DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Sigh…the economy

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/why-billionaires-dont-pay-taxes

That article talks about how they get out of paying much of their tax bills, sometimes all of it. There are many others too, if you do a google search, you can answer most of your questions about the subject quickly.

You see, I'm not against people or even business getting ahead and becoming wealthy due to their hard work and innovation. I mean that's the American way and people should be rewarded for their hard work and good decisions. I don't have a problem with any of that. I would venture to guess that you don't either. But when those same people make decisions to pay their workers paltry wages, no benefits and feel they should be protected from paying their fair share of taxes, that's where I have a problem.

According to some I guess any time a couple making 250k have to pay their 35.88% it must be to redistribute wealth. Because that's what they call it if you expect a corporation to pay a minimum of 15%. How people can argue against that stuns me. How they make that sound like some crazy left wing idea amazes me.

Thus far they exploit every loophole to minimize the taxes they pay. Which I can't blame them for. But for people to try and proclaim the tax code isn't rigged in their favor is just crazy. They use specialized accounting firms to exploit every way around paying taxes possible. They would rather pay them than pay taxes. Then, on top of often times paying little to no taxes, it's perfectly legal for them to get communities across America to bid against each other to give them special tax abatements worth sometimes millions upon millions of dollars just to open a new plant or distribution center in their town. It's little more than legalized blackmail which sets up a system where their employees have to pay state and local taxes while they themselves do not because they were given huge breaks just to be there.

The excuse is, "Yeah, but they brought jobs to the community." How is that an excuse for allowing multi billion dollar corporations from contributing their fair share to the tax base?

It just never ends all the excuses and reasons given why the people and corporations with the most should be exempt from paying their fair share like the same Americans who make far less do. But it never ends.

Of course this once again is specific about federal income tax. It is true there was ways to get around income tax, but the reality is that billionaires still pay taxes.

The topic of how much and fair share is different, but that was not the original assertion. The original assertion was "billionaires that pay no taxes".

As an aside, the methods for reducing tax liability used can be used by anyone. It isn't a special carve out for stinkin rich people.

FATE got the response in for me. Maybe I should've also added that I'm all for a conversation on inflation and/or fair tax rate/code and all that... but IMO, if you want to have an intelligent conversation, it's gotta be separated from what Biden has coming out of his face-hole.

And that's a typical response. You see, all I've asked for is that you back up your claim. What are these incentives you speak of? Yet thus far you have refused. You see that would actually mean you would have to bring facts to the table to back up your assertions. I will always call out people who make wild claims without giving any evidence to support such claims.

We are all entitled to our own opinions. Here is your claim...


The federal unemployment extension ended in September of 2021. Anyone who had received unemployment according to their state guidelines, their benefits have expired. Which means that incentive no longer exists and hasn't for eight months now.

Adults, at least in Ohio and many other states are not entitled to welfare benefits. They only receive benefits based on having children. It's their children's benefits they receive.

You see, everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled to their own set of facts. That's the difference. But I understand why it's much easier to blame me for the fact you won't back up your claim.

Like I said, you're the only one who has questioned this because you're the only one who doesn't get it. And people claim I'm only here to argue.

What are you talking about? Everyone in the country is aware of how many programs there are to provide money, housing, clothing, etc in place. Hell, how have you supported yourself since you left the work force years ago. There are so many different ways for people to collect money from the government that is almost hard to count them. Please don't pretend you are unaware of those sources of receiving money. Just stop.

What kills me is that certain folks think that I am against the poor and oppressed because I don't believe enabling folks to "survive" is good for their long-term benefits and it's not good for our country. I actually believe that people would be better off if they were empowered rather than enabled. I've told this story many times, but my wife is very successful and escaped poverty through education, drive, and hard-work. Her sister and her sister's children have never worked a day in their lives. They live off of various assistance programs that in are in-place through the government, not to mention the money we send them every freaking month. None of them are happy. That's not a life style we should encourage. We should change the mind-set of those facing difficult circumstances and do that at a very young age rather than telling them that they aren't good enough to earn rewards on their own and how they are at the mercy of the corrupt government.

Again, you did not like my answer and that is your right. But please stop w/this nonsense that I am making things up.

inflation started before the war in Ukraine.

bottom line.. wealthy people have billions of tax breaks. remove the tax breaks and tax problems are solved.

Flat tax everyone and every company at 15% - that won' happen because the non-wealthy people will complain they have to pay taxes and not get a refund.

Not just income, capital gains too. Both taxed equally.

But a flat tax would screw the poorest who now pay no taxes and many get refunds due to EIC and other credits. Going to a flat tax would tax them and take away that extra. I couldn't care less about the EIC. I think it's BS anyway. I raised my kids on my own dime. I got a few small EICs early on but back then it was a couple hundred bucks. Today it is thousands. Not exactly sure how much and it's based on number of kids and other crap, but at $250 per kid per month (the advanced amount during the pandemic) or $3,000 per Kid/year, it adds up fast. Some families with 5-6 kids are cleaning up if they get that full amount. I don't think this is fair to people with no kids, or people who are more responsible to the planet and only have one or two kids, for that matter. And it is WAY TOO MUCH imo. I could see a couple grand a year in most cases, but 3K a year per kid? Octomom would get 24K/year just for producing kids. Any idiot can produce a kid, well unless there is a medical reason they can't.

I would rather that money went into community assistance programs to be administered to apply to only those in need. And my reason is seeing what many do with income tax returns, blowing it on things they can't afford like 10 cent millionaires. They go out and but 4K 65" TVs and crap like that, more often than not. I don't know about other areas of the country, but that is common around here. And I don't begrudge them those things, I just think the money should go toward the raising or well being of kids it was intended for. Hope that doesn't make me a big meanie.

Another child tax credit that blows my mind is the adoption credit. My wife and I raised a grandson for five years with zero child support or government aid. We were told we made too much and since we were related, he didn't qualify for the same things abandoned kids are eligible for. And yet, my brother and his wife adopted two daughters and got 60 grand that year for a tax return. Later they adopted 3 more kids and got another big credit, but not as big this time (I think). How do they justify this, when so many grandparents are paying to raise kids out of pocket? Since the heroin epidemic hit rural America, there has been an explosion of grandparents taking on grandkids. This was much more rare when I was coming up.

How do I support myself?



I worked for 30 years. How do you support yourself since you retired?

Yeah, those "programs" you mentioned sure make people live well. Why would anyone want to work when you can barely survive if you don't?

And let's not pretend that these "housing programs" are the answer. Are there some available? Yes. Do some people get such benefits? Yes. But i can tell you that at least in the Nashville area there's not nearly enough to go around. It's not like people can apply for housing and suddenly they have a place to live. It doesn't work that way. I see it on the news every night here.

Once again, most all of those programs will only help people with children. Maybe you should also be looking at the fact many wages in America today are so low there isn't much incentive to work.

I never believed in that concept. I started off making very little money but through hard work and applying myself I advanced and made a good living. I made wise investments. I managed my money well. But even then, when I started out, I could make a car payment, afford my rent and buy groceries on what was at the time considered a low income. You can't do that now.

Maybe that was part of the incentive that drove me.

Hey I do appreciate you bringing something that supported your position. That's all I was looking for. You see in a discussion it's not up to me to back up your position.

I really don't think you are against the poor. I just don't think you understand how many people would be impacted if some of these programs weren't available. I don't think you realize just how little resources are available compared to the actual number of people that are in need. And I get it. There certainly are those who take advantage of the system at the bottom of the social ladder. But I'm not ready to punish those who are actually in need for the actions of those who abuse the system or label them as all being the same.

Here is something that may or may not surprise you. Should people be able to pay wages that require people to need federal benefits to supplement their pay? Should tax payers be supplementing business in terms of food and medical care to their employees?

Federal Social Safety Net Programs: Millions of Full-Time Workers Rely on Federal Health Care and Food Assistance Programs

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-45

Once again thanks for your reply which certainly helped clarify your position. We don't see it quite the same way but sadly much of what gets paid in these benefits go to people that are actually working because that's the way our economic system is rigged. I call that corporate welfare.

I should also stipulate that I couldn't care less what others are getting and that I don't blame them for getting whatever they got. I don't want to take away from them just because I didn't qualify or get money like that. I just think it ridiculous and mismanaged, especially the adoption money, but EIC too. Same money could go a long way toward ending poverty on a local level if it was properly managed.

Bro, you'd be astounded at how many game the system for EIC. Can't count the conversations I've had, over the 16 years of owning a restaurant, with employees that wanted to cut their hours (if I wouldn't pay them under the table) because of how it would affect their EIC. "Right now I'm hitting the sweet spot..." GTHOH

For those that don't know, the EIC is incrementally higher up to a certain income threshold... and then starts to decrease as they earn more. Talk about whack!

I had to stop reading and it's why I said you are here to argue. It is also why people accuse you of twisting their words around to fit your particular point of view.

Not once did I say anything resembling the programs led to people living well or that they worked. A huge part of my rhetoric is that people don't live well when they receiving such assistance and that those programs are NOT the answer. In fact, that is why I insist that we encourage young folks to take empowerment of their own lives even when they are facing uphill battles that my children never once had to endure. It is my belief that enabling is actually a subtle and rather silent way of oppressing those who are already facing dire circumstances.

So what you asserted and what your "proof" says are different so you are now going to lay on the floor and give up.

You're a funny guy. Have you ever considered a career in standup?

That was a very convenient way to ignore addressing the rest of my post. It seems like the only go to line you have left to avoid a discussion. I've seen you use it several times just today. Very predictable.

So I guess you won't address how there are people who work full time, millions of them in fact who are still eligible for these benefits. How about the fact that often times people are products of their environment? Is there a chance and do they have some opportunity to work themselves out of it? Yes they do. But they are often times in a situation where they have no role models or examples to follow.

You seem to feel that making it possible for people to have a roof over their heads and actually having something to eat is "enabling". Some of us believe that is just keeping them from being homeless and starving.

So you can't actually support your assertion thus you take personal shots.

I already did. So far everyone who has read this thread got the message, accept you. Let that sink in for just a minute.

Inflation started as soon as the election was stolen.

No, you gave me a headline that was a hook that when set said otherwise. Again, there are many types of tax, your article mentioned one type (Federal Income tax) and that at times some billionaires got out of it. That does not equate to paying no taxes. You can spin, twist and insult all you like (and you will, it's your thing) but the fact is you made an absurd assertion and your only real proof is "well, I told you so and thus it is true". It does not work that way.

See if you can come up with something else to be insulting with, since you have failed to prove your point. And maybe the message you think they got is not the message they actually got, but again, you think you speak for everyone else. It doesn't work that way. Let that sink in for a few hours, maybe you will stop earning your nickname.

Are you saying inflation never happened? Because EVERYBODY knows the election was fair and honest, at least it was by the left. I can't believe their are people who still believe this after all the proof and evidence to the contrary. What's it gonna take to get through?

Any way you slice it this is all bad for Biden. This is disaster, and leftist policies lead us here. Shut down the country, keep it shut down even to those who want to work, throw billions at Ukraine for some reason while people at home struggle. Then blame inflation on Russia.....bro we did not have to get involved. Get millionaire talking heads on TV saying "if that's the price we have to pay for democracy". Nah democracy would have been just fine staying out of Ukraine.


For all of Trumps jackassery everyone was screaming from the top of their lungs he was going to start WW3 and here we are with the dude they propagated as a "healer" flirting real military action with 1 of 2 superpowers that could send us there.

Tough albeit arrogant talk with another big ego leader = WW3
Sending billions in military equipment to fight a proxy war that THEY KNOW we are supplying = Not WW3

Call it whatever you want, this IS a proxy war, it is. flat out. A proxy war from multiple nations is still a proxy war.

It's the rhetoric, it's the hypocrisy and it's obnoxious.

No freaking Chit Charlie. Maybe read the post I responded to as well as my comment.

Wow! MEME THE LEFT sure puts out bizarre and sadly pathetic videos, huh? smh. What kind of pea brain even thinks that crap up? Put that brain in a gnat's ass and it would rattle like a BB in a box car. I guess that's what you get when you follow some losers channel with a Maga hat for it's thumbnail. Yep, that is a dead giveaway that what you are about to see WILL BE STUPID.

Hilarious! These puppets have no idea...LOL!



She says "you know" 10 times.

He isn't trying to eat people, but maybe trying to starve our infants. Maybe an effort to say if those people had abortions, those kids wouldn't be starving.

Just how much more twisted can your thinking become?

https://twitter.com/philrosenn/status/1526615388196286465?s=20&t=7oZsdr2NgMxqcT-n_4TmpA


Wait, what? If the dollar is up 14% against the world's other major currencies, how can the economy be so bad? How can inflation be so bad? Hmm...

You're going to use a comparison to the Euro to try to tell me I'm not paying 20-30% percent more for everything I buy? Or that gas hasn't nearly tripled??

Or that none of that matters, because I'll have 14 more cents for every dollar I convert, when I go buy groceries in Montenegro?

You're off you're rocker, dude.

I don't believe it's the same thing (I'm not an expert, so someone please correct me if/where I'm wrong).

Foreign Exchange is simply the value of currencies vs each other. IIRC, Europe is also getting hammered by inflation.

Yes. It simply means that they are getting hit even harder, or at the least are less able to absorb the impact of what is happening.
As FATE points out, very clearly, the inflation is VERY real and VERY bad. Any suggestion to the contrary is just gaslighting.

I understand what you're saying and it is a very valid point. I would also like to add that when people ignore that the current inflation issue isn't a global issue right now they're more concerned about blaming the current administration for inflation while ignoring it's actually a global issue. It sucks for all of us. It's not as if I'm out here on an island and not having it impact my life just like everyone else.

But it's happening on a global scale impacting almost every nation and person on the globe. Trying to isolate it to a single country and a single president is a very short sighted view if the situation which I see happening over and over again.

PPE mentioned gas lighting and I think it's coming from both directions.

True, true, and I'm sure the short-sighted blame game will never stop.

I'm just speaking for myself and a recurring theme I keep seeing from the "other side".

I am NOT blaming the current administration for inflation. I'm blaming the current administration for passing the buck and blaming others for the problem. That's gaslighting from the top down, and average intellect sees right through it. Every time someone points out that Biden seems to have a weak plan for any number of problems, the other side screams as if he's being blamed for the actual problem... the two are very different.

Got it. I didn't mean to imply you per say with my comments. I do think it's crazy to blame it on things that really aren't major contributors to inflation by the current administration. The blame game is something we see far too much of from both sides. I'm not sure how one can have a "great plan" for the global oil market situation or global inflation but at the very least I would like to see the current administration actually break down how inflation is a global problem, why that situation actually exists and that it has to be addressed on a global scale.

Americans are more stressed about money than ever, and it’s hurting our mental health
PUBLISHED WED, MAY 18 20227:04 AM EDT

Americans are more stressed about money than they’ve ever been, according to the American Psychological Association’s latest Stress In America Survey.

“Eighty-seven percent of Americans said that inflation and the rising costs of everyday goods is what’s driving their stress,” said Vaile Wright, senior director of health care innovation at the American Psychological Association.

More than 40% of U.S. adults say money is negatively impacting their mental health, according to Bankrate’s April 2022 Money and Mental Health report.

“I was in debt off and on all of my 20s and early 30s,” Tawnya Schultz, founder of The Money Life Coach, told CNBC. “I was in this debt cycle of trying to get out of debt, paying off debt, getting back into it. And I was just tired of feeling like I could never get out of it or feeling like I was always going to have debt.”

Read more...
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/american-money-stress-mental-health.html

No brainiac, I'm saying something is rotten and it's corporate greed. YES, the inflation is real. Yes, it is global. But if the dollar is up 14%, it should have 14% more buying power, yet it doesn't. This whole supply chain shortage BS only started after people refused to work for slave wages. Isn't capitalism grand.

The US economy is built on the back of slavery. First it was real slaves in chains, now it's economic slavery. Without dirt cheap labor, US corps don't know how to run. Everyday, year after year, corps have to have a bigger and bigger return on investment for corps to compete for investment dollars. Fiduciary duty has become an excuse for all kinds of bad crap. For example, a company takes shortcuts to save and ends up creating a baby formula shortage, with babies dying. Or a company tricks the consumer by downsizing the amount of chips in a bag, while the bag remains the same size, with only a minor increase in price. But a year before the pandemic, you got 16 oz of chips for say $3 ($0.1875 cents per ounce), now you get 11.5 oz for $4 ($0.3478 cents per ounce). And if you weren't paying attention, you would never see it, but that is an 85.5% increase in price over two years. And this type of increase is across the board. And this happened throughout the pandemic on a regular basis.

This new inflation, due to supply chain shortages, is a corporate facade to cover the massive theft (transfer of wealth) during the pandemic IMO.

So, working people going from earning a few bucks more an hour have mostly lost money (buying power) since getting those raises. Is this how our economy should work? I used to really be a strong believer in capitalism, but I have lost most of that faith.