part of being a human (you get sick, build your immune system and you're better for it later).

Kind of along the same lines as what you're saying...

The weirdest thing for me through this whole COVID thing has been not shaking hands or hugging people when I normally would... and is something I'm STILL catching myself nearly doing.

mask? Easy
distancing? Easy
modifying schedule/routines to lessen exposure? doable

But not shaking hands with someone when we meet or hugging family after not seeing them for a while? dang near impossible

I'm not anti-vaccine.. hell I went to Africa last February (right before the pandemic started going nuts in America, in fact I was less than a week from starting to be worried if I could get back) and I got shot up with all kinds of stuff because I had to. I got my flu shot in November. I will get this vaccine too, I'm just not in a rush to be first..

The thing is, if you want to wait to see if there are any issues... you're going to have to wait for a little while.

Basically, waiting a month or two really isn't going to make any difference.

Actually, for the majority of us it will be months before it will be our turn to get the vaccine. By then we will have a very good idea of how safe it is. For the general population the predictions seem to be some time between April and June.

My thought process at this time is that I would prefer the Moderna over the Pfizer vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine must be stored at around eighty to ninety degrees below zero F. The Moderna vaccine can be stored at refrigerator temperatures. I would be more likely to feel secure with a vaccine that can be far more easily stored and shipped.

Eh... I see what you're saying. I didn't think about the monitoring of the front-liners while we're waiting... that's a really good point.

Still, there are a couple key populations (pregnant women, kids) that still won't have a good pool of data.

We were just informed that we'll be getting the Moderna vaccine at our facility....like very soon. We were also told that we are responsible for doing our own research before receiving it (whatever that means, we were not told where to look). As of now, it is not mandatory.

Was it the Astrazenica clinical trial that had the worst data of the 3 (poorly organized trial)?

j/c...

Moderna vaccine is reportedly 94% effective, which is very high for a new vaccine... obviously time will tell.

Reinfection rate, according to CDC is "rare" (they seem to be taking great strides to avoid the subject).

I don't think there will be any way to justify requiring people who have already had the virus get the vaccine. I know I'll be in no hurry.

I know the rate of effectiveness isn't nearly as good as Pfizer or Moderna. At least according to the last reports that I saw.

The results confirm that two standard doses of the vaccine were 62% effective in preventing symptomatic Covid-19 disease in some trials. But when efficacy data from the trials were combined — including trials in which volunteers received a low dose followed by a standard dose of vaccine — the vaccine was deemed to be 70% efficacious.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/08/deta...erate-efficacy/

Both Pfizer and Moderna are in the 94% to 95% range in efficacy.

I remember that, but I believe it's far easier to distribute/transport.

The thing I'm talking about is that there were major questions about how the clinical trial was conducted.

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/26/939367422...-admits-a-mista

I get my first shot tomorrow... if I turn into a zombie I want y'all to know I appreciate all of you on this message board.....

On the bright side Zombies can't get covid.

Braaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiinnnnnssssssss .........

Here's the primary difference between the accepted mandatory vaccinations like the MMR and something like Covid... those other diseases are typically ones that the public at large can be susceptible and suffer from. The data shows that deaths involving Covid are heavily reliant on comorbidity risk factors.

Although they act like it, Covid is not like small pox or something that will run rampant through a town and wipe out most of the population regardless risk factors.

Once we get the vaccine supply and distribution chain dialed in there's no reason not to treat it like we do the flu shot especially if the Covid vaccine is significantly more effective than your annual flu shot.

Good luck.

According to a friend of mine, who is a doctor, this may not be about personal preference but the market will gravitate toward the one that can be shipped and stored most conveniently.. so, if you are correct and I'll just take your word for it, Moderna might win out for mass distribution on that fact alone since it's very expensive and inefficient to ship and store things at sub-zero.

j/c...

My brother will receive the Moderna vaccine tomorrow. As a frontline worker, he's eager to get inoculated.

From everything I've seen, the Moderns vaccine can be stored at refrigerator temperatures while the Pfizer vaccine must be stored at about 80 degrees below zero. It's the main reason that more rural hospitals are receiving the Moderna vaccine. They simply lack the resources for the ultra cold storage requirements of the Pfizer vaccine.

Small, rural hospitals relying on Moderna COVID-19 vaccine

https://www.kcrg.com/2020/12/17/small-rural-hospitals-relying-on-moderna-covid-19-vaccine/

Thanks Pit.. and as they ramp up the mass roll out, which I'm assuming will be available at places like CVS and Walgreens, the ability to store in a refrigerator will be equally important.

Still alive... my arm was sore for days... and i was really fatigued the day after... actually took a nap which I never do.

I've heard side effects are worse with the second dose.. we'll see.

Getting my first vaccine tomorrow morning. Happy New Year!!

Great news Jules!

Just got the first Moderna vaccine this morning. No side effects so far.

Damn... I still wait...
....I’m just a nurse though.

I really hope I get it offered within the next couple of weeks.

I’m sorry to hear that, Portland. Have they not received the vaccine yet, or do you know what the reason is that you haven’t been vaccinated or scheduled?

It’s starting to make its way into the nursing homes. I don’t work directly in a facility. I’m an ancillary nurse. I go into a bunch of facilities all over the city to see clients. My guess is they’ll get the facility staffs and residents vaccinated first. Then the ancillary types of nurses, hospice/home health/wound care, will be next... I hope.

Ok. Hopefully very soon.

You'd think they'd want to stop folks like you potentially courier'ing it to all the different facilities.

I agree, but I don’t make the rules.
From day one I’ve worked diligently to keep myself healthy, my discipline with PPE use strong, and my personal social life/social circle small. I do this because if I get sick, especially asymptomatic, I don’t want to be the vector that carries this from facility to facility. While not being employed by a facility directly is nice, as it provides me more autonomy, it also exposes me to far more people. Therefore increasing my risk of exposure.
The more these facilities get their staff and residents vaccinated the safer they become from me. I’ll take that relief from pressure. Not that it’ll change my behaviors but at least it’ll lesson my fear of harming others.
In time the facilities will likely start requiring outside providers to be vaccinated to come in. I hope I get mine before that outside ‘pressure’ is needed.
That said I’d gladly take a step back in line if I could give my vaccine to my mom. She’s my biggest concern. COVID would likely be her end. She’s has a great active life but also has the types of comorbidities that COVID preys on. I’d likely recover if I got sick... I’d lose her if she did.
That’s the type of reality that keeps me up at night.

It's been a week since the injection. Other than the site being sore for a few days, no side effects. We received notice 2 days ago that everyone in the organization can now register for a time to receive the vaccine, including non-frontline workers. Our facility really had their act together quickly getting the vaccine to a large number of people.

Portland, you should be getting it very soon. Yesterday, Lucas county put out a registration page for all citizens to sign up for the vaccine. That is the only way to do it...get an infrastructure in place with registration for dates and times to receive it. The walk-in for senior citizens turned out to be a real disaster in Florida.

I got a call from HR yesterday asking if I want the vaccine. So I guess my office is trying to get it arranged. Still no timeline given, but at least I know they’re working towards the goal.

The hospital system I am working with has been excellent also. They set us up for our second vaccine during the 15 minutes they were monitoring us, I immediately received the email with the date and time as I waited there. They are getting huge numbers done. I wish everyone could be as efficient as they have been.

Ummmmm, yeah, anything that the government is giddy for me to do, I'm pretty such I'll do the exact opposite.

I don't trust the government to do anything in anyway shape or form. I especially don't take advice from them!!! Lolololol

You’ll show ‘em!!

He wouldn't even eat their cheese.

Do you take your advice from Q?

Like get vaccines at birth
Save for retirement
Own a home
Wear a seatbelt
Drive a safe/fuel efficient vehicle

Stuff like that?

Understandable to think this way.

Hopefully they are not going to require an email as this is a dealbreaker and totally unreliable one of the most dangerous things on earth if you listen to the cyber security commercials
which I don't know how anyone can trust the cyber security commericals either because everything they introduce they immediately claim is the most vulnerable thing to cyber attack there ever was,
only to be solved by the next thing they introduce

almost like no one can be sure who is actually doing the attacks,

We know we can Not trust the cyber securities, because 60minutes tells us periodically how the US is so grosly inept in the computer wars vs other, any other country.

plus email never reliably transmits messages, or allows access to see those messages.

I chose voluntary.

I think the reason being, on election day 1976, I, at 19yo, sat with my grandmother 10'-12' outside of the veryvery small Richmond Hts. Hospital emergency room for 15-20 minutes listening to emergency room doctors working on my grandfather yelling....."HANG IN THERE MR. P". "HANG IN THERE MR. P. "HANG IN THERE"......

..........silence.

Dead

Pulmonary Adela. Lungs filled up with fluid.

They attributed it to the swine flu vaccination he received that morning. Every time I hear or read the term "vaccine" I think of that night.

I know it's a psychological thing but.....

Just........Dunno?

That's a sad story. I remember how much I cared about my grandparents. It must have been tough on you and your family. Very tough.

Sorry to hear that. Losing somebody close to you like that can certainly be traumatic. Just try to be objective, try to weigh the best current science available.

Have you received your second one jay or jfanent? Getting my second one Wednesday, just wondering how it went for you guys.

I'm due on the 27th. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that the side effects are worse with the second injection, more incidents of fever, chills and joint aches. People at my facility are just starting the second shots this week I believe. I'll find out soon if this is true.

I’m now circumventing my office and seeking a vaccine outside their direction. It’s absurd that as a frontline worker I’m having to navigate this in my own. Yet here I am. My girlfriend, also a nurse, got her first jab on Sunday. I’m in a queue waiting for a return email with directions...

It's stupid, asinine, goofy, and so so disrespectful. I am glad we have folks like you in our country bro.

That really sucks. I don't know if you have a Kroger pharmacy out that way, but I was able to sign up my elderly mother in law. The county portal said there were no slots available, but I went right to the Kroger pharmacy website and was able to make her appointment. She gets it this week. Given what you do for a living, you should be at the front of anybody's line.

j/c

My mother in law is 82 and lives in a very rural town in Tennessee. She was able to receive her first dose just last week. We were very concerned given her location if it would be available for her. We will rest much easier after after she gets that second dose.

My mom is getting her first one this evening. I was getting worried because it took so long for them to get back with her. I’m relieved.

I got my second one this morning. My arm is definitely more sore than it was with the first. Other than that, no other side effects yet.

Portland, I’m really sorry you are being let down with the poor management of all this in some areas.

Had my first shot yesterday. Slight headache for a few hours then nothing. Woke up this morning with a sore arm. Might have to keep my motorcycle ride to an hour today

Finally!
I was out seeing patients this morning when my girlfriend called me. She doesn’t call me when she knows I’m with clients. So I knew I needed to answer... she found a vaccine clinic website to get me signed up. She, also a nurse, managed to find one and get jabbed this past Sunday. Ever since she’s been on the search to get me vaccinated too. Today she scored. Big. I was able to sign up for mine at noon tomorrow. I turned my coworkers onto the clinic after I got my appointment lined up. Many of them jumped on it. Over the next few days me and many of my coworkers will finally get their first dose.
A huge relief for me and my teammates. I won’t lie it’s made me a little emotional. This has been the hardest year of my 23 year career. I’m a ‘roll with the punches’ sort of guy, but the underlying stress of all this has been weighty. I feel at least some semblance of hope and relief.
The reality is this virus is likely going to be with us for longer than anyone really wants to admit. But if I can keep my 48 year old self from severe illness I’ll take it as a step in the right direction.
I’d encourage you all to roll up your sleeves when the time comes for you to do your part.
Be safe everyone.

I'm really happy for you. It's a shame you had to wait so long.

My arm was sore as hell for several days after the first one

After second dose my arm was sore for a bit but I was pretty achy and really fatigued the next day... I spent the day resting on the couch... then I was fine...

I have had some employees who had fevers and more severe achiness/fatigue than i had... but overall side effects haven't been too bad

In a meeting yesterday, my boss informed us that a lot of people are feverish and achy after the second shot, and to plan accordingly....meaning make sure our work is caught up. He said that the symptoms seem to be peaking late in the day, the next day after getting the injection. There are only 3 people in my department and 2 of us are getting our 2nd shots Wednesday.

Well I have a sore arm for sure. More than any other vaccine/shot I’ve ever gotten. It’s not unbearable but it’s certainly tender.
Last night I dealt with insomnia. I can’t say that it’s related as I deal with insomnia all too often. I had to get up and take a half an Ambien last night. That did the trick though I only slept for about 5 hours before woke up feeling wide awake. The Ambien only ‘fools’ me into falling asleep, it doesn’t always keep me there. Hopefully tonight is better. It often comes in 2-3 night waves. Again likely not related to my vaccine... though it is the arm/side I sleep on and I certainly felt the ache in my deltoid more when I laid on it to try to sleep. So, slightly related??

The more you move your arm the quicker the soreness goes away. It's like walking the day after surgery. You know it's going to hurt, but the sooner, and the more you walk the quicker you feel better.

One word

Indica

If that's not "Hammer Meets Nail" then I don't know what is.

I received the 2nd vaccine yesterday morning at 9:30. Other than a very sore arm until bedtime at 11pm, I had no side effects. I woke up around 1 and couldn't get back to sleep until 5:00. I didn't really have any issues except the arm, but couldn't nod back off. I finally went back to sleep until the alarm went off at 6:15, awoke freezing my butt off under the comforter. That never happens. I feel like I haven't slept in days, my joints are aching, my heads foggy and it feels exactly like having the flu. Work's going to be a hoot. Luckily I can wear this hoody and skullcap for the chills.

One thing I also learned yesterday.....do NOT take ibuprofen or other ANSAIDS as a preventive measure for side effects. It greatly decreases the efficacy of the injection by blocking the immune response to it. I'm surprised this isn't being publicized more.

My second dose unfortunately happens to fall on the day I leave for a weekend trip to the Oregon coast. My 10 year anniversary with my girlfriend. I’m hoping any side effects don’t mess up our weekend plans. I’m not typically one to get side effects to stuff but knowing my luck....

Update: My girlfriend managed to grab another appointment for her next vaccine. Unfortunately it’ll be 31 days after her first. Not the 21 recommended by Pfizer. I’ve been doing some reading. While not ideal, it seems there’s a 5 to 6 week window that you really have to avoid going past to get any real overlapping effect of the two doses. Past that threshold there doesn’t appear to be the ability for the two doses to ‘interact’ and compound their strength. So while not the desired span, she’ll at least be within that larger window.

So the "2nd" shot,
Remember all the side effects that were discussed somewhere on DT about 6 weeks ago being touted in some foreign land of problems from this shot
Just heard the anecdote including these match to match troubles with side effects.

Cold feeling, Fever, severe headache, pain in arm of shot, and teeth chattering.

apparently, - more than a couple people are going to the hospital from side effects of the "2nd" covid shot,
but don't expect fake news to keep anyone honed up on this nightmare.

This is just one person's experience, but make sure to take som ES Tylenol on your trip. I took some about the same time I posted yesterday and the symptoms decreased by at least 75% and I was getting thru work without a problem. About 4 hrs later, the symptoms came back with a vengeance. I took my lunch at that time and took some Ibuprofen after reading that it was ok to take after receiving the injection. By the time lunchtime was over, I was feeling pretty good. Outside of being tired and the sore arm, I've been pretty much back to normal since. I slept like a baby last night. My co worker that took the injection on the same day (though she took it late in the afternoon) was just starting to feel crappy at the end of the day. She's in her 40's and took some ES Tylenol earlier in the day when she saw how I was doing. I'm off today so I don't know how she fared last night.

One thing I'd like to add is that Tylenol rarely does anything for me when I take it for a headache or other pain. It was very effective with these side effects.

I wonder how Jules did with the second injection? Her last post was on the day she received it.

I had the same issues that I did with the first one, sore arm and fatigue, only with the second dose I would say it doubled the effect. I worked the next day, but I was really dragging in the afternoon. I was still tired the second day after, but drove 5 hours to home without any issue.

I feel so blessed to have received such early access to the vaccine. I’m hoping the process speeds up for everyone.

Yay or nay, gotta fit in this thread somewhere.....

Sorry to hear about the insomnia. I have always been one who woke early. Wait until you are 60-70 years old. With an inevitable enlarging prostrate, you won't get much sleep at all. If I want to get 6-7 hours total sleep, I have to go to bed around 7pm because I wake up about every 2 hours, and once I do around 3:30am, there is no falling back asleep, or rarely. Going to bed at 10pm does no good. I still wake up around 3:30...that's the time I got up for years when working. The internal clock has been set.

I got my first shot on Monday and had no issues. I lucked into the shot by being at the local VA for an eye exam. They told me I could sign up for a shot since I was 50+. I asked and there were available shots since it was late in the day. I guess they have no shows each day.

I'm sharing for my fellow vets who are looking for shots.

WOOHOO One step closer to being able to meet up again