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Ugh. sick


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I still think they have time to get it together. I think Baker Mayfield, OBJ, and KS are all THE guys we need here to lock down the QB, #1 WR, and HC/shot-caller/scheme guy, respectively.

But I'm starting to question OBJ's future role in this offense. I know there's been a lot they've been working against to get in sync, but time is running out on that excuse.


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Yesterday, Baker Mayfield lost his third career game in which his team scored 42 points or more.

No other QB in NFL history has more than one such loss in their career.

https://twitter.com/NickPedone12/status/1447530766213189641


In franchise history, the #Browns have only lost 4 times when scoring 40+ points.

1) @ Chargers 47-42 (2021)

2) vs Ravens 47-42 (2020)

3) @ Raiders 45-42 (2018)

4) @ Bengals 58-48 (2004)

https://twitter.com/CLE_STATS/status/1447591187586691074


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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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Unless there is injury.

I do not see how Mack Wilson gets on the field.

For the few times he played yesterday. His reaction speed and tackling are horrible.

Troy Hill got used.

How the comminication on defense failed when depth was played is very alarming.

The drop off from last week to this game on defense is concerning.

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Highest-graded #Browns in Week 5 (min. 25 snaps):

David Njoku, TE- 92.5
Wyatt Teller, OG- 88.8
Joel Bitonio, OG- 82.9
Myles Garrett, EDGE- 79
Greedy Williams, CB- 78.5

https://twitter.com/PFF_Browns/status/1447592614295969799

Last edited by GratefulDawg; 10/11/21 12:04 PM.

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Quote:
I still think they have time to get it together.

Maybe I'm nuts but I don't think there is all that much to "get together".. We are 3-2. Our 2 losses both came on the road against teams that are expected to be still standing late in the playoffs.. and we had both teams beat and outplayed them for the majority of the game.

The Chiefs game, the Chubb fumble, the Gillan drop, the Baker falling down gift INT.. you won't see 4 of those events the rest of the year and we had 3 in the same game.

This team just needs to learn how to close... and that's part of the learning process for Stefanski, Baker, Woods, the whole team really. Mistakes were made by all in both of our losses...


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Cleveland -2.5 against Arizona.

Get in while you can. I'm guessing that line moves in Arizona's favor. And the line is 51. I'd take the over here as well.


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" but the miscommunication stuff is extremely worrisome "

Point well made ! This has been a thorn in our side both last season and this one so far . I could say don't fix the blame ; fix the problem , But ..

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How can we be favored against Arizona? Even if we are at home

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Originally Posted By: waterdawg
" but the miscommunication stuff is extremely worrisome "

Point well made ! This has been a thorn in our side both last season and this one so far . I could say don't fix the blame ; fix the problem , But ..


I agree with the concern but those things are what happens when you run with young players and it's why so much value is placed on veterans. In spite of what is being said, Delpit blew his assignment 2 times and it cost us dearly.

As you also know the criticism early on of Woods was he wasn't turning this defense loose and now we all should know why he had it dummied down. But I bet most don't and won't understand what I just said, much less understand even now why he ran it the way he did.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Baker Mayfield has lost 3 times

Really it wasnt the D losing or the team losing it was Baker? wink



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I think you mean Harrison. Delpit was used sparingly in the slot, not as a split safety.


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Originally Posted By: FL_Dawg
I think you mean Harrison. Delpit was used sparingly in the slot, not as a split safety.


Not unless Harrison was able to swap uniforms to 22... But I believe I am right on this I will watch again but I believe it was 22 Delpit both times.............. For sure the 1st time and I honestly thought the second time as well. The 2nd was the worst because it already happened once..........

Oh I think you believe whoever covered him off the line was responsible Delpitt had deep safety duties and in this case was suppose to make sure nobody got behind him. The cover guy I am not even sure of passed them off to Delpit and we know the result.


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Tough loss... more accurately described as "good old Browns - snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

First things first, the NFL really needs to do something to mitigate the effect of PI on it's game. That call was, in a word, egregious. At best (if the NFL can ever streamline the process) ALL PI calls should be reviewed. At least, all 4th quarter call reviews should be mandatory. We've entered an era where too many games are ruined by bad calls. An era where teams just heave the ball in the air hoping for a call, and era where part of a WRs repertoire is initiating contact to encourage these calls. It is flat-out ruining the game.

Baker Mayfield again shoulders (no pun intended) blame for the loss because he didn't "win" the game at the end. A game in which his defense gives up 26 points in the 4th quarter. Such is life for an NFL QB, I guess.

Mayfield looked much better this game but still couldn't get it done at crunch-time. Just as much blame goes to the coach and play-calling in my book.

To sum up the last two possessions: Coach- you don't run the ball on 3rd and 9 because you're worried about protection. That's fine late in the 2nd quarter, it's ridiculous at the end of a game when your defense has no hope of stopping the opposing offense. QB- winning in the NFL requires taking chances. With 1:30 and no TO's you have to go down field. Whether a result of play-calling or coverage, 3 yard dump passes are stupid. You would be better off firing the ball into the feet of the receiver.

"Taking bullets away from a gunslinger" is about the most perfect description as I have seen for Mayfield's play this year. I'm sure both parties (coach and QB) are at fault, but it has to change. We've gone from a QB with no fear of winging it anywhere on the field at any time, to someone that seems too scared of a mistake to play the position effectively. There is a happy medium, it will produce more INTs but it will also add a dimension to a high-powered offense that will leave a defense playing on it's heels for most of the game. It has to change... now.

Hopefully Landry makes his return next week. This offense is not the same without him. Baker/OBJ are subjects of some strange rift in the universe. For whatever reason, the gods are unhappy and I'm almost convinced that the situation will never correct itself. Anthony Schwartz is anything but an NFL WR. Not sure I've ever watched someone with world-class speed, his man beaten, slow down... to then watch the ball go over his out-stretched hands.

Stefanski has been a bit of a dichotomy so far this season. How can a coach be so bold as to go for it on nearly every 4th down yet so conservative in his play-calling at the worst possible times? Sometimes it seems like the proverbial "outsmarting himself" as play calls seem to be based entirely on what the defense should least-expect.

On to the next... two games in ten days with a banged up defense. These two games may spell the difference between a great season and screams from the aisles of "same old Browns!".

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What does this mean?

Baker isn't good enough to win a high scoring game?

Baker plays with bad defenses?

Or it's a coincidence and Baker is just getting very very unlucky?

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. " . But I bet most don't and won't understand what I just said, much less understand even now why he ran it the way he did."

Normally wouldn't respond to a post like this ; But I'm really tired of your insulting posters or fans who have different opinion than yours .. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

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I have to wonder if the entire "taking bullets away from a gunslinger" has something to do with the shoulder injury. I don't know that it does but one has to wonder.


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Stefanski said he was worried about the tackle situation at the end of the game. My recollection was also that we were having far more success up until that point in getting the ball to playmakers and letting them go to work (ex. Njoku TD) vs hitting on a homerun pass.

I think it's the shoulder injury plus our banged up line. Spinning that into rish's "KS doesn't trust Mayfield because he isn't clutch" is being deliberately obtuse.


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Njoku maybe had his best day as a Brown yesterday


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Njoku maybe had his best day as a Brown yesterday


Him and DPJ both had excellent games. I've also been really impressed with how Greedy has been filling in.


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I don't agree with all you said but much of what you said I do.

The same old Browns statement is a by gone time the old Browns would have never been in the game to start with.

I do believe that Ski loses some good common sense when play calling. If there was anything the Bolts feared it was Chubb and Hunt when you go empty backfield well you remove that fear.

I am a big believer in doing the unexpected with acceptation that being when you can close out a game, there you must be bold and you MUST be aggressive with a tinge of good common sense.

I would do a few things different I would never run a play without Chubb or Hunt in the backfield. That threat must always be there no matter down or distance. Hunt and Chubb can both catch the ball out of the backfield and if you want to play it safe dump the ball off to them most of the time they are uncovered anyway and I like their chances in the open field.

The second thing I would do is I would abandon Baker running the ball and I would never not move Baker around as much as possible he is deadly when on the move. The experiment of transforming Baker into a primarily pocket passer isn't working IMO and it takes away one of his best assets and it helps the O line with protection I believe. We saw how effective he was with simple roll outs.

I thought Nyjoku had a great game and has been underutilized for way to long. Teams don't expect us to use him and so far we truly don't disappoint. He must get more touches in this game we saw how effective he can be, use him for Gods sake use him. Want to go to a play to close a game look at David.


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Originally Posted By: waterdawg
. " . But I bet most don't and won't understand what I just said, much less understand even now why he ran it the way he did."

Normally wouldn't respond to a post like this ; But I'm really tired of your insulting posters or fans who have different opinion than yours .. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.


I will send over some tissues for you to wipe away your tears.... notallthere


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I guess there's a strong possibility that the shoulder plays a role, but the philosophy is not sustainable, especially if our defense is going to be inconsistent and plagued by injury. It's all well and good if an elite defense is going to hold your opponent to 24 and under every game.

I feel like the philosophy is the result of our greatest strength... our ground game, unfortunately we handcuff the possibility of being an elite offense by not even trying... almost as if we don't need to because of our ground game. Not going to win the "big boy" games in this league with your tail between you legs.


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I just don't think that if his shoulder is seriously hampering him, those long passes where you have to put your body into them would be wise to call.

Maybe I'm missing something here. But our O put up 42 points,Baker passed for over 70% completion, over 300 passing yards and we had over 500 yards of offense.

I mean I get it. On that last drive maybe the play calling should have gone in a different direction on that final possession. I'll still never figure out how when you put up 42 points, win the TOP and have no turnovers, people try and put the loss on a single drive and the play calling.

There's no way you put up 42 points and should lose.


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Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
How can we be favored against Arizona? Even if we are at home
Probably because Ski has never lost two in a row.


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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
How can we be favored against Arizona? Even if we are at home
Probably because Ski has never lost two in a row.
Beating Arizona and Denver would take a lot of the sting out of yesterday’s game, but it won’t be easy.

We’ll have a lot at stake in the Baltimore-Baltimore-Cincinnati-Las Vegas stretch


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
How can we be favored against Arizona? Even if we are at home
Probably because Ski has never lost two in a row.


With the amount of MRIs that need to get done today, we're going to put that stat to the test.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I have to wonder if the entire "taking bullets away from a gunslinger" has something to do with the shoulder injury. I don't know that it does but one has to wonder.

The injury might be a small part of it but I don't think it's the major reason. I think the major reason is the most obvious.. if we run the ball, control the clock and play just average defense we will win most games as long as we don't make mistakes. Mayfield has been so coached up in not making mistakes and letting the "process work" that when he needs to turn it on, it's tough. It's not just a switch to flip.

And for the record, I think Stefanski is having just as much trouble switching his coaching style from "the plan" to being more aggressive when the situation demands it.


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j/c

I haven't read the thread, I'm giving my uninfluenced opinion after sleeping on yesterday's game.

It was entertaining. The result was in doubt to the final play. We lost, and that's a bummer, but we were in it to the end.

The defense was decimated!! Next man up, and all, but the stellar defensive lineup AB had built over the off-season was not available. And against one of the brightest young stars in the NFL, our 5th & 6th string CB and hobbled DL weren't up to the task.

I know the critics will decry that Baker could have put the team on his back and carried them to victory...the mark of a franchise QB. But I think about those 2 decades of wandering the QB desert, searching for a savior to take us to the promised land. Baker, with all his warts, is the best QB we've had in Cleveland since Bernie.

It was a tough loss. But it was one where we would have been blown out by halftime 2 years ago, even this time last year. This team is a talented team. With our frontline defense, I think we would have won.


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I agree 100%.

I think it's especially ludicrous to blame your QB in a game where your defense gives up 26 points in the 4th. Baker had a great game by most standards.

To be clear, I'm definitely not talking about a "bombs away" greatest show on turf type scheme, I'm talking about going downfield on a more consistent basis. Not 40 yards, 15 to 20 yards. Last year we watched Baker climb to QB elite in terms of "20 air yards", yesterday he averaged 5 YARDS per pass completion. Huge difference between that and "those long passes".

I feel like our offense becomes too predictable when we are constantly in "play it safe" mode. I'm not trying to pin the loss on this, I'm saying that it seems like it's becoming a trend, and in my opinion, it's unsustainable if you want to compete with the elite.

Hopefully the return of Landry will help open things up again. He's our best WR, despite everybody always talking about the chemistry between Bake and Higgins, Landry is the WR baker trusts the most.


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Quote:
I feel like our offense becomes too predictable when we are constantly in "play it safe" mode. I'm not trying to pin the loss on this, I'm saying that it seems like it's becoming a trend, and in my opinion, it's unsustainable if you want to compete with the elite.

Not sure I would say it becomes too predictable... but when we get into must have drives and the defense starts loading the box even more than they already are, we struggle... and when we get into a must score quick situation, we look lost.

We have a run of difficult games coming up so it's not a good time to experiment, (especially considering that we are very good at what our identity says we are) but I would love to see us come out and go up tempo and aggressive with the downfield throws earlier in the game.


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I would be curios to know what the analytics say on on the "play it safe" strategy?

I'm not quite sure how 23 completions for 305 yards comes out to five yards a pass but maybe you have an explanation for that?


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He is talking about air yards. You have to take out yards after catch. Not sure if the 5 yards per throw is accurate.


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The thing that continues to bother me is Stefanski passing on points early in the game. If he kicks the FG when OBJ dropped the pass on 4th and 2 then at the end of the game the Browns only need a FG to win the game instead of a touchdown. Not saying they could have gotten the yardage with that horrible play calling at the end but it's got to be easier.

Secondary looked clueless at times so they have to clean that up with the newer guys.

A tough loss when you score 42 on the road. Oh well - on to next week.


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"Air yards"... the distance that the pass spent in the air. I mentioned air yards at the beginning of that sentence but wasn't specific when reciting the stat.


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After taking another look at his post I see what you mean. Thanks.


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It was from Jason Lloyd at The Athletic:

Quote:
But his aDOT (average depth of target) on the day, before the last three throws, was just 5.2 yards. That means he was throwing the ball, on average, only 5 yards down the field. He made some great throws — the pass that David Njoku turned into a long touchdown run was a terrific strike — but most of the play calling Sunday was extremely conservative. Even at the very end.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I would be curios to know what the analytics say on on the "play it safe" strategy?

I'm not quite sure how 23 completions for 305 yards comes out to five yards a pass but maybe you have an explanation for that?

Thing is, Stefanski isn't a "play it safe" kind of guy. He has gone for it more on 4th down than any coach I can remember, even in questionable down and distance situations when the FG would have been fine and was right there for the taking..

to his credit, he has designed an offense that works fantastic for the personnel we have and is good enough to beat most teams.. but when we do find ourselves behind, it's like we can't just flip the switch into aggressive offense mode. The playcalling becomes questionable, the execution is questionable.. we look like Georgia Tech or Navy trying to conduct a pass-first 2 minute offense.. and it's ugly.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
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guys, we just need to get healthy. get our OTs and jarvis back, get Clowney and ward back, and we're good to go.

Generally I agree with you but the injuries to the secondary is becoming a problem. We battled them all year last year and it has started again this year. We can't expect to remain competitive with 3 or 4 starting DBs out on a rotating basis. No team is deep enough to be able to do that.


i agree, but the reason im hopeful is because its at least happening earlier in whats gonna be a long season. we got plenty of time to get healthy and gain the chemistry.


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DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 42 Chargers 47 Postgame Thoughts

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