DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Defense still wins championships #2

j/c:

#FreeFireJoeWoods

Good point bone. Stefanski has had a sophomore slump. He’s still very inexperienced. He’s going to be here a long time. In the long run games like this might be good for him … I actually do have faith in him to right the ship of the franchise.

step 1: new defensive approach

It seemed to me that he was so worried about being out-coached that he really didn't coach at all.

Last year, through our first 10 games, our 7 wins were against:

Cincy (4-11)
Washington (7-9)
Dallas (6-10)
Indy (11-5)
Cincy (4-11)
Houston (4-12)
Philly (4-11)

And our losses to:
Baltimore (11-5)
Pittsburgh (12-4)
Las Vegas (8-8)

We had 1 win last season at this point against a team with a winning record and 7 of our 10 games were played against teams that would end up .500 or worse.

This seasons wins:
Houston (1-8)
Chicago (3-6)
Minny (4-5)
Denver (5-5)
Cincy (5-4)

And our losses to:
KC (6-4)
LA Chargers (5-4)
Arizona (8-2)
Pittsburgh (5-3-1)
New England (6-4)

We have 1 win against a team with a winning record, at this point, but only 4 of our 10 games have been played against teams that are currently .500 or worse.

We are basically right where we were last year, we are beating the .500 and below teams that we should beat, but we aren't beating the top half that we need to compete with... and on our remaining schedule, the Lions is our only game against a team that is not currently over .500... so we have put ourselves in a very bad spot to make the playoffs, but regardless, we will find out a lot about whether we are able to compete with playoff caliber teams in this stretch.. and with 4 games left in our division, we will have a good understanding where we stand against the teams in our division..

It definitely seems like we struggle to consistently rise to the occasion and break the glass ceiling of mediocrity. It just has that feeling of resignation to never be a great team.

To return to the topic's orbit: This defense will not win championships as played. They do not look like better teams' defenses. And they look inferior regularly despite having more talent than their play displays. They don't get off the field on third downs often enough, don't seem to change or adjust much in-game or week to week, and what has been exposed gets them burnt repeatedly. One corner whiffs regularly. We are often chasing a play that is already made. Seems to suit Woods and Ski. By week 11, surely you are seeing your scheme come together and getting the unit play you want and believe in, your philosophical football foundation. Did the defenses look different Sunday to others.

That wasn't a loss. It was worse IMO. The downward spiral is getting worse faster.

I see this as a good thing..leaders on the defense speaking out...

We have seen some on this message board wonder what the heck the defensive plan was and question the plan as well as the coaches responsible for the defensive plan. Problems with the defense was the last thing many expected to see going into the season, but from the very first game there were questions concerning the defensive game plan.

When fans complain, no one from the Browns organization listens. When commentators and talking heads complain about the Browns defense, maybe a few within the Browns organization take notice. But, when those playing on the defense start questioning their defensive coaches...99% if those within the Browns organization take notice.

The Browns are 5-5 with an outside chance of making the playoffs, so it's not too late to "begin" listening to the fans, talking head, commentators and especially your own defensive players. The Browns defense has problems that can be corrected if there is a something done NOW!

Below, Myles Garrett speaks out!


Myles Garrett takes dig at Browns coaches after getting crushed by Patriots
By Andrew Crane

November 15, 2021 3:02pm Updated
https://nypost.com/2021/11/15/myles-garrett-takes-dig-at-browns-coaches-after-patriots-rout/


After the Patriots racked up 45 unanswered points against the Cleveland Browns on Sunday, defensive end Myles Garrett said that he didn’t think the Browns countered like they were supposed to — taking a jab at defensive coordinator Joe Woods and the rest of the coaching staff.

In four of their five losses this season, the Browns have allowed opponents to score 33 points or more.

“We’ve got to go back to the drawing board and see how we can get better, see how we can scheme better, see how we can make adjustments on the fly,” Garrett said in his postgame press conference. “We never had a chance just because we didn’t make any adjustments on the sideline or when we had time to.”

Garrett didn’t specifically address Woods or head coach Kevin Stefanski by name, but said that the overall lack of adjustments allowed the New England offense to keep stringing drives together — scoring 38 points across the final three quarters. Only one drive, excluding victory-formation kneels at the end of the game, didn’t end with points for the Patriots, while quarterback Mac Jones was 19-for-23 with 198 yards with three touchdowns.


Running back Rhamondre Stevenson, drafted in this year’s fourth round out of Oklahoma, had the first 100-yard rushing game of his NFL career. Garrett, who finished with one tackle and sack, said that New England was “max protecting” and kept trying to attack the middle of the field, something that the Cleveland defense didn’t have an answer for.

“I think we didn’t counter like we are supposed to,” Garrett said. “We didn’t stop the bleeding and they kept attacking where we were deficient.”


Woods is in his second season as defensive coordinator for the Browns. He joined Stefanski’s staff from the San Francisco 49ers ahead of the 2020 season. Cleveland, which currently sits in last place in the AFC North, hosts the winless Detroit Lions on Sunday, while New England will look for a fifth straight win on Thursday when it travels to Atlanta.

The one thing that gets me about Myles speaking out (which I agree with), is that throughout the game the announcers repeatedly pointed out that they were letting MG rush enough to get behind him with their running and PA plays. I'm not sure how many plays were to his side, but it was a bunch. That situation was on Myles, his job might have been to pressure but he had to see what they were doing to him and HE had no answer either.

j/c:

"The defense in particular has been inconsistent"?

Our defense has given up more than 21 points in five games.

Our offense has scored less than 21 points in in six games.

The inconsistency has been quite a team issue with neither side of the ball looking any less consistent than the other by any noticeable margin.

That'll happen when you sign older free agents.

Yep. Right now Woods seems to be our weak link on the team.

I had no idea he ran the offense that has scored less than 21 points in six games.

LOL....If I said the opposite you would still disagree. Go play in the street. I hope it's a very busy street.

You know you have won when someone can't make an intelligent counterpoint.

We certainly didn't lose despite his efforts (they could've played well but we only scored 7), but the last 3 games have been very good defensive outings. Defense couldn't get off the field, but the offense couldn't stay on it, either.

Are you saying the defensive game planners aren't working hard enough of the coaches, or are you saying the Whole team, offensive coaches included aren't working hard enough in game planning.

Because I dang sure think the Browns have a more talented defense than the p'zant Dolphins today!
and I sure as same think the Browns have a more talented quarter back than that blind noodle arm Tua, and we Sure as heck know the Browns running backs are better than mike gisecki

and all I can think of
is how the dumb dolphins whooped the ravens by 12, when the Same Ole Browns couldn't beat
the ravens
in a hundred tries,

What are the game planners for! Do they come up with a form letter in May and then take the rest of the $##### year off!

I count 4 games with less than 21 points by the Baker led offense, not 6.

You're both wrong. It's 5.

Hammer is right you are wrong. If the question is This Year!
Starts by Baker do not include the Broncos game.
Baker was hurt in the Texans game, and also the patriots game but he started the Patriots game, and he returned in the Texans game.
week1. Browns 29- 33, at chiefs
week2. Browns 31-21 Texans
week 3. Browns 26-6 Bears
week4. "14"-7 at Vikings

5. 42-47 at chargers
6. "14" -37 Cardinals
7 Broncos game Baker did not play 17-14.

8. "10"- 15 Steelers
9. 41- 16 at Bengals
10. "7"-45 at Patriots.

The offense with Baker, or well, the TEAM, when Baker played has scored less than 21, 4 of 9 times in the 10 games this year, and once with Keenum in the Bronco game.
So it's 4.

And they've come in our last 6 games...

I said games with which Baker played. He did not play in the Broncos game. So right as rain...

week1. Browns 29-33, at chiefs
week2. Browns 31-21 Texans
week 3. Browns 26-6 Bears
week4. "14"-7, at Vikings

week 5. 42-47, at Chargers
week 6. "14"-37 Cardinals
week 7. Broncos game Baker did not play 17-14.

week 8. "10"- 15 Steelers
week 9. 41- 16, at Bengals
week 10. "7"-45, at Patriots

And there you have it.

I stand corrected.

That level of inconsistency is on the coaches.

The offense started out somewhat consistent before Baker got hurt with games of 29, 31, and 26.... but the last 7 games have been 14, 42, 14, 17, 10, 41, 7.

the defense has been just as bad with 33, 21, 6, 7, 47, 37, 14, 15, 16, 45

Now I'm no guru, but that kind of inconsistency on both sides of the ball would led me to believe that if we have a good game plan, it works. If they are defeating our game plan, we can't/don't adjust.

This is just one of the reasons that I think Stefanski should relinquish the play calling to AVP so that he has time during the game to actually coach. To identify what's working and what's not and take responsibility for being a part of making those adjustments to both the offense and the defense.

I could buy into that if Baker would have thrown accurate balls last week. I just find it all odd. To me either the players execute or they don't. If they execute the plays being called it's said the coaches are doing great. The players fail to execute the plays, it's the coaches fault. I don't know what the problem is for everything that's going wrong. I just find it hard to buy into believing that the same HC that led us to an 11 win, playoff season last year suddenly forgot what he's doing. At some point we need to hold the players who are not performing accountable.

So Myles missed practice today for "personal reasons" after making his comments. Sorry if already mentioned, but I didn't see it.

No, Stefanski didn't forget what he is doing... our schedule is significantly harder this year than it was last year, plus there is an entire year of film and an entire off-season to breakdown what Stefanski did last year... I don't think he forgot what he's doing, but I do question whether he has grown in what he is doing or if he is just doing the same things he did last year, which most teams are ready for. Our offense felt a lot more consistent last year but we were still held under 21 points 7 times, single digits 3 times....

Maybe that's why AVP was so successful in the playoff game against the Steelers (putting up 48 points), because they could prepare for the Browns but couldn't prepare for AVP calling the plays... so using the same playbook, maybe the nuance of difference in how he called the plays is what made him so successful in his one game..

Plus, his QB this year has played more than half the games with a serious shoulder injury...

So the fact they had eight weeks of film on the Browns going into the second half of the season when we won so many games didn't help them?

General reply....

I think that if this FO is anywhere near as analytics-driven and committed to leaving no stone unturned in terms of improvement, we're going to see some changes over the off-season. I doubt we'll see anything in-season so long as the team sticks together and doesn't completely fall apart. They responded to the OBJ exit and they need another response now.

And I'm not saying they should do anything dramatic, but the coaching staff needs to all, each one, take a good long look in the mirror and some blunt conversations need to occur.

Some would say that would be a reason CKS should stop calling plays, but I do not concur.

From my novice vantage point, based on our gross inconsistency and frequent stagnation on offense, 1 of 3 things has to be true..

1. Everybody on the offense who is not named Nick Chubb has regressed, with Baker not only regressing but falling completely off the cliff.
2. Baker is way more hurt than anybody is letting on and Stefanski won't pull him for his own, and the teams, good.
3. Stefanski either didn't change up the offense from last year and most teams are onto him or he did change it up and his changes aren't very effective.

Like most offenses, everything starts with our OL, and we had a ton of injuries down the stretch last year, far more than we have had to this point this year, yet the offense remained much more consistent.

I definitely think something has to be going on with Baker. Aside from that forced INT against the Chiefs, he was destroying them with all kinds of downfield passing and whatnot.

I will say that - from my novice eye like yours - one thing I feel is different between AVP and Stefanski in terms of playcalling is the complexity. Stefanski seems to be more of a chess player in the mold of Kyle Shanahan, where he sets up certain plays at the beginning and then shows that same look later in hopes of catching the defense off guard. It has the boom potential of completely catching the defense with their pants down, or it could blow up in our face.

In the Steelers game last year, I felt like AVP just found a pressure point and kept pushing it. I can't remember who that OLB was the Steelers had, but he got absolutely annihilated by Teller on one pull. It seems AVP noticed, because he just kept doing it. The Steelers seemed like they knew it was coming, but just couldn't stop it at times.