DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Texas Abortion Law attempt to end Roe

Easy. Just put up a sign, like this:

Well he has sure stopped quite a few murders now with this new law!!!

Explain that to the rape victims that become pregnant in Texas. You can't even bring yourself to man up and admit that what he said about rape was bat crap crazy. Take a seat.

Nope. He’s just made abortion 1000x more dangerous.

It was more than dangerous for the babies. It was murder!

Booohooo who’ll think of the poor unwanted cell clumps?

Go shed your crocodile tears elsewhere.

too late!

And once they're born you can vote even more Republicans in who advocate cutting every social program to help most of those babies who are born to drug addicts, the very poor and even the homeless.

You know, once they're born to hell with them, right? You're not pro life, you're pro birth. Once they're born you don't give a damn about them.

I'd actually argue that he didn't. This law empowers busybody Texans to sue, but only after the fact. It doesn't make it harder to get an abortion, just gives Karens a method to potentially extract damages from someone they've never met.

And Texas hates women.. Loves Guns, Doesn't care about Covid deaths (doesn't believe they are real)

Social programs do not work. Never have and never will. They just create a dependent society.

So just let these children do without after they're born.

Like I said, there isn't a pro life bone in your body. Only pro birth. Once they're born you don't give a damn.

So let me ask you - who quotes the bible in his signature - a homeless teenage woman is raped and impregnated. Let's presume abortion is illegal. Is your solution to say "Thanks for having the baby. Best of luck!"?

Fixed your 40¢ nonsense for you…



(Made by me, with love, for all you people that can’t understand basic biology.)

LOl...something tells me they wouldn't have a choice over whatever happened to their body's.

Adoption would be the best outcome. The child did nothing wrong and does not deserve to be punished. Maybe giving a child up to some loving parents that want a baby is the best outcome for all.

So legalizing murder is your answer???? If a baby is unwanted then do what is necessary before engaging in the act that produces babies. If you cannot take the proper precautions and have a baby. Then support your child or give it up for adoption. Murder is not the answer.

I don't disagree with that.

However, how about the medical bills, and who exactly is going to facilitate the adoptions? She is going to be in a very rough state, mentally, in that scenario. No affording grief counseling? Pregnancy, in and of itself, is immensely challenging, beyond my comprehension. I know that I saw my wife go through it twice. No support system? Just, hey, have a healthy baby, and then someone will take it from you and you can be on your way...

If you want to be a pro-life advocate - which I am for the most part - you have to realize how that ripples into other areas of social politics.

So when it is a clump of cells you are going to make the woman turn it into a baby. Now that it is baby and she has an emotional attachment you are going to it away.

Way to double down on the hatred of women.

jc

i love how adoption is the go to response on this issue. as if it isnt hard as hell to adopt, or the fact that our foster care system is a complete joke.

We need politicians to make adoption a lot easier and less expensive. I am sure both sides of the abortion argument can agree on that.

Ahhhh the adoption fallacy… I must be nice to just throw it out there then wash your hands of the entire situation like you’ve solved the problem.

Now here’s some numbers I found on a quick search. These are from 2018 so I added an article to give some updated info….

2018 Texas Foster Care Statistics

280,911
Reported Allegations of Child Abuse/Neglect

66,382
Confirmed Abuse/Neglect Cases

17,500
Total number of Texas Children in Foster Care

So here we are a few short years later… I’m sure things have gotten better, right?…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kxan.co...is-worsens/amp/

A catastrophe’: More than 200 kids sleeping in CPS offices as need for foster care intensifies

AUSTIN (KXAN) — More than 200 children slept in state offices for multiple nights in March of this year as the “capacity crisis” in the Texas foster care system continues to worsen.

According to data from the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, during February 2020 — before the coronavirus began to spread in Texas communities — 34 children spent two or more nights sleeping in DFPS offices. By March 2021, that number had increased by nearly seven times, with 237 kids sleeping in offices.

Scott Lundy, CEO of Arrow Child and Family Ministries, said he has worked in the child welfare system for three decades. He called 2020 the “most challenging year” of his career.

‘It’s a catastrophe’

In short, there aren’t enough beds to accommodate every child entering the foster care system, and Lundy said it’s reaching the level of a “catastrophe.”

“The capacity crisis that we have right now is the worst that I’ve ever seen,” Lundy said.

A spokesperson for DFPS said providers have been “profoundly affected by the pandemic and more recently by February’s winter storm.” They explained foster care providers have struggled to recruit and train foster families willing to open their homes, while residential treatment centers have faced similar struggles with retaining qualified staff.

BACKGROUND: Judge orders Texas to pay daily fines until foster care problems are fixed
According to state data, Texas gained 393 beds for children in Fiscal Year 2020 but lost 540 beds. So far in FY 2021, we’ve already lost 696 beds, while only gaining 112.

“DFPS is constantly working with providers to bring more capacity online, while prioritizing child safety over sheer numbers of beds,” the spokesperson said.

Lundy said, “It takes a long time to build capacity, but you can lose it overnight.”

He and his wife fostered and ultimately adopted three children himself.

“I can’t imagine my kids spending time in an office — sleeping there and eating there,” he said. “There’s no laundry facilities. They are eating out the whole time. There’s not a lot for them to do, and recreation, or things that, that would be normal for a child.”

Federal lawsuit

However, problems in the Texas foster care system began long before the pandemic. A decades-long federal lawsuit has drawn attention to stories of abuse, neglect and mounting caseload sizes.

In 2015, Judge Janis Jack ruled the Texas foster care system was broken and ordered the state to make changes, including around the clock supervision by adults who are awake for foster children in a group setting. Almost five years later, in 2019, it was found that DFPS had not implemented her orders. By September 2020, state officials were again warned that they could be held in contempt of court if reforms weren’t implemented.

Right now, the state is still making changes and dealing with the fallout from the lawsuit.

MORE: Fifth Circuit tells Texas to fix foster care system, removes other requirements
In fact, at the end of last year DFPS asked the legislature for $38 million to comply with the lawsuit. The Texas Health and Human Services Commission, which is also named in the lawsuit, requested $37 million to cover costs over the same period.

Debbie Sceroler, Senior Director for foster care and adoption at Bucker, said the pandemic couldn’t have come at a worse time, with the foster care system already in this “state of reform.”

She explained that legislation a few years back allowed Texas to transition Community Based Care model, where local communities organize to provide services rather than the traditional model run entirely by the state. Still, the new data shows reforms are slow-moving.

“We’ve always had more children coming into care, than we do families,” she said. “I think awareness is definitely the first thing we need.”

Buckner Children and Family Services recruits and licenses foster homes in Texas.

They’ve helped connect foster parents like Buck and Stephanie Baskin with kids in-need of a temporary home, — sometimes even just for a short time while a child’s case is reviewed, before the child is placed back with family or with adoptive parents.

“It is the hardest, best thing we’ve ever done,” Stephanie said, recalling the more than 15 foster children they’ve welcomed into their home in Mesquite over the last 11 years.

“You realize the need that’s there, and you just continue on,” Buck said. “They’ll be like, ‘Oh, y’all are so special. How do you do it?’ We are not special — we just jumped in and did it.”

Buckner also offer provide preventative services through their Family Hope Center, to help families stay together and avoid falling into the foster care system.

MORE: Nonprofit provides housing for foster kids sleeping in Texas CPS offices
At the end of April, after hearing about the increasing numbers of children staying in state offices, they launched a partnership with the state to provide a more home-like environment for more than 30 at-risk children across the state — opening up campus foster cottages in six different cities. Each home will house up to four children and are located in Dallas, Beaumont, Lubbock, Midland, and Mission in the Rio Grande Valley.

“So, basically we provide the facility and oversee the safety of the facility, and CPS resumes responsibility of the children that stay there. This provides them a more home-like environment,” she said, noting it’s a far better option than a state office.

“Food and activities and games and hygiene products and just the ability to be outdoors and be in a home until permanency can be found. This is a temporary solution. We know children will come and go.”

Legislative efforts at long-term solutions

Meanwhile, several efforts at the State Capitol are aimed at providing more long-term solutions and funding.

Kate Murphy, Senior Child Welfare Policy Associate with the group Texans Care for Children, said some of the most important legislative pushes are the ones that work to implement the Family First Prevention Services Act — federal legislation passed in 2018.

“It really shifted a lot of things for state child welfare system,” she explained. “It restructured how the feds are going to pay for foster care, and it opened up new funding for prevention services that can keep kids out of foster care in the first place.”

She explained that several pieces of the 2022-2023 state budget would allocate funding to things like those prevention services, as well as provider rates.

“We know that we need to support foster care providers right now, especially the ones that are doing life-saving work for kids and taking care of our kids. We want to make sure they have the resources to do that well,” Murphy said.

She also mentioned two bills other to watch with “really, really good stuff for kids” — SB 1896 and SB 1575 — both proposed by Senator Lois Kolkhorst.

Still, Murphy thinks Texas needs to have a long-term vision of how to take care of families, rather than focusing on “putting out this fire.” That will take “sustained interest” on behalf of lawmakers.

“We need them to remember that passing the law is just the beginning,” she said.

Who are the children sleeping in offices?

According to DFPS, it has proved more difficult to find placements for older teens who have complex behavioral or psychological needs, and therefore need specialized care.

The number of children without placements began to increase toward the end of 2020 and into 2021 (Graphic and data provided by the Department of Family and Protective Services)
Oftentimes, these children need care in a residential living or treatment facility, which Sceroler said have faced higher levels of scrutiny and increased costs in recent years. Buckner does not operate any of these types of facilities, but their leadership is aware that many are closing.

Lundy echoed that fact, saying some of these closures — and part of the capacity crisis, in general — was due to increased regulation and oversight following the federal lawsuit.

“How do we support these mission-driven organizations at taking care of kids better, and better, and better,” he said. “Instead of just fining them?”

Arrow Child and Family Ministries instead operates a program called Treatment Foster Care, in order to get “highly traumatized, very complex youth” out of residential centers and psych hospitals and into homes. To be a part of the program, one parent must become a member of their clinical team, undergo extensive training and even agree to stay home with the kids involved.

Still, he said they’ve seen the success rate nearly double for children in the program — 73% compared to less than 30% for similar children in a residential facility or other institutionalized environment.

“There’s not a kid’s issue and not a child’s trauma that can’t be healed better in a family,” he said.

Do you mean Medicare, Social Security don't work? Are you saying that feeding homeless doesn't work.. How about helping homeless vets... Yeah, none of that work.

I guess you the roads you drive on don't work.. the Bridges don't work..

She could keep the child if she wants no one is forcing her to give it up. No hatred of women just the child did nothing wrong either.

Ahhhh the old ‘keep the unwanted baby’ scenario. Nothing like being raise by someone that doesn’t want you/can’t afford you/can’t provide for you emotionally.

Again. Murder is your alternative?

So she keeps the child but can't feed him/her. She can't get a job because she can't afford childcare. But god forbid we offer free child care. How dare you even suggest that you socialist. And don't have programs to provide food for the hungry mother and child, you are making them dependent on the system you communist.

Just a couple non-emotional comments on the topic.

I'm generally very much a 'we need as little govt in our lives as possible' kind of person... but in situations like this, where things just aren't getting done and citizens (children, no less) are suffering, I think it's government's (local, state, federal, in that order) responsibility/mandate to acknowledge the situation and step in to correct it. With the foster and adoption system being such a dumpster fire for so long, I think it makes perfect sense for government to come in and take an even more hands-on approach to making sure these programs are doing what they're supposed to be doing.

IMO (and to a couple other posters' points right above this one) you gotta get this stuff ironed out before you launch a crusade like the TX governor just did.

The problem is in actuality the fact that this hasn't been fixed. It's a sad reflection on our society. To me the saddest part is that they wish to force people to have babies who are not ready. They promote "children having children" and then say they are thinking about the children. They must be talking about babies and not really children since they wish to force children to give birth.

On top of all that we actually have some who want to force children to have children and helping them after they give birth is something we shouldn't do. It's a prime example of mans inhumanity to man. Or mans inhumanity to babies as it were.

I agree with you 100%. And the fact that there is no exemption for incest and rape in this legislation is downright mental cruelty to women.

I mean what kind of idiots response to that is, "Well, we'll just end rape"?

I believe if you're going to force the poor and children to give birth, you must first put in place the mechanisms with which these babies can and will be cared for and given a decent chance to succeed.

If not they're simply perpetuating the cycle of poverty on to the next generation. They're perpetuating an increasing amount of public assistance and dependence on the system they so vehemently claim to oppose.

That was well said, and I agree.

I think one other thing that gets missed is that "devoting resources" does not always mean bigger government.

My wife, for instance, works for a non-profit organization that deals with homeless and the severely mentally ill. Often times the government will issue things like grants to private agencies based upon a community need. Agencies, like my wife's, have to submit competing bids regarding the costs, structure, and methodology they plan to implement in response to the government's need. Similar to how the government comes out and says "hey, industry, we need to design and build the next great missile targeting system, send us your designs and proposals."

I think the other thing that people don't consider is that there is going to be a "cost," so to speak. There will always be homeless people, people who are mentally ill, abandoned children, the impoverished, people who are down on their luck, etc. On one extreme, there's the concern that devoting too much resources creates a welfare state, but on the other extreme, if resources are nixed completely, that group of people still exists (unless you kill them all, of course). That can lead to higher homelessness, crime and civil unrest. Some might say, "Fine, throw them in jail." Well, that costs something, too, and it's not cheap.

So, to me, the sweet spot is finding that best value where you avoid excessive handouts, but also don't stick your head in the sand about a population of people that exist, or the fact that sometimes people are going to have a bad stint or two that really get them down.

My biggest point that I keep trying to get at in a lot of my discussions on this thread is that people who advocate against abortion often avoid or become obtuse when confronted with the contrary nature of taking a hard-line, fiscally conservative stance, which falls in line with the same thing you are calling out as well.

I pretty much completely agree with you (almost goes without saying, :-p


I'm almost at the point, though, where I'm not even worried about overspending on something like this. With how long adoption and foster services have been in their decrepit state, I'd be curious or even happy to see what these look like if they were over-funded.

Imagine my surprise to click on a thread about abortion and find an actual adult conversation going on.


I'm a big fan of this approach because I think the private sector (or non-profits), with government funding and some general guidelines to follow, provides better, more efficient, more effective services than a bloated government agency.


As the old saying goes, you can pay me now or pay me later.. but you will pay.

Getting a child reasonable nutrition and care, decent medical care, decent education, guidance, and mentorship greatly increases the likelihood that the child will grow into a productive adult member of society and actually become a contributor who does good work and pays taxes and raises healthy children of their own, thus breaking the cycle... denying the child those basic necessities greatly increases the chances they will become homeless, unemployed, criminals, who bring children into the world that they now can't care for, etc, thus repeating the cycle.... and they will continue the cycle of people who cost the taxpayers their entire lives..

We have to start looking at providing for children as an investment and not an expense.

Ha! Don't worry, it will devolve quickly again.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and oober (obviously, haha).

j/c...

I get it, you'd just let them starve.. Feeding them is a means to an end.. It's the starting point.. There are plenty of programs out there to assist them in pulling themselves up. But hey,, what the hell, cut funding.. Makes sense to me

What if they were homeless vets,,, would you not feed them?

It's in purple

I wonder why there aren’t a bunch of conservatives clowning the governor of Texas over his comments about rapist.

Remember when they said criminals don’t care about laws? Guess that doesn’t apply if a Republican makes a comment.

There were some on here that made comments about this. I know I did.

To your point, though, I haven't heard nearly enough of supporters of this bill getting clowned on.

Oh good lord, How in the hell did I miss that.. Geez