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QBs I’d take over Baker as of 11/15/21:

Patrick Mahomes
Kyler Murray

Aaron Rodgers
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert
Russell Wilson
Dak Prescott

Josh Allen
Tom Brady
Joe Burrow

Matt Stafford
Mac Jones
Justin Fields
Matt Ryan
Derek Carr
Ryan Tannehill

Teddy Bridgewater
Jalen Hurts
Carson Wentz

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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
What you think and what I think don't jive, Mr. Hater. Baker is top 5 in my book, and definitely no less than top ten. Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Baker, Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, Matt Stafford, Josh Allen, Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow is the order I grade your top list in, I wouldn't even bother with the last 4, they are all above average scrubs.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
QBs I’d take over Baker as of 11/15/21:

Patrick Mahomes
Kyler Murray

Aaron Rodgers
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert
Russell Wilson
Dak Prescott

Josh Allen
Tom Brady
Joe Burrow

Matt Stafford
Mac Jones
Justin Fields
Matt Ryan
Derek Carr
Ryan Tannehill

Teddy Bridgewater
Jalen Hurts
Carson Wentz

Well you wanted to take Mike White 2 weeks ago ... you didn't see him play, you saw his stat line.

I'd say that at this point you definitely don't qualify as fair and balanced regards to Baker. Do I need to go back and check to see if you had Sam Darnold on the list 2-3 weeks ago as well? Thankfully you aren't the GM on the Browns.


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Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by cfrs15
QBs I’d take over Baker as of 11/15/21:

Patrick Mahomes
Kyler Murray

Aaron Rodgers
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert
Russell Wilson
Dak Prescott

Josh Allen
Tom Brady
Joe Burrow

Matt Stafford
Mac Jones
Justin Fields
Matt Ryan
Derek Carr
Ryan Tannehill

Teddy Bridgewater
Jalen Hurts
Carson Wentz

Well you wanted to take Mike White 2 weeks ago ... you didn't see him play, you saw his stat line.

I'd say that at this point you definitely don't qualify as fair and balanced regards to Baker. Do I need to go back and check to see if you had Sam Darnold on the list 2-3 weeks ago as well? Thankfully you aren't the GM on the Browns.

I think you think that I think this is a serious exercise. I think that you don’t know when a joke hit you in the face.

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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
I’m starting to wonder if this will turn into a little game between the FO and Baker. Baker has already started saying “I’m beat up, we’ll see if I can go next week” stuff. Today, Stefanski says he “likes where he’s at” …

Baker knows he’s costing himself money right now. Maybe the FO wants him to continue playing because of that now.
Well, if that's the case, which I don't think it is, then he should be chomping at the bit to play against the Lions, not threatening to not play... they are near the bottom in yards and points allowed.. if there was a game where he could show out, this would be it.

Keeping it real for a moment, with him so banged up, we'll be better off with Keenum in this game I think. Imagine team management might think the same.


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I think you put too much effort and time into your list for it to be funny - I think you have to have a bias and a preset angst against Baker to put Mike White on the list and think it's funny, or clever. I think I read enough of your posts on Baker to place you in the "would prefer Baker fail so poster can be right, than to see Baker succeed" .


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Riz and others seem to relish in failure. Nothing is stated when Baker has a good game.

After a loss every post is about how Baker sucks. Baker lost the game. None stop on every topic like they can not wait to post about how Baker is so bad etc. etc.

Frankly, I do not understand not supporting the team and Baker. That type of fan I would never watch a game with - never.

I mean seriously why bother being a fan? If everything is all about how we will lose and this sucks. Go shovel snow you will at least get some execise.

I am a Browns fan. I don't care about any other team. I watch the Browns games hoping to see victory. Sure I am disappointed when we lose.

I will say when a player has a bad game or the coach was out coached. But I still support them. I know how hard it is to win.

I see quarterbacks like Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, chucking sky balls and praying for an answer. And never hear a peep. But if Baker throws a pick. He is the worse qb in football history.

Before Baker was drafted the Browns were hard to watch. Losing was an every week expectation. 500 play was an unreachable goal.

Baker gives us a chance to win. He is far from perfect. But I have news for the haters he is good enough to win a Super Bowl with. That is my goal.
If the team plays well. Baker has enough to win. I have seen him play at the highest level. I have seen him make throws as good as any quarterback.

Baker does not make the game plan or call the plays. He runs the plays that are called. He is dependent upon many to do their job.

Football is a team game with many elements that determine the outcome.

I cheer for the Browns and support them. I do not watch games hoping that certain players fail.


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Want to break my thinking on Baker down and just put it out there.

Is baker a franchise QB? Yes. A franchise QB is the face of the franchise and usually proven to be competent to better than average (not perfect) at the position.

Is Baker elite? No. He has shown many promising flashes but has been extremely inconsistent in his performances.

Is it the injuries? Yes and No. The injuries are real and to some degree they must be hampering the overall quality of his play. However, Baker has said they are not affecting his play, which is what he has to say to stay on the field but leaves us either taking his word or doubting his truthfulness.

Is it time to panic or move on from Baker? Hell no. First, do y'all forget what it was like looking for the guy for 20+ years? All the wasted draft capital for year after year of horrid QB play? We've seen he can be damn good; we just need it more consistently and we can work with that. We've seen that he excels in some situations and not in others. We can work with that via game planning/scheming. But overall, his ability to respond in highly adverse games is as suspect as it gets. Is this a confidence issue? A coaching issue? or a Baker issue? And can we work with it going forward? I think so, but really need more data to see the root cause.

How do we adjust this year? Assuming Baker is the only issue to fix, you have to cater to his strengths more. We know he can throw the intermediate and long ball well most of the time, and that the shorter field on PA dink and dunk is killing us. We stretched the field last year and our 50/50 mix of pass/run plays kept Ds honest, we should do more of that. Dumbing down the playbook and playing all out smash mouth basic ball is what we did last year to turn things around, so go back to the basics too. And we designed a nice variety of trick plays, focused on getting the ball out fast, and unleashed the players to play all out while keeping/holding each responsible for their own jobs. I don't see why that wouldn't work here and now, even actually thinking it's what we need to right the ship.

Should we draft another QB? Yes. We should always draft QBs if they are good value picks. I don't think we need to focus on replacing Baker and force the search by shipping him. He's the best we've had since the return. We should stick with him and let the FO draft potential starters in latter rounds or where the draft capital is most wisely spent on a QB. Do this with the idea that Baker is the guy until we have a better option ON the roster outperforming him. And if a generational talent like Manning comes along, you take them if you can. But they are rare, so the hot buckeyes QB of the year is probably not the best option. Just my 2 cents.


EDIT: I also think this is the way to land our own Herbert type QB of the future. When you have that guy on the team, then you deal Baker if needed, not before.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/16/21 12:07 PM.

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I think my outlook on the fQB question is very similar to yours. There are some on here who have a VERY short list of who can be considered a fQB. Limited only to a subset of HOF guys. That's neither realistic/helpful, nor is it true. The Flacco repsonse to that was spot on.

My definition of a fQB is very different from that... bar is much lower. Simply put, it's a guy you can win with, in that he doesn't hold the offense back. The QB still has to be 'good', but it highlights the fact that the QB position is different things to different teams. For some, the QB IS the offense... whereas for other teams like us, it's a bit more complicated than that.

That said, I think via that definition Baker IS our franchise QB, though I can certainly see why people would have arguments. The tough part with people's arguments would be what plan you have in place if he were to be gone. It's easy enough to simply say "he's not the guy, we gotta move on" like specific posters like to do... but then what? Baker is better than the vast majority of people we could get/draft, and we have nobody in the pipeline right now. This upcoming offseason is shaping up to be far more dramatic than I think anybody realized.


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Great post Oober. A lot of people need to change their underwear on the board.

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It sounds like you want to have an open relationship with Baker.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
I think my outlook on the fQB question is very similar to yours. There are some on here who have a VERY short list of who can be considered a fQB. Limited only to a subset of HOF guys. That's neither realistic/helpful, nor is it true. The Flacco repsonse to that was spot on.

My definition of a fQB is very different from that... bar is much lower. Simply put, it's a guy you can win with, in that he doesn't hold the offense back. The QB still has to be 'good', but it highlights the fact that the QB position is different things to different teams. For some, the QB IS the offense... whereas for other teams like us, it's a bit more complicated than that.

That said, I think via that definition Baker IS our franchise QB, though I can certainly see why people would have arguments. The tough part with people's arguments would be what plan you have in place if he were to be gone. It's easy enough to simply say "he's not the guy, we gotta move on" like specific posters like to do... but then what? Baker is better than the vast majority of people we could get/draft, and we have nobody in the pipeline right now. This upcoming offseason is shaping up to be far more dramatic than I think anybody realized.
This goes back to what I said in the thread. I think the term is actually meaningless from a football production standpoint. A “face of the franchise” is essentially marketing. That may be good or bad but is irrelevant to production. I agree that getting the guy and winning with the guy has a variety of variables that must work together to make the guy successful. Baker has been better than anybody we have had since 1999. Yes, he has had ups and downs but that does happen to the vast majority of QBs so it really, in and of itself, is not the problem. The injuries to Hunt and Chubb have played a big role as has, imo, the offensive scheming and lack of adjustments. That is on the coaching staff. Do I think Baker will become truly elite? Probably not. But we don’t need that necessarily. And I agree to draft a QB as having someone besides a retread in waiting is a good idea.

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I think you are correct that a few do have a bias against Baker. I do however think there are others that have a legitimate concern. I certainly have been a supporter of Bakers. I'm also one who is certainly hoping he succeeds. I have been however getting tired of every excuse made when Baker plays badly. I thought Bakers injury was a reason for some of his struggles. But many fans said no, it wasn't. Then we saw his performance in Cincy and he sure didn't seem like a QB being hampered by injury.

There's no real way to get around the legitimate concerns when it comes to Baker. Calling people bias and haters will not explain away what we've been seeing. Our O has scored less than 21 points in six of our games this season. Baker has days when he looks great. Last season he seemed to string those performances together in a meaningful way. That's not what we've been seeing this season. Maybe it does have something to do with the injury. But if that injury is bothering him to the point he looked like crap this week, it sure didn't seem to bother him last week. And nobody could possibly be hoping they're wrong about what they've been seeing any more than I am.


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For me, it's really starting to come down to 1 thing...

If a D is going to sell out to stop our run game, then our QB absolutely MUST make them pay. I have to watch the game again to make sure, but I think I saw the Patriots sell out vs the run and then straight up not get exploited for that. I need to confirm this is what I saw and start trying to see why. But, long story short, if a defense's gameplan is to take away our run game and plan on our QB not making them pay for it, then it becomes clearer where the problem might be.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I certainly have been a supporter of Bakers.

I think we all are. We all like a fresh loaf of sourdough or a nice brioche hamburger bun.

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There is no question that there have been games when he was bad.

The Pats game the whole team stunk. On defense we could not get off the field. So, offensive chances were limited.

The offensive scheme is based upon the run and play action off that. When we deviate; it appears things go wrong.

When the offense is in rhythm we play well. I wish I could put my finger on why the inconsistency.

One would think that when you can run the ball like we can that we would be consistent. It has not happened this year.

The second half of last season. The offense looked good. That is why it is so baffling. We have executed this offense well.

The loses this year. We gave up 33, 47, 37, 15, 45.

The Steeler loss was inexcusable.

I know the route trees are timed to the drop steps. When the receivers are not open. It goes sour fast. We are not an offense that runs three and four receiver sets where the quarterback sits in the pocket scans, and waits to hit the open guy. A good day passing is 200 to 250 yards. And we get another 150 yards running the ball. I am good with that.

It seems like a lot of the plays we ran last year like naked boots are gone. Baker can be deadly accurate. I have seen him connect and hardly miss a throw.

It is up to the KS and AVP to figure it out.

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I understand the defense has also been sporadic at best. Really no better than the offense in that regard. And I certainly do not hold the offense responsible for poor defensive performances. I pretty much have a standard that is equal for both sides of the ball. If the offense doesn't score at least somewhere between 21-24 points, I feel it is a failure on that units performance. I feel that if the defense gives up more than somewhere between 21 and 24 points it's a failure on the defensive unit. Those standards may not be the way most people see it and I can understand that.

It is certainly true that football is a team sport that relies on both sides of the ball to do their jobs. I could use examples of how the defense saved the O's ass by us winning the Falcons game scoring only 19 points. Or the Vikings game we won while only scoring 14 points. Or the Denver game where we only scored 17 points. Or I could point out that even the fact that the defense gave up 37 points against the Cardinals, it doesn't change the fact that the O only scored 14 points. But that would only detract from making each unit responsible for what they control.


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I think a lot of the offensive inconsistency can be directly attributed to the quality of the defenses that the team played against.

Worst games offensively:

1. Minnesota - very knowledgeable regarding Stefanski and scheme he runs.
2. Arizona - prior to this past week - one of the better Ds in the NFL and had Watt back then.
3. Pittsburgh - pretty good D, particularly against the run.
4. New England - good D. very good secondary and backers to lock down the very average Browns receivers. good against the run. very disciplined and adjust to take away what opponent does well offensively.

Have to game plan better...

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This is basically where I'm at. I'm struggling to throw any 'hot takes' out there and point fingers at anyone because it was all just so bad. Not gonna win giving up 45, and also not going to win only scoring 7. STs was alright (?). Certainly not any 1 thing or even 1 unit that you can put at the top of list of reasons we lost.


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It's definitely difficult to come here and read the negativity. I get tired of reading the same things over and over and some of them simply aren't true.

I hate losing as well.

Baker isn't going anywhere. There isn't a quarterback not named Mahomes that I do not want over Baker. I firmly believe that this organization is 100% behind Baker and we have no intentions of moving on from him.

I do think Baker has played poorly at times. But he's also been phenomenal. I HATE reading and continually having to defending Baker can't carry a team when he absolutely already has.

There are things that guy has done that quarterbacks like Goff, Bridgewater, Keenum, Darnold, Tannehill, or even Burrow can't or haven't done. I may be alone, but he CAN be ELITE!

I'm 100% riding with 6. We haven't come close to seeing his ceiling. Game managers don't have have rocket arms, so stop that nonsense right now.

I'm not making excuses, Baker has played poorly, but I was wrong on OBJ, he wasn't who I thought he was. And our pass catchers are some of the worst in the league. I do believe DPJ is close, he can be a star, but Schwartz has been underwhelming (but he's a rookie!) and don't get me started on Jarvis.

Do those who criticize Baker, did they do the same with Kosar back in the day? Because Baker is better. Kosar never won for Cleveland. And if you weren't around back in the day, how in the heck after the past 25 years want to get rid of the best guy we've had at QB after suffering thru years and years of losing and crap QB play? It's almost disgusting and embarrassing.

Baker will be fine. Baker can win a Super Bowl. Baker WILL win us a Super Bowl. Do not loathe him. Support him.

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Originally Posted by devicedawg
There isn't a quarterback not named Mahomes that I do not want over Baker.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by devicedawg
There isn't a quarterback not named Mahomes that I do not want over Baker.

What a ridiculous thing to say.


Not really.

How soon some will forget we were 1-31 then Baker came and changed everything.

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""How soon some will forget we were 1-31 then Baker came and changed everything.""

Are you trying to suggest any average NFL QB couldn't have done the same thing? Especially with such talent as Perriman and Calloway as our WRs (along with Landry)? Not forgetting Ratley, Higgins and Willies of course ....

My list of players I's swap Baker for is a bit longer than yours. Ignoring the QB's like Rodgers and Brady who have 1 or 2 more elite years and focusing on young studs: Allen, Murray, Herbert and Burrows are all viable franchise studs in the making. I'm happy to ride with Baker and believe what we saw the last 1/2 of last year is who he is with potential to be even better. But I also believe there are others in the NFL with similar ability and ceilings.


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Originally Posted by devicedawg
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by devicedawg
There isn't a quarterback not named Mahomes that I do not want over Baker.

What a ridiculous thing to say.


Not really.

How soon some will forget we were 1-31 then Baker came and changed everything.

Settling for mediocrity because you used to be terrible does not seem wise.

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I am so torn regarding Baker. He would not have been my choice to draft that year just because I thought he was cocky with no reason to be (Buckeye fan and hated the flag plant) but I am not a talent evaluator. I leave that for you guys with actual football experience. I have been to a few games and talked to area coaches but most of what I know iis from 51 years of studying TV and reading. Once we drafted him I was in full support.

I think he has exceeded my expectations because of our poor performance before he arrived but my biggest issue is he seems like 2 different players.

Case in point the last 2 games. I watched him play extremely well against the Bengals. 3 throws in particular stand out. The deep ball to DPJ, the touchdown to Njoku & the best I thought was the pass to the sideline to Harrison. He placed that over the defender so only Harrison could catch it.

He also looked spot on the first drive last Sunday. Then the offense just died. I really don't know what to think. I love his intensity and competitiveness. His arm strength is way more than sufficient.

I really hope he gains consistency and stays a long time but he has my support. I also don't want to go through a QB search again.

Just my 2 cents.

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Valid and understandable.

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I think that Baker is a talented kid, with major injuries that have thrown him for a loop.

Shoulder muscles torn ....... injured knee, and now an injured foot. That all has to take a toll, especially against a Belichick coached team.

Our WR are not consistently getting open, and when they do, Baker is missing. I have seen him miss throws over the past month or so that I have seen him make many times before. I think there are some throws that he double clutched because he's not sure he can get enough on the throws.

The OL is performing about as well as can be expected with a beat up Wills at LT, and a Guard playing RT.

RB has been a nightmare. Take out Chubb, Hunt, and Felton, and you take out about half the offense.

The defense is a major nightmare. They go from being a nightmare for the opposing offense, to a nightmare for our team. They are even more up and down than the offense.

One of the most disappointing things in the last game was that almost every defensive starter played. No excuse for a lack of talent, or the lack of effort I saw on some (many) plays.

I think that there are some correctable things, and some that are going to take time to heal. I think the bye will be very interesting.

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This comparison of Baker to Jim McMahon is pretty good. At least for who Baker seems to be right now.



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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by devicedawg
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by devicedawg
There isn't a quarterback not named Mahomes that I do not want over Baker.

What a ridiculous thing to say.


Not really.

How soon some will forget we were 1-31 then Baker came and changed everything.

Settling for mediocrity because you used to be terrible does not seem wise.



There's no settling for mediocrity. I don't believe another drafted QB would have gotten the Browns this far. The Patriots defense has made many quarterbacks look foolish. Brady and Herbert included. Their defenses were actually able to stop the opposing team, ours didn't.

I also don't believe a different quarterback would have us with any better record than we have now.

We do not have good pass catchers.

There are actual real problems on this team and QB isn't one of them. Baker is not mediocre. He's much much better than that. I'm not worried about him.....yet.

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That was a little gas lighting from crfs - no-one who believes in Baker is accepting mediocrity.

When you wrote 'we don't have good pass catchers' ... it made me think. We do have good pass catchers. Occasionally. The issue is consistency.

I'm giving Landry a pass the last two games - he, like Baker has most definitely been hurt and it has influenced his play. It's the ONLY time in a Browns uni that he has avoided contact with a DB and stepped out of bounds. While I know you don't rate him at $15M per year - he's been the best WR the Browns have had since he arrived and he (pre-injury) bled for the Browns and played tough for the Browns and caught (virtually) everything.

The rest of the group - TE's and WR's - have all been somewhat inconsistent, or very inconsistent. Njoku looked to have turned the corner on that, but the last 2 - 3 games has dropped balls and reverted back to what we saw rookie year. Hooper and Bryant are probably the next most reliable options after Landry. I like them both, but they are not Waller, Kittle, Kelce types and you can't run your offense through solid but unspectacular athletes. Higgins had some chemistry with Baker but for some unknown reason he has not thrived or been included much in the KS offense. Receiver is a position Berry very much has gone against the grain of the NFL and decided not to invest high draft capital into. . . the result is showing. I think he needs to change his stance.


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IMO Berry and Stefanski along with AVP believe in Baker.

The options mentioned I don't think are real. If they really are would I look at Wilson? Sure I would.

Rodgers? I don't believe he is an option. Watson? That picture is so clouded. Until what is now unknown becomes known. You can't even go there.

Baker is good enough to win with. He has shown enough IMO to prove that.

Has there been inconsistencies? Yes. If McMahon, Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco can win a Super Bowl. So can Baker.

It is so hard to find a quarterback and develop them. Look at all the draft picks that have come into the league with high praise. Can't miss guys who failed.

One year wonders. The position is so dependent upon others. The skill level to be great is so hard to achieve.

Of all the teams the Browns should know better than anyone.

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IMO Berry and Stefanski along with AVP believe in Baker.

Completely disagree. If they did, he would have been extended. He is not and they, so far, are smarter as a result. This is not to say they want to move on, but they clearly needed more from him to "believe". They are not getting what they wanted to see from Baker so far to justify franchise QB money. None of us are, really.


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This situation seems to be very similar to the one the Rams had with Goff. Baker has been able to get us to a certain point but another QB might be able to take us to an even better place. If you can upgrade at the position you have to pull the trigger. With that said there likely won’t be an upgrade available so Baker is likely the guy for one more year.

The only guys that might be available that are clear upgrades are Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and DeShaun Watson. Obviously I would take all three over Baker but the compensation required to get them would make it a tough pill to swallow given their baggage (Watson) or age (Rodgers). I’d give up the farm for Russell Wilson but I don’t see how this situation would be better than Seattle.

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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
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IMO Berry and Stefanski along with AVP believe in Baker.

Completely disagree. If they did, he would have been extended. He is not and they, so far, are smarter as a result. This is not to say they want to move on, but they clearly needed more from him to "believe". They are not getting what they wanted to see from Baker so far to justify franchise QB money. None of us are, really.

And they don’t want to be stuck with an onerous contract like the Eagles and Rams were.

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Are there 'reasons' for a decline in Mayfield's play?

Many prefer to ignore the possibility of there being 'reasons' that might have contributed to the poor play at the QB position. But when a franchise has their rabbit ears on, listening to folks who do not have a clue as to what legitimate 'reasons' might have contributed to the poor play...getting another QB thinking that will solve the issue of poor offensive play might be in for a surprise.

If the 'reasons' for the Browns poor offensive performance are not addressed, the next QB is going to be forced to deal with the very same reasons that Mayfield faced. If the Cleveland franchise is willing to make some changes in an effort to eliminate the reasons for the Browns poor offensive performance in 2021, why not make those same changes to improve the performance of the Browns offense in 2022?

There are reasons for the Browns poor offensive performance and they need addressed asap!




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Is it a decline (can we call it that)? Not sure if it's a positive or a negative, but Mayfield has been more up-and-down over his career so far, with no real discernable trend. Again, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad.

I'm not giving my ultimate opinion one way or the other. I'm at a loss at how Mayfield (and the offense and whole team) can look unbeatable vs a very good Cinci team and then look like they're going to hand Detroit their first win the next week. I have absolutely no explanation for that.


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I think it's easy to guess how much a coaching staff and organization "believes" in a player. Most organizations wouldn't publicly state they don't believe in their players. Especially at the QB position. At this point in time, is there actually another QB on the roster that has more legitimate talent than Baker? So who else are they going to "believe" in?

Where you actually find out whether, or how much they "believe" in their QB is when the rubber meets the road. Contract time. By seasons end and most certainly during the off season we will find out just how much they believe in Baker. They will either show their confidence in him by offering him a legitimate franchise QB contract extension, pick up his fifth year option or give him a low ball extension offer. If you actually believe you have the QB of the future, you want to show him your loyalty and get him locked up long term. You offer to pay him the big bucks.

If all you do is pick up his fifth year option it makes it clear you need to see more before you make your final decision. If you give him a low ball offer it means you're really not concerned if he goes elsewhere, you upset the apple cart in the two sides getting along and means the future at the QB position is very much up in the air.

What I try to keep in mind at all times is that an NFL team is a corporation. They do not want dirty laundry aired. They want to put forth an image that everything is great and they are a cohesive unit. Public perception is very important to the bottom line. It's why fans are often surprised by players who get cut or never get a contract extension. It's because sometimes we just never see it coming.

It's like Myles speaking out of school. Most of us agree with what he said. Yet nobody in this organization other than maybe some of the players wanted that statement to be made in public. It shows cracks between the team and the coaching staff. It shows there is a division. No NFL team wants things like that made public and players shouldn't be making them public. It's not professional.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Keeping Baker is a no brainer at this point. First, the franchise QB's mentioned in these posts would never consider coming to Cleveland due to the head coach and scheme that he runs. Rodgers, Wilson, or Watson are not going to leave their current situation to come to a team where their main duty is to hand off the ball 60% of the time. None of the 3 are going to accept throwing 20 passes a game while watching the defense surrender 30 plus points! These QB's depend on rhythm and timing and you don't establish that throwing the ball for 200 yds with 20 passes spread sporadically throughout the game. Your receivers are not involved, timing is a joke, and not having a go to guy just solidifies none of them coming here. The vast majority of the teams in the NFL use the pass to set up the run. Cleveland is just the opposite. Those franchise QB's not only make opposing offenses play straight up, they burn them when they don't. If you try to play 6 DB's against them they will punish you with the run. If you try to play single safety they will punish you with crossing routes and the long ball. These guys would never consider coming to Cleveland with the scheme the Browns currently run.

Now Minnesota runs a similar type offense and they win games but not championships. The Browns are going to win games but the issue is becoming more prevalent each week - stack the box to stop the run and force the Browns to beat you through the air. In Baker, the Browns have developed a pretty good game manager who completes a lot of passes that really are nothing more than an extension of the run game (dink and dunks). Baker is currently a shell of the player the Browns drafted because he's become a game manager instead of the gunslinger they drafted. The biggest problem I see is two-fold - first, if your not practicing a pass centric offense and fierce 2-minute drill then you are unprepared to turn it on when needed and two, the inability of Stefanski to make game time adjustments depending on what the other team is doing to you. However, if your not practicing the adjustments, then there's nothing to adjust too.

Baker will be fine when Stefanski learns how to coach a complete team. Look, when your defense surrenders 21 points in the first quarter and your offense comes out and has a 3 and out with 2 runs and a dink pass you are a very unprepared team. You have to be able to adjust your team to the situation facing you and that doesn't mean sticking to a game plan where the opponent has practiced all week to stop.

The Browns need an offensive coordinator to run the offense and get Stefanski back to managing the team in the Head Coach capacity. The change needed here is the scheme and until that happens the Browns will continue to have those stinker games like they did against the Pats. They've given away 4 games so far and laid a stinker in another for 5 losses that shouldn't have been but unless there's a change, expect more of the same the rest of the year and beyond.


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I agree with you wholeheartedly on your first point. If there's anything the last couple weeks has shown about this team, it's that they are willing to pay for a guy that they see as "core". They got the guards locked down, and they got Chubb locked down before that.

What muddies the water a bit is that while they haven't seemed to move on Baker's extension, they also haven't done anything to prepare for his exit. They either needed to start grooming a guy yesterday, or have been accumulating draft assets to jump up or use to pry a vet away from a team. As far as we know, they've done none of that. Not saying they need to get a guy now, I'm just saying that you start walking the path to your new fQB long before he ends up on the roster.


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