DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season NFL 2020 Post Season Now that the Browns are out...

that’d be awesome. I do think a true offseason of consistency will do him a world of good as well. Something he’s never had

I certainly don't disagree with you. However I would certainly also like to add in fairness that Alan came from a very small school and was very raw when he was drafted. I wouldn't take Alan over Baker. That wasn't the point in any of this.

My only point was how some here seem to disregard Alan as being inaccurate and dissed him. My point is that if he were wearing a Browns uniform they would be praising his play and how much he has improved this year.

Both are good QB's. I believe Baker now being in a stable system will reap great benefits that we'll all get to witness.

At least we agree Landry is overpaid.

Landry is not overpaid.

There was an article from Dawgpound Daily listing some FAs that probably wouldn't be retained. Among others on the list were Jarvis and/or OBJ and Richardson, and they were opting to let Jarvis go because he wasn't a deep threat. I read that thinking to myself "might as well cut/trade Baker and Chubb if you want to kneecap the team so badly".

I hope that was just somebody blowing hot air. Listening to KS talk, he sure appreciates what Landry brings to the team, both on the field and in the locker room.

Landry catches the ball, gets first downs and is a guy that binds the team together.

I know he will be expensive, I hope it can be worked out for him to retire here.

Landry would be a huge loss, IMO, for reasons you stated. He’s a true team leader on a team that hasn’t had many.

Nonsense. Some of us have been hard on Wentz ever since he got outplayed by Nick Foles in back-to-back seasons in 2017 and 2018. I can't remember the last time I didn't throw shade on Wentz.

GC. I can't find Rishuz: original twice quoted line of
" I think Baker will be an early MVP candidate next year."

While I think Baker will be playing well enough, and the team will be doing well enough

I don't think he will be a top 5 mention in MVP candidates, in the first month of next season.

Likely? No.

Could be? Absolutely.

With a full offseason and real practices (hopefully) under their belt, this offense could come out lighting teams up the way KC does. There's little reason to think they couldn't. That would very much put him in the MVP talk.

Landry is that guy that no matter where he lines up, they have to account for him, he is always a threat, and he is not afraid to go across the middle.

He typically his dependable, although he seemed to have a few games this year that he wasn't as dependable. I am hoping that's a result of the on/off practices due to covid, and not getting regular practice time, and the routines getting out of sync.

I don't think Foles ever outperformed Wentz.

The Eagles have mismanaged Wentz. And I still think he can be decent to great.

Foles has always been garbage and just rode Wentz's coattails when they won the Super Bowl.

Get Baker that deep threat and I think you'll be surprised. I almost think more than anything on defense, one of the top needs for this team is a speed receiver.

I would keep OBJ over Landry and get someone like Perriman to play opposite him and watch Baker light up opposing defenses. Hooper/Njoku open underneath. We could have the most dynamic offenses in the league.

I think Foles almost always outperformed Wentz,
in fact, I don't remember any Wentz performance.

It's amazing what winning 1 game can do for a career. But not remembering any Wentz performance doesn't make Foles any better. (Foles isn't better)

No real disagreements on OBJ, just not hopeful for Njoku. Isn't thins his option year?

We'll have to pay a lot of money to keep him. It's not that I don't like the guy, but I think I would rater allocate those dollars to the defensive side of the ball. I think that would help us win more games on balance.

Hooper and Harrison make a pretty good tandem.

No doubt Foles isn't any better, but still...

It makes me think of that old saying about when you have two quarterbacks, you really have none.

Good QB's are so scarce that when your backup comes in and plays just as well, it usually means you're not that good. There are times obviously when small sample sizes throw that off (just because Mariota came in and looked good for a game obviously doesn't mean Carr is an average QB, for example).

But when it happens for large stretches of games and over a couple seasons, well...

Probably why there's rumblings in San Fran about Garopppolo. He is obviously better than Nick Mullens, but even when they were winning, Mullens came in and the offense didn't look too much worse. This year, the offense did look worse, so I still think Garoppolo is a solid QB, but "franchise"....meh.

Or the Steelers, when Ben was out last year they looked like a mess on offense (obviously Ben was huge the year before in 2018). Then this last season he went out for one game and their offense looked a bit better in a lot of ways (small sample again, but not surprisingly the birds started to chirp their concerns over Roethlisberger retiring--- he has lost a lot of what he once was)

Speaking of aging QB's, when Brees went out in 2019 and Bridgewater managed to get a string of a few wins, someone signed him to a big money deal. All the sudden that looks like a bad idea as the Panthers are picking in the top 10 and looking to upgrade QB. Alas, playing almost as well as a 40 year old QB for a period of 4-ish games did not make Teddy ready.

With the crazy exception of the year The Patriots defense helped carry them to an 11-5 record without Brady, if the sample size is good (and especially if it's over multiple seasons), when your back up comes in and shines, your starter is not that good. Even the Pats didn't have two QB's, but for Cassel to play that well for that many games and still not work while Brady is the GOAT is the exception I'm referencing BTW. Obviously they had their QB.

On a Browns' board and didn't even mention Couch and Holcomb.

Anyway, Foles played as well or better for multiple games over multiple seasons with Wentz and then got outplayed everywhere else. The likelihood of Wentz being a high-end starter at this point is pretty small. It's not just Foles playoff run in 2017. He went 4-1 in 2018 on a team Wentz lead to a 5-6 record. That sample size is too big for me to ignore.

When you have two quarterbacks, you really have none.

IIRC we were rumored to offer 2#1's and a #2 to NE for Garrappolo. IN hindsight not a good deal for us. Good thing it never came to fruition.

I have a hard time taking the Garrapolo situation at face value. He showed up in San Fran and they couldn't NOT win games. Then he goes down and they suck. That tells me he's good. Now he's not good? I don't know a lot of the in's and out's in San Fran, but like the Rams with Goff, I just think there has to be more to it than a QB who started out unstoppable is now a JAG.

I don't think he will be either because the narrative surrounding the Browns going into next season will be about the running game and that Baker needs to be "good enough" and continue his trend of not turning the ball over and blahblahblah..

Nobody is going to be looking at Baker as the guy who has to carry the team and that will keep him out of the MVP conversation.

The Browns morphed into a passing team that set up the run the second half of the year. Expect that to continue next year. Baker is going to come out on absolute fire next year. Mark it down. Him and the team are hungry, they got a taste of success, same coaches, more maturity, etc., etc.

This reminds me so much of the year before Rodgers broke out. You could literally predict it happening.

It could.

The thing is that it appears our coaching staff is smart. The game planning seems to be dictated upon our opponents weaknesses, as it should be.

If a team has a decent pass defense but a poor run defense, we run against them. If they have a decent run defense but a poor pass defense, we pass against them. I don't see our team as being pass-centric or run-centric.

As such it doesn't really produce what the experts may describe as "super stars" at the QB position. Everyone plays their roles and that role changes from game to game depending on the opponent and the scoreboard.

That won't make Baker any less of a QB. What I think it will do is the game plan won't give him the opportunity to showcase his ultimate talent in every game leading to what would be considered an MVP season to those who actually have a say in the matter.

Don't disagree with this. Browns got such a reputation as a run first team that as the season progressed, opponents game planned primarily to stop the run. Several times I thought we got a little too pass-heavy early in games but when our passing game was working it really did look like somebody trying to stop LeBron when his outside shot was working.. pick your poison, get up in his face and he'll get by you or back off and he'll drain a 3..

Looking forward to what they are able to accomplish in a second offseason where they can really learn from what worked and what didn't and improve on it for next year.