DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deshaun Watson Continued.....

I mostly agree with you, and I acknowledge I'm no arbiter about how/if things are posted here. IMO, splitting the convos makes for better discussion on both topics and so it was a good move. I am unaware that Tailgate is some sort of back alley when it comes to the forums on here. If it is, then mea culpa.

I can't speak to the refs' decision to leave it alone. I agree with you that the topic of NFL suspension sufficiently blurs the lines. If I wanted to argue, I'd say that the least talked-about portion of Watson coming here has been the part about NFL suspension.

Well, the opinions do matter to me (and others). Otherwise nobody would post here. Splitting the convos was intended as a helpful improvement.

You're back a week and telling me how to post. I didn't miss you, but you know that. Let's keep things good in here and not address each other. And I'll post what I want, you don't like it, go away again.

I'm not bashing DW, but it all needs to be discussed. Unlike you and some others, many fans/posters have a real issue with this signing that is very much pure football.

PSA FOR ALL POSTERS: Vers and I don't get along. I don't consider him good/bad/other; we simply just don't get along. That said, he has a habit of trying to control what gets posted like it's something personal. I just want you all to know, YOU do YOU. Vers is a good 'football knowledge' poster, but his opinions on what you should or should not post don't carry any weight whatsoever, nobody but the mods and Purp have that power.

But Purp did set guidelines for what should be posted in which forum. Police blotter related stuff is supposed to go in Tailgate according to those guidelines. He's not so much trying to control what you post, but, like many of us, he'd like to see certain things in the place that it has been indicated by the powers that be that they are supposed to go.

Some of us get annoyed when rules and guidelines are ignored. Sometimes we don't feel like reading about anything but pure, on the field football. That is supposed to be what this forum is for. When our pure football is tainted, it can make bad moods worse.

This is EXACTLY why I’d prefer that Watson’s legal issues be talked about in Tailgate. I’d like to read more on how we can utilize him along with the skill players and OL we have, but it’s boring and feels like a time-waster to scroll through a thread and see nothing except arguments over 22 alleged victims, a looming suspension, the endless merry-go-round.

Just my opinion.

Imthebossofeveryone returned to the board. Standby to be criticized for siding with me on this one. Somebody will be along shortly to tell you.

There is so much information that is available if folks are willing to search for it. I don't see how this can be good for Watson and the Browns unless it is simply overlooked by the NFL and the former U.S. District Court Judge Sue Robinson, the act as an impartial arbitrator in disciplinary cases like Watson’s.

IMO, this might be a tough sell to convince the Judge...

Deshaun Watson Admits Sexual Encounters with Masseuses, Always ‘Consensual’


Alicia larocca, April 9, 2021
link

Deshaun Watson‘s attorney says the QB admits he had sexual encounters with some of his massage therapists over the years — but insists it was always consensual.

“Were there consensual encounters? Yes,” Watson’s attorney, Rusty Hardin, said Friday while addressing the media.

A reporter followed up with this question — “So, you’re saying on Instagram, Deshaun reached out to some of these women booking a legitimate massage and then engaged in consensual sex acts with some of these women?”

Hardin’s response: “On some occasions, some sexual activities would have taken place,”

“I’m not going into what it is, or the nature, or the numbers, or with whom but I think you can rightfully assume that.”

“The question that we have always been emphasizing, never at any time under any circumstances … did this young man ever engage in anything that was not mutually desired by the other party.”

The point of Hardin’s news conference was to point out that Deshaun deserves a fair shot to defend himself in court instead of letting the case play out in the media.

Hardin’s defense team explained why they believe Watson is a good man who never crossed the line with any of the accusers.

But, several questions remain … specifically regarding the now confirmed sexual activity with various massage therapists.

Hardin explained Watson gets roughly 150 massages per year to keep his body in prime shape for his job as an NFL quarterback.

He also said it’s not unusual for millennials to use Instagram to find businesses to patronize … including massage therapists.

Hardin says another reason Watson used Instagram as a tool to find massage therapists is because COVID made it difficult to find a regular masseuse.

When asked what Deshaun’s reaction has been to the mounting lawsuits, Hardin put it this way:

“He’s dumbfounded. He’s truly dumbfounded.”

“If you’re the average citizen that’s never been caught up in anything, this is insane. That’s really his reaction.”

“When I told him of that first allegation and the third lawsuit that somehow he used force or something, I didn’t know him at the time, when I told him he was in disbelief.”

“He asked me two or three times, ‘I forced her?!’ and then he just started crying. That’s his reaction and that the thing for yall to remember. we don’t cry about things that we did.”

For more updates check below links and stay updated with News AKMI.

Hey mac, long time, no see. I am not going to criticize you for your position. I objected to OCD calling my claim "shameful." He comes back w/be prepared to be criticized. I don't know........calling someone "shameful" seems rather critical.

It was. I meant it.

To me, the biggest thing Watson will bring is his ability to use his feet. If you are playing with a QB who can't make things happen when he runs, you are playing with one less weapon.

It's just one more thing that a defense has to defend. To somewhat defend that, teams will have to have a spy or sit in a zone D. It will be important that we have receivers who are adept and finding the soft spots in the zone.

Once we have that, we are going to be pretty tough.

Yeah! That's what I'm talking about.

That's my quarterback, that's my teammate.

Right. And this guy knows how to do both.

In case you missed the last 10 or so years, QB's aren't big clods back there like when Bernie played. They have been running since middle school football.

Also, QB's have been getting racked up while standing in the pocket for decades, so I don't see any difference. Also, I'd bet more QB's still get hurt more in the pocket than outside.

Look at all the QB's under 30 or so. If that is the basis of your argument, you lose.

peen... ...lol..

So now you move the goal post and begin to add "stipulations" like QBs under 30 or so, in an attempt to discredit the most successful QB in NFL history...

Pocket Passer, Tom Brady

Good points. What's crazy is that Watson is a very good passer from the pocket and Baker sucks at it.

I didn't move anything. In my first post I said if you haven't noticed that over the last 10 years things have changed. Brady has been around a lot longer than that.

It's not my fault you haven't noticed and bring up old Tom Brady. And Tom Brady isn't the one I discredit.

He is and Baker does..

So watsons attorney said it shouldn't be played out in the media while he's playing it out in the media. Makes perfect sense. lmao

When did the Browns sign you to play?

Watson is definitely not a run first QB. He can run, but that is not his game.

You do realize that "old Tom Brady" is considered by almost everyone as the GOAT, right?

I'm really not disagreeing with you that the trend in the NFL hasn't been leading to more mobile QB's. To me that much is obvious. The issue that has not as of yet been resolved is how long will these more mobile QB's stand the test of time from a health standpoint? And it's certainly not going to be a one size fits all answer to that question.

You have less accurate mobile QB's like Lamar Jackson who has to depend on his legs more. Then you have QB's like watson who can perform well from the pocket and have mobility as a second option. A QB like watson has a a far greater likelihood of standing the test of time than someone like Lamar Jackson imo

Really? I didn't know that.

By reading your comments it was hard to tell one way or the other.

Brady ran a 5.28 40 before he was drafted and only got slower as he aged. He couldn't make a living with his legs if he wanted to

Damn, I never read about that part with the towel, that's kind of weird. What if the towel he brought was significantly smaller than the standard issue used for a massage?

Maybe DW loves poetry and read Charles Bukowski, as in your sig !

Being a Browns fan falls under your sig !

I'll support DW weird or not ! I don't know one not weird person in my life ever !

My preference was only for separate threads (per your point above). Both topics are important and both need space to breathe. If being relegated to the Tailgate is some Scarlet letter for conversation topics, then we can move the other thread to PF if people want. To me, the best conversation will happen while the two topics remain as separate as possible.


Regarding Watson the football player: dude is absolutely an upgrade at the position. He's what Lamar Jackson (and by extension, Harbaugh) dreams himself to be.

I was wondering about something about him and how we expect him to do, and I was hoping someone with the knowledge could chime in.

So it's well known that Watson has never played with the Oline and running game that we have here. Obviously, both of those are going to make his life easier (teams have to account for Chubb/Hunt in the backfield/deadly PA, and the Oline is going to give him cleaner pockets than he's seen probably since college). But the flip side is that he's also played with better pass-catchers than it looks like we're going to give him this year (DeAndre + Will Fuller + they had a decent TE catching passes vs Amari, ?, and Njoku). So how does that +/- work out on the field? Do they sorta cancel each other out? Does the WR situation not really matter, to an extent, when you have a QB like Watson back there?

People, people, people. The “Innocent til proven guilty” trope has nothing to do with anything outside a court of law. And the same trope can be very often wrong. So, let’s stop trotting it out there.

I'd say a foundational principle of our criminal justice system is not a trope.

And what does it have to do with outside a court of law? Corporations often avoid people with bad reputations like the plague. They lose endorsements, contracts and nobody wants anything to do with them.

And how exactly does one determine the guilt or innocence of someone in a he said/she said" case? That may not be what's considered enough evidence for a conviction, but does that really determine which one is lying and which one isn't? All that principal you speak of provides for is that someone is found not guilty. Not that they're proven innocent. It simply means that not enough evidence was brought forth to determine guilt. In a he said/she said case you have to look at other factors to make a decision in your own mind. O.J. was found not guilty and almost nobody believes he was innocent.

The NFL is the modern equivalent of gladiatorial games. No one went to the arena to see moral pillars of society. People go to see the carnage, mayhem, and spectacle.

The NFL isn't providing a physical product and the employees aren't directly providing service to customers. The employees are violent entertainers.

They provide an outlet for humanity's baser instincts.

If your business doesn't want associated with violence, they probably shouldn't be working with football in the first place.

People tend to lose sight of that aspect of football, but it is what it is.

I half expect Watson to pick up endorsements from Trojan and the gambling establishment any day now.

IMO, the reality lies somewhere in between those two extremes. I just am struggling to figure out where (and why).

No, NFL athletes in general aren't beacons of morality. But the Watson situation is/could push the limit of what we are willing to tolerate. While we (NFL fans in general) seem to be pretty tolerant of bad/criminal behavior, I also see a large portion of the fanbase drawing a line in the sand. What's more, that line is being drawn without a lot of evidence, and in such a way that a LOT of current NFL athletes have already crossed. I'm not trying to debate where different people put that line, but want to know why.