DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid... still... p7

Old news really, published in August from results of a May and June "study" of 492 people lol.

Straight from the CDC site:

The findings in this report are subject to at least five limitations. First, reinfection was not confirmed through whole genome sequencing, which would be necessary to definitively prove that the reinfection was caused from a distinct virus relative to the first infection. Although in some cases the repeat positive test could be indicative of prolonged viral shedding or failure to clear the initial viral infection (9), given the time between initial and subsequent positive molecular tests among participants in this study, reinfection is the most likely explanation. Second, persons who have been vaccinated are possibly less likely to get tested. (possibly? )Therefore, the association of reinfection and lack of vaccination might be overestimated. Third, vaccine doses administered at federal or out-of-state sites are not typically entered in KYIR, so vaccination data are possibly missing for some persons in these analyses. (So, in other words, they have no idea if the "unvaccinated" were vaccinated or not lol) In addition, inconsistencies in name and date of birth between KYIR and NEDSS might limit ability to match the two databases. Because case investigations include questions regarding vaccination, and KYIR might be updated during the case investigation process, vaccination data might be more likely to be missing for controls. Thus, the OR might be even more favorable for vaccination. Fourth, although case-patients and controls were matched based on age, sex, and date of initial infection, other unknown confounders might be present. Finally, this is a retrospective study design using data from a single state during a 2-month period; therefore, these findings cannot be used to infer causation. Additional prospective studies with larger populations are warranted to support these findings.

This "study" amounted to pulling names out of a hat and comparing them to people who were confirmed to have Covid a second time (maybe, see "second" above) with no idea if the names pulled were ever even tested once they were vaccinated. Seems legit, right? Compare people that weren't tested for Covid to people that were? lmao. This "study" merely compared people by sex and age range.

And AGAIN... All these CDC studies only compare people within a short window of vaccination when ALL studies overseas indicate that prevoiusly infected have antibodies that continue to evolve and be much more effective at fighting variants -- even after a year.

Prior COVID-19 infection does not protect as well as vaccine against reinfection: CDC

CDC researchers looked at data collected from of over 7 thousand hospitalized adults

https://www.foxnews.com/health/prior-covid-19-infection-protect-vaccine-reinfection-cdc

And again, only people that are hospitalized.
Seems like the best way to dispel natural immunity would be with evidence of those who are mostly immune compromised in the first place.
And then use data that represents about 15% of all cases as a be all/ end all to the argument.

Doesn't that make sense in a couple ways (I'm just spitballing here so nobody has to go nuts replying to my post).

Hospitalized people will provide the most reliable stream of info. As has been mentioned, you can't totally rely on reporting from people who didn't seek treatment and/or testing. And (I'm really going out on a limb here as I don't know), aren't hospitalized people the ones that had the greater immune response? Isn't that what we're chasing in terms of immunity over the long term? Hospitalized folks aren't necessarily just the immunocompromised. Anecdotally, I've heard of plenty of people that were perfectly healthy until COVID nearly ended their time on Earth early.

When you are willing to anything to deny reality you can go to great lengths to do it. Most people understand that the goal here is to decrease deaths and hospitalizations. That is why they focus on it.

It does make sense in those ways, that's speaking to people who are obviously at the highest risk of infection, reinfection and death. Problem is you're taking a small fraction of those who have been infected and trying to extrapolate those numbers to an entire population... with a narrative: Vaccination is better than natural immunity. These studies come out with headlines that don't paint the whole picture and are used as part of the narrative.

Here's the real lesson to be learned from such a study, and what should be the headline: If you got Covid and had to be hospitalized -- you better get the vaccine.

Instead it's : Prior COVID-19 infection does not protect as well as vaccine against reinfection: CDC

And that headline; according to the rest of the planet, numerous studies with tens of thousands of verified subjects: is false. In most cases, subjects that are tested at least bi-weekly, so that dispels any notion that you need to only use people that have been hospitalized.

So, basically we have two criteria for any published info on the subject from our CDC... (1)Make sure the time frame corresponds to people who still have a strong protection from the vaccine, ie... those who are still within six months of vaccination. (2) Use only studies (at least the last two that they've cosigned) that compares people who have been hospitalized.

Does that really paint an accurate picture of Vaccination VS Natural Immunity?

I posted this earlier in the thread:

If the vaccine is better than natural immunity, then why is the number of reinfections lower than vaccination breakthrough cases?

You would have to compare the number of people who have had Covid to the number of people that have been vaccinated to know that.

Liberty does not grow on the end of a Drug makers whims!

100% correct. Completely pointless, but correct, nonetheless.

DC
continued from pure football:

Yes, job ads offer compensation, but forcing anyone to work when they don't for whatever reason, is tantamount to slavery. And like I said, I agree adults should be productive members of society. None of this has anything to do with Rodgers lying or mandating vaccinations. But I'm willing to have whatever conversation you want; slavery, covid vaccinations, forcing people to work, or the stupidity behind all the covid drama... anytime. But please don't convolute the argument with whataboutisms based on completely unrelated subjects and expect me to take it seriously. Not a knock on you, just the way it came across to me imho.

Vaccine my arse!

The Covid vaccine is only a shot, a Covid shot. Not a vaccine!

The Polio Vaccine prevents you from ever getting Polio. It's a vaccine!

The Flu shot prevents or lessens the Flu and you need it every year.

Same with the Covid shot!

You are ridiculous.

He is correct.

No, he's asinine, and so are you. People are dying and he wants to play semantics.

Sorry you are in denial of the truth. Maybe someday your blinders will fall off.

The polio vaccine was also originally given in, get this, 5 shots over the course of several years. And most of the upgraded vaccines as we advanced also required boosters. Just like they are doing Covid boosters now. Almost every vaccine takes several steps to get fully vaccinated.

He is correct, if you ignore the fact that almost every vaccine ever has also required several "boosters" to get fully vaccinated. It almost never happens in 1 shot and done. My kids get vaccine shots on a schedule, as do most kids growing up. They get the first one at 6 mo or whatever, and then one at 12 mo, and 24 mo, or something along those lines, but it's all stages of the same vaccine.

That's nice, but there is no evidence that any amount of boosters will make you fully vaccinated and impervious to covid. All evidence points to repeated shots similar to what we do for the flu. Because the virus is always mutating.

Well, bless your heart. You used a "that's nice, but" on cle23 with zero warning. Shameful.

Did you get the jab
Maybe you will answer
Always scared you are

J/C

This Covid is the big, bully brother of the common cold.

We haven't found a cure for the common cold, we won't find one for this.

Herd immunity? I think everybody on the planet has had at least 20 "colds" in their life. Why do we still get them just as we all have had the flu but can still contract that ailment?

The fact is it is fast to mutate. We are never going to get away from this. I have taken all 3 shots as recommended. I'll get a annual booster as I do for the flu, but I am done with masks. Screw masks. I have done all they ask, but I am not wearing masks anymore.

Covid has killed 5 million worldwide - and that number is most probably low. Calling it the big bully brother of the common cold is not really very accurate in any sense.

Maybe we will get there - treatment has reduced the death totals. Vaccines have reduced hospitalizations. Maybe one day it might be something like you said - but let's not try to re-write history just yet.

No fear, just rights.
My medical history is none of your business and is protected by law.
Want to know about my recent Colonoscopy? Thought not.
Bot that, son!

I don’t get your mask pushback. It’s such an easy measure of self protection. I’ll be wearing a KN95 in public for the foreseeable future. It’s the cheapest, easiest, least invasive way to stay safe. Added bonus is I won’t have to deal with having colds or the flu or any other airborne yuck.
You do you but I still don’t get it.

You give no thought to your immune system.
You weaken it.

The maskless are exposed to the junk in the air and develop immunity. Just like humans have been doing forever.

Anything you get exposed to in the future will be the first time you are exposed.

I think big bully brother to the flu would be a better fit.

Thank you Aaron Rodgers.

You sound just like the politicians you support. You get the vaccine and then publicly rail against it. If you hadn't gotten the vaccine you would be shouting it loudly. You're not fooling anyone.

Can you show me where I railed against getting the vaccine? Thought not.

Besides, seems to me it is a shot, like a Flu shot, not a vaccine at all. Like.....

Chickenpox (Varicella)
Diphtheria
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
HPV (Human Papillomavirus)
Measles
Meningococcal
Mumps
Pneumococcal
Polio (Poliomyelitis)
Rotavirus
Rubella (German Measles)
Shingles (Herpes Zoster)
Tetanus (Lockjaw)
Whooping Cough (Pertussis )

Yeah, I should take your word for the fact it isn't a vaccine rather than the health exerts. Where did you get your doctorate again?

Biden is trying to get every American vaccinated. You are railing against that effort. Is pointing out the obvious to you really needed?

what? my understanding is that it was one shot and there were 1.8 million children in the 2-year field trial. From that, only 1,000 kids actually contracted polio whereas... people are still getting at and transmitting coivid at 1000% higher ratios than the polio vaccine.

Also, it took them 30 years for to develop a vaccine for polio.

The covid shot is just an immunity booster similar to the flu shot... it is not a vaccine.

If the covid shot was a vaccine... it would be considered a colossal failure considering people need "booster" shots in just a few short months.

Some Are Claiming Covid-19 Vaccines Are Not Vaccines

Bruce Y. Lee



Writer Alex Berenson recently tweeted out the following about Covid-19 vaccines: “don’t think of it as a vaccine.”

OK, so how should one think about the Covid-19 vaccine then? As a turnip? As a cat wearing a bandana? Well, Berenson continued with, “Think of it as best-as a therapeutic with a limited window of efficacy and terrible side effect profile that must be dosed IN ADVANCE OF ILLNESS,” as you can see in following screen capture from @justin_hart:


The screen capture also shows that Twitter flagged Berenson’s tweet as misleading. But that’s not all. If you are looking for Berenson’s original tweet so that you can reply with “I am thinking about the vaccine as an armchair,” or something like that, you won’t be able to do so. That’s because Berenson’s account has apparently been suspended:


There’s one itty bitty problem with thinking of the vaccine as a therapeutic. It really isn’t a therapeutic. Typically, you’ll get a therapeutic after you already have a disease or disorder. The Merriam Webster dictionary defines a therapeutic as “of or relating to the treatment of disease or disorders by remedial agents or methods.”


No real medical expert has been telling people to wait until they have Covid-19 before they get the Covid-19 vaccine. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website says, “people with Covid-19 who have symptoms should wait to be vaccinated until they have recovered from their illness and have met the criteria for discontinuing isolation; those without symptoms should also wait until they meet the criteria before getting vaccinated.”


Rather than therapeutics, the Covid-19 vaccines are more like, let’s see, what word would describe something that stimulates your immune system so that it generates a response against the Covid-19 coronavirus? Hmmm, how about, let’s go out on a limb here, maybe, a vaccine?

The CDC defines a vaccine as, “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.” The Merriam Webster dictionary defines a vaccine as “a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease.” This is basically what the currently available Covid-19 vaccines are designed to do: stimulate your immune system so that it is ready to respond to the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in order to prevent Covid-19. The Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson COvid-19 vaccines get your cells to produce some of the spike proteins that stud the surface of the SARS-CoV-2. These spike proteins in turn trigger your immune system to say, “hey, you don’t belong here. Let’s set up defenses in case something that looks like you comes around.”


Telling people that the vaccines are something that they are not would be misinformation. Misinformation about the Covid-19 vaccines isn’t the same as misinformation about your pants, unless, of course, it’s something like “this live wolverine is a pair of pants. Why don’t you try them on for size?” Vaccine misinformation is potentially dangerous because it can adversely affect people’s health. Imagine someone being mistakenly convinced that the vaccine is a therapeutic and then choosing not to get vaccinated as a result. What if that person then ends up catching the Covid-19 coronavirus and dying because he or she did not have the protection against Covid-19 that the vaccine could have offered?

On his Substack site, it looks like Berenson has confirmed that the “don’t think of it as a vaccine” tweet helped lead to his suspension: “This was the tweet that did it. Entirely accurate. I can’t wait to hear what a jury will make of this. Meantime, guess you’ll be getting more Substacks.”

So for now at least, you may not see exchanges such as following any time soon:


That’s because Berenson’s account seems to be gone from the Twitter platform. In other words, don’t think of it as an active account.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...-alex-berensons-account/?sh=15f6dd415cec

So by strict definition it is a vaccine only you have to get it over and over again?

What about the people who think they are immune because they are vaccinated but end up catching Covid anyway?

What a mess.

You should be happy it is available.

Things would look much different if it were not.

Call it what you like.

Yep.

j/c:

German Newspaper Highlights “Unusually Large” Number of Soccer Players Who Have Collapsed Recently

https://summit.news/2021/11/09/germ...cer-players-who-have-collapsed-recently/

UCal football game canceled after 44 positive Covid tests… The team is 99% Vaccinated…

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaki...e-covid-tests-the-team-is-99-vaccinated/

Full story here:

'Ongoing failure': Berkeley Dept. of Public Health pans Cal football program's 'major COVID outbreak'

https://www.sfgate.com/collegesport...-outbreak-44-cases-berkeley-16608097.php