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As much of a skeptic as I am of Stefanski, this is too harsh.

Our max ceiling with Watson was 11 or 12 games. No way you're getting that with anyone else.

j/c:

With all the speculation, conjecture or possible scenarios, how about this -

Watson is suspended 10 games.
Brissett is injured or benched after three games.
Rosen has the finger of epiphany touch his skull and comes in to take us to 7-3, 6-4 or something like that.
Watson comes back, looks below average in his first few couple of games after so much time off.
But, a wildcard spot is still achievable.

Would it be comparable to a Couch/Holcomb thing? A gut decision?

Kidding.

Just getting restless for the season to start.

Not with who is on the roster now. I agree. I think BM will get 9 wins out of a much worse Panthers team - and while the Panthers have a weak division, I also think they are a bad team and badly coached so far by Rhule ... so I think we'd have easily got yo 11+ wins with BM and a first round pick. I fully understand and expect you might not agree.

That would be nice! We might be looking for a new coach then because I don’t have the confidence that others do in our ability to get to .500 without a good Qb

I said it on an earlier post. If we play the whole season without DW I can see 6-8 wins tops.

That’s about what I’d guess too. I think we can beat NYJ, Pittsburgh once, Carolina or Atlanta, Houston, Baltimore once, Washington, New Orleans, and maybe New England

j/c...

Hey Schwartz did something (good)!

We won 8 games last year w/terrible QB play and issues in the locker room. I think we can win that many and may challenge for a playoff spot.

I'm curious how you come to this conclusion when Baker, over his career and not just last year when he was hurt, has been a very poor 4th quarter QB. Even during the nice run to finish 2020, the Browns were up almost every single game they played in the second half of the year with the exception of the Bengals and the Ravens, his two best games as a pro (and yes, he was clutch in those games and played great).

He just has not proven to be able to deliver in the clutch. To me, you cannot count double digit wins with a QB who can't deliver at the end of games. That's really what it comes down to for me. The eye test says it's true and the stats back it up. If Baker were able to deliver in the clutch, I think he'd still be on the team, and I think those 11 wins would be achievable. And I'd be excited as hell about the season. Believe it or not, I'm sad things didn't work out with Baker. He was exactly what this team needed, and over all the 4 years had a lot of highs. It sucks it didn't turn out for us the way it did the Bills. I have mixed feelings about it at the end of the day. But I just don't think he was good enough.

It would be a neat comparison IF DW plays this year if he played with the same injuries Baker played with last year. Weird, I know. But your despise of Baker permeates basically every post you make, and your love of DW does as well. 1-7.

I like Anthony Schwartz. I like his speed and am really pulling for him to have a positive impact on this team.

There is no arguing with the fact that Baker was terrible last year. With regards to well we can do this year Baker’s injuries are not a concern. He was terrible. If we had average QB play we would have been in the playoffs. The team is probably more talented this year. With average QB play we should be able to make the playoffs. Jacoby Brissett was awful when he played last year.

j/c:

I think people are underestimating just how good our OL is and just how important OL play is to a team.

I also think that we have excellent backs.

I think Brissett won't turn it over as much as Baker and take fewer needless sacks.

I think Cooper is a very good WR.

I think Njoku is going to be featured this year and he is looking very good in camp. He's been killing Delpit.

Our D is strong. Our corners are excellent and our Edge guys are strong. The D got better and better over the course of the year.

It's a prediction, so it certainly is not a given, but I think it would be shocking if we only win 6 games. I think we will have a winning record but won't be a contender for the Super Bowl because we won't have Watson for most of the season and the AFC is freaking loaded w/great young qbs and very good teams. I think the most challenging aspect of this season is listening to all the negativity from certain posters on this board and how fighting will be more prevalent that actual discussions.

Unless something changes dramatically, I expect the Browns offense will see 8 in the box with line checks on the TE's forcing Stefanski outside his comfort zone. I see the best defender on Cooper and daring the Browns to try to throw from the 12 personnel that I expect the Browns to be running a lot of this year. Unless Stefanski has suddenly learned how to make half time adjustments, I look for an even more ho hum offense than what we experienced last year.

The same goes for the defense. Unless something changes dramatically, I expect teams to pound the middle of the Browns defense. The Browns had the worst rated PFF DT's in the league in 2021 and the worst of the bunch, Elliott, is expected to anchor that position as we speak. Unfortunately, when you're weak up the middle like that, players tend to overcompensate to help out. When the Browns defense does that, they become susceptible to the play action pass.

If that happens (like I think it will) and the Browns fall behind, they do not have the kind of Stefanski offensive scheme to play from behind. Falling 10-14 points behind eliminates Chubb from the equation and as of today, they don't have the QB or WR's to make up for Chubb's lack of production especially when trying to come from behind.

Being that Harris is now gone for the year, question marks on the OL could arise. However, staying with the trend of the forum, injuries have no bearing on the QB's play so next man up!

I wasn't aware of this...

I think soft tissue stuff is so prevalent now that teams use the early part of camp to be very careful with this stuff. I hope it’s nothing serious

It sounds minor, but hamstrings can be tricky. Doesn't take much to tweak it again and they take forever and a day to heal.

And I wasn't arguing any of that. At all. But thanks for playing. And I disagree the team is more talented this year. But, what do I, or you, know.

I just know baker was hurt for 14+ games last year. With 1 injury that some ex qb's said was almost impossible to play with. Now, I know, I'll get labeled a Baker fanboy.

I'm not. He's gone. I AM a Browns fanboy. I've been told on her, repeatedly, how much better DW would be. Just 1 pre season game, I know. And who knows how he'll do, IF he plays.

I hurt my hamstring chasing after a soccer ball during my daughter's soccer game back in April or so. A kid kicked the ball off the field and it was heading for a hill where it was going to roll down and roll forever. I was the closest parent and broke into a sprint to get to the ball before it got to the hill. In addition to tweaking my hamstring, my wife said I looked like an idiot.

My hamstring is still not the same and has not healed even 1%. I'm still able to play basketball if I stretch for about twenty minutes, and it takes a game or two before it loosens up and doesn't bother me.

I have a whole new appreciation for hamstring injuries.

No-one really wants to get into an in-depth discussion of the player no longer on the team. We disagree. Your 4th Q comments are genuine concerns. It's statistically factual. I happen to think he has a ton of mitigating factors from no-clue Freddie trying to score again against Seattle inside 2 minutes before the half when (if memory serves) we were 3 TD up, to ultra-conservative play calling when we've had leads with KS. Some think the injury didn't make a difference - I think the 55% completion after the injury vs 80% completion % pre-injury is an indication that maybe it had a slight impact. Maybe. I think Baker doesn't go thru progressions as fast as he needs to, I think his height is an issue with batted balls, but beyond that I think he is and will be a top 15 QB.... Like we've said, we'll get to see with a roster that is ranked about 28th in the NFL by ESPN, PFF, SI etc. . . . and that would make him about average which is what all these posts are saying we need to get to 11+ wins (or that's sort of the gist even if that's not spelled out in black and white.... you know we can't make generalist comments coz someone will be here to throw nasty names about and call me a liar).

To be clear I don’t think average QB gets us 11 wins. I think it gets us in the playoff race.

That's fair. Although I'm not 100% convinced 10 wins gets you into the playoffs with the Ravens and Cinci to duel against. It might be wild card spot at best. 9 wins probably won't get you there.

However we won 8 games last year with 'terrible' play. We have a better roster ... so average QB doesn't even get us 3 more wins over the terrible play last year? It's possible the better QB play doesn't guarantee 3 more wins, there are so many moving parts ... but it does seem a bit odd to talk about the terrible play last year, better roster this year, and then not think we can win 3 more games with Average QB play. You'd think 1 more win is a must/guaranteed, 2 more wins is highly probable - 3 more wins 50%+ chance?

Some people, (some not all), may underestimate just how 'bad the WR group .. will end up' , and how important WR play is to a team.
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Originally posted by Versatile Dog: " I think people are underestimating just how good our OL is and how important OL play is to a team."
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Well I think people may be underestimating just how bad the WR group will end up and how important WR play is to a team.

I dont agree we have a better roster. Receiver is worse. DT is worse. And even though we resigned clowney he won't play all season unless we are winning. He'll find a way to sit if he feels we don't have a chance to win which will make it harder on Myles. I have high hopes for JOK but linebacker is pretty weak too. Walker is one of the worst I've seen. We've also taken a step back at center.

I think Watson was supposed to come here and elevate the play of the team, but that's shot.

It's going to be a long season.

So let me get this straight. The Browns had to go out and get Watson because they would never have a chance to make it to the Super Bowl without an elite QB. Now that Watson's disgusting behavior off the field will most likely see him missing the majority if not all of the season, it is now the determination that an average QB can get us into the playoffs in a conference that is ultra-loaded with elite QB's?

This forum amazes me sometimes. Now Mayfield doesn't even qualify as an average QB according to some. Thank heavens Mayfield was able to get away from this unappreciative mess. Brissett was horrible last year, no question. The fate of the Browns is currently in his hands. 3 previous failures as the designated starter means nothing. Not to worry, the Browns have upgraded the QB position. 8 wins tops and that's if the Browns stay totally healthy. Whoops, injuries have no bearing on the play of the QB per forum guidelines.

Super Bowl or bust with Brissett! If the Browns don't at least make it to the conference championship minimum, it's time for Stefanski to go. Injuries don't matter and he got his upgraded QB room.

Three wins is a lot. I would guess we win one or two more if we had average QB play. I don’t think Brissett is average.

Cool, Kidding just restless for the season to start,
With all the speculation, conjecture, and possible scnearios,
HOW ABOUT THIS
I was thinking today, If I were an odds maker,...
where would an odds maker set the line for Wins by Baker Mayfield in 2022, and Browns team wins in 2022.
Now in 202I, Baker had 6 wins, the Browns won 2 more with others at @b, Keenum.
so, If I'd project, Baker wins, in Carolina, with their easier road imo
and Browns wins, in 2022 with their dysfunction imo,
------------
I'm thinking Baker minus one. so that I think, if Baker wins X games with the Panthers
and the Browns win one less than X, then the casino house would keep all the money from both sides' bets.
Who would be the better bet.
Would you set a different line.

Just clicking. I see posters here already throwing in the towel. We have a good supporting cast on O, better than what JB has had IMO. We also gave a lot of talent on D (Can’t wait to see JOK I’m his second year).

You should be happy, Rish - Baker is gone.

How about starting a Baker thread so those of us who just want to discuss the team don't have to listen to the constant whining of a few guys that ruin every freaking thread on this forum.

I'll be happy if we win.

Otherwise it's a waste of a season in a long line of wasted seasons.

Not sure if you are referring to my comment. Look through my posts if you want to know my stance on the QB change (signing/trade). It is just irritating that Rish and some others are saying we are done like dinner if DW is ‘unavailable’ for the 2022 season.

No, I wasn't referring to you. You don't play that crap.

How about you start talking about DW instead of bashing a guy who isn't even on the team, in basically every post? That'd be neat.

Tell us how great DW did.

And before you go 'dumb' on us all, I'm a BROWNS fan. Baker's gone. I care about the BROWNS. Stick that in your agenda.

Good night.

Can't take your own grief?

You, pit and ocd (on different threads) have made this place intolerable to logical people.

Let’s step back, take a deep breath and exhale. Our QB status is up in the air because the NFL keeps wasting our time, plus the DW thing (not important lol).

We’re bitchier than a lonely housewife with three kids, no booze left and a husband who won’t communicate.

Btw, does anyone else want to Rosen get more snaps?

Dion Sanders said the Pro football hall of fames' standards have become too low.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...fame-has-lowered-standards-for-inductees

Annnd that's the first time in 30 years I've agreed with anything Deion Sanders has had to say. And probably the last.

And Clay Mathews' Jr. STILL deserves induction under the more stringent demands that the Prof Football hall of fame should have.