DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Should the Browns take Bernie Kosar up on his offer to clean up their mess?

Except they didn't hire him.

That's my bad. I should included his playoff numbers.

I never try to misinform, I legitimately don't see anything that qualifies Kosar to have any official job in the league.

So that would make this statement false as well.....



I mean you can't work for someone who never hired you, right?

He's said repeatedly it's not the coaches or the player's fault.

Why haven't you been hired since you think your God's gift to everything football related?

This is a ridiculous statement meant to make me look foolish and take the attention away from the fact that Bernie Kosar has never done anything in the NFL besides play and that no team will hire him (for some reason).

I am a guy on a message board. I have never claimed to be hireable by an NFL team (or any other company for that matter). I just give my thoughts on subjects pertaining to the Cleveland Browns and other fun football stuff. Bernie Kosar played in the NFL. It wouldn't make sense for me to have been hired by an NFL team (although I think I have about the same chance as Kosar at this point).

Why can't Bernie Kosar just be a player that you look back fondly on? I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm saying he's woefully unqualified to do any job within the structure of an NFL team.

Obviously Bernie Kosar is a hero to some on here and it is hard to hear have a hero criticized. I am trying to be as fair as possible.

I never said it wasn't him? What I've been saying all day is that we could do worse. In fact, we are at this point, DOING WORSE!

I do believe that Bernie puts some off with the slurred speech pattern. I am not sure myself how to take it. Again, I don't know the man personally. Maybe if I sat down and spoke with him, I'd see what others see. Maybe I'd pass on him as well.

But, from the outside looking in, he's got a pretty darn good football mind and he's assessed the situation so precisely that I think he could pull of fixing what ails this team.

Anyone will tell you, the first step to recovery is to realize you have a problem. The second step is figuring out how to fix it.

I do think he's smart enough to not make bone headed moves in the draft. THAT right there is a big upside.

But in the end, we are debating something that doesn't matter. Haslam isn't going to hire him.

I don't think he should be team president or GM or anything like that, but I think a role in the organization would work. The guy knows football.

Spoiler alert: It won't happen, because no GM wants him there. Not because he's a bad guy or anything, but it's just not a good idea to have a guy that beloved which can cause division. When the media and fans turn against a guy, it's not long until they're gone. We've seen it happen year in and year out. Fans have turned on Farmer, and it's pretty obvious his days are numbered.

I don't really know the extent of Bernie's personal life, but if there are still issues, I don't think he's really fit to be any kind of high ranking exec.

It works with Elway. He's not the GM, and he's not the president, but he does have a ton of pull. He leans on his GM and scouting staff to bring in good players.

We need to be able to do that. We also need a coach who can not have our defense last in the league, and not give up 150 yards on the ground a game.

None of that really says Bernie. I think he's an excellent football mind, and I wish behind the scenes, the people running the team would give him a call and pick his brain, but they just don't.

I just really hope this time around the team can actually get the right coach, and not just pick a GM from the team that wins the super bowl. The next best guy might actually be from a team that isn't a playoff team. Who you pick to run this team shouldn't be decided on the team he's coming from's record. They need someone to come in there and blow them away, and they have really hindered that process because of the constant turnover the last 10 years.

while it is fun to talk about one thing eo is right about is that it will not happen. some of you are taking it way to serious. jmo

The "it could be worse" argument is not a good one. Because yes, it could, in fact, be worse. And settling for someone/something because the alternative "could be worse," just seems very short-sighted.

"I married this crack head, could be worse, I could have married the crack head with AIDS."



Best point I've seen on this thread so far. And with that, and because my feelings are known, I won't comment in this thread again.

Bernie had some job offers after he was done playing. At the time he chose to spend time at home with his wife and kids and turned them down. As it turns out he was trying to keep his family together and gave up what he really wanted for the sake of his family. It didn't work out but you have to respect the guy for trying.

One last thing before I don't comment again (I didn't see this comment before I posted).

Elway is literally the GM of the Broncos.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/John-Elway/37e10403-2561-4e20-8e5e-bf841f14cf89

Once again a subject of this matter will draw many different views opinions & speculation..

One thing I know I don't know is... Has Bernie ever attempted to get a job with another Org ?

If the answer is no..Than would it be safe to think it's normal for no Organizations to show interest in him if he's not looking ?

John Elway played for Denver... Besides the Arena League Steakhouses and car dealerships He ends up as executive vice president of football operations of the Broncos..

Not the Eagles Bears or the Bengals.. He ends up with the team he played for.. He even admitted he didn't want to be the HC or GM... But Denver put him in a position that is working for both Elway and the Broncos..

Couldn't the above be a complimentary situation for the Browns and Bernie ? The answer we don't know.

What I do know is people talking about Manning coming here and wow how good he's going to be.. Really ? Doesn't have any FO experience either.

Got to admit people.. The experienced and non experienced people haven't worked yet..

Having someone who actually gives a Damn and cares about this Org may be a New and exciting way to approach all the failures and negativity that has been associated with the Browns..

The biggest bitch is having people come in here that don't know the history of the Browns and the fierce rivalry against the Steelers..

Now we have someone that knows whose interested in getting all this back... And it seems that he is being judged on everything bad..

Why is it so hard to look at it, as a good possibility ?
I have no idea what he is capable of..But I do know for myself it's a interesting thought.

Finding that Diamond in the rough..Yep it's going to be tough !

The rivalry and knowing the rivalry isn't the main problem. It's not like we play great against everyone else and bad in our division. We're bad everywhere.

The week to week grind is an issue with this team. I think they need an ass kicker. I'm kind of sick of seeing training camp being treated like summer vacation instead of work. I get that you can't run Bear Bryant's Junction Boys summer camp back in the day, but why do we hear about other teams, most notaby the Steelers, being a lot more physical in their camp.

It just seems like mistakes and ignorance are tolerated in Berea. Pettine did a nice job sending Gilbert and Manziel home after off the field stupidty last year, but what about on the field mitakes? Our linebackers constantly miss assignments and overrun plays yet there is no correction.

I'm tired of the players running the show. I honestly don't care if a guy comes in there and starts upsetting players. At least you'll know what players you need to get rid of. Then maybe new players drafted into that kind of program will understand that consistency is the only model that needs to be followed.

As far as I know, he has never applied for a job in the NFL outside of Cleveland.

I don't think he yearns for a paycheck from just any team. I don't even know if he cares about the money at all. He is just so damn heartbroken, as we all are, and is so tired of seeing his beloved team struggle season after season while making the same mistakes by every regime.

As he says, we've been talking about these same exact problems every year for 16 years. How is that even possible?

he worked with the Bears for a bit a few ears ago but it wasn't an official position.

I'm not sure Bernie could do the job of turning us around, but Haslam would score a ton of points if he had the staff reporting to Bernie for final decisions/direction instead of himself. Will never happen, but just saying the 'old fans' would like it a lot.

I seriously don't see Bernie ever being a part of anything here again. Too much baggage, or perceived baggage anyway.

Everyone knows it won't happen.. it's not a new newsflash..

Well when you put it like that LOL

Seriously, while it couldn't be worse, it could also be better.

You know, if Haslam had a set of stones, he could bring him in as a sounding board.. No title needed. Just someone who clearly has the Browns best interest at heart and who clearly knows a lot about the NFL and Football in general.

Someone to act as a sounding board. A resource when needed.

Isn't Jim Brown some sort of assistant to Haslam? Not to mention it wouldn't surprise me he isn't already doing that. Farmer is his #1 football guy. If Haslam is questioning Farmers ability, he might not want it known he is seeking counsel from some outside source as it relates to Ray. That wouldn't help anything to let it be known he his reviewing his GMs performance with people outside the team.

I am not saying he is, I don't know, but I do think Haslam is a man of action. I don't think the guy is simply sitting in his office flailing his arms in the air wondering what he should do next. It makes no sense to me to think that Haslam isn't doing anything to help come to a decision on what is the best course of action.

Yes, I believe Jim Brown is indeed acting in that capacity.. Seems to be anyway.

It's funny Peen, I was going to say the same thing about maybe Haslam is having conversations with Kosar.. But it seemed so far fetched that I thought,,, oh no, I'm not going to get beat on for suggesting something like that LOL

You can take the heat, but I do wonder if there is any way that could be happening?

And if it is, would Bernie have popped off the way he did the other day? I'd like to think not. But then, who knows.

IIRC, Jim Brown's role is as a sort of liason in player relations. At the very least, Kosar could fill an equal type role as the go-between for the business and football ops departments. (At least it would keep Scheiner out of the film room.)

Bernie Kosar, Ombudsman

I don't get it, what's the big deal about Scheiner in the film room?

If I had his job, I'd want to know as much as I could about the entire operation. That doesn't mean I'd interfere. But if I'm the president of a company, I'm going to know just about every job. Not that I can DO every job, but to at least know as much as I can about it.

Think Undercover Boss as a for instance. How many times does the boss go and visit a location of the company undercover and come away with knowledge about how things operate that he/she can do something about making it better.

People that sit on high and never budge are foolish. If you want to know what's going on, you gotta look for yourself and ask questions when you don't understand.

For Schiener that could be understanding the Grounds crew or the guys picking talent and all points in between.

I agree Daman....people worry too much about Scheiner. The guy isn't making the football decisions. I have no problem with the guy being involved with the team.

I think Scheiner in the film room is heavy-handed, intrusive, and disrespectful; micro-managing at its finest. Every time we read about the dysfunction in Browns' management it involves some individual not "staying in his lane", and that's what I'd call Finance guy inserting himself into a coaches film session.

If Scheiner was giving us the winning edge, maybe he gets to be a sidecar. But nope.
Weed him out. And, no, Bernie should not. Just wrong.

Can you prove that he didn't just sit there and observe? Of course you can't.. so until you can, all this is people looking for reasons to dislike the guy.

I heard that you were in the draft room when we picked Johnny Manziel and YOU were the one that fought for that pick!

Soon it will be picked up by the wire services and before long, Dawgtalkers poster "Dave" will be the butt of all the Browns "factory of Sadness" jokes. He'll be tagged as the man behind the Browns failures since 1999.

See how easy it is to make stuff up!

Scheiner is President of the Cleveland Browns, it is his job to oversee everything, and that includes getting to know what happens in film study if he chooses, watching the laundry guys folds towels, or study the way the office staff drinks water.

When you're the Pres, your expected to get to know everyone and everything that happens.

I kind of resent that - feel free to attack the source (LaCanfora), but I didn't make anything up.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jaso...aslams-meddling

Excerpt from article:

The tension between the front office and coaching staff is palpable around the team facility, sources said, with friction growing between Farmer and rookie head coach Mike Pettine throughout the 2014 season. It became clear that the front office wanted Manziel -- the owner's boy -- playing sooner and put pressure on the staff to make the change from Brian Hoyer.

Alec Scheiner, the team president who grew in power and influence a year ago after Banner and Lombardi were shown the door after just one season together, has become a divisive figure in the organization as well, gaining an increasing voice in personnel matters, well beyond just analytics. At 6 a.m. every Monday, Pettine is joined by Farmer and Scheiner to watch film, with the division between ownership and day-to-day coaching decisions becoming increasingly blurred.

"Jimmy is way too hands on," said one team source. "He's like Jerry Jones, only without the football knowledge. There's tension between Alec and Pettine. Everybody sees that. Alec is involved in everything; it's too much for him. There are no divisions. The guys on the business side want to run football operations. The GM wants to coach the team and have input on play calling. Jimmy calls the shots, and everyone is afraid of him with that quick trigger finger. If you stand up to Jimmy, he's done with you. Jimmy's own worst enemy is Jimmy."

"It's a mess," another team source said. "Everyone is trying to do everyone else's job. It's crazy."

This is a concern...


Alec Scheiner reportedly meddling in Browns trade rumors


NOVEMBER 3,2015

link

According to a source, the Browns had talks with the Denver Broncos early in the season after Denver lost left tackle Ryan Clady to injury in the preseason. The Broncos were willing to part with their first-round pick in 2016, but the Browns also asked for second-year linebacker Shaq Barrett, and that apparently killed the deal.
Other reports and rumblings seem to confirm that the Browns are asking for a first-round pick and then some for Thomas.

Per Tony Grossi, the Browns are looking to trade players for draft picks. Team president Alec Scheiner — who is in charge of business operations, not football ops — has reportedly been a leading voice in this strategy.

A league source confirmed the team has actively engaged in discussions to acquire “assets” – draft picks — by trading players no longer in the team’s future plans. The source said the person pushing this strategy is President Alec Scheiner, who appears to have gained inroads in football operations.

As General Manager Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine stumble through individually trying seasons, Scheiner has become the loudest voice in the ear of owner Jimmy Haslam, said the source.
This is not the first time that Scheiner has been reported to have pull with Haslam. A story by CBS Sports’ Jason La Canfora — from February of this year — portrays Scheiner as getting increasingly involved with the football side of things. Haslam is compared unfavorably to Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, and Browns headquarters are painted as a disorganized mess.

Alec Scheiner, the team president who grew in power and influence a year ago after Banner and Lombardi were shown the door after just one season together, has become a divisive figure in the organization as well, gaining an increasing voice in personnel matters, well beyond just analytics.

…

“Jimmy is way too hands on,” said one team source. “He’s like Jerry Jones, only without the football knowledge. There’s tension between Alec and [head coach Mike] Pettine. Everybody sees that. Alec is involved in everything; it’s too much for him. There are no divisions. The guys on the business side want to run football operations. The GM wants to coach the team and have input on play calling. Jimmy calls the shots, and everyone is afraid of him with that quick trigger finger. If you stand up to Jimmy, he’s done with you. Jimmy’s own worst enemy is Jimmy.”

“It’s a mess,” another team source said. “Everyone is trying to do everyone else’s job. It’s crazy.”
After that story broke in February, Scheiner denied that he was seeking more involvement in the Browns’ football operations. Haslam echoed those sentiments, saying that Scheiner ran the business side and that the team’s on- and off-field branches were getting along in perfect harmony.

From Nate Ulrich’s story for the Akron Beacon Journal:

“No, I like my role,” Scheiner said Tuesday in an interview with beat writers at team headquarters. “I’ve got enough on my plate. I really like my role.”

“Alec is in charge of the business side of the franchise,” Haslam said. “I think he’s one of the top guys in pro sports. We feel very fortunate to have him on our side. Also he’s in charge of our community efforts. That’s his main job with us. But as part of my learning curve — and I do this in our regular business — a lot of the things we do rather than have two smart people in the room, we’ll have four or five smart people in the room when we go to make decisions and set strategy.

“Alec and [executive vice president/general counsel Sashi Brown] participate in that. They’ll quickly say they’re not football guys, but they’ve been in the league 10 or 12 years at different franchises. They’ve seen what those franchises do, good and bad, and they’re very good, smart, strategic thinkers who I’m proud to have on our team and who add value. The business and football side get along well here despite what’s been depicted.”
Some nine months after La Canfora’s report of Scheiner being a divisive figure in Berea, it seems that little has changed. There may exist a universe in which the Browns brass actually do get along. There may exist a universe in which the Browns invest in the right draft picks. There may exist a universe in which the Browns spend their cap room wisely and make smart decisions. I’m just not sure it’s this one.

You made it sound like fact.. Laconfora doesn't know either.. He may well be making it up or exaggerating it out a need to get a story.. They do do that you know.\
By the way, who are HIS Sources? I'm wondering if it was the cry baby Shanahan?

Did you notice that when I said it was easy to make stuff up, I put one of these at the end which as you know means I'm joking.

Management doesn't call the plays. The Brown's coaches are constantly going away from what is working. Or implementing a game plan that is not playing to our strengths and skill sets. But yeah I hear you the FO isn't drafting good or acquiring what we need from players. It's really hard to polish a turd.

J/C ......

It is reported that Scheiner has been the leading voice in trading away players for assets ...... yet we did none of this.

The team had talks .... and nothing came of them. Does anyone really think that, if Scheiner was the driving voice behind this strategy, that he would be concerned about whether we gave up a 3rd, 4th, or 5th round pick, if the team got back significant assets in a trade? (and the reported 1st and 2nd round picks we were to receive are significant assets, even if later in the rounds)

I would think that, if Scheiner were in control of all aspects of the team, as seems implied, if not stated, then he would have made that reported trade for Thomas.However, the trade did not take place. neither did any other trades.

That, alone, makes me doubt some of what has been reported. If Scheiner has the owner's ear, and he wanted these trades made ...... and the owner agreed with him ..... then the trades would have been made. Period. However, they weren't.

If Pettine isn't playing Manziel out of spite then he's biting off his nose.

Give the owner and his boy what they want. Everybody but you, Michael, want to see the kid on the field. It would take an espn talent meeting, or brian billick, to come up with any reason (propaganda) why McCown would be starting.

If you are the Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns, and your team has spun full speed into a whirlwind pit of quicksand, you need help from others to pull you out. No time to be acting like a child.

Maybe Jimmy and Business Boy would back off if you gave them their way, and if you can coach, you can actually show us.


Time to amp it up Pet

Funny

The more I think of Bernie and the Browns, the more ideas I get on how I would use him if I was the owner. Bernie could be a good answer for a number of things that are missing right now.

It seems like the Pure Football isn't really being handled very well these days.

Acorns that fall from the Brown, Walsh, and Parcell's tree tend to eat Pet, Flip, and O'Neill up. They know how to win. Pet is starting to look like he is from the Rex tree.

That isn't good.

The whole premise of Kosar wanting to be involved is his strong belief that it is the dysfunction in Browns' management that is the only possible explanation for the perpetual losing since 1999. Last year we had LaCanfora reporting that Scheiner was straying from the business side to the football operations. This year we had reports from Grossi and Ulrich that Scheiner is expanding his power base to include football ops. That's the problem - non football people making football decisions. When Bernie talks about wanting to change the culture, he's talking about the front office much more so than the players. Players come and go, the culture comes from the top. We need an offset to Scheiner on the football side to oversee football ops - the GM and the HC - and to block overly ambitious ad salesmen from interfering with our football decisions. Consensus doesn't work; we need a "the buck stops here" football guy running our football operations. Haslam needs to get his head out of his ass and fix this asap.