DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Talent and Team

Beyond roster, coaching staff, or whatever metric has led up to the brink of judgment, this is clear bottom line: You are your record.

I have faith..

I have to believe they'll work as a team. By the end of the season you can look at every social media of every player and you can tell they bought in.


They're hungry. #wewantmore is the hashtag and the motto for this year. Stefanski has done a great job of keeping them disciplined... one of the least penalized teams in the league.

When you have people believing in the process. You have people willing to work as a team.

I realize that there is personnel turnover every year and the teams is different as a result of it. But there has been a foundation set from 2020 that gives this organization the chance to have sustained success.

A commitment to work. A focus on 1-0 every week. Players' belief in their individual talent and the talent of their teammates. Refusing to carry the baggage of a legacy of failure. Resilience. Being accountable. Trusting the coaching. Focus and discipline to execute like a professional football team.

The leaders on this team will teach these things to the newcomers. Some of the free-agent vets already have these attributes. JJIII and Walker particularly seem ready to lead on what will be an overhauled defense.

I think one of the biggest factors will be Stefanski and the coaching staff - and I regard them as highly as the roster. They seem like they are on the same page - they are grounded - they hold players accountable whether they be superstars or starters or backups - they are prepared and make in game adjustments.

So, yes, I agree they will need to play and come together as a cohesive team ... and I believe they will.

They were also able to identify the type of players they needed to get in order to fully implement their systems and find those players both in FA's and the draft. The roster this year will be better suited to employ the things they have in mind. More from a defensive position. It was a two phase process. Last year focused on the O and this year the D.

There is every reason for optimism.

Tough, Smart, Accountable.

They built a team last year and got the players to buy in and take ownership of it. This vision is shared from the top down, and the bottom up. This, combined with the type of player they are bringing in, will go a LONG WAY toward making the melting pot of 2021 work for us. Because of their personality types, the new guys can come right in and see how it all works and how it all fits together. The guys that were here last year will see to that.

There's always the chance of a bad apple here or there that could spoil the lot, but I honestly think (hope) we're doing a pretty good job of avoiding that. We're still taking risks on players with sketchy pasts, but I think we're taking much more educated risks that have a far lower risk point and a far higher reward point.

I'm excited to see how it all starts to come together.

Baker, Chubb, Myles. There is a foundation any team would love to have. I am thrilled with Baker he will win a super bowl for us.

I am convinced that last year was no fluke. 2007 was a fluke, and had a "seat-of-the-pants' vibe from the start. So missing the tournament at 10-6 was probably the right and just outcome .

For all the in-game excitement this team provided, what excited me the most about the team was the conspicuous absence of any off-field drama or controversy. No police blotter reports. No locker room conflicts. and most importantly: no front office power struggles or other typical Berea dysfunction.

I watched those games with a growing confidence as the year progressed, and was certain that CLE would advance past the Wild Card round. It was because of a combination of seeing inspired team play on the field, and solid, professional leadership on the sidelines and in the offices. I've spent years seeing what professional NFL Football looks like, and I finally saw it with this team last year.

You all know me. I've been "The Culture Guy" ever since the old 'official' board. I now see the foundation of the first durable Browns culture since the Marty years. Before that, it was Paul Brown.

Marty was pride and passion. Those teams played street ball all the way to AFC title games. Paul's teams were superpower dominance through precision, discipline and superior infrastructure.

This bunch looks to be the perfect blend of both. Our coaching staff is layin' it down in areas of preparation, teaching and getting the boys on the field at a competitive level. The FO is working very well at getting the players the coaches want/need. The players we already have bonded like Seal Team members last year, and already have a locker room that was forged through a truly remarkable season.

Competent, professional coaches set the benchmarks for achievement and professionalism. Team leaders set the style and persona of the locker room family.

I fully expect this system to be self-correcting, should a bad apple appear. This entire organization worked too hard to get where they are to let one or two 'bad influences' derail the process. Not when they are *this* close to establishing something lasting and special.

New players will get it.

I think we're gonna be ok. Seeing the Cleveland Browns look like a premier NFL outfit takes some getting used to. We're all still on a learning curve. It's really only been since maybe Nov-Dec of last year that my sphincter began to relax- but I think we're truly on our way this time. It looks, sounds smells and feels very different.

Fun thread.
Can't wait to read others' takes.

I think we finally have the 4 critical components in place.

OWNERSHIP

Jimmy is finally past having his new toy and is allowing his employees do their job. I won't get in to all of the details because there is no way to know exactly how much he got involved in some of the decisions, but it seems pretty clear that for now, his hired hands have the bulk of the decision making. I will point out 2 others. Dee Haslam has had a big impact on her husband. She seems to be a calming influence. Things have changed since she became a focal point in ownership.

Another is JW Johnson. I can't point to anything specific, but things have changed since he has stepped in to the Presidents role. I think both he and Dee are a voice of reason in the Haslam clan. We seem to have a well defined ownership group.

FRONT OFFICE

The team of Berry and DePodesta are gold. I thank my lucky stars that Jimmy has listened to DePodesta and kept him on board. I credit Depo more than anyone for the turn around in culture in the FO group, and many ways the team turn around. Just watching building the Browns gives me a good feeling that the entire office staff is focused on the job at hand. I feel that Berry is as sold a GM as we could ever hope to have. Not only is he a solid evaluator of talent, unlike Holmgren and Dorsey before him, he isn't a egocentric individual. He and Depo are like a perfect fit glove and hand.

COACHING

What can you say. Stefanski was the perfect hire. He relates well with the players and commands their respect. He has put together a solid staff of assistant coaches. I am confident that some years down the road people will be talking about the Stefanski coaching tree.

PLAYERS

The players are kind of a by product of the above. They buy in and do a excellent job of carrying the message to their play on the field. They don't make a lot of stupid mistakes and seem to root for each other. They are focused on the task at hand. Win the next game. Forget about stats. Forget about glory. Think about team and winning games.

It's all looking good.

I agree with everything you said except I really believe Haslams' problem wasn't the new toy thing, it was finding the right talent to put in place.. He has finally succeeded.

Probably true. I only made the point because there is a lot of speculation that he is the one who selected Manziel. I don't know how involved he was in those decisions or wasn't.

I'm less keyed on the JM pick at #22 than the dysfunction Jimmy created by inserting himself (with good intentions) into the front office dynamics. Chud firing was understandable. Banner was recommended and his firing was understandable. Pettine was a forced 5th or 6th choice pick who wasn't horrible but then the dysfunction hit. Hue was figured to be a good hire when he was announced. Haslam actually gave him too much time. Dorsey was a good hire but shot himself with Freddy. . . I can view most of this as an owner just trying to find the right formula. The front office interference and dysfunction is all on Jimmy.

just my 2 cents. . . . sorry if tangential to topic. I thought Clem had a well rounded and accurate post on the 4 components and how they appear to align.

Not at all. All of us can probably point to something we felt that Jimmy may have had a hand in.

I guess the bottom line is that doesn't appear to be the case any longer.

In the end, he is the owner, so he makes all the big decisions in a round about way. He now has some levels of competence around him to help guide those decisions.

I suppose all owners go through that to some degree.

That well-rounded essay deserves proper attribution.
It was in fact Ballpeen who wrote that tidy li'l joint. A post that also met my approval, as well.

Thank you for the correction !! Statement holds.

I see your point, I remember hearing those things back then. like you , I have no idea how true they are. Not sure we'll ever know

GC.
Too Reliant on 6th-7th round players,
Felton,
Donovan Peoples-Jones,
Anthony Bryant TE, in offensive skilled position groups,
(Mathew Dayes, Damion Ratley),

This system chases ghost positions, so
in the long run;
Relying on 6th rounders is going to bite this team,
Talent and Team.

Which 6th rounder are we relying on exactly?
A forth string WR?
Here’s our starters….
Baker… 1st round
Chubb… 2nd round
LT … 1st round
RT… Free Agent(stud)
RG… FA (stud)
LG… 2nd round
C… FA (stud)
TE… 1st rounder and a FA starter
WR… Odell (1st round FA), Landry… FA (stud), Higgins…5th rounder that’s more than earned his draft status, Peoples-Jones…. 6th rounder 4th option WR that’s 22 years old, has length, and runs a 4.4, Schwartz… 3rd round, 5th option, 20 year old WR, with world class speed that played at a college with crap QBs, I’ll hold my judgement until I see what he can bring to the table.

I challenge you TL to find a deeper WR roster in the NFL. Find me another team’s 4th and 5th option at WR you would trade ours for right now.
I’ll wait.

We rely on players. What round they are selected isn't a concern unless those players are no good.

You don't even know if Felton will make the team, though he probably will. Jones has played well. I dispute how much we really rely on Ratley. I doubt he makes the team this year.

I am not sure who Anthony Bryant is....if you mean Harrison Bryant, I think he played well for a rookie and will be a very good player.

Sorry TL, unless a team makes a bunch of trades, they only get one 1st rounder and so on. I am not sure what your beef is...do you?

Nobody is relying on any of them to be anything more than role players. They all fit a role in the scheme and they've all earned their spots at the bottom of the roster by beating out the other guys that used to be on the bottom of the roster, and they will likely soon be replaced by some other guys on the bottom of the roster unless they develop a bit and displace someone in the middle of the roster.

You keep looking at molehills with magnifying glasses.

Exactly.

If 4th/ 5th/ 6th rounders weren't important to teams, they wouldn't even draft that deep.

Hold a 3 round draft, but then he would be complaining because we rely on free agents.

GC. Talent and Team.
I just remember the rapport Baker seemed to have with Derrick Willies in what seems like 4 years ago now, 2019 I think, pre-season.
at 6'2 210, if Willis could make the 2021 Browns and we'd see the chemistry they'd have together for a full season, well that would solve a lot of problems wouldn't it.

He could take Schwartz's spot and that would allow them to keep Hodge.
Keep all players except if anyone were injured actually,
Felton, D'Ernest, the Fullback,
all 4 tight ends, or 5
OBJ, DPJ, Higgins and Landry, Hunt, Chubb, Willies, and Hodge.

I don't know why Willies Couldn't get on the team he seemed to only make plays, and D'Ernest is/was the best returner,
ald DPJ would do, is too often take a fair catch inside the 10 with open field to run.
All I'm saying is IF Willies could get on the team we already know he can hang on to a catch and Baker makes him look like a world beater.

Willies has 3 catches for 61 yards in his Browns career ........ is that a "world beater"? If so, it appears to me that the world has gotten an awful lot easier to beat than I recall.

At least lament Damian Ratley, who had 23 catches for 344 yards and a TD while a member of the team. At least he produced something here.

Also, and what no one is considering at this early date, is that we may go with 5 WR and 4 RB, with Felton being able to swing between the 2 roles. WRs could be Jarvis, OBJ, Higgins, DPJ, and Schwartz ...... and then Chubb, Hunt, and Johnson, with Felton as the swing/6th WR/4th RB.

I would consider that a possibility, depending on how things shake out.

That wouldn't be horrible at all..

What about Natson? Does he fit in on special teams or something... Or is he a goner

Unless the ST coach wants him kept as a returner, Natson is probably on the outside looking in. He brings speed to the table, but Schwartz brings more of it.

I didn't forget, fact first thing I thought about, was the "that 70's show charcter, but had to check.

Demetric Felton was the major Offensive weapon of UCLA,
Just for fun

, Fenton "was" the character (from That 70's show), name that popped in my head from the jewelry counter argument with fez.
copy and paste wiki.
Fenton was a jewelry store employee where Eric goes to buy Donna's engagement ring. He appears in several later episodes and becomes the landlord for Fez and Kelso's (later Fez and Jackie's) apartment in seasons 7 and 8.
Portrayed by: Jim Rash
Season(s): 5, 6, 7, 8
"Community" star Jim Rash portrayed Fenton, an employee at a jewelry store.

The Browns Cornerback room is not deep enough.

Our success this season will be gauged by how well we implement OBJ into our offense. If Baker goes looking for him every play we are screwed. If Baker is just able to go through his progressions and find the open player we are good. OBJ is the X factor. If we don't key on him every play, we have a very dynamic offense.

We signed Hodge, so there's that.

I’m still waiting on you to find me another team’s 5th and 6th option WRs you’d trade ours for.

Maybe, maybe not.

I have yet to see a team full of 1st and 2nd rounders on the 2nd and 3rd teams at all positions.

It is what it is.

the chemistry of OBJ is certainly a big factor

we'd better get a new WR to fix that, then.

It's hard to factor the "injury bug".

Odds are in favor you are going to experience some of that. The part you can't factor is how seriously it is going to hit and how deep it might go in to any position group. The timing it hits is also something you can't factor.

No doubt you don't want to lose any games where it can be claimed that injury played a big part, but it is better to have that happen against a non-division rival like the Lions than against the Ravens. Winning your division is the easiest, surest way to the playoffs. Then you don't have to worry about records, common opponents, and all that other stuff. At that point, all you are looking for is some home field games.

At that point, I don't even call that the icing. That is the ice cream on top.

I think the 3 biggest weaknesses are all of the unknown elements.

1. You have the unknowns of Greedy and Delpit. If they return to expected form, we're solid. If they have a significant drop-off from that, we're suddenly a lot thinner on the back end.

2. DT. We released Richardson and brought in two handfuls of unknowns. We gave up the bird in hand for the two in the bush and now we have to wait to see if we actually still have anything, much less if we've improved. If we didn't, then we are weak up the middle.

3. Linebackers. Walker should be plenty good, but everyone else is a crapshoot. Who ends up where and how much playing time they get, how they are used, etc.... it will all have a HUGE impact on the efficacy of this defense.


We're all super excited about the reasonably expected potential of this group, and for good reason. If these guys just keep doing what they have an established record of doing, we should be VERY GOOD. Like, Top 5 defense kinda good. However, as Dawgs know all too well, things happen. Things don't go the way we hoped. Man Plans and God Laughs. Any one of these groups faltering significantly quickly drops us to a middle of the pack defense that is trying to cover holes with schemes and alignments. If two groups falter, we're where we were last year. It's a pretty thin line when you stop to think about it.

I think that we know most of the team already:

QB: Baker and Keenam
RB: Chubb, Hunt, Felton, maybe one more
TE: Hooper, Njoku, Bryant, and maybe one more
OL: Wills, Conklin, Teller, Bitonio, Tretter, Harris, Hudson, and probably 2 or 3 more
WR: OBJ, Landry, Higgins, Peoples-Jones, Shwartz, and 1 more
FB: Janovich

K: Parkey
P: Gillan
LS: Hughlett

DE: Myles, Clowney, Takk, Gustin, and maybe Weaver
DT: Jackson, Billings, Togai, Elliot, and maybe Wilson
LB: Walker, JOK, Phillips, Fields, and 1 or 2 more
S: JJ III, Delpit, Harrison Jr, LeCounte III, and mnaybe Redwine
CB: Ward, Greedy, Newsome III, Hill, and 1 or 2 more

There are not a ton of spots up for grabs.

The Browns have never been a stretch the field deep passing offense not really a quick threat to score from multiple deep options on the same play.
I think we can see this theme continue in 2021 and it will be whatever obstacle that becomes,

It may be nothing, but the point is they are leaving it in place, have not yet removed it.

The important thing is that they know not to keep the pretenders.

I was just listening to Bill Belichic, some interview he said, "It's more important to know when to Cut!.. than being fast."

I think he's referring to pass route running, but I also think he could mean keeping or releasing players, wouldn't expect anything less from a Belichic quote than to make me think.

Had more of the interview been available, where the quote could be placed in to some sort of context, it probably wouldn't be hard to figure out.