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Yes.
I sit in the rain and look through the window to the game of tv.
Each to their own.
I accept not many will see it the way I do. That does not bother me a bit.
Some games remain in my memory like frostbite.
Dallas vs Green Bay Super Bowl 1967 Super Bowl. Oh the glorious pain.
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All's good my friend. As a guy who goes up for almost all of the home games over the last 15 years, I would like to see a roof on the place.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Like I said. I understand. People like comfort.
Especially as you age.
I once lived in a log cabin in Montana near the continental divide. Wood cook stove, no running water, odd house, no electricity and a long way from everywhere.
It would be hard to handle for me today.
I still like it but I have to watch others do it.
I like the way Lambeau Field looks. Love to watch games from Wrigley Field.
Just my make up.
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I respect everyone's personal preferences on this situation, but I think this entire idea is about generating more revenue and making more money. It's not really about how the fans want to watch the games. JMO.
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Of course.
It is a spreadsheet decision.
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Yeah, that's the premise... and that's what the team owner always says. Where does this revenue come from? Only the largest music artists have stadium tours. And bands (especially large bands on iconic tours) usually tour in the summer... because not every venue is a dome. What kind of trade show doesn't fit in the IX Center or Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse?? None that I can think of. I'm sure there are some events out there... maybe two per year... so that "found revenue" will pay for the stadium in
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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All's good my friend. As a guy who goes up for almost all of the home games over the last 15 years, I would like to see a roof on the place.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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j/c: I think there are a lot of other sporting events that might come to Cleveland. When Cleveland has had the available venue capacity and style, they have won bids and subsequently knocked it out of the park as a city and the planning commission has seen GREAT reviews. - All-Star games - NCAA tournaments (men and women) - Championship tournaments - Political conferences What else could be on the table?....I could see more international soccer matches. Maybe it puts Cleveland on the radar to actually get a professional soccer team when the Crew decides to relocate?  How about a Big Ten Championship game instead of Indy or a neutral city host for other football games. How about the ability to realistically bid on the Superbowl? And yes, concerts too I suppose. I think the opportunities are out there. JMO opinion. If the Browns decide to build a new stadium or renovate, it would be absolutely stupid to not put some sort of covering on the stadium. You are just doing this thing wrong if you don't. I'd prefer a retractable roof so you could still enjoy games outdoors at times.
Tackles are tackles.
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I think you missed the part where I agreed with you that I prefer the elements myself. To me it's just another part of the chess match. Can you adjust? Can you game plan on the fly? Are you better at overcoming adversity than your opponent? So we actually agree on that part.
I was simply questioning whether football was actually designed and created for being played outdoors or if playing outdoors was the only option they had at the time.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'd prefer a retractable roof so you could still enjoy games outdoors at times. No doubt that would be the preference. Any event for that matter. It would also allow for a natural surface unless you had the means to roll the entire field in and out on demand...I think 1-2 stadiums have that set-up. I don't know, maybe that would be less expensive than moving the roof.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 06/21/22 04:05 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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jc...
I've been thinking about how Browns fans are going to react if Watson is suspended for the entire 2022 season. IMO, it's going to get real ugly in Cleveland and those responsible for bringing the Texans mess to Cleveland are in for some serious questioning by the media and the Browns fan base.
The Browns ownership and management team are responsible for their decisions and each of them will have face some much deserved criticism and questioning about what the hell they were thinking when they gave up a kings ransom in draft capitol to the Texans to make their mess the property of the Browns.
The excuses and claims that the Browns did their homework and based on their extensive investigation of Watson's mess...that is not going to fly or satisfy most who question the wisdom and intelligence of ownership and those who were advising ownership. Some will try to claim that other teams tried to make a deal for Watson, therefore what is wrong with the Browns doing the same..? I wonder how many of those teams would want Watson now, after some of the ugly facts have been exposed to the world. But remember, the Browns owner and his management team "did their homework".
The pie in the sky predictions that even if Watson is suspended for 2022, two years down the road at the conclusion of the 2023 season, the Watson mess will pay dividends with Super Bowl win. That will be the justification some will hang on to as they try to justify what the Browns ownership and management team have done by paying the Texans in draft picks, to make Watson the new face of the Cleveland Browns.
The Browns ownership bought this mess and they are responsible. All I can do is shake my head and wonder, what's next..?
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it's going to get real ugly in Cleveland and those responsible for bringing the Texans mess to Cleveland are in for some serious questioning by the media and the Browns fan base. I think the local media are on board with ownership and won't resort to tuff and real questioning, they'll paint it with the rosiest brush circumstances allow. (mostly).
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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I don't know Haslam. All I know is his tenure with the Browns. I never worked for him. I don't know a thing about his business and all that went on when it was busted.
It was however an indication of what he allowed to happen.
As a NFL team owner his record is a failure until Baker came to the Browns.
So, now weeks ago Stefanski and Berry are emphatic "Baker is our quarterback."
Enter Haslam. We are going to make an offer for Watson. Dee Haslam is a visible representative of the organization. They supported Kareem Hunt.
Got him back into the NFL and provided the net around him.
This is different. Hunt did something wrong toward a woman one time that we know of. He is not a repeat offender as far as we know.
I did not hear the testmony of witnesses or the presentation of evidence. I was not behind the closed doors of the Grand jury.
Nor have I sat across from Watson looked into his eyes and asked him questions.
So, I do not know the truth.
Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans, NY Jets, or any other team who has made an offer. They also had to reach a conclusion.
However this turns out this is Haslam's move. He should be judged because he is the one who is making a statement of approval. The original post of this topic. 
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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I've been thinking about how Browns fans are going to react if Watson is suspended for the entire 2022 season. IMO, it's going to get real ugly in Cleveland and those responsible for bringing the Texans mess to Cleveland are in for some serious questioning by the media and the Browns fan base. If we win a few games early, I don't think it will get too ugly. If we start out ofer whatever, it will get very ugly. No matter who's under center.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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He's back! ![[Linked Image from profootballtalk.nbcsports.com]](https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2014/02/haslam1.jpg)
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I believe the Browns did do their homework. I do not believe the Browns are too stupid to not do their homework. We have a ton of bright guys in the FO. There were multiple teams willing to pay a ton for Watson. It's not like the Browns were the lone team. Some folks have never liked Haslam or this FO. Hell, I remember thread after thread after thread about how bad our FO was. I remember the Analytics, Had Enough Yet thread or threads. It's fine if people don't like Haslam and/or the FO, but not everyone has to agree w/such opinions.
I support the Browns decision to move on from Baker and go w/Watson. Others don't. It's all good because we are all entitled to our opinions w/being belittled.
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I stopped reading there....lol...just kidding mac. I don't think it will get real ugly. I think most people were expecting some sort of suspension, and if they were honest, it was going to be pretty long. I don't know that making it an entire season is going to flip many people who haven't already flipped on the matter. Just because people yell, scream, urinate, or moan doesn't make the group any larger. It just makes them loud, thinking because they talk louder it is going to make people listen. In a odd way, a year long suspension would help the Browns. It would clear a lot of cap space for next year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If by multiple you mean 4 out of 32. That's not a very high bar when you point out the actual number and ratio.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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There were multiple teams willing to pay a ton for Watson.
I really would like to know what other teams were offering Watson and maybe you can share those articles with the rest of the board members...just how much did those multiple teams offer Watson ?
BTW, I did point out in my post that some would attempt to justify the Browns decision by pointing their finger at the other teams that inquired about Watson but did not sign him.
A quote from my post above..
Some will try to claim that other teams tried to make a deal for Watson, therefore what is wrong with the Browns doing the same..? I wonder how many of those teams would want Watson now, after some of the ugly facts have been exposed to the world. But remember, the Browns owner and his management team "did their homework".
Last edited by mac; 06/27/22 12:06 PM.
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You made one statement in your earlier post that I'm not quite sure I agree with.... The Browns ownership and management team are responsible for their decisions and each of them will have face some much deserved criticism and questioning about what the hell they were thinking when they gave up a kings ransom in draft capitol to the Texans to make their mess the property of the Browns. I'm not saying you are wrong but I certainly don't feel you can assume you are right. What we do know is that Haslam signs the checks and has the final say over everything. We know it's he who reaps the financial reward for the teams success. So that leaves zero doubt that Haslam approved of the deal and made this decision. What we don't know is how people such as Depo and Berry felt about such a deal. All we know for sure is that they didn't quit their jobs because of it. I have seen nothing that would suggest they are any part of an investigative team that would have conducted the so called thorough investigation before the deal. In all honesty I can't imagine someone who is truly a numbers guy considering the risk assessment angle in all of this giving full support on such a deal. Once again I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just not convinced you're right when it comes to the management portion of your comments.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I have posted articles multiple times. There were originally 13 teams interested. I posted the article in the Tailgate forum after another poster asked for a link. I also know that Indy was immediately rejected by Houston because they are in the same division. There said to be six teams that had serious interest. In the end, four teams agreed to the Texans' trade demands. That is "multiple" no matter how you look at it. I'm sure you will spin away, though. b]Saints have made an offer for Texans QB Deshaun Watson[/b] by Kristen Wong3 months ago Follow @kriscwong TWEET SHARE x COMMENT So much for less quarterback drama in 2022. The New Orleans Saints reportedly made an offer for Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson on Sunday and will meet with Watson soon. Last Friday, Watson was cleared of criminal charges following allegations of sexual misconduct by 22 women, paving the way for his trade talks to begin this offseason. Though the civil lawsuits are still active and the league could still suspend Watson, the jury did not find enough evidence to charge him with a crime, and that heavily increases his chances of playing for a team in 2022. One team interested in Watson’s services is the Saints, who recently made an offer for the controversial Houston quarterback and will meet with him to state their case for bringing him on. Amid the rumors and speculation of Watson’s future, the Saints and Panthers have submitted the first two formal requests to speak to Watson, though they likely won’t be the last. New Orleans Saints reportedly make an offer for Texans QB Deshaun Watson
Watson’s asking price includes three first-round picks and more, and despite his criminal allegations, many teams are still willing to meet that high price.A tumultuous offseason saw quarterbacks like Russell Wilson and Carson Wentz get moved around, and many teams remain in the hunt for a starting signal-caller. Along with the Saints and Panthers, the Seahawks, Bucs, and Browns may also try to meet with Watson before the start of the 2022 season. In terms of financial flexibility, the Saints may barely be able to fit Watson’s projected $136 million dollar contract into their salary cap for 2022 as the team is currently restructuring contracts to get under the cap. If a deal with Watson doesn’t go through, it probably won’t be because the Saints can’t afford to fork over the draft capital or because they suddenly changed their mind. Rather, other teams like the Panthers have more cap space (and better first-round picks to offer) and could lure Watson over with more money. NEXT: 6 injury-prone free agents that are worth the risk Stay tuned to see how the Watson negotiations pan out. https://whodatdish.com/2022/03/13/saints-made-offer-texans-qb-deshaun-watson/Texans Trade: In Position To Raise Asking Price For Deshaun Watson?Deshaun Watson meeting with several teams allows Houston to leverage offers for best possible deal COTY M. DAVISMAR 14, 2022 HOUSTON -- The trigger could be pulled on one of the most anticipated trades in NFL history by the end of the week. According to ESPN, Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson will meet with teams over the next 48 hours to decide on a trade destination. Watson must waive his no-trade clause before the Texans can agree to a deal. Among teams expected to meet with the three-time Pro Bowler are the Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints. According to Pro Football Network, the Panthers and Saints are serious contenders to acquire Watson. Watson originally requested a trade from the Texans in January of 2021, but off-field issues hampered the process. On Friday, a grand jury voted that Watson will not face criminal charges. The Texans' price tag for Watson starts with a package of three first-round draft picks, additional draft capital and players. With several teams talking to Watson, the Texans are in position to potentially receive a more lucrative offer.https://www.si.com/nfl/texans/news/...ci029c21dc4001272a&pid=watson-insert Deshaun Watson options stand at four: Saints, Panthers, Falcons, BrownsPosted by Mike Florio on March 16, 2022, 2:28 PM EDT The Texans apparently are closing in on a move that would send quarterback Deshaun Watson to a new team. For now, the options stand at four: New Orleans, Carolina, Atlanta, and Cleveland. No other suitors have publicly emerged. There’s been a suggestion that the 49ers will meet with Watson; multiple reporters have disputed that. It would be hard, however, to keep it quiet, given the various moving parts and people who become aware of Houston granting permission and Watson deciding to take the meeting. Still, others could come out of the woodwork. The Texans wisely are pre-qualifying suitors, requiring the submission of acceptable trade proposals before allowing teams to meet with Watson. This ensures that the Texans won’t find themselves in a situation where Watson will waive his no-trade clause for only one team, leaving the Texans with zero leverage. The Texans have instead set a price that the team must be willing to pay, if that team is picked by Watson. So where will he go? He didn’t want the Panthers last year when they wanted him. The Saints have a team that is ready to contend again. The Falcons continue to be a confusing choice, given the havoc the move would wreak on the team’s salary cap. The Browns make the most sense, but for the fact that they play in a much tougher conference. Others could still emerge. The trade won’t be done until it’s done. It definitely seems as if it’s moving in that direction, fairly quickly. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-at-four-saints-panthers-falcons-browns/
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Only four teams actually made an offer. Making an inquiry is like calling a car lot to ask how much they want for a car you saw in their ad. Claiming anyone who asked what the price tag was, was serious about signing watson is misleading at best.
Only one team offered him a quarter of a billion dollars after he claimed they were out of contention. That goes beyond serious and borderlines on desperate.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Only one team offered him a quarter of a billion dollars after he claimed they were out of contention. That goes beyond serious and borderlines on desperate. Speaking of misleading... there was at least 1 team that was butthurt by not being able to match the Browns contract offer.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Yet never said they would have.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Browns Made the Worst Trade in Sports History Monday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, Jonas Knox, Brady Quinn and LaVar Arrington react to the latest reports that the NFL is pushing for an indefinite suspension of Deshaun Watson and won't accept anything less than a full season. Brady Quinn: "This is a prime example of why some organizations are just dumpster fires. Even when it's talented, even when they've made a recent playoff run and it looks optimistic, this is why they can't sustain itself, because they go make the type of move they did this offseason, obviously not having all the information... Like, no one has ever handled this sort of situation before in any professional sports league. It is so unique, and yet the Browns took the chance to sign this dude to the biggest contract in NFL history, thinking they were good. I look back and you see a number of organizations that are just gonna struggle, and it's hard for me not to feel like this organization is always gonna struggle." Jonas Knox: "This is the worst trade-slash-signing in history because it's not like signing a player who goes to a team and just falls off a cliff... All of this was avoidable. You didn't have to make the deal for him and give up what you did, but you did knowing the 22 lawsuits were out there. And you burned the bridge with the quarterback that won you a playoff game in Pittsburgh." LaVar Arrington: "And you reset the market for every quarterback in the league with a guy who may not even play another game. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a worse deal ever done in sports." https://foxsports1070.iheart.com/fe...-made-the-worst-trade-in-sports-history/
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Okay mac, your turn. The excuses and claims that the Browns did their homework and based on their extensive investigation of Watson's mess...that is not going to fly or satisfy most who question the wisdom and intelligence of ownership and those who were advising ownership. Will you please provide links that prove that the Browns did not do their homework? No hypotheticals. Actual proof. You wanna call me out as if I am a liar, well now it is your turn to prove your claim.
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Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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What's really clear to me is that IF Watson gets a 1 year suspension, it will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Browns Due Diligence was neither Due or Diligent! At that point I think it would be safe to say, they blew the entire deal.
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Yet never said they would have. This is what I was referring to. One team absolutely would have. We just don't know who it was, but it's hypothesized in the link that that team was Indy. TLDR 1. 13 teams wanted in on Watson 2. Only 5 teams wanted him bad enough to engage with Houston on trade compensation 3. We know the rest.... edit: Read the last line of the article, then read it again. IMO, that tells you everything you need to know about the approach of our own FO.
Last edited by oobernoober; 06/27/22 04:43 PM. Reason: last bit....
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Browns Made the Worst Trade in Sports History Monday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, Jonas Knox, Brady Quinn and LaVar Arrington react to the latest reports that the NFL is pushing for an indefinite suspension of Deshaun Watson and won't accept anything less than a full season. Brady Quinn: "This is a prime example of why some organizations are just dumpster fires. Even when it's talented, even when they've made a recent playoff run and it looks optimistic, this is why they can't sustain itself, because they go make the type of move they did this offseason, obviously not having all the information... Like, no one has ever handled this sort of situation before in any professional sports league. It is so unique, and yet the Browns took the chance to sign this dude to the biggest contract in NFL history, thinking they were good. I look back and you see a number of organizations that are just gonna struggle, and it's hard for me not to feel like this organization is always gonna struggle." Jonas Knox: "This is the worst trade-slash-signing in history because it's not like signing a player who goes to a team and just falls off a cliff... All of this was avoidable. You didn't have to make the deal for him and give up what you did, but you did knowing the 22 lawsuits were out there. And you burned the bridge with the quarterback that won you a playoff game in Pittsburgh." LaVar Arrington: "And you reset the market for every quarterback in the league with a guy who may not even play another game. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a worse deal ever done in sports." https://foxsports1070.iheart.com/fe...-made-the-worst-trade-in-sports-history/I think that's certainly the worst case scenario and it's a possible outcome / verdict. Best case scenario might be only a 6 game suspension. Reality is probably somewhere in the middle. For me it's a bad trade with anything more than a 10 game suspension. If he were to go to trial and be found guilty in a civil court - it'd also be a sickening and like a gut punch.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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All this talk about "due diligence", "worst trade" "blown deal" is all a bunch of crap to me. Watson, who is a top five QB without a doubt, probably will get suspended. Who knows for how long? But what most of the people bashing the signing overlook, is that after the suspension, even if it is year long, the Browns have one of the best QBs in the NFL locked up for years.
Also, if Brisset has to play, many forget that he went 6-4 with the Colts, until he was injured.
It will suck if he gets a full year, but I doubt it will be that long. But when this is over, we will have the best QB to wear a Browns uniform since Kosar.
"The Elf is killing the Curse"
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Legend
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Legend
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Brady Quinn lol he couldnt even beat out our 3rd string qb in his prime.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hall of Famer
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Brady Quinn: Some people could point to us drafting him as an example of an organization being a dumpster fire and I liked Brady. I wanted him to succeed in the worst way as I do all our players.
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Legend
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Legend
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All this talk about "due diligence", "worst trade" "blown deal" is all a bunch of crap to me. Watson, who is a top five QB without a doubt, probably will get suspended. Who knows for how long? But what most of the people bashing the signing overlook, is that after the suspension, even if it is year long, the Browns have one of the best QBs in the NFL locked up for years.
Also, if Brisset has to play, many forget that he went 6-4 with the Colts, until he was injured.
It will suck if he gets a full year, but I doubt it will be that long. But when this is over, we will have the best QB to wear a Browns uniform since Kosar. So, A 1st and 4th in 2022 A 1st and 3rd in 2023 A 1st and 4th in 2024 And a fully guaranteed 230M contract... For a "top five" QB that you will pay 43M the first year, while (most likely) flushing the season down the drain. By the time he takes the field he will be 2 years away from football. A two year stint that he spent embroiled in turmoil. Turmoil throughout the whole organization and fanbase. Every one of your "star" players a year older with one less year on their contracts. I'd like to hear straight from the horse's mouth, or anyone's mouth, for that matter... Knowing everything we know now, would you still do this deal?
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Legend
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Legend
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Well based on the fact I'm going to have a though or impossible time cheering for him personally... No.
Based on the team being better and putting aside protestations about his character... A ban of 8 games or less, I think the Browns made a move that will make sense.
More than a 10 game ban and its a bad trade. Probably a wasted year. Even if JB can be as good as injured Baker or a bit better, we'd have been better off with a #1 pick and Baker.
Jmo
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Legend
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Legend
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Yeah, I forgot to include the disclaimer, based on his comment -- "even if it is year long" as part of the decision. So based on a year-long suspension, would anyone do this deal?
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Legend
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Legend
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Only four teams actually made an offer. Making an inquiry is like calling a car lot to ask how much they want for a car you saw in their ad. Claiming anyone who asked what the price tag was, was serious about signing watson is misleading at best.
Only one team offered him a quarter of a billion dollars after he claimed they were out of contention. That goes beyond serious and borderlines on desperate. That still doesn't mean other teams weren't in the mix. Why are we bickering about this? Just because Mac questions it? Other teams were seeking Watsons services. Just because we ended up getting him doesn't mean other's weren't trying. I know you are smart enough to know that in situations like this the high bid usually wins, so it's a little underhanded to say we were the only ones willing to pay what we did.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Well based on the fact I'm going to have a though or impossible time cheering for him personally... No.
Based on the team being better and putting aside protestations about his character... A ban of 8 games or less, I think the Browns made a move that will make sense.
More than a 10 game ban and its a bad trade. Probably a wasted year. Even if JB can be as good as injured Baker or a bit better, we'd have been better off with a #1 pick and Baker.
Jmo Maybe so, but that is also a little short sighted. Winning the Super Bowl or a deep playoff run with Brissett would be great for this year, but that would make this a bad trade. Think about it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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