DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Freddie Kitchens..what was a crowning achievement before this year?

I trust Dorsey on this one, but I think its not a matter of time, not at the level we have been playing.

Something has to be done to the coaching staff, bring someone to mentor FK, for example.

If you throw someone in a pool and after 5 minutes he is not swimming and is going down in the pool, you should throw him a rope...

J/C

From an article about "what went wrong in KC". A lot sounds familiar.



I highlighted parts that seem to have happened here already, with Hyde (which worked out well because we had Chubb) and looks to be what is happening with Callaway over Higgins with Callaway playing over him.

We see that again with Callaway and Freddie seems to be the same way when it comes to players committing penalty after penalty.

I think Dorsey is a great talent evaluator. But I think he has made some big downfalls on this team so far.

1. Callaway - letting him get away with the weed in the car with just a warning, THEN not doing anything after he gets in trouble again backwalking from those threats, just to let him START as soon as he gets back???? No accountability here. And we see that with the team as whole with penalties and play on the field.

2. Getting rid of players because they were not his guys. We have seen him jettison decent players that could have helped this team for guys he drafted or signed that just were not as good.

3. Freddie - I don't think John wanted someone that would rock the boat. So he chose Freddie in PART because he really didn't deserve the job, and Freddie would be beholden to him to do things John's way. Which is exactly what this article pointed out.

4. Handling of players - I think it was wrong to start Hyde over Chubb, obviously we see that. The kid is crazy special. But to trade Hyde, and not had told anyone - that's discourse brought on by the GM. Not a good look. It also now looks like hes going to trade Higgins, and the coach is throwing a good kid and hard worker under the bus for no reason seemingly other than its not a JD guy.

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/29/kansas-city-chiefs-john-dorsey-fired-nfl-notebook

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article158155634.html

I wasn't sure where to post this so I'll put it here. The best bosses I ever worked for were the ones who were tough but fair. The employees did their job because there was a certain amount of fear if they didn't there would be repercussions. When you had a weak boss people didn't care as much and slacked off unless you were a good employee that cared. It seems as though we have that going on here which is directly related to the penalties and miscues. Freddie has been stressing this from the 1st game and we haven't gotten better. Do you think this would be going on with a BB coached team or Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs, Vince Lombardi etc.? I doubt it very much. The players have to step up and do their jobs but I think we are lacking some in the coaching. JMO

Yeah, the Chiefs suck!

Where did I say the chiefs suck? I simply pointed out that there were reasons John Dorsey was fired. Fired from a team that had made the playoffs under him. It begs to question. We are seeing a lot of the same things here as to why he was fired in KC.

I fear for your reading comprehension sometimes.

That has nothing to do with it. It's the information you posted that's the issue. The reason Dorsey was let go was a power struggle between himself and Andy Reed. There have been other theories such as you posted bantered about, but most everyone knows that the Chiefs had to either part with Reed or Dorsey because of the power struggle between the two.

I can read and comprehend just fine. It's just that the made up scenarios in the article you posted are flawed.

It was reported by some as " Management style and lack of communication ", but it was an obvious riff between himself and Reed.

Just got back from the grocery store...I was wearing my Browns beanie and a rando guy says to me "sorry about your coach, man".

2500 miles away and fans of other teams are already feeling bad for us. Even when it seems like there is hope the Browns misfortunes, pain and embarrassment never seems to go away.

One day we shall rise (again).

I had a similar experience and it was prior to the New England game.

Strangers are more sympathetic than friends in anything related with sports...

My friends keep on sending me the milkman meme... they are enjoying my misery.

Im not sure Freddy is going to make it here, and I don't think Dorsey is a very good GM.

I think Dorsey is pretty good at identifying talent, but there is much more to being a good GM than identifying talent. I don't see Dorsey as a guy that "has control" of the Browns which he should be. I don't see him as being that assertive guy, the SI article linked earlier shows he isn't a very good manager, and he doesn't reallyknow much about how to run an organizational structure.

Personally, barring a complete turnaround this offseason,i'd part ways with both Dorsey and Kitchens. I'd go out and hire an actual GM, not a glorified scout.

I really like Mike Tannenbaum. He worked in the Browns personnel department back in the day when Lombardi was hired by Bellichik when he was with the Browns.

Tannenbaum had a run as General Manager of the NY Jets from 2006-2012. During that time his team had a reg season record of won 57 games and lost 55 games, which is actually pretty good considering it is Jets and the NY market is tough, and Woddy Johnson doesn't exactly make it easy. He also Hired Rex Ryan, had 2 AFC Title Game appearances,and made the playoffs 3 times.

Why Tannenbaum? Because he has experience. He has shown that he can deal with strong personalities at both the ownership and coach level with Woody Johnson and Rex Ryan, He proved he can run a scouting department at a high level, he knows how to draft and evaluate input from others, He has a firm control of the organization, and both suits and coaches alike like the guy and are willing to go to bat for him.

At the end of the day he assumes all the command but takes all the responsibility, he has big shoulders, he is something this organization can lean on much like the Steelers leaned on Tom Donohoe for a long time.

Taunenbaum is also good at picking coaches, Mangini had 2 winning seasons in 3 years, and Rex Ryan had 2 playoff berths in 4 years.

Taunenbaum is a guy that can set this organizations base where it needs to be in front office, in the scouting department, in the coaching staff, and the players. He is a guy that can get this ship pointed in the right direction so we can get out of this quagmire once and for all. He will be here a long time because he will be successful, and 10 years from now we will be able to hand it off to someone else and be in good shape.

This is our Tom Donohoe that will get things turned around for us longterm. Just my take.

Dude, too right! It has come to the point where I am watching the score of the UofO games hoping they lose to some crap team so I can return the smack they give me (Ducks fans are really obnoxious). After every Browns loss my phone blows up and then I have to deal with the sarcastic smiles of colleagues at work on Monday. Probably doesn't help that I have three bets riding on their season (I had two last year and I won them both...I was a tad bit more confident this year and the colleagues I made bets with are enjoying the fact that we have dug ourselves into a hole). I still believe I can win them, however.

J/c

I’m not worried about the talent part of our team. I’m worried about the leadership part ... both from the coaching staff and from the players. It seems like we have players on their own islands with no plan, accountability, discipline, or togetherness.

There isn't much you do like, huh?