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#1867606 06/15/21 10:12 AM
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Not much to talk about so I am going back to the well.

Of all the players on the roster Baker has been dissected the most.

I am not going to pull up stats. If you want that it is always available. Very easy to to look at his numbers.

Baker is starting his fourth season. He has a great supporting cast. We have the highest rated OL and running back duo. That should help any quarterback.

We have experience, depth, and talent at wide receiver and at tight end.

The Browns have spent this past season upgrading the defense. They have yet to play a game. However, they are also highly ranked even though they have not played.

I think we should expect that with the defensive upgrades that the offense will get more oppoutunities to score. More three and outs and more turnovers.

So, what remains for Baker to do?

In my eyes he has proven that he is a franchise quarterback. Last year we won a playoff game on the road.

Quarterback greatness is defined by playing great when it counts most. Baker took the Browns to playoffs. We had a winning season. The team is now considered to be a Super Bowl contender. Repeat that three times and then pinch yourself.

Baker is now an experienced player who should be in his prime.

It is now time to be big on the biggest stage.

Those moments that make you great. The Elway drive. I know that is a sacrilegious analogy. However, I wanted to drive in the point.

This year should be the year Baker puts all doubts to rest.

Stats are nice but winning is the ultimate measure. Win the biggest games with a great performance when counts the most.

"Pressure is a blessing" Billie Jean King once said.

No pressure Baker. You have wanted this moment all your life.

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I was thinking about this on my run yesterday. They’ve done a superb job of building up the rest of the team now, making it so that the QB doesn’t have to hero-ball to win games. We’ll probably win some sloppy games this year that we would have gotten trounced in years past.

That said, this team’s ultimate success has probably never depended more on Baker consistently showing up as the guy in the 2nd half of last season. Everything else is pretty much there.

The two things that run the greatest risk of derailing the team are a rash of key injuries and Baker falling apart for any real stretch of games. We know we’ll have some injuries, every team does, but we pray it doesn’t go over the depth threshold/ tipping point. And we know Baker will have some so-so or iffy games but we have to hope it’s not 2-3-4 games in a row. That is one of the key markers of elite QBs. They all have crap games on occasion, do they bounce back, is their default level significantly above mediocre such that they don’t have to “over-achieve” to have an excellent games? I’m a Baker supporter all the way but I’m not sure that question has been answered yet. We need an almost full season well above the midline.




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I agree with all of that. Hopefully if we build a 3 TD lead in the 3rd quarter of games this year, with our revamped defense, I won't be thinking, "We still need to score at least 2 more times".. because that's what I was thinking last year against TN and against Dallas.. and probably a couple others. and in most cases, I was right as we ended up needing to recover onside kicks to secure those games that we should have won with the back-ups on the field for the final few minutes.

As for Baker specifically, assuming he just plays the way he did last year, even without much improvement at all, he's a franchise QB and the only thing left for him to accomplish is he needs to close. As you said, he needs to notch a few of those career-defining moments and he has to do it in the biggest games.

He has a playoff win under his belt. Albeit, it was against a very depleted and vulnerable Steelers team. Then we lost to a KC team with Chad freaking Henne playing most of the second half.

Games like that, it's about finishing. If you finish and win, you get credit for overcoming a 19-3 halftime deficit. If you don't win, you get blamed for only scoring 3 points in the first 2 1/2 quarters.


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I think the way that Baker ended the year pretty much ended any of the "hot seat" conversations that were going on, so (for me) he really just needs to more or less pick up where he left off from last year, and just overall avoid yo-yo'ing between years over the course of the year.

I don't see the need to expect such drastic improvement as we've seen, but we do need to avoid drastic step backwards in play at the QB position.


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Expectations for Jarvis, put an end to the unsportsmanlike penalties.

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Is Jarvis in the title of the thread?

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Baker is in a great position because of the talent surrounding him and the scheme and adaptability of Stefanski's offense. Baker's floor is solid, and pretty high.

Do we need Baker to push the ceiling to new heights in order to compete for a championship? No, not at all, especially if what we saw in the second half of 2020 is indicative of his growth.

Mayfield became a good QB in 2020, some may say "very good", again, especially looking at the second half. He made great strides in working through progressions, being patient, not getting "happy feet" as soon as his primary read(s) were covered. I saw a QB capable of throwing to receivers one through four on the majority of his late-season dropbacks.

We don't need a QB that puts a team on his shoulders week after week, but we need one capable of that when the situation dictates. I'm not worried about Baker in that manner, he's proven that he is capable and willing.

Baker needs to become more consistent. He's 30th in the league in completion percentage, yet we've seen games where he completes 12, 15, even 20 throws in a row. I really hope that the chemistry with OBJ comes naturally and isn't forced (again). Psychologically, Baker needs to treat OBJ as "JAG" and just let the chemistry develop within the confines of solid offensive execution.

A few more game-winning drives and 4th Q comebacks will cement his confidence. He's got all the tools and everything needed "upstairs". Should be an exciting season -- and one that has Baker perfectly positioned to round out his perception at somewhere between "solid franchise QB" and "legend"... without feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders in order to do so. Seems like that would be any QBs dream scenario.

As a fan, I'll take great pride in riding shotgun with the dude who was told he couldn't do it his entire life. That story couldn't be any more "Cleveland".


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I think having expectations isn't something I fall into the trap of. To me that means you have your sights set on something happening. Expecting something to happen. I have hopes of things happening yet at the same time I don't expect it.

By looking at the second half of last season there's no reason not to hope things pick up where they left off. The offense was clicking on all cylinders. I think we have a HC and system in place that the players believe in and buy into. The talent is certainly there. I believe we have a FO that works with the HC in manner that they bring the talent into the system that best serves to fit what the coaching staff needs to execute their systems.

So for me the question isn't whether Baker will perform well. I think he's already shown he works well in the system that has been established. The continuity that has been established going into its second season should only bolster his performance.

The only question is what is Bakers ceiling? I have no clue how high that could go but by all accounts we're going to find out.


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KS made a clear point to Baker before last season. You have to protect the ball. Turnovers will not be tolerated.

Baker made the change and he cut way down on int's.

That was critical for his success going forward.

Completion % can be misleading to a degree. Yes, you would like 65%+. I don't get to hung up there because sometimes a good play is made when you throw it in the stands.

What is important is clutch play. Making big time NFL throws when games are on the line.

IMO Baker will get there. There is a fine line between getting that ball in there in tight coverage; and taking the check down or throwing it away.

To be great sometimes you have to make those throws.

Baker has the skills to make any throw. It is that split second decision that can make huge differences. You can have great numbers checking it down. But it takes a special talent to make those truly great throws.
I believe Baker is an emerging talent.

I am hoping this year he leads this team to greatness.

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Seems that we already talked about this in another thread.


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I'm hoping he sticks with the trajectory that was in place at the second half of last season, based upon building confidence, become more comfortable in the system, and realizing that he can trust his reads on not focus on the first read or a single player.

Looking back, this is what I drew from his time in Cleveland:

2018. Got off to a good start. Defenses didn't really know what to expect. Then he took a bit of a downturn playing against more stiff competition. Add to that the fact that he suffered from Haley Jackson squabbling, which bled into the game planning and playcalls. Dorsey cleans house. Kitchens comes in and simplifies the offense big time. Baker does better.

2019. Kitchens takes over as HC, but keeps playcalling. Can't find consistency between game planning and playcalling. That hurts Baker. Baker also begins to lock on to OBJ, which might be tied to the fact the playcalling didn't follow the game planning. More dysfunction. Baker regresses.

2020. Stefanski comes in and doesn't have a feel for Baker yet. COVID offseason doesn't help either. Baker still plays in 2019 mode, with some strides because Stefanski puts him in a more comfortable offense. Still has some confidence issues and locks in too early. The team keeps winning, however, and Baker builds confidence as Stefanski keeps figuring out how to build a sustainable offense that suits Baker. This happens continuously (outside of the Jets aberration). This is the trajectory I hope stays in place.

Baker suffered a lot from turnover and snowballing regression which led to confidence issues. I'm hoping that the current stability, supporting talent, and consistency in offense keeps him on the improvement path.


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I can't remember. Probably.

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j/c...


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I don't bet so I don't follow betting lines.

But that is kinda shocking. One would think Mahomes would be the favorite every year.

I actually believe Myles has a good chance. One because he will put the numbers and two because it has been a long time since a defensive player has won.

I could see Baker though. There are others as well.

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We keep talking about winning the Playoff Game on the road. My question is, did we win that game, or did the Steelers lose it ?? They seemed to come back well after unforced errors put them in the hole. Yes, I know the Defense looks good on paper, but will they play like an improved Defense against better competition this year. I just want to see more before I start harping about beating the Steelers and being Superbowl Bound.


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They had some unforced errors in that game, but I think a lot of the comeback had to do with our soft defense, not to mention the fact we were starting guys who might not even be in the NFL next year at DB.

I don't think there were many unforced errors on their part as far as our offense goes. Hunt simply dominated them on those two TD's and Landry did the same. Our OL was also abusing their pass rush and run support defense.

Whoever that backup OLB was for the Steelers had his lunch eaten by Teller on several pulls.


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How do Stefanski's expectations play into this, I mean if the offense struggles, or totally putters out,
A coach will have had a year to work with the same resources, the same major players.


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There was the first snap of the game, for sure. Otherwise, I think our D capitalized on their guys looking clunky after a week off. Steelers were the ones that decided that sitting Ben, Pouncey, etc was the right move.


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well, make no mistake.. when we face them for the first game in 2021, they will be wanting to make a statement, AND their defense won't likely be so decimated as it was in that game. It WILL be a different animal; that beatdown isn't likely to be happening, again.

I still think we win, but just noting that there were several anomalies at play in that game beyond just their offensive errors early on.


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For too long, when we would self destruct against the Steelers, no one derided their defense because they destroyed our offense.


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From what I gather about Stefanski.

He is very pragmatic.

He knows what he wants to see and how to prepare. He then judges the results and works to improve.

I don't think he changes. Win or lose he knows you can always play better.

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The big picture has been covered pretty well by other posters. Mayfield is an ascending talent, the Browns have plenty of offensive firepower. The team will benefit from continuity for the first time in a long time. Mayfield has the mindset and the talent to be great and will have the opportunity to progress toward that goal individually and within the team.

So...I have a couple of things I want to see Baker continue to improve. 1) Use more touch on the slants and other underneath passes. I think he can improve in this area. 2) Continue to be settled in the pocket under pressure.


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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
well, make no mistake.. when we face them for the first game in 2021, they will be wanting to make a statement, AND their defense won't likely be so decimated as it was in that game. It WILL be a different animal; that beatdown isn't likely to be happening, again.

I still think we win, but just noting that there were several anomalies at play in that game beyond just their offensive errors early on.


And those are the games you have to win in order to become a good-to-great team in the league. When the other team wants vengeance badly, but you beat them anyhow. It can really deflate the former team, too, as we all know from ample experience.


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The fruits of continuity is what I am most looking forward to seeing this year.

May we have a bountiful crop!


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Wait, do we have to sacrifice an animal now or something?


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Yes, but not until just before the brisket has to go in the smoker to be ready for the first kick-off.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Baker Mayfields best exhibited in game pump fake and the same for ball tucking/hiding skill on a play fake,

but moreso, the pump fake, were in 2018.

Baker Mayfield showed his best abilities to move a defense with the pump fake in 2018.

So I wonder where it went?


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I’m hoping to see the Qb that we saw the 2nd half of last year. That should be his floor at this point IMO. Limiting TO’s, keeping us in good situations, being accurate, and very importantly: continuing to improve under pressure.

I also think it’s important to see him improve WITH OBJ. That’s huge


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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j/c...

Its rather elementary my dear Watson.

Baker has finally a 2nd season in the same Offense, coaching staff and players.

Just look at Baker after half the season last year in the same offense with players.

TD: 11 INT: 1 %: 64 Yds: 2,049 W: 6 L: 2

And its only going to get better as they all understand the offense better and will make space for execution of plays!

And its not about just % in accuracy its where he puts the ball. More than any other QB he gets that ball right into the hands at the perfect spots so that the RB/WR/TE can continue without hesitation at all.


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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
The fruits of continuity is what I am most looking forward to seeing this year.

May we have a bountiful crop!


No way to put it any better than that... Exactly


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The Defense will be a work in progress until mid season. Too many new players.

Hopefully the offense will carry the load.


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Originally Posted By: ChargerDawg
The Defense will be a work in progress until mid season. Too many new players.

Hopefully the offense will carry the load.


If Myles Garrett is to be believed, don't be surprised to see it come together a LOT faster than that.


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Originally Posted By: ChargerDawg
The Defense will be a work in progress until mid season. Too many new players.

Hopefully the offense will carry the load.


With the intelligence the players they signed seem to possess, I don't see why they can't come out firing from the start. Getting players in the right position and getting the calls right is the hurdle, after that, it's the talent that makes it work. They brought in two players on the defense that excel in that area, Johnson and Walker. I tend to agree with Myles that it won't take long.

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j/c:



"That's my quarterback"


"We'll see how much Brat...errr..........Baker improves w/out Hue in his way."
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That's my quarterback man.

I am behind Baker all the way.

IMO he will be ready to bake the cake.

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Quote:
Expectations for Baker


Continue digesting the offensive playbook and I hope Bake can stay healthy.




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Mike Tannenbaum a former horrible GM who will never get that job again. Is now a clueless "analyist."

When asked about contract extensions for Lamar and Baker. Said "sign Lamar. Don't sign Baker. Watch and see and maybe sign him in two years."

He also said Baker's skills are "replaceable."

Lamar is a better runner. He is not a better quarterback.

Baker went to the Browns in 2018. The Browns record in 2017 was 0-16. Baker's Head coach in 2018 was Hue and the OC was Haley.

Then the head coach became Greg Williams OC was Freddy.
The record for 2018 7-8-1. Baker sets the NFL rookie record for TD's.

2019 Head coach Freddy and the OC Todd Monkin.
Record was 6-10.

What a way to start a career with a team. Going to a team that was winless. Then having 3 head coaches and three OC's. That alone could be a career killer.

So 2020 fourth head coach and OC. They win 12 games with a playoff win on the road against the Steelers.

And over the last nine games Baker played as well as any quarterback.

And this knucklehead thinks Baker is replaceable.

Just goes to show that incompetence can be anywhere.

This jerk can say anything now and not be accountable for a word. I hope his tape is kept and played back at the end of this year.

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Tannenbaum is an absolutely idiot. God awful GM - one of the worst of all time. The last person I would listen to for personnel advice.

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Another failed slappy from the Belicheck tree.


"We'll see how much Brat...errr..........Baker improves w/out Hue in his way."
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The biggest criticism I think comes from Shannon.

They had the ball to go and knot it all up in KC. And they did nothing. Just a sloppy 3 and out.

That's where the money is made. THat is the next step Baker needs to make.

I know he has the ability. He helped will the team back to a tie in the second Ravens game.

It's about putting it all together now. He has the skill. He has the intelligence and poise to be great. He just needs to tune up the timing belt so all cylinders fire in time.

That's what takes someone who is good to elite.

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