DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Woods

On paper, I agree. For the D, much will depend on the team chemistry, and you don't find that on paper.

I don't anticipate problems. I just offer that as a cautionary note in that it still needs to work on the field.

Talent > Scheme..........by a long shot. If our players come close to living up to expectations, it will take a monstrous Huesque failure by the coaching staff to not be successful.

Joe Woods is a good DC. He knows what he's doing. He got a lot out of our D last year and don't forget all the injuries he was dealing with. Guys in and out of the lineup on a weekly basis. With the talent we have and given time to play together our D should be very good.

No question in theory.. But if you are given a college level team and expect them to complete with the Pros, it's just not going to happen.

I think Joe did a great job with what he had to work with. Well that and all the injuries and Covid etc. Assuming we stay somewhat healthy, This year, there is just no excuse..

I think one thing is for sure, and it Narely works well for OHIO.
It seems real hard to avoid reading the press clippings.

Browns 23-19, just 4 games over 500 since Hue left.

The Ravens are 35-13 in the full 3 years.

(Now! If we want to say Kitchens'... if we want to say they could have been 9-7 instead of 6-10, that would still only be 26-16 since the mid season change to whatever coach in 2018. (And that's With Baker, and Myles, and Ward.) (OBJ, and Landry Too, largely).

And I have to try and ignore Jim Rome putting the Browns in the AFC champ game?, GMAXB! They have to make the playoffs first.
They have to beat the Texans before;... in their Home Opener,
(Do teams that lose to the Texans in their home opener make the playoffs?) NO!
One game at a time, (I know they open at KC)

A Long road ahead, to be reading? Press clippings

Yet we were all witnesses.

Hemilked a lot out of the D last year in spite of the bumps like injuries, COVID, social practices, and Sandejo to name a few. What you and Homewood are saying, indirectly, is if we need to slap a patch on a problem this season, well, we got us some better patches. Feeling good going into this meat grinder compared to Huey and the last few years.

I agree Bone I too have been bitten by the vibe the feeling coming from Berea it is our turn and it's going to be better then we could ever imagine.

It has been my long standing dream to see my Brown's lift the Lombardi and finally I believe like never before that dream is about to be realized. With the depth and commitment across the board to winning as a team to face embrace and overcome adversity this team stands on the edge of greatness and we get to come along for the ride.

What more is there to say? What more could any fan ask for this team looks like no other Browns team I have ever been witness too. They are deep and they are oh so good/great. It starts where it ended we have some unfinished business in KC and I can think of no better way to kick off our run then where it ended.

One of the Questions for the Browns, well a couple,
1, Just who are the top 5 Db's, maybe 6 Dbs' in the dime, or big nickel,
Who are the top 5 Db's on the Browns Roster.

2. What is the total number of games, wherein 3 or more of those top 5 Db's, will be out of the line up for the same Game.

Zero
Zero- 0.5
Zero- 0.75
Zero- 0.85
Or The **@*#*#* World's gonna end!

Johnny Johnson was a big addition in FA. A highly-rated safety who can be a leader back there.

It's going to be interesting to see what teams try to do to exploit our weaknesses when I roll that around in my head a bit I just can't find any. This team is deep and fast and built to compliment each phase of the game.

We now have the team speed to deal with players like Kelce and Hunt, and Jackson as well. They are likely to try to run on us and they may have some measure of success but when you can't throw the ball and our offense is taking apart you're defense it becomes difficult or even impossible to keep up.

This team is unbelievable IMO. This is the kind of build that creates dynasties. It's not hype either.

I too would give every move made an A+.

Also, Stefanski helped the players reach another level mentally last season. We were resilient, disciplined, prepared and confident to a degree I hadn't seen since the 80s'. Putting that together with the physical talents on this team. It should be even better this year. Wow!

Guard you captured it perfectly, well said.

What if, the reason they went 6-10, in 2019, were the 12 games Greedy actually played in. He had 2 Pbu's in 2 years, 35% of games.

I don't know what the Browns are going to do at corner without Mitchell, maybe one of these UDFA's will work out.

Since the days of Marty....

I check those a hundred times a year sometimes. This is not about knowing who was signed, this is a difference in the interpretation of how effective things go because of those signings.

I refuse to buy in to the group think. Rather, I'm pre-disposed, personality wise, that the more group think I hear reinforced, the LESS LIKELY I AM TO BELIEVE IT!
because I've been burned too many times before.

There has to be another way to look at things, Unpopular or not! This Browns Defense!
has a potential,
to take a major, step, back, this year.
1. Most people are underplaying how well it played last year, in,, especially in regards to Run Defense.

Richardson Vernon, claibourne, Sendejo, Mitchell, Thomas, Kevin Johnson, (I'm forgetting a Db), are not returning to the defense.
It's always been my opinion players who leave a team hurt it more than players who join a team help it, if they are even 35/65 comparable, at least in the short run.
I remember every off season add from JJ3 to Square, Troy Hill may have been first, but the team, media machine, may be overselling some of their greatness.
... Maybe Walker was earlier,
How could they have properly addressed the CB position, if they haven't taken the field, and the whole D hasn't taken the field.
( It's a very hard lesson to learn, that the trade up for JOK was kind of a trap, like an impulse buy at the checkout counter,) <- it's 50/50 whether that proves right or wrong over the next several.
No matter who they suit up, nobody is going to stop Qb's from finding slot Wr's with linebackers, consistently over time.
The Browns only think they are better against running Qb's, like Josh Allen in 2019, today than then.

Every player that was added is at LEAST AS GOOD in run defense as the departed player whose shoes he is filling.

Yes, all of this is conjecture - no matter which side you fall on - but, on paper, we should be IMMENSELY improved in the passing game, and with the likes of Clowney, we will be better in the run game, too. There are few DE's better than him in the run game. Period. Vernon is not and was not. Adrian Clayborn definitely was not. Sendejo was an unguided missile; he was a liability in the run game at least as often as he showed up and made a play... the rest were marginal role players and didn't factor into the run defense much at all, and ALL of them (the DBs) have been improved upon significantly with their replacements.

You are correct that QB's will still get theirs; there is no doubt to that. What is different now is that we will stop them with increased frequency; it won't be such a gimme, especially in long yardage situations. We will win much more of those than we used to, which was almost none of them. Troy Hill is one of the best, if not THE best, slot corners in the league. He will do wonders for us and is a major upgrade over last year. JOK, who you love to hate, will be a LB that can do what none of ours have been able to do for years... cover RBs & TEs over the middle. Hell, he has the speed and quicks to cover a slot WR, too. So, our ability to cover the middle of the field, from a pure talent viewpoint, is DRAMATICALLY improved as is out ability on the perimeter. Yes, these guys still need to get on the field and prove aby doing it, but what we're working with this year versus last year is night and day. It literally isn't even a fair comparison at all.... and I am not afraid of being the negative Nancy naysayer that shoots down hype.

IF these guys stay healthy, this defense is about as complete as any you will have ever seen. It is actually just STUPID how stacked it is.
If/when we take injuries, we actually have enough depth to still be rolling out starter-caliber talent most everywhere. Losing a Greedy & Delpit won't sink us this year.

LOL! THROW LONG must be posting from an insane asylum.

Wow. This year should be better defensively. No lead was safe last year with Sandejo especially leading group that couldn't kill drives and get itself off the field. I think this group will be better by being stronger up the middle. One of us will have his judgment shot down.

Hope we tear this up.

Group think = Red is red and blue is blue... but Throw sees it for it's true color purple.

If the other guys we brought in to fill shoes at DT pan out and we are able to get good, quick, disciplined pressure on a fairly consistent basis with just our front four, this defense is going to destroy offenses.

Seriously, other teams will be sick of us by mid-season.


Myles Garrett probably had a dozen "Almost" Sacks last year. Those sacks where he was just a heartbeat or two too slow in getting to the QB because we couldn't cover anything and the opposing QB almost always had at least one read that was open on every play.
We have a DEEP secondary that can - on paper - shut that down and give Myles at least another 2 to 3 seconds, which is almost an eternity for him. Additionally, with Clowney on the other side and the guys we have inside, they can't consistently double and triple him, now. OC's are going to be eating antacids and pulling their hair out trying to figure out how to slow our rush. They'll try RPO, play action, runs. They'll try to spread us out and use screens.
We have the speed to cover all of that. We have guys smart enough and savvy enough to recognize all of that. We also have an offense that can score like a video game that will force them to pass to try to keep up... and that's when we smother and kill them.

We will still have a few games where we struggle, but those will be two types of teams:

Strong defenses that can slow our offense to their speed, and teams with BIG lines that can man-handle our guys.
There aren't too many of either one on our schedule.

I don't know about 2-3 seconds, but it should be long enough to turn a good amount of "almosts" in to sacks.

That or the QB is going to throw it anyway and the DB is going to break up the pass or in some cases, pick it off. That or the QB is going to throw more or less in to no mans land. Not so much a grounding of the ball, simply a pass that falls incomplete.

They want to spread the Browns defense out?

with 13 guys on the field that can pursue?

Did I say 14? It will seem like 15.

Offensive Tackles' film study.
"Who's this?"
"Clowney".
"What happened to Myles?"
Next play.
"Who's this?"
"Takk!"
Next play.
"Who's this?
"Myles"
" I thought I was playing Takk!"
"This isn't going to go well for you."

This is another reason I'm so excited by Marvin Wilson. If he's playing up to his potential he will absolutely demand a double team! Then all of our other front-seven players get fed.

I am not so sure he needs to be double teamed on passing plays.

On running plays he should, which no doubt will help to keep our undersized backers clean.

I think Wilson makes the team for that reason.

Takki or Wilson won't be on the team at the start of the season.

that's my hot take

A general question about Marvin Wilson. Apparently there is a lot of potential there, and it seems like there was a crap-ton of interest in him as a UDFA. Why would a team that was really interested in him not use a 6th or 7th on him? Waiting for him to hit UDFA is a gamble - not only does he have to make it through without getting picked, then you have to outbid other teams for him.

This kind of thing as happened before. It's almost like teams agree to let the guy go undrafted.

I believe Wilson is a dominant 1-Tech. Able to defend the run and pressure the QB in passing situations. If offenses choose to double team Myles or Clowney on passing downs Wilson is capable of winning many one-on-one blocks he would face. His upper body power is considerable, his hand usage is advanced and his leg drive is at minimum, average to slightly above average.

I posted this before but maybe you didn't see it.



Wilson brings a physicality to our Dline that Pittsburgh or Baltimore have routinely had but we did not.

Kind of puts me in mind of Ted Washington.

1. That guy's analysis is hilarious.

2. I'm super excited about this guy, now.

Voch Lombardi knows how to turn a phrase. Like, "fat boy effort" it's both colorful and insightful. I really like how he breaks down defensive players. He can be very intricate. Especially for defenders, he's my favorite youtube analyst.

Plays too high,stops his feet,and he needs a yellow triangle tacked to his butt that reads "slow moving vehicle"
A good college player,that's his ceiling.

Really in-depth analysis on your part. If what you say were true, these are correctable issues with coaching. Excluding your incisive evaluation of his speed which was measured at 5.09 in the 40 for a guy over 300 lbs.

I'm going to trust my eyes. Feel free to trust your own.