DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Should the Browns take Bernie Kosar up on his offer to clean up their mess?

I would take Bernie in a heart beat, and not because he couldn't be any worse (which he couldn't) but because the man is brilliant and always has been.

I concur with his take completely. The focus by this crew from day one has been the marketing and not the football on the field.

Drum lines smoke and fire video trons and uniforms which do nothing to make the product on the field better.

And for our part we buy into all this non sense from loving Text to now hating him from loving Pet to teetering on total distain.

The fan base is as bad as the ownership.

Our problems are simple and no one seems to be able to get a handle on it, not management(certainly).

Look folks this defense for instance will play better in the coming weeks, its because we continually make wholesale changes to the roster year in and year out, that's our downfall, that and poor drafting which is why Text MUST go.

But it should stop there, and the changes we do make need to be targeted -vs- wholesale that's when you'll see us move forward steadily.

Right now these guys should be getting Gipson and Benji under contract but they won't because they place zero value on continuity themselves and they drag us down by it.

But you all will hash this out endlessly and fail to see what is right in front of your faces, as usual.

JF should have started from the very beginning of the season we had and have nothing to lose, yet most of you thought that we were playoff bound, well how did that work.

Keep a group of players together and allow them the time they need to come together and be productive. Just watch the D will get better at the close of the season just like last season.

Completely agree with those comments...for obvious reasons.

[quote]Kosar, who's been critical of Haslam and the current regime, ripped the losing culture under Haslam

Not a good way to interview for a job..[quote/]



No doubt....."Jimmy, you suck, you are more about branding, and the team sucks. Hire me"


LOL...right

Then he added this:



LOL.........that's not exactly the way to endear yourself to a prospective employer.

You guys kill me on here, Bernie is the only one in the media calling it like it really is. He has a great mind and vision for this team, he understands football, he understands players, he understands our city and our culture and what us fans deserve. He gets it and he's 100% correct, the last 16 years are unacceptable and everyone knows it. Haslam is NOT a football person, he is a football fan with a ton of money and his strength is marketing and making money not putting a quality team on the field. Why wouldn't anyone jump at the opportunity of Bernie being a team president and/or GM? Everyone that says he has no qualifications is just fooling themselves because did Chud, Shurmer, Pettine, Farmer have tons of experience or ever a head coach/GM? You can go back through the past 16 years and all that we've hired are newbies looking for that "next" great coach or GM. You have someone in Bernie that loves the browns, loves this city and the fans and wants to build a winner no matter at what cost but yeah let's just blow him off and hire some "up and coming" coach and GM and let Haslam hire his business buddy Scheiner as president. So the new coach and GM will make plenty of mistakes their first 2-3 years and we'll hire someone else, that's the last 16 years in a nutshell folks and it's not changing anytime soon. At least with Bernie running the show as GM/President I guarantee you that the player talent on this team would increase... the guy knows football period.

I am not so sure Haslam is relying on Scheiner concerning football matters. I believe that still rests with Farmer. Scheiner isn't making waiver wire picks.

No doubt Haslam may be talking to Scheiner(why wouldn't he) about the future of the team and where they might go if it is decided that Farmer needs to go.

I think you and some others are building up this Scheiner connection way more than is the reality.

Farmer is his football guy. If Haslam has lost confidence in Ray, it is normal he would be talking to Scheiner about possible moves come the off season.

Who should he be talking to at this point is my question? He can't just bring in somebody at this point. That would be a clear undermining of Farmer. He might as well just can the guy right now.

Haslam is doing it the right way. Let it play out, then after the season, let Farmer and or Pet go if that is the decision, then you bring in your next football guy to make the football decisions.

I think if anything, Scheiner is the guy in charge of rounding up possible candidates who might be considered after the season. I doubt we are going to see Scheiner placed in charge of football operations after the season.

Scheiner is team President. Second only to the owner. It makes sense that Haslam and Scheiner have a close relationship.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, I love Bernie and I was actually pissed when he was pulled from calling the preseason games, but to think he could be a GM?

This guy has been outta football for how long? There's been so much evolution to the game since he played it and in so many various aspects. . What makes someone think he's any more capable of targeting talent than what we have?

He's not served in any management roles. I'm sorry but you got to mention his life problems, which are noted.

I don't see the Bernie as President/GM love that's going on here. I'm all for getting him here as an advisor or something, but not in a keen position.

I don't see what all the fuss is about Bernie. He wants to be here in some type of capacity, hopefully in the FO,and I don't see how he can do any worse than what we've had the past 16 years. In fact, I think he can do a better job JMO. If we make a change give him a shot. At least he won't be in it just for the money. He's a Brown and he cares.

ya'll crack me up.

Why is everyone saying he's been out of Football?

He was a commentator for many years and he still talks about football all the time. He still does interivews shows etc. He still breaks downs games.

He lives football, he loves it, and he's obsessed with it. He chooses football as a passion not as a job. What more could you ask for in a team leader? Managers jobs are to find and motivate the right people and make decisions based on other people's findings.

The ones that fail at management are the ones that try to make decisions based on their opinions and don't motivate their teams. He just has to find the right people to do the work.

Well what I had in mind was GM. I don't need Bernie worrying about counting pennies. Just pick players and get it done.

yea. thats what i was thinking.

JC

I wonder if the same people who rip Manziel for his alcohol issues and don't want him to be the QB because of them are also vehemently against Kosar being in the front office or on the coaching staff.

I agree with every sentence in your whole post. I didn't quote it all because it's the first post at the top of this page.

This team needs someone above the GM and HC who would be in charge of Football Operations. Someone to work with the GM and HC to develop a working plan/strategy and to make sure they stick to it while staying within their respective roles/duties/team responsibilities. Someone to monitor them to insure neither crosses their line.

The team needs someone, highly football-minded, to take responsibility and to whom the GM and HC, as a team, is accountable.

We need someone to slap some sense into the football side of the team. I could care less about the "fan experience" at the stadium. The best fan experience is to witness winning football. I'd rather give up the jumbo video board, the 4G WiFi, the fancy concessions and all the rest of the "fan experience" to stand in a restroom, shoe-sole-deep in piss, cheering on a winning team. Been there. Done that.



On the "Tailgate 19" TV show, which airs on a Cleveland station just before each game, Kosar said something that I felt was profound. The panel, which included the TV host, Hanford Dixon, Bob Golic and Bernie, were talking about the lack of playmakers, the inability to run the ball, the inability to stop the run and other such issues.

Bernie stated that (paraphrase), "All of these things are valid points for discussion. But we have been having these exact same discussions on these exact same problems every year for 16 years."



Ain't it the God-awful truth?! How can it possibly be?!



Point being, the roster has turned over many times over the 16 years since our return. We've had 5 different GMs and 7 different HCs and yet, we have the exact same problems over and over and over for 16 years as though no changes had been made. In addition, it seems the top of the food chain has no idea how to fix these problems other than to fire/replace another GM and HC.

And because that's the way it's always been done the fans have grown accustomed to believing that it is the firing/replacing of football people which is going to fix the problems. At least it brings the hope that it will. But that hope is never anything but a wisp of smoke that dissipates, leaving no hope at all.


We need a football guy in charge of football. We actually had two of them. Holmgren and Banner. Think what you might about either of them, they were both football guys. But, as usual, neither one got a chance to dig in and get anything done.

You can argue the whys and why nots of those two guys and their subsequent firings until you're blue in the face and the problem remains, we do not have a football guy in charge of football.



Let Haslem and Scheiner focus on business & marketing. I too would take Bernie in a heart beat to oversee the football side of the Browns. Let the GM acquire talent according to the HC's needs and let the HC coach and the players play.


It seems some fans, especially younger fans, think Kosar's slurry speech is caused by drinking and therefor look at him like a drunken has-been. Using internet searches I think one would have a hard time coming up multiple instances of drinking being an issue. His slurred speech has developed from the lingering effects of many concussions suffered when he played. If you can watch the two TV shows he is on regularly you'd see he always slurs his speech. It's a bit of a stretch to think he's on TV twice a week discussing the Browns while being drunk every time.

He is also on the Board of Regents at The University of Miami. Probably not a place they look to fill positions with someone who is always drunk with slurring speech.

I could care less if many of his business ventures have failed. Nobody is talking about having Bernie run the Browns business side. Only the football side of the team.

I could care less if he's been out of football for 20 years. He is an offensive genius to this day. However, I'm not talking about Bernie coaching in any capacity. I'm talking about having a guy running the football operations who loves the city, loves the team and knows what a winning organization feels like and how it's set up from the top to the bottom.

Nobody currently on this team has any of that experience/knowledge.


BTTB, I'd join a crusade to make this happen. To put Bernie in charge of the Football Side of the Browns. I think he is highly qualified to help stop this 16 year slide of heart breaking, never changing bad football.

I'm not ashamed of being a Browns fan. Not anymore than I could be ashamed of my brother, daughter, mom or dad. It's family. We fans are all part of the Browns family. But, my God!, look how bad we are every-single-year -since-1999!!!

Every year it's the exact same suck-age for the exact same reasons using the exact same fixes and getting the exact same results, that being, the exact same suck-age. How is this even possible?

I feel so bad for the many, many good and talented players we've had here overe the years who have given their hearts to this team only to be put in a less-than best position to succeed. Players who have given their entire NFL football dream to this team only to have it end in a miserable failure, much of it to no fault of their own.

Some way, some how, some time, this team needs to focus on football at the expense of all else.

its sad that every year we have a thread about bernie taking over or some college coach with roots in ohio.

every. single. year.

yup. I love Bernie, but some idols are better left on the shelf. Lets let his legacy be what it is.

wow. not that i disagree but for some unknown reason people hate the guy.....

I'm glad you came out of the closet. Big weight off your chest?

I'd be good with Mangini in that position. As a HC I liked half of him. The other half I hated. But he does have the experience and knowledge of a winning culture/organization and if he oversees football operations the same way he Head-coached then I could see a GM and HC working together for the betterment of the team.

The only thing I'd be concerned about with him is, can he refrain from micro-managing the HC?

Good post. However, the two people you mentioned are NOT football people. Holmgren was just after the $$ and would make a good coach, just not a GM or FO guy. Banner was and is a bean-counter, but wanted to be a football guy. That was the problem, and cost him his job.

I wouldn't want Bernie running the draft but I think he would do a good job at hiring the right people to run this team on the football side, IE: The GM and HC.

j/c:

Bernie Kosar, Director of Responsibility & Accountability.

There. Done.

When you think about it, it would make sense for Jimmy to hire BK. Every Owner/Pres. needs a "otherside" view to keep things from getting complacent. Be the best hire made by him since he bought the team. Nothing else has worked so why not? He could learn alot from Bernie

I’m a bit surprised by what I’ve read on this thread. How do I respond without ticking you guys off? I don’t want to call out, challenge, hijack, or suggest that guys who I respect are naïve, but…

Is Bernie stupid? I would say absolutely not! I believe he is exactly the opposite. I am sure of it. Probably the sharpest guy in his era, who played during that time frame. Does he have some serious issues, demons he battles every day? I would say yes. No question.

If Bernie really wanted Haslam to hire him as a GM would he have taken the approach he did with Mary Kay?

Come on guys.

Bernie’s intention? To me it is clear – to really piss off and take a shot at Haslam, Farmer, and Pettine. And he did a great job.

When Bernie reads the board and has to accept that the cult of continuity still actually has a pulse, I suspect it makes his head explode. Clearly IMO, Bernie sees that where we are at is the Browns are on life support and if something drastic isn’t done, and isn’t done quickly, it’s going to take a decade to repair the devastation. Once again -- my opinion.

If there was ever a job for Bernie it would be the one that is in line with ideas expressed by a number of dawgs on the board. “Assistant” (watch dog) to the GM. Perfect position. When Farmer goes to draft a fifth round wide receiver in the second round, Bernie is in the corner of the room saying “what the *&^% are you thinking? I know what an NFL receiver is and he’s not it!” or something to that effect. Of course, that scenario would only be possible if Haslam actually keeps Farmer (which he might).

Do Haslam, Business Boy, Farmer, and Pettine want to bring in somebody who immediately becomes the smartest guy in the room, and has the ego, and stature, to command it? Bernie knows the answer to that. He’s not kidding himself. He’s trying to wake the few remaining out there, the continuity cult, that this is not fixable with the people who are in place. He knows the NFL, he knows football, he knows the Browns.

Kosar yes, Grossi, give me a break....

Which is why Haslam should hire him

Yeah, but he doesn't have the stones to hire him, It would offend Farmer...

It is what it is...I just don't know what to say anymore

Bernie knows the Browns will not hire him for anything. He's made the remark on TV, "How is it that I have not been introduced to Johnny Manziel?" I think last week he made the comment he was never introduced to Tim Couch either.

Now Bernie can walk right up to and talk to anyone he wants. But to be introduced by the team gives him credence to the player. Otherwise he's just some chump who used to play. (Which is pretty much how the team responds to him).

The team did employ him in '09 to aid in the film room. Mangini was impressed with him in that regard but like Butch Davis before him he ignored the help as did Butch ignore Ron Wolfe.

I believe you're right. His goal, knowing they won't allow him to actually help in any capacity, is to bring to light that the real problem is at the top. The Browns do not have the correct hierarchy in place. He's said repeatedly that you can't blame the coaches or the players, he keeps saying the system is the problem and that starts at the top.

If he can get fans and media to focus on the top then maybe the public knowledge of that would force some changes in the way the hierarchy is set up and the type of people it is comprised of.

He's talked enough now that he's gotten some attention in the media. Now, if he gets more detailed, explains what he would do if given the chance then maybe that will gain some focus as well.

Too bad he has no credibility.

Nah... nobody wants an old NFL QB that knew how to pick apart NFL defenses and call his own plays.

Nah... nobody wants an old pro bowl NFL QB who's loyalty has always been to the Brown's from day one of his football life.

Nah.. Nobody wants an old NFL QB that knew how to deal with the NFL commish and played him like a fiddle so he'd be drafted by the Brown's.

Nah... Sorry Bernie this owner and the other owner that came before him just don't want a smart football savvy beloved, and loyal Brown such as you that could possibly prove them all wrong. That would be too much for any egomaniac to bare.

Maybe Jimmy needs to hear the truth.

To you.

I think that's all Bernie can do. Deliver the truth. I hope he doesn't give up on it.