DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deshaun Watson Continued.....

According to who? watson and his attoney?

That's pretty much the way I feel about it with one distinct difference. My favorite sport to watch is the NFL. I follow and watch several teams and players. None ever had my support and loyalty like the Browns. So I will probably etch out time to watch the NFL on Sunday afternoons. The word fan was prefect in its meaning. "Fanatic". Those days are now gone. They're just 1 of 32 teams now in the NFL. Living in Nashville it has cost me paying for DirctTV or NFL Game pass. I've purchased tons of Browns gear on an annual basis. In the grand scheme of things it isn't what most people would consider a big percentage of their income, however it will be money I can now spend on other things. And yes, I'm still proud of my Joe Thomas jersey.

Now I will just choose between my locally televised games. Sure if the Browns are on I'll watch. But like I said, now they are just 1 of 32 teams and nothing more.

I know.

This post needs repeating.

No! Parroting according to popular opinions.

I am with you on this. I've stayed off this thread for quite awhile because it's so disgusting, but a thought struck me about what is occurring here. You have a poster like 888 saying things about people spamming the board or repeating themes, yet he has never said one single word about how Pit has uttered a phrase about 22 women must be lying.. LOL.........the hypocrisy is a hoot! Furthermore, look at the guys who throwing the most shade at Watson and the morals of the situation. They are the most amoral people on this board.

Here is some breaking news..........no matter how often you stamp your feet, say you won't root for the Browns, scream that a man is guilty even though he hasn't been convicted, and try to get everyone else to see things your way........it doesn't matter, because Baker is gone regardless and all your pretend temper-tantrums will never change that.

Back to telling others how and what to post I see.

Again, it seems after you reinvented history about Baker driving out OBJ and lying about a source inside the locker room that said Baker was a cancer ... and getting called out for it ... you have decided to lash out. For shame. Two posts back to back where you can't keep my name out of your post.

Some of the posts in this thread are very unsettling and don't leave me with a good feeling. I think that I'll avoid this thread from now on....

DeShaun Watson the 2022 free agent signing will equal out to, (on the field performance), something less than
What could have been
had the Browns drafted DeShaun Watson wayy back in what year he came out,
and kept him on the team
for his entire time.

Any player starting on a new team, at the same level, (the NFL level), after premiering on a different team, has less incentive to come through when the times get the hardest.

I went here tonight hoping for actual football, but as usual it gets turned into a crap fest.

I’m excited about seeing DW at the minicamp, anyone else looking forward to that? I am sure there will be a DW presser, I hope the media doesn’t spend the whole time asking him about the off-field stuff. My hopes for that aren’t very high.

Vers, I saw you responded to me over Baker's podcast that I shared. I just wanted you to know not to waste your time, because I put you on ignore after I saw you were going to stick around. And it's not that your posting in PF is particularly offensive or even that your opinions are necessarily wrong, but we have history in here, and I'd rather just keep it peaceful. If I read your posts, I would feel obligated to prove you wrong or shut you down at some point, in one of the more opinionated forums. And low and behold, you are already up to your old tricks and tbh, I don't want to see your BS. You never could stand Baker, period. And yes, you always came across like you had an anti Bake agenda. Just telling you how I and some others see it.

Happy you came back to the community though, glad you survived the pandemic while you were away too. That's all I have for you, so no need to reply or defend your position. Just move on.

So, you read his post. Odd.

https://sports.yahoo.com/deshaun-watson-risk-nfl-discipline-200934390.html

Deshaun Watson’s Risk of NFL Discipline Rises as Lawsuits Expand
Michael McCann
Fri, April 8, 2022, 4:09 PM·4 min read
In this article:

LOL This dude may never play again. At least Jimmah just threw 250 million away.

If it was one of the 22 women who rejected a financial settlements he's in even more deep trouble. New witnesses will be heard. Maybe more allegations and after that eventual new civil law suits.

Forget him fully focused on football. This doesn't look good.

Did he now offer to settle? I thought DW was the one who didn't want to settle out of court.

There's another concern that all fans should be weary of and that is the contract presumes that Watson will be suspended in 2022 or 2023. For any suspension imposed after 2023, the default language would apply, no matter what. This would include the Browns having an out of the guaranteed contract.

Other outs spelled out in the contract and here’s where it gets interesting, and potentially risky, for Watson. What if he eventually admits to having consensual sexual encounters with one or more of the 18 massage therapists who issued statements of support on his behalf? Earlier this week, a judge concluded that Watson must answer whether he did indeed have sexual encounters with any, some, or all of those 18 women.

If Watson admits to having sexual encounters with any, some, or all of those 18 women, could that get him suspended, regardless of the outcome of the investigation regarding the 22 massage therapists who accuse him of wrongdoing? The Commissioner could decide that Watson should miss games without pay as part of the effort to intervene and to resolve the behaviors that resulted in Watson repeatedly (if the evidence supports that conclusion) using massage sessions as cover for the solicitation of prostitution. In paragraph 42, Watson “represents and warrants (except as disclosed to club in writing), as of the date hereof, that (i) Player has not been charged with, indicted for, convicted of or pled nolo contender to any felony and/or misdemeanor involving fraud or moral turpitude, (ii) Player has not engaged in conduct which would subject him to a charge, indictment or conviction of any such offense, and (iii) no circumstances exist that would prevent Player’s continuing availability to the Club for the duration of this Contract.”

The important part I think people are missing is the reaction from Watson should the Browns try to void the guarantees. Considering his history - I suspect Watson demands a trade immediately if the Browns go down that path. If the Browns don't void the guarantees, what stops Watson from demanding a new coach and/or front office? You say it couldn't happen but it already has in a way with his actions in Houston. Will Watson sit out because the Browns void his guarantees or fail to put the coach or FO in place he wants?

Is this all made-up mumbo-jumbo? Where do you get this from? Certainly not that article...

The article states that two previously existing plantiffs added the additional charge of gross negligence. This has no bearing on anything other than expanding the net of punitive damages they can seek.

And SuperBrown, your response is even worse.


NFL: "Yeah, Deshuan, we were going to let you slide on the civil assault, sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, and just plain being a pervert... but gross negligence? Sorry, we're going to have to draw the line somewhere."

Welcome to the forum previously known as Pure Football.

I admire the optimism

Unfortunately, this is football stuff. Not knowing the availability of your new franchise QB couldn't be any more about football. We could talk about the WR's or lack there of, the worst rated defensive interior in the NFL in 2021 with zero upgrades to date, a huge hole at DE currently not filled and chances of an upgrade looking poorer with each passing day but none of that is talk worthy if the 230M guaranteed contract QB you have is sitting at home when the season starts. What's the importance of mini camp if the player is not going to be available? Isn't that actually football talk?

Whether you want to believe or talk about it, Watson's baggage is and will have a direct impact to the PURE FOOTBALL of the Cleveland Browns. It will be a cloud over the head of the team until it comes to its conclusion whenever that might be. It has no bearing what side of the fence you fall on in this matter, the affect that it has on the Cleveland Browns and their Pure Football ability is deeply imbedded in the baggage that comes with Watson to Cleveland.

The 22 civil suits (or the possibility of more) became a part of Pure Football due to the actions of Watson and the Cleveland Browns. Both are guilty of these self-inflicted wounds and as such has made them a part of the Pure Football talk. Ignoring it won't make it go away, support or non-support will not make it go away, or getting into a crap shoot because you don't like another's opinion won't make it go away. It's a part of the Browns and it's not going away anytime soon. This is Cleveland Browns Pure Football - get used to it because it's going to be here a while!

IMO, as far as "I have you on ignore" posts usually go, that one was pretty neutral and positive.

It's not an either/or. I've said before that he's obviously a creep, and clearly has some sort of sexual addiction. While (more than likely) this means he engaged in risky and even bad/immoral/inappropriate behavior, I'm still not clear on if he crossed 'the line' wherever that may be due to his argument of everything being consensual. Beyond that, consent for someone that is not used to hearing no (as we read from a text from his 'handler') can be a tricky thing. Not trying to defend him here, but I think I'm seeing a shift in how we look at the players and us opening ourselves up to being labeled as hypocrites.

Hopefully to clarify what I'm trying to say here.... I'm all over the place on this topic. I'm kinda not looking forward to TC, in a way. I was never naïve enough to think that every player in the NFL was a saint, or even that no player has engaged in a similar behavior as Watson. He's sticking to his guns and not trying to settle and sweep it under the rug like many before him. For me and my Browns fandom, I want to know (as much as possible) what he did and didn't actually do. For me to continue to cheer for the Browns, I gotta know that the face of the franchise doesn't habitually cross the line in terms of sexual assault.

So far nobody knows as far as I have seen if it was Watson or any of the 22 women who rejected any settlements. Maybe it was none of them.

It could be Mr Happy but if it was one of the women these civil law suits will become much more complicated then many first expected. As long as a financial package can prevent this end up inside the court room then there is a chance he can still play some part of 2022 season and maybe in the whole 2023. If there is no settlements this can potentially drag out to the end of 2023 or even 2024.

So this question is much more important then just if you or I’m right or wrong about who’s rejecting settlement or not. Remember that when you make own conclusions about other members intentions.

Except there is a forum dedicated specifically to the legal side of player issues.

Had this topic been more about how the legal issues affect his possible suspension, then it fits. But most has been about the moral, ethical and legal precedence than about how it relates to or affects the team.

It matters not what your opinion is. The facts have not been established.

We have a system of law, not mob rule by self-righteous people.

I have been trying to follow the guidelines set up in the forum descriptions (quoting from here and responding in Tailgate), but I'm slowly giving up.

If 20++ women make serious accusations about sexual misbehavior’s then that’s a fact that this person has overstepped what these women think is acceptable, guilty by the law or not is irrelevant, when these civil law suits become public information it’s a open discussion about people’s view of morality and consequences.

Both the NFL and the Browns has to adapt to some extent to the public opinion and too much negative media coverage will financially affect them if they don’t want to lose some of their customers and sponsors. In 2022 almost every relevant organization understands that they must publicly declare their values and social stance in important questions to long term keep their customers. Those who is out of touch with reality will soon be aware of that such ignorance can be costly.

You can call it a mob or whatever you like but that’s how our society works nowadays with social media and activist groups. As soon as the issue become political and a question about morality then legally right or wrong goes out of the window.

Sometimes these ”protest’s” affect innocent people but this is the world we’re living in.

Anyone one believing one man over 22 women, actually more, only 22 of the accusers filed suit, has to be a naive and agenda driven person. You believe what you want to believe and have thrown common sense out the window. No surprise there.

Which has nothing to do with watson no matter how much this lie you've repeated claims otherwise.

It's odd how so many think they know the rules as to what does and does not fit in the guidelines of Pure Football. Sadly for those who wish to control what is posted here, even the very owner of this board has replied in these threads including this one and has not moved any of these threads. It seems as though the owner of the very message board you are speaking of has decided that in the case of Deshawn Watson and his legal issues, it is directly tied to the team, his availability to play and can directly impact the team.

All of the whining and bickering to the contrary obviously holds no value. There is a thread about Deshawn's play if you really wish to avoid this part of the discussion which induces some deep needed and overwhelming desire to complain about it being here.

I'm just sayin...Guy may be finished AND should be finished!...Laugh all you want!

Says a guy who is the biggest perpetrator of the problem and has spent 3 threads repeating the same tired lines over and over.

The person who owns this board disagrees with you on whether this belongs here or not. I have a suggestion for you. Since you seem to be so fascinated with whether these threads belong here, maybe you should take your own advice. You do realize there is a forum dedicated to addressing the Refs as to what goes on here, right? Fan Feedback. Since you hate to see threads you deem imappropriate in the Pure Football Forum, maybe it's you who should be addressing that concern in the proper forum. Just food for thought.

Watson is currently not yet suspended, therefore, it's entirely not a thing, until it would become a thing, there is no sense discussing it.

However, many are not highlighting that Watson Already had to miss the entirety of the 2021 season, and imo, it was because his Team Owner was railroading him, therefore he's already been punished 16 games of his career (17), as time served, for allegations that couldn't even gather a trial by a grand jury.

(.. That means absolutely nothing TL? ... NO! because eventually, the NFL, can face NLRB culpability for denying the guy a chance to make a living at his chosen profession in as much as they are a sanctioned Monopoly in the US. )

However! A /any potential suspension of Watson, as a primary QB of the Browns being a drawback to the Browns 2022 season, only PALES IN COMPARISION, to the Monolith that is the Browns!!! Eschewing Continuity! and again changing changes, for the sake of change, and issuing a COMPLETE rebuild, of the Starting Quarterback, and Number 1 WR, (plus the #2 WR, Plus the most reliable WR Higgins)
So OBJ, Jarvis Landry, and Rashard Higgins are all GONE! and they, (the Browns) (( who seem to lack any plan they can stick to for more than 20 months, EVER! ! ! ! ! )) ,,, Have once again, chosen a complete redirection of philosophy over any sense of team identity.

That monolith, of Rebuild, will have a much higher impact on the drawback to Browns success in 2022, than any allegations raised against D.Watson.

Again with the 20 month rebuilds, and what it is likened to. ( And the Browns apparently, evidently have gone from in April of 2021 following/ imitating anything the Bucs would do, (i.e. they took Ohio State DL, because the Bucs were rumored to like him, plus a couple of their pre draft moves were rumored to be liked by the Bucs, (buccaneers)
to All of a sudden in 2022, the Browns are imitating the Rams, by giving up all draft picks in hopes not using first rounders will lead to success, because that is what the Rams did...

What can it be likened to. Every year "teams" win super bowls, ONe TEam rather, the team that wins. And Every year those teams tend to have some things in common, and one of the things they have in common is an Identity. ( I!! dentity)

So What it is likened to, when the Browns change course in 20 months or less, every time since whenever.

There are 32 teams, and they have 32 identitys, all trying for a magical experience, that somehow translates into that special something that equals winning it all on a given year.
Imagine, each team is trying to have a Wonderful experience, a 'moment in time' so to speak, that can be authentic, Pure, and has the staying power of having stayed the course to be the one experience that makes it all the way to the Trophe.
So!
What are some magical experiences, some moments in time, and what do the Browns do to mess it all up by being (sidetracked, enamored, or tricked into falling in love, with a new idea, on about every 20 months.)

A Disney Vacation, A wedding day, A Childs Graduation, Christmas day opening presents, Halloween, The fireworks on the 4th of July.

So, perhaps, every year, a team wins the super bow, ( A birthday party) , because a team stuck with a plan, an identity, a focus, and created the #1 experience, that special something that worked out, to the be the BEST special something that year.

And what the Browns do, by making changes every 20 months, can be likened to changing philosophy, trying to chase a magical experience of a DIFFERENT KIND, right in the middle of their team identity.
So For example.

The Browns chase a wedding day, and fall in love with a beautiful Christmas Tree, a Lush Green Pine tree, it's got really great needles and it comes pre decorated, and they plop that Christmas tree right down on the middle of the dance floor at the wedding toast on the wedding day and wonder why the experience goes over like a lead balloon.

Or they fall in love with a beautiful Grand Finale of Fireworks display, and they set if off right in the middle of their Halloween display with straw and candy corn and Scarecrows and wonder why a fire breaks out and it all goes to squat.

If you can't stick with one plan, one team identity, one philosophy, you are not ever going to have the best team, and that is the bottom line.
and I don't care How much money they spend, or how much they monopolize talent, it's just Football,
it's been evident, over a lifetimes history of the league,
Football, is a little bit different,
Football! it's a whole team, it's 22 players plus, on every gameday, it's a whole philosophy, a whole identity, that works into something magical,
and it's not something that can be constructed overnight, at least not when the competition knows how to assemble theirs' with time, and continuity
it's not Basketball, it's not the business world, and it's not baseball,
Football is a little bit different,
and to find that special something, a team has to believe in itself, in it's direction, A team has to have a Faith in it's Own Makeup, and it's own NAME, (****)

It cannot just chase butterflies, or snipes, or change course every time the wind blows or the weather report changes.
Doing the same thing, sticking with a plan to fruition might not always work (because the good teams are so close in the end it comes down to chance about like the similarity in cars in Nascar)
But we know what doesn't work. We know that constant new faces is not a path to ultimate success.

Guess what! It's a rebuilding year. Thanks, Go Team!

Great post Throw Long!

As long as I has followed team sports most successful clubs’s (Europe)and organization’s (US) has a couple of ingredients that they have in common.

1. A clear and visible philosophy.
2. A friendly environment built on discipline, hard work, trust and loyalty.
3. A winning culture that’s a mix of the above together with driven athletes and coaches who never accept second best.

When I look at the Browns and how they operate I don’t see much of the above.

I'll take "Posts I Never Thought I'd see in my Lifetime" for 400, Alex.