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Lol. When does it get to the point where you have too many new guys? We still have a draft to go.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Yeah and it's not like a draft brings in too many new guys...
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Legend
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I'm hoping they use some of those picks (3rd, (2) 4ths, (2) 5ths) to try and leverage themselves back into the 2nd round. IMO, we don't need more bodies, but we can always use more earlier round quality players.
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Legend
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Lol. When does it get to the point where you have too many new guys? We still have a draft to go. It's time to move up. That is Depos plan.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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According to your article that had real insight about the Browns..........the analytics guys aren't a part of the draft.
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Legend
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According to your article that had real insight about the Browns..........the analytics guys aren't a part of the draft. Let's stick to the topic. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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We've probably passed that point of 'enough'. With the new players/coaches/systems, it's going to take some time for everyone to settle in...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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According to your article that had real insight about the Browns..........the analytics guys aren't a part of the draft. I never wrote a article about that...what are you talking about?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'm hoping they use some of those picks (3rd, (2) 4ths, (2) 5ths) to try and leverage themselves back into the 2nd round. IMO, we don't need more bodies, but we can always use more earlier round quality players. More quality bodies...
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According to your article that had real insight about the Browns..........the analytics guys aren't a part of the draft. Let's stick to the topic. Kinda radical based on our past history... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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Lol. When does it get to the point where you have too many new guys? We still have a draft to go. It's time to move up. That is Depos plan. Depodesta, chief strategy officer. I don't understand how anyone can look at what the Browns have done the last 2, or 2 and a half years, and say they've been following any unchanging "plan", if you see a plan, please explain. Yesterday I was thinking, Browns, following the current plan since March of 2019. No worries. How long can they keep this team together.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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When yo have a solid base.... with strong leaders.... there's a lot of turn over on every team... but good teams have a good core that lasts for awhile.... if kitchens is the right coach I'm hoping we have our core for years to come.... truly this is year two of a rebuild...
<><
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Don't be shocked if, a year from now, we are wishing we hadn't fired Williams. Just saying.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Don't be shocked if, a year from now, we are wishing we hadn't fired Williams. Just saying. Really? Our defense was so-so last year. We were 30th in total defense last year. (25th against the pass and 28th against the pass) We were 21st in scoring defense. We were excellent at taking the ball away, and I do think that was a function of scheme, emphasis, and talent. This was the one area where Williams's defense did excel. We allowed 4.7 yards/rush, which was so-so .... although our 7.0 yards/pass attempt was near the best in the league. Our pass rush was not effective, despite having some quality pieces. We got gashed way too often in the run and short passing game. I hope for a big time step forward this year. There is a lot of room for improvement.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Please,
When we have a top 10 Offense and top 10 Defense. Until then, keep building, finding players and destroy everyone in our path!!
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Just trying to provide balance.
I'm just saying stuff happens. I think we are a solid bet to win the North, though.
Last edited by lampdogg; 03/13/19 11:17 PM.
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Legend
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Our defense couldn't be much worse than it was last year couldmit? We were pathetic last year.... I liked Williams attitude but his dengue se sucked the last two years
<><
#gmstrong
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Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Legend
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It was less than 11 months ago.... think about this.... less than 11 months ago.. that hapless, loveable loser Cleveland Browns were officially 1-31... only had about 2 o3 players that people really considered any good and had just left everybody in shock by defying the odds by not taking Barkley or Darnold or Bradley Chubb in some combination. A lot of people were laughing and saying we would now suck for 5 more years...
Less than 11 months later and we are the favorite to win the North and one of the top favorites to get to the super bowl... and our primary concern is how can we keep all this talent in a few years when contracts come due...
Less than 11 months.
I think we are done with big moves, might be a couple more strategic depth signings... but let's get on with the draft.
yebat' Putin
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I really enjoyed reading this.
Lending us a sense of perspective.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Legend
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It was less than 11 months ago.... think about this.... less than 11 months ago.. that hapless, loveable loser Cleveland Browns were officially 1-31... only had about 2 o3 players that people really considered any good and had just left everybody in shock by defying the odds by not taking Barkley or Darnold or Bradley Chubb in some combination. A lot of people were laughing and saying we would now suck for 5 more years...
Less than 11 months later and we are the favorite to win the North and one of the top favorites to get to the super bowl... and our primary concern is how can we keep all this talent in a few years when contracts come due...
Less than 11 months.
I think we are done with big moves, might be a couple more strategic depth signings... but let's get on with the draft. I agree. Maybe a few like yesterdays signing, but now it's about the draft. I was disappointed the pick swap didn't happen with the Giants. I was wanting that 4th rounder. My thinking was to turn that in to a 3rd rounder. With all the moves I am not sure how many picks we have. We gave up our 1st, so I guess it's 9? We don't need to draft 9 players. Maybe turn those 9 picks in to 5-6 drafted players. Dorsey is pretty darn good at finding middle round gems. Lets hope he keeps it up and plucks another on draft day.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I think we're about at the threshold now. I don't want to become the Redskins who just bring in talent and don't have any team concepts. We need to use FA to supplement what we've drafted IMO
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Let's build a good, strong, young, core, that we can stitch pieces around as need be. Much like Pittsburgh and NE have been doing for years. Next man up.
When the core vets are solid and understand the system, it's easy to plug in a new guy and have them pick it up quickly, while the others cover for their learning curve.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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D4L,
Thank you for putting words to something that I was feeling when the mayhem was going down.
I'm fine with Dorsey calling it a day on FA and looking towards the draft. I agree with others that the day of trade downs seems to be over, and we need to start trading up for specific pieces. With OBJ and then talk of Earl Thomas, I was starting to get a Wash Redskins feeling (spending on all the high-priced FA's and not having anything to show for it after).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Legend
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Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I don't think that Dorsey has any more bigtime "splash" coming this off-season .... though if there is an upper level guy left unsigned later into free agency, who he can sign at a reduced rate, then I could see him making that move. I definitely think that we're going to look for a CB or 2 .... but probably situational types, rather than starters.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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"according to ESPN Cleveland’s Tony Grossi."
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Well I understand that's how things are now a days. If you don't like the message just shoot the messenger.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Well I understand that's how things are now a days. If you don't like the message just shoot the messenger. Grossi is not a reliable source of any information. If he had said Paul DePodesta was making all the picks I would say the same thing.
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Legend
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I don't want to derail the thread so I'll send you a PM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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When is enough enough?
About when you start thinking of sabotaging future drafts, or putting yourself in salary cap hell, in order to win now.
I realize this is the start of our window, but at the same time, build something sustainable. Be more like the Patriots and less like the Raiders.
Dorsey has done a great job btw. Future drafts (meaning 2020 and beyond) are still intact, cap situation is still fine. As long as that remains the case, can you really have too many good players?
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Yeah, the cap/future drafts are key. We're going to have to wisely replace some players while simultaneously maintaining the quality of roster we've built.
For example: in two years we may have to cut/trade Jarvis after we draft a WR next year (or whatever)
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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We haven't even played one season yet and your NEGATIVE outlook is how long can we keep them together?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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"according to ESPN Cleveland’s Tony Grossi." I have posted this several times, but some keep ignoring it: Mayfield pick was Dorsey's pick. For once, Haslam didn't parade in friends to watch last year's draft. It was a scout's draft. The analytics team had limited influence. Dorsey was skeptical of their helpfulness when he first got the job. He told an associate that he didn't need "f---ing nerds" to tell him how to evaluate players. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25797...history-collideThat is from Seth Wickersham, who had inside access to what the Browns were doing.
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I knew there were other sources just wasn't sure where to find them. There are several other obvious factors to look at that people are ignoring but I won't get into that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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"according to ESPN Cleveland’s Tony Grossi."
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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Yes it is. So is the story Vers posted that shows that analytics had very little to do with the 2018 draft.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Old news beats fake news. From Ballpeen
It's time to move up. That is Depos plan.
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Legend
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Is it really old news since it's from the last draft we had? I mean what else do you gauge it on? Depo was in the draft room in 2016 and 2017. He wasn't in 2018. Kizer vs Mayfield. Depo wasn't in Kansas City when Dorsey built the Chiefs. Or did they secretly Skype a lot? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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