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Agreed. It's hard to believe that Baker all of a sudden is inaccurate And struggling after he played so well. Same with our O-line. We went from the #1 rated O-line to one that's struggling. That's unfathomable. It has to be injuries. The players are the same so's the scheme and the coaches. If we get healthy I believe we'll be fine. JMO
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That’s my hope too (let’s also hope he CAN get healthy) some things linger obviously
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Well, I feel better knowing I'm not the only one saying this. From the article: The elephant in the room, the issue I really don’t want to wade too deeply into is the murky waters of whether Mayfield is better without Beckham. However you feel about it, the data is not kind. According to Pro Football Focus, Mayfield's career passing grade with Beckham is 68.7 and without Beckham, it is 90.7.
There is no debate that things have to change soon as we peek into the future. It’s brutal to accurately quantify the issue and it ends up feeling like blaming the same person too often. However, the film and the data tell us that there’s a story to two Mayfields here, and the Browns have to find Mayfield's Dr. Jekyll and remove this version of Mr. Hyde with Beckham. The pair have it in them, I know they do.
The two players are immensely talented. It was excruciating to watch Mayfield trying so hard to make it work with Beckham yesterday only keep missing him on opportunity after opportunity. It’s affecting both of them to the point of body language crisis. Mayfield is wearing the stress of it on his entire being. Physically and mentally.
While the efforts yesterday are tough to watch, just as tough as some early efforts in 2020, Mayfield still has every chance to right this ship and turn the season into something memorable. Not one thing was defined yesterday and he is still behind the controls of fixing this thing. It will take a collective effort from everyone involved in the offense, and Mayfield will have to rise up again. The final story of this season is likely written in whether that happens for Mayfield and the Browns or not.
So, are we going to have to watch Baker struggle while trying to integrate OJB and get on the same page? I don't want to lose talent but I'm one of the few that think OBJ is not the OBJ of old. I think he is average to slightly above these days. He hasn't shown jack since being here other than a few flashes. If he was a rookie, he'd be our 4th or 5th stringer! BUT if he was rookie OBJ, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And I'm not sure if it's him or Baker, but Baker struggles like hell with him in the game for some reason. If SKI can't fix this in the next week or two, we need to trade OBJ.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Cousins is glad he's not facing us twice this year, lol
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Welcome to the club, Baker.
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JMHO, there is NO WAY to practice game day. Baker can throw the crap out of the ball, yet, he's human and EMOTIONAL. He gets high on emotion and throws the long ball to hard and high, then he starts aiming it after throwing long several times. ADD in the noise, overall atmosphere of dome playing....he's toast. Some how we've, Browns, need to help him with mental aspects, more like Coach S, needs to calm down...JMHO. Go Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
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Dislocated left shoulder -> torn labrum and possible rotator cuff tear.
If anyone thinks that does not affect how you throw, especially in a contact sport, think again. It will affect him mentally as well as physically and it won't get better until he has surgery to repair both, most likely.
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Cousins is glad he's not facing us twice this year, lol haha he had a look at one point yesterday that screamed HELP
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Dislocated left shoulder -> torn labrum and possible rotator cuff tear.
Do we know this for a fact? I thought the MRI showed no structural damage.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Dislocated left shoulder -> torn labrum and possible rotator cuff tear.
If anyone thinks that does not affect how you throw, especially in a contact sport, think again. It will affect him mentally as well as physically and it won't get better until he has surgery to repair both, most likely. The only problem with this analysis is he's not listed on the injury report and that's a serious penalty if discovered to be inaccurate
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Pure conjecture on my part. Just know the injury well and find it hard to believe that a dislocation resulted in no structural damage.
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Okay.... Claiming that OBJ's effort was lacking because he had to try to one hand that catch has nothing to do with OBJ. The pass was supposed to come to the inside and it came to the outside. By the time he saw that pass he was lucky he even had time to make a one handed attempt to catch the ball. There's no way he had time to turn his body enough to try and catch that ball with two hands. The elephant in the room here is Baker. He had a terrible game. We know it and he knows it. So for anyone who calls that "bashing or hating", they weren't paying attention. I like Baker but this game is what it is. All of this trying to place the blame on the fact OBJ is on the field is nuts. OBJ didn't make Baker miss a wide open Felton when we needed that first down. OBJ being on the field didn't make Baker overthrow the ball on multiple plays and miss wide open WR's on multiple plays. This is the second game in a row that Bakers footwork has been out if whack and it's showing. This week even more so than last week. I have no idea why it's happening. It could be the OL giving up more pressure. But when you begin having multiple injuries on your OL, which is going to happen in the NFL, you can't allow that to unnerve you. It could be the shoulder. But it's a regression form the last half of the 2020 season and the first 2 games of this season. Hopefully Baker works through it but we're going to need to see that happen if we hope to make the playoffs. Our schedule isn't kind. What happened to that defense of ours?!  Too many players stepped up for me to hand out game balls. It's amazing to see what a transformation can take place when a defense gels and begins to play as a cohesive unit. Any way you slice it we came out of it with a win.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Don't say our WRs weren't/aren't getting open. Baker needs to fix this ASAP.
If it's not Chaos, it's not Cleveland.
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Stefanski currently sits at 6-0 vs the NFC.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Stefanski currently sits at 6-0 vs the NFC. so last year we swept the NFCE and the AFCS .. and this year we’re 1/2 to sweeping the NFCN
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I'm guessing most of this is above. I didn't read it all.
Baker had a bad day. Kudos to him owning up to it. Part of the problem in my opinion has been poor OL pass blocking, part of it is that he's just missing guys. Hope it is fixed soon, we have three tough games in a row.
Gillan is not very good. Part of his low average is where he's kicking from, part but not all of it.
The refs were not very good again. I'll use the roughing penalty as an example. Not only did they miss a mugging, but the "low hit" wasn't a low hit, our defender was on the ground.
Stefanski made some poor decisions. 4th and 1 or maybe 2 I'm good with going for it, but 4th and 4 with that play call was bad. His challenge was a poor choice. Not challenging when Baker clearly dove for the 1st down. Some of the play calling was sketchier than previous games.
On the flip side, we ran well overall despite it not feeling like we did. And Woods has called 2 super games in a row. Greedy was solid and JOK is playing very very well.
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One player who I thought went well, but unnoticed yesterday was Elijah Lee, by the way. I see him a lot, so he isn't unnoticed here. The kid plays like he wants to start.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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That is a fair and accurate article.
His accuracy is not a urban myth.
Nor does he have issue with deep ball accuracy.
He does have a problem with consistency. He has been streaky.
I have seen Baker make high grade NFL throws into tight windows with anticipation, touch and accuracy.
However, he also has stunk at times where he seems to go blind and throw poorly.
At the same time I have seen Hall of Fame quarterbacks do the same at times.
Baker is a hard worker who is very hard on himself. He will do what he needs to do to become more consistent.
The NFL is no playground and quarterback is an extremely difficult position to play.
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j/c...
Tough day for Baker. Accuracy was terrible and he was back to "willy nilly" in the pocket whenever he felt pressure.
Baker has a + arm, he does not have an elite arm. Most of his velocity comes through strong legs, great hips and the fact that he is usually very mechanically sound all the way through his delivery. A "bad wing" on his left side is disturbing that process. He's trying to make up for it be "throwing" harder and that is affecting his accuracy.
NOW... that is not meant to be an excuse, it's just a fact, one that he will have to work through going forward... hopefully he heals (or heals enough to do the job) sooner rather than later.
The decision making? Not good right now. Why? I don't have all the answers but I'll back up to my first point. He's been under almost constant pressure over the last two games, the OL is a little beat up, and that leads to "willy nilly" Baker. That Baker always looks a little confused once his first read isn't a gimme. I'm not worried, Baker will be fine.
This team is not the same without Jarvis Landry on the field.
WE saw clear evidence of how hard this team will be to beat when the defense steps up. The very best compliment to our elite run game is a solid defense. When you can "grind it out" and your defense can get off the field, you can win games in the NFL despite poor QB play -- yesterday was evidence. The Vikings burned 7:34 on their first drive... they held the ball for less than 17 minutes after that drive.
Baker / OBJ? Obviously nobody has any answers, if anyone here does, I would love to hear them.
Where are the Tight Ends?? Texans game - 11 catches on 12 targets for 117. The last two games combined 6/14 for 50. This is a real head-scratcher.
There have been 319 games in the NFL since the beginning of last season. Only twice has a team scored 14 or less and won... both games saw the Browns as victors. It would have been only once had Nick Chubb not stepped out at the 1 to lock up that ugly victory vs the Texans last year at 10-7.
Win pretty, win ugly... just win baby.
On to the next...
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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I haven't looked at Bakers mechanic this year, but last year he had a problem with too long of a stride. When you do that, you cannot get over your front foot so the ball tends to be high.
I would bet that is what was going on yesterday.
People who lack accountability think everything is an attack
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I did not see him over striding.
Hard to define what was wrong. I have no idea how he did not see Felton in the flat for a first down?
There were cases in the last two weeks where guys were open and he did not see them? Or, he saw them and decided against the throw?
He seemed tight. Like he played tight. When you are in a zone everything spins around you and you are calm and collected. You see. You fire. You trust.
I am confident Baker will find his way. He believes in hard work and preparation. And that is what it takes.
Last edited by bonefish; 10/04/21 04:26 PM.
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Anybody else think Baker is intimidated by Odell? I think something happens with his nerves when he goes to looking for Odell down the field. It doesn't help that he's been under pressure too, but still. He missed on so many other passes too but I'm specifically referring to the deep ball. Either way, Baker is shook. Particularly in these last 2 games.
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Anybody else think Baker is intimidated by Odell? I think something happens with his nerves when he goes to looking for Odell down the field. It doesn't help that he's been under pressure too, but still. He missed on so many other passes too but I'm specifically referring to the deep ball. Either way, Baker is shook. Particularly in these last 2 games. Absolutely not. I don't think anyone or anything can intimidate Baker on the field.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c...
Tough day for Baker. Accuracy was terrible and he was back to "willy nilly" in the pocket whenever he felt pressure.
Baker has a + arm, he does not have an elite arm. Most of his velocity comes through strong legs, great hips and the fact that he is usually very mechanically sound all the way through his delivery. A "bad wing" on his left side is disturbing that process. He's trying to make up for it be "throwing" harder and that is affecting his accuracy.
NOW... that is not meant to be an excuse, it's just a fact, one that he will have to work through going forward... hopefully he heals (or heals enough to do the job) sooner rather than later.
The decision making? Not good right now. Why? I don't have all the answers but I'll back up to my first point. He's been under almost constant pressure over the last two games, the OL is a little beat up, and that leads to "willy nilly" Baker. That Baker always looks a little confused once his first read isn't a gimme. I'm not worried, Baker will be fine.
This team is not the same without Jarvis Landry on the field.
WE saw clear evidence of how hard this team will be to beat when the defense steps up. The very best compliment to our elite run game is a solid defense. When you can "grind it out" and your defense can get off the field, you can win games in the NFL despite poor QB play -- yesterday was evidence. The Vikings burned 7:34 on their first drive... they held the ball for less than 17 minutes after that drive.
Baker / OBJ? Obviously nobody has any answers, if anyone here does, I would love to hear them.
Where are the Tight Ends?? Texans game - 11 catches on 12 targets for 117. The last two games combined 6/14 for 50. This is a real head-scratcher.
There have been 319 games in the NFL since the beginning of last season. Only twice has a team scored 14 or less and won... both games saw the Browns as victors. It would have been only once had Nick Chubb not stepped out at the 1 to lock up that ugly victory vs the Texans last year at 10-7.
Win pretty, win ugly... just win baby.
On to the next...
Very nice post Fate, I enjoyed how you backed your opinion with some stats........Thanks
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
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For myself. I don't like to speculate on that kind of thing.
However, Odell was an established player when Baker came into the league.
As a younger player there is something to prove. You want to earn the respect of the stars.
But Baker and Odell have been teammates for going on two years now. They have spent time together outside of Berea. They have been in the same system.
Baker has thrown to Odell a lot at practice. We should begin to see them in sync.
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j/c
So, the Browns won. Baker had a poor day. The vikings d was supposed to be tough. The vikings O was top notch, according to ..........well, everyone.
Our D has yet to 'gel'. (according to posters). Worried about a high scoring affair, and if our D could stop their O.
Browns won. Our D stopped their O.
We won, with Baker having a bad day. Chubb and Hunt did not have bad days.
We won, we move on.
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That net's it out really.
We won. Sometimes how you win has to come from different people.
I for one do not freak out when a player has a bad game. Fumbles, picks, dropped snaps, bad punts, missed field goals, missed extra points, etc. happen.
Aaron Rodgers plays quarterback about as good as the position can be played.
Quarterbacks have bad games — Aaron Rodgers completed 54 percent for 133 yards with two interceptions and a 36.8 passer rating in a Week 1 loss to the Saints.
You move on. Especially when you win.
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I was throughly impressed with Greedy Williams. We have four corners that are legit NFL starters and that’s insane.
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Shared this to help talk myself down, as well as any of the others carrying pitchforks for Baker, lol
The takeaways that Quincy has here are pretty spot-on. This was pretty much the worst (hopefully) offensive performance we are likely to see this year... and we STILL WON. We can rest assured that they will get the offense fixed and when they do, we will return to having a Top 5 offense and we now have the 2nd best, and maybe arguably the best, defense in the NFL to go with that.
When the O gets back on track, there will be fireworks flying everywhere.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think my concern with Baker is that he has seemed off a few games in the row. If it's not the shoulder, then I'm even more concerned at what it could be.
I've been waiting for him to turn it around and take that next step where the arrow flips back upwards, but it's been trending the other way over the past few games.
Now, I'm not saying this to lend any credence to the whole sit/cut/tar/feather Baker movement at all.
Similar to my concerns with Woods' defense, I am anxious to see that things get corrected and not perpetuate. Hopefully Baker follows the same trend line that Woods' defense has recently.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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j/c... I was just reading an article on BSPN about Baker needing to be better and ran across this. Browns defense = QBs worst nightmare right now... Mayfield wound up connecting on just 15 of his 33 attempts for 155 yards while taking three sacks. His QBR for the afternoon was just 15.6 (scale 0-to-100), the eighth-worst outing of any quarterback this season (the Browns' defense, by the way has now forced three of the seven worst performances: Davis Mills, 12.9, Kirk Cousins, 9.8, and Justin Fields, 6.0).
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Browns PFF Grades vs VikingsDefense: Parentheses are # of snaps played Myles Garrett: 90.2 (61). Jadeveon Clowney: 81.4 (49). Takk McKinley: 71.4 (38). Joe Jackson: 43.1 (5). Malik Jackson: 81.1 (51). Jordan Elliott: 56.0 (15). Andrew Billings: 44.6 (5). Malik McDowell: 44.2 (44). Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah: 75.8 (35). Malcolm Smith: 74.6 (51). Mack Wilson: 66.3 (11). Elijah Lee: 53.7 (14). Sione Takitaki: 48.4 (24). Greedy Williams: 86.4 (67). Troy Hill: 72.0 (42). Denzel Ward: 70.3 (66). A.J. Green: 43.2 (1). Grant Delpit: 74.1 (65). John Johnson III: 69.5 (67). M.J. Stewart: 67.0 (24). Ronnie Harrison: 63.0 (2). Offense: Parentheses are # of snaps played Baker Mayfield: 49.2 (78) - 12/22 from a clean pocket. Under pressure on 40% of dropbacks 3/11 on passes under pressure Mayfield responsible for both his sacks Demetric Felton: 80.1 (6) Andy Janovich: 72.2 (5) - Run Block Grade = 49.9 Kareem Hunt: 70.0 (41) Nick Chubb: 55.8 (37) - Avg. 2.9 yards after contact was averaging 4.0 yds after contact Rashard Higgins: 75.0 (41) Odell Beckham: 56.1 (62) Anthony Schwartz: 53.9 (15) Donovan Peoples-Jones: 50.2 (46) David Njoku: 66.9 (52) Austin Hooper: 64.1 (56) Harrison Bryant: 53.7 (29) Joel Bitonio: 90.9 (78) J.C. Tretter: 69.7 (78) - Best Pass Block Grade = 75.4 Jack Conklin: 68.0 (78) - Run Block Grade = 73.4 Wyatt Teller: 65.4 (78) Jedrick Wills Jr: 58.5 (57) - Run Block Grade = 73.8 - Worst Pass Block = 37.7 James Hudson III: 50.2 (21) https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10...eplaceable.html https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10...eplaceable.html
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Higgins is the security blanket that Landry is thought to be. I don't think we miss Landry at all. I disagree with you here. I'd argue Landry is the glue on the offense regardless of what his stats or contract says. This team misses Landry a bunch. The deep ball is certainly not what makes the Browns offense tick. On a side note, Hollywood "All I do is catch first down passes" Higgins is the current Brian Brennan or Jurevicius on the team. Who Frickin Cares!!! I ain't seen Schwartz do a touchdown dance! I ain't seen Schwartz do a touchdown dance! Schwartz ain't caught a ball IN THREE GAMES!! (Bench Schwartz for Higgins) let him learn for a time period.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
Anybody else think Baker is intimidated by Odell? I think something happens with his nerves when he goes to looking for Odell down the field. It doesn't help that he's been under pressure too, but still. He missed on so many other passes too but I'm specifically referring to the deep ball. Either way, Baker is shook. Particularly in these last 2 games. Absolutely not. I don't think anyone or anything can intimidate Baker on the field. Baker was sacked 5 times in the Bears game. (that's OL, and the Browns on Ol have rookie James Hudson, messing up the continuity of depth. Mayfield is nursing an injury he got on a tackle that some have said the interception was A. Schwartz' fault. What a difference from 2020-2021. Specifically, The dividends of two team decisions. Letting OL, Kendall Lamm, go to the Titans, replacing with some rookie draft pick. (Not top 50 overall) Drafting a 50/50 track runner college football player and trying to rely on them, (Schwartz) with a 3rd round pick.  Now you have a Qb who was sacked 5 times, two games ago vs. the Bears, and is nursing an injured shoulder from 3 games ago, vs the Texans. And he's playing with WR's he has no chemistry with.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,290 Likes: 247
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,290 Likes: 247 |
Higgins is the security blanket that Landry is thought to be. I don't think we miss Landry at all. I disagree with you here. I'd argue Landry is the glue on the offense regardless of what his stats or contract says. This team misses Landry a bunch. The deep ball is certainly not what makes the Browns offense tick. On a side note, Hollywood "All I do is catch first down passes" Higgins is the current Brian Brennan or Jurevicius on the team. Who Frickin Cares!!! I ain't seen Schwartz do a touchdown dance! I ain't seen Schwartz do a touchdown dance! Schwartz ain't caught a ball IN THREE GAMES!! (Bench Schwartz for Higgins) let him learn for a time period. Look at the snap counts. Higgins is getting Just about what DPJ is getting. Schwartz is getting about a third.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
Any answers for Baker and Odell .. or Schwartz?
Send the receiver 40 yards up the sideline! The ball only has one place to go, and so does the WR.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
I think it's time to turn away from PFF grades, may look back later.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 14 Vikings 7 Post Game Thoughts!!
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