DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum The last dance on ESPN tonight with Michael Jordan

Anyone else going to watch tonight?

Looks really good and I am looking forward to sitting down and watching.

First two episodes were good, as expected. I’m glad that some younger fans will watch and appreciate Jordan ... a lot of them just hear it from older people, but now they can see it

That was the first time I turned my TV on in a long time. Like you, I thought both episodes were pretty good.

People that didn't get to see Jordan play never really understand how dominant he was at a time where it was alot harder to be dominant.

j/c...

I thought, obviously, Jerry Krause comes off as the total bad guy. Not sure the whole backstory of his mindset, but I can’t fathom a GM being allowed to break up a coach/star/team like that

j/c...

I want the soundtrack to Last Dance.

After Jordan beat my favorite Charles Barkley led Phoenix suns in the finals, I despised him for a very long time. Seeing all these memories reminds me of how great of a ball player he was. Down right dominant.

Great first two episodes.

Ha. I missed that. Good catch.

All I see is us missing the playoffs by one game.

j/c...

Pretty funny story...

I forgot that Tito was the manager of the Barons then. I took my kids to games, rooting for the Lookouts when MJ was serving his NBA suspension.


MJ wasn't a good baseball player.


Dang, I forgot Tito was the manager for Birmingham then . I went to 25 or more Lookouts games a year back then.

AA baseball is good baseball. Those are kids trying to follow the dream and good enough to get there, and that is pretty darn good, but still like college football players who have to do what the coach says.

By AAA you know who is going up at some point and who is there to provide good coemption for the guys going up.

It's a thin line between the guys who get a shot and those who hold on to provide good coemption.

Suspension?

There's a conspiracy theory that Jordan was suspended for gambling or whatever, but the league didn't want the bad PR from it. Jordan served his suspension by pretending to want to be a baseball player. Some say his dad was murdered because of Jordan's gambling...

I probably got some of that wrong, but that's what I remember from it, and didn't feel like digging into the minutia again.

I remember that conspiracy theory as well... imagine how many championships they could have won if Jordon doesn't leave for two years and Phil doesn't get fired...

J/c

I enjoyed the stuff on Rodman last night .. truly an eccentric, but a heck of a warrior on the boards and on defense. He was integral to that team

Cavs had a great OB play to take the lead with 3 seconds left, but leaving Ehlo on MJ was not wise

j/c

I'm from Toledo OH. right on the Ohio/Michigan line. I worked in Detroit for 15 years. All through the Bad Boy era. I only became a Cavs fan after the 2004 Pistons championship. All I gotta say is...


Deeeeetroit Baaaasketbaaallll!

I want them to touch on his gambling woes; I doubt they do that.

Two things that I laughed at last night:

- That security guard dude who beat MJ in quarters and then SHRUGGED. Such a boss move. I died.

- Seinfeld’s cameo was Gold, Jerry, Gold.

Are you serious? I really like the show but I think most of the music has been subpar so far.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Dead serious. The soundtrack has been amazing.

LL Cool J
Black Sheep
Nas
A Tribe Called Quest
Prince
Kool Moe Dee
Rakim

I'm really looking forward to the next two episodes.

Some of my take aways are,
1. No player in NBA history understood his role more than Rodman, he didn't even try to score, just rebound and play D.
2. This story just confirms what I always suspected, Jordan's teammates didn't like him very much, they respect him and all, but he is a jerk to them.
3. It's great to walk down memory lane with this doc, I was in my teens during this era and it was awesome basketball. It also shows me, many guys that dominate today would not be half as good back then. Obviously, LeBron would be good, but Harden, Curry and some others would really struggle with how physical the game was back then.
4. I get they all hate Krauss, but it's not fair that he's not here to defend himself. But I guess when Jordan has final cut approval, you get what you get.

One of my takeaways related to this is how much at peace Jordan seems to be with this very thing. He wasn't looking for friends then or now. He doesn't appear to have a nostalgic bone in his body. You would think him and Scottie would be great friends. Or that he'd at least keep in touch with old teammates that he accomplished so much with. But everything I've read and heard is he's a bit of a hermit who talks to those guys if he happens to run into them. It's like he has no friends, and he's fine with that. Obviously, I know that's not true. He just doesn't seem to be friends with NBA types.

J/c

MJ is the ultimate competitor ... good, bad, or indifferent, he will do anything to win. That coupled with his ability made him the best ever.

I’m not surprised to see some of these stories come out ... everyone knew he had this side to him. I’m a little more surprised at the whole Pippen story. I kinda knew about it but not to this extent

Let me know when they change 3 or 4 rules because of him then he may take Wilt’s place as the greatest ever ...

They said Wilt couldn’t pass ... he led the league in assists the next year ... other than Barkley at 6’4 leading the league in rebounding nothing in the history of the NBA comes close that accomplishment ... think about that .... he led the league in assists as a low post Center ...

I think MJ is the greatest player by far. The only player I think you can even argue as better is Kareem. I don't think Lebron can catch MJ at this point.

In terms of the best ever, i have to say MJ is the best basketball player who’s ever lived.

I only remember him from the 90s ... so I’ve watched a lot of his games from the 80s/early 90s ... and he is incredible. I think a lot OT fans remember his will to win (which set him apart), but he was also on another level athletically, defensively, slashing, first step, explosion, etc.

Then he developed a jump shot and more intelligence. There was a stretch from like 89-93 when he was basically a basketball savant in all regards ... and then he won 3 more to boot

The thing that always amazed me about Jordan, and this is why I contend he's the best ever, is his ability to take over games deep in the fourth quarter as if he was playing with college players. Singular highlights do not do Jordan justice. You can find equally good singular highlights from a number of players. It was the flipping of the switch when they needed it the most. It was not needing a game winning shot because he just scored 15 of the last 20 points because his team needed that to win and because he could.

Having said that I think his singular greatest highlight was against the Nets. Straight up in the air against two leaping defenders, turns 45 degrees sideways midair and goes between them, turns back 45 degrees while still in midair, finishes with reverse layup. Never seen anything like that.

U guys have a good thread going and i don’t want to ruin it ... I’ll just say someday were gonna have to talk about Kareem being the 2nd best ever ...

Enjoy gents ...

I can get on board with Kareem being #2. Very strong arguments for that.

Yeah, eras and positions definitely make it tough to compare. And your point about “memories fading” is valid .. which also shows why MJ is the greatest IMO .. it’s widely thought to be the case today, 22 years later.

Basketball is strange .. eras shift positional importance (ex: Centers are obsolete and post up game is non existent in today’s game). But I’m confident, whether it would be 1920 or 2020 MJ would be the best player on the court.

Don’t know I can say the same about a center in today’s game.

Another thing, not only does Jordan's teammates seem to not like him, they seem to be afraid of him. Anytime someone ask them about him, they give the same canned answer, "He's the greatest player blah, blah, blah." I think they realize two things:

1. Jordan still has a lot of clout in the league, not just as the part owner of the Hornets, but also a lot of clout with Nike. If you get on his bad side, he will torpedo you with Nike.
2. Jordan is very vindictive. When people say things he doesn't like, he totally takes it personal. Look at Barkley, he said Jordan was the GOAT, but then he said Jordan was a bad GM (when he was with the Bobcats). And Barkley said him and Jordan haven't spoken in years because of his comments.

Watching his former teammates is like watching that movie The Manchurian Candidate, they all say the same stuff about him, it's like they've been brainwashed.

However, I loved the part where they explained how the triangle offense worked, I thought that was awesome.