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Listened to AVP this morning.

He said Baker looked good at practice yesterday. Feels like he is coming around.

It will help that Conklin and Hunt will play. DPJ is also likely to play. So, this maybe the healthiest we have been in sometime.

If we are going to accomplish much this year. It begins Sunday night.

We have to be able to beat teams that will compete in the playoffs. If not we do not belong.

The Ravens are a team we have to take down. They are a well coached team that plays hard tough football. They find a way to win close games.
Lamar has been a thorn against us. We must play clean football. Eliminate penalty's. Win the turnovers. Make the plays that are there to be made.

Baker needs a to play well. He is well aware of it. He has to make accurate throws to guys who are open.

The goals for this season lie right in front of us.

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Good post Bone and I agree with you but we have to hope Baker doesn't take any hard hits. If he does the accuracy issues may crop up again as in previous games and you know the Ravens are just itching to give him a good shot.

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Originally Posted by eotab
Baker sucks get rid of him after all I truly miss picking early in the draft

Who has said that?


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Originally Posted by mac
bone...honestly, the fans don't know how badly Mayfield's injuries might be or as you point out, how injuries might be altering his throwing motion and accuracy. Most fans simply view the end product..if a pass is complete or not.

Shoulder injuries, elbow injuries, knee injuries, foot injuries, toe injuries...all can alter a QBs ability to deliver an accurate pass. Hopefully the Browns will "protect" their QB against the Rats

I don't think anyone has. I do think people are questioning that if he's hurt so badly he can't perform on the field, then why in the hell is he playing? If they're seeing in practice what we've witnessed the past two Sundays, why is he starting?

So either he isn't as badly hurt as some fans think or they're starting a QB that shouldn't be playing. You can decide for yourself what you believe. I for one won't pretend to know which one it is since I'm not being given any inside information by the team and am not attending practices. Hopefully we're not being fed a bill of goods this week about how much better Baker is doing in practice and we will see "good Baker" against the Ravens.

Pretending to know one way or the other how badly Baker is injured and trying to play that up when you don't know any more about it than I or anyone else does is what some people find so hard to believe.


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So you're saying you don't know the details. But you are saying that you know it can only be one of two options? Hmmmmm.


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I don't think anyone has. I do think people are questioning that if he's hurt so badly he can't perform on the field, then why in the hell is he playing? If they're seeing in practice what we've witnessed the past two Sundays, why is he starting?

Pit...seems to me that those decisions about which QB plays...a 60% Mayfield or a 100% Keenum...it's a decision that Stefanski and Van Pelt will make based on what they see each QB do in practice this week and what the doctors advise.


Quote
Pretending to know one way or the other how badly Baker is injured and trying to play that up when you don't know any more about it than I or anyone else does is what some people find so hard to believe.

Pit...Bone and I were simply discussing how injuries can affect a baseball pitcher's throwing motion and how it might affect accuracy. Some of the same factors that might affect a pitcher's accuracy could also apply to a QB.


Quote
Pretending to know one way or the other how badly Baker is injured and trying to play that up when you don't know any more about it than I or anyone else does is what some people find so hard to believe.

pit....IMO, you do seem to be locked in on how badly you believe Baker is hurt.

Baker has been wearing a harness to protect his left shoulder for a few weeks now... does the harness affect his accuracy..?




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Mayfield has battled his share of injuries, from his shoulder to his foot to his knee to his groin. But his knee is better, his shoulder fracture has healed and his heel bruise has improved.

As one source said, he's feeling as good as he has in a month. Another source described him as having no limitations.

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Good news, for sure.

Hopefully we can establish the run so the play-action pass can produce some good yardage.




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Originally Posted by mgh888
So you're saying you don't know the details. But you are saying that you know it can only be one of two options? Hmmmmm.

Would you like to entertain a third option? These are the two options we've seen on the board for weeks now. If you have a third option please let us know.


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I have no idea how badly Baker is hurt. Neither does anyone else on this board actually. We know the PR the team puts out and that is all. I made that quite clear. He sure did a pretty good job sprinting down the field to celebrate that TD with Chubb. Let's just all hope he's healed up enough to look like good Baker today the way the team has told us he has.


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What could have changed between this week and last week?

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HGH

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Originally Posted by Hammer
HGH

Why didn’t they start in earlier?

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
What could have changed between this week and last week?

I would say having the heel injury probably effected him the most. Hard planting your foot, if your heal is hurting. I also think the knee injury, I think it was a cut, is probably healing up too. I hope he starts playing better real soon. This is the time of the year to make or break a career.


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All of Baker’s exes going to to LA.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by mac
bone...honestly, the fans don't know how badly Mayfield's injuries might be or as you point out, how injuries might be altering his throwing motion and accuracy. Most fans simply view the end product..if a pass is complete or not.

Shoulder injuries, elbow injuries, knee injuries, foot injuries, toe injuries...all can alter a QBs ability to deliver an accurate pass. Hopefully the Browns will "protect" their QB against the Rats

I don't think anyone has. I do think people are questioning that if he's hurt so badly he can't perform on the field, then why in the hell is he playing? If they're seeing in practice what we've witnessed the past two Sundays, why is he starting?

So either he isn't as badly hurt as some fans think or they're starting a QB that shouldn't be playing. You can decide for yourself what you believe.

I for one won't pretend to know which one it is since I'm not being given any inside information by the team and am not attending practices. Hopefully we're not being fed a bill of goods this week about how much better Baker is doing in practice and we will see "good Baker" against the Ravens.

Pretending to know one way or the other
how badly Baker is injured and trying to play that up when you don't know any more about it than I or anyone else does is what some people find so hard to believe.

We can spend all day taking things out of context(s) or re-defining realities, but at the end of the day what would it leave.
Finding a way to beat the Ravens in the game tonight, game #1 against them in 2021, and at the end of the day the Browns won't have won anything or clinched anything,
"On to the Ravens, .. Forget the Ravens, On to the Ravens. (only in Cleveland; haHA!)

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End of the day, Baker is a better than any QB we've had for years. Haters need to stop. Coach needs to unleash them.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/28/21 08:30 PM.

Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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i thought the wrs. dropped more balls than ever


I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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Originally Posted by lionchamp29
i thought the wrs. dropped more balls than ever

This is a real problem, probably our biggest. Baker's playing like crap, Stefanski is one head scratching decision
after another, and our D seems to have a play or 2 every game where a receiver makes a huge catch with no one
visible anywhere near him on the TV screen

BUT.....we are 4-5 dropped passes away from being 3-0 in the division. Passes that absolutely should have been
caught.


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What we do know is that this year's team isn't getting it done and it is probably too late to do much about it.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Between the amount and nature of injuries, I think I agree with you. Unless we're waiting to unleash Case Keenum until we 'see the whites of their eyes', then I think our goose is cooked.

The first thing I thought near the end of of the game was that I need to watch the all22 when it gets posted up. If WRs are getting open at all, then I should see that in the Ravens game. There were so many black jerseys always hovering around the LOS it was incredible. I'm trying to remain in Baker's corner, so if the WRs couldn't get open in that game, then it's not happening at all.


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We've lost 4 games by 6 points or less 2 of which we scored 29 and 42 points. With any O at all we would have won the Steelers and Ravens game which would make us 8-4. We're not far off at all. If we played any D at all we would have won the Chargers game. Again we're close but naturally it doesn't help where we are now.

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Baker Mayfield is being held by back by two things right now: Injuries and Kevin Stefanski. Unless Stefanski is removed as the play caller, Mayfield might as well play somewhere else if he wants to realize his full potential. I'm hoping Andrew Berry realizes this and makes the correct decision regarding the head coach. He simply CANNOT let this continue past this season. I'm fine with Stefanski being let go IF he refuses to give up the play calling duties. I think we've all seen enough of this offense. It's NOT getting the job done. Period.


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I'd agree with you, but are the injuries making him hold the ball too long and do his double-clutching? I've said it before, he's also not seen wide open receivers in front of him.

Sorry for the snark, but he hasn't been listed for a head injury this season, and that seems to be the root of his issues this season.


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Baker is Tim Couch 2.0 he and his supporters make everybody look bad.

We don't need this, team is bigger than just one player, we have been here before, we know what is the problem.

We are now questioning everything, locker room is not happy, everybody is questioning their decisions to be here, just because of one player.... C'mon.

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Let's look at the list....

It was OBJ's fault. It was the OL's fault. It's Stefanski's fault.

I will say Baker didn't look like he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn for the most part like he sometimes did last week.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Let's look at the list....

It was OBJ's fault. It was the OL's fault. It's Stefanski's fault.

I will say Baker didn't look like he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn for the most part like he sometimes did last week.

You didn't mention the multiple injuries? And - once more because you ignorantly refuse to acknowledge - NO_ONE ever said it was all OBJ, or it was all the OL or it was all Stefanski and none of Baker's struggles were on Baker. No-One. But you are clearly obsessed with creating a fake argument that people aren't saying and responding to it.

In answer to your reply to me early - there are definitely other options and issues than the two you suggested: You suggested either Baker wasn't as badly hurt as he claims (eg he's faking it) = or = KS is rolling him out there when he shouldn't.

There are a lot of other viable possible issues and options at play.

I don't believe Baker is faking anything. Other posters have gone to great lengths to explain how an injury can be a non factor during the week of training and then get aggravated or be worse during a game. It's also entirely possible that KS knows how badly Baker is hurt and still thinks that a 65% Baker gives the Browns a better chance to win than a 100% Keenum. And there are shades of grey in between all these scenarios.

As of right now - I'd say last weeks game that you couldn't help but refer to, was Baker's worst game as a Brown. Yesterday's loss to the Ravens might be - no it is - the worst coached game I have seen with KS as head coach. . . .

- the play calling was bad. They even ran the same play (with "variations") three times in a row. Even factoring in the variations - that is BAD.
- They had 12 men on the field - didn't need to take a time out as the rules allowed them time for a sub .. he BLEW a time out. AND then we had 12 men on the field after the time out.
- The Landry gadget play was like watching a Kitchen's play.
- We ran the ball way too few times. If we are a running team you have to keep running it - Chubb and Hunt are good enough to eventually break one. KS has shown throughout his entire time in CLE - a propensity to abandon what we are best at.
- We rushed Conklin back and now he's out probably for the season. I have no idea if the two things are related - but we sure as hell have a tendency to

If it was me I would have rested Baker and let him heal 2 or 3 games ago, given him a month off to get healthy.

As I have said before - I think Baker is the guy we saw in the last 9 games of last season - and the first 2 uninjured games this year. PFF had him as a top 3 QB.

I think what we see now is an injured Baker trying to gut through it - with a WR core that is in the bottom 3 or 4 in the NFL. In a scheme that doesn't get receivers separation and when the run game is off an when we are behind the scheme is hopeless and won't allow the team to get chunks of yardage.

Feel free to disagree but please end the false narrative that posters are blaming everything on one issue and are claiming Baker hasn't played badly.


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I never insinuated Baker was faking anything. Make things up much? What I'm saying is the medical staff, Baker and the HC all say he's ready to play. They all seem to think he's a better option than Keenum. What we hear from some of the fans is that he's so banged up he can barely play. I think the only people that are exaggerating Baker's injuries are those making every possible excuse for Baker.

Baker threw for under 50% yesterday. Nobody throws the ball but Baker. And let's look at that "horrible coaching" shall we? Baltimore was loading 7 and 8 men in the box. Your suggestion is we should continue to run when they stack the box against us? It's some of the fans contention that we shouldn't use three TE sets to help block those 7 and 8 men fronts to help protect Baker and use them for short routes so Baker can get rid of the ball quick? You have truly missed your calling.

We rushed Conklin back? So his knee is connected to his elbow? Come on man. Those two injuries have nothing to do with each other. What you have done is found a few isolated plays and penalties to try and hide the fact Baker couldn't even complete 50% of his passes. One has nothing to do with the other.


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General reply (and slightly off-topic)...

Can we talk about the QB sneak with a QB sporting

a fractured/torn shoulder
bum ankle
hurt groin
I think there was a knee (?) as well


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Supposedly from what we were told some of these issues were no longer plaguing Baker and he looked great in practice this week. At least that was the PR statement coming from the team.


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Do you buy that PR statement at face value? There are requirements on disclosing injuries, but beyond that it's 100% gamesmanship.


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Maybe I am reading things into your comments that aren't there and not intended. But they all seem to be overly negative regards Baker. They all seem to zero in on what posters say about Baker and factors and influences that may be impacting his play beyond his simple ability level -- and you focus on those "excuses" almost exclusively rather than giving us your take on Baker. The two examples that stand out:

Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So either he isn't as badly hurt as some fans think or they're starting a QB that shouldn't be playing.

When I read that - it sounded like somehow Baker might be faking his injuries and some fans are being duped.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Let's look at the list....

It was OBJ's fault. It was the OL's fault. It's Stefanski's fault.

This reads like posters keep changing the narrative about why Baker has struggled. It reads like posters are denying Baker has played bad. That posters are saying it's everyone else's fault but Bakers. Again - if that's not your intent, my apologies but heard not to read it like that with everything you have posted which seems all negative.

I've spelt out my position. I think there are a lot of variables impacting Baker's play - and they it's like a multiplier effect. And for dang sure - if Baker's accuracy is being impacted by injury AND the receivers are not getting hardly any separation it's a problem.

Bottom line - do you think Baker somehow got lucky for 9 games last year and two games this year pre-injury? Was that just a fluke streak? Did he strike lightning in a bottle with 21 passes completed in a row (one throw away)? To use your line on Stefanski - did Baker forget how to throw? .... Obviously all any of us have is an opinion, but do you think Baker is done? Is his ceiling what we see that last 5-6 games? Is it the last 9 games of last year? .... or do you want to bash other posters opinions but then simply say "I don't know" when it comes time to actually convey your feelings and thoughts?


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Supposedly from what we were told some of these issues were no longer plaguing Baker and he looked great in practice this week. At least that was the PR statement coming from the team.


I saw him limping badly after a scramble last night.... dude at best is 70%


<><

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Again, keep in mind who you are talking to.

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I think people believe the NFL is somewhat linear. That one season's success will lead to continued success. But it's the ultimate chess game with a ton of variables. That's why consistency is such a big deal in the NFL. Thats why level of comp is such a big deal. This year the comp stepped up their chess game and Baker and Stefanski are getting caught playing checkers.

Who is Baker? In four years, he's never strung two good seasons together. He's only had one really strong season, his rookie year. Both years he had expectations he has crashed and burned badly. He struggles to beat good teams and rarely plays well from behind. He's sensitive which makes me believe he's mentally fragile (he consistently has issues with the media).

I don't know how much of this is Stefanski this year but either Stefanski has a much bigger ego than any of us know or he doesn't trust his QB to make calls at the line to get his team into good plays. Which one of those is more plausible?

The amount of data that leads you to believe Baker is at best even an average QB way trumps the amount that says he's a good QB, especially when you consider his best season, his rookie year, he was playing with house money.

I don't like the direction he's going.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
That's why consistency is such a big deal in the NFL.

Who is Baker? In four years, he's never strung two good seasons together.

Yes - consistency is UBER important. You are 100% correct. That's why having 4 head coaches in 3 years is an issue. It's why 4 offensive coordinators in 3 years is an issue. It's why not having any first team reps before your first game is an issue. It's why not having the same scheme / playbook until your 4th year is an issue. And if Baker and Stefanski are playing checkers - Hue and Kitchens were playing pin the tail on the donkey at Kindergarten. Consistency is not having a torn Labarum and a broken bone in your none throwing arm .. and that's why it's important.

As I've said elsewhere - you can choose to look at injured Baker's performance and decide his ceiling is a below average QB in the NFL if you want. You can look at his times with Kitchens playing loosey goosey and running plays never practiced in the week and decide that's the 'real' Baker. You can look at the start of last season with his 4th HC,, 4th OC and a QB coach changing his footwork and mechanics (and with 2 torrential rain games with 40+ mph winds) and decide that's who the real Baker is.... I think his CEILING is much more likely to be the 9 games from last year when he played lights out. The ceiling is more likely the elite arm talent we saw flashed his rookie year setting an NFL record in only 13 starts or whatever it was.


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What is Baker supposed to do when our run game is stopped and our WRs cant get open. He's doomed.


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BUT.....we are 4-5 dropped passes away from being 3-0 in the division. Passes that absolutely should have been
caught.


banghead flamingmad banghead flamingmad banghead


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
What we do know is that this year's team isn't getting it done and it is probably too late to do much about it.
The Browns are 6-6.

I think the Recipe, is to keep as much of this team together as possible, don't change a whole lot, and find out...
this is the hard part, I think, but,
find out...

Find out, what the heck, this Browns team is, as an identity, and how they win, the games they win.

1. Keep the team together.
2. Find out what their identity is.
3. Make it execute at a faster, more evolve-able pace.

They've tried everything else, ("except exercise and eating right").

High end FA WR, Odell, didn't work
New FAces out the ying yang, didn't work. Young Coach, didn't work everyone wants to blame everyone.
Always thinking,
Always thinking the answer,
is,
Acquiring somebody good from somewhere else, and then when they get here, (where? your team), do they continue to get better through development,
or
just dust pin toss everyone who has a little bit of struggle. --- after all ^v < >
Acquiring somebody good from somewhere else,

And then spending 25 years acquiring a higher talent level, until having a top 1-3 talented roster to start the year, nets 6-6, so far,
so what is left.
Keep the team together
Find out what their/your identity is
Make it execute what that identity does, at a faster, more evolvable pace, going forward. May be what it would take to keep up.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
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Not to worried about the dropped passes, got to focus on the caught ones.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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