OBJ forced OBJ out of town. He allegedly was wondering about getting out of Cleveland right after he landed.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
It's too bad that Baker's ego forced OBJ out of town. He was an excellent deep threat. He proved it before he got here and then again, after he left here.
You've been back - miraculously turning up as soon as Baker was going to be an Ex-Brown... You've spammed the board with more negative Baker posts and comments than anyone on the board including your latest "Bake Show" thread to revive and needlessly continue the Baker criticisms.... And here you are with revisionist history trying to create an entirely provable lie and fake narrative about OBJ who is on record from multi reliable sources as never wanting to be here. You left for a while but I guess a leopard doesn't change its spots.
I agree that OBJ wasn't blameless leading up to his departure. At the same time, can you blame him really? His career has been rather adversely affected by the Browns. He made the Pro Bowl his first three seasons in the league. He averaged over 1,300 yards and double-digit TDs. In year 4, a Browns DB obliterates his knee in a preseason game, and later he hurts that leg gruesomely which puts him out for the season. He hasn't started for an entire season since then. While Baker's 6-7 rookie season was encouraging to us, it probably wasn't nearly as impressive to outsiders. We'd fired Hue and brought in a relatively unknown good ole boy to be HC. We weren't exactly the place to be, even without the emotional baggage. Throw in the fact that Cleveland is definitely not New York or LA lifestyle-wise. He was injured fairly frequently and when he was healthy and open Baker struggled to get him the ball.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I mean this sincerely, so please don't flame me....
Was this guy really so bad? I do get hit in the head a lot (adult league hockey goalie) so am I just forgetting a ton of horrible kicks? I don't recall this guy being Zane-Gonzalez-losing-3-games-in-a-row bad, or anything like that. He was a rookie, as well.
Just going from recollection, but I think he started off the season really well, and his kicking issues came later in the season. I do not know if it was weather-related, or if he missed a couple and it got into his head.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
It's too bad that Baker's ego forced OBJ out of town. He was an excellent deep threat. He proved it before he got here and then again, after he left here.
You've been back - miraculously turning up as soon as Baker was going to be an Ex-Brown... You've spammed the board with more negative Baker posts and comments than anyone on the board including your latest "Bake Show" thread to revive and needlessly continue the Baker criticisms.... And here you are with revisionist history trying to create an entirely provable lie and fake narrative about OBJ who is on record from multi reliable sources as never wanting to be here. You left for a while but I guess a leopard doesn't change its spots.
Versatile Dog is a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes To football X and Os and talent evaluation. He is a die hard fan of this franchise and the one I.like About him, he isnt a homer. He calls like a umpire Down the middle. No agenda
I think that perspective doesn't marry with some of the facts that have been established about how proactively OBJ was trying to get out of CLE and when... And it diminishes the impact of OBJ injuries and the KS offense which OBJ was part of. It also seems to suggest that any player on any team should be allowed to seek an exit from his team and contact if they are in a situation they don't like and if their performance is hampered by team mates....regardless of that, if you want to believe OBJ was justified in seeking a trade virtually on arrival, that's up to yoi... I'll repeat the narrative that Baker's ego drove OBJ to want to leave CLE is 100% false.
Last edited by mgh888; 04/06/2202:06 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
It's too bad that Baker's ego forced OBJ out of town. He was an excellent deep threat. He proved it before he got here and then again, after he left here.
You've been back - miraculously turning up as soon as Baker was going to be an Ex-Brown... You've spammed the board with more negative Baker posts and comments than anyone on the board including your latest "Bake Show" thread to revive and needlessly continue the Baker criticisms.... And here you are with revisionist history trying to create an entirely provable lie and fake narrative about OBJ who is on record from multi reliable sources as never wanting to be here. You left for a while but I guess a leopard doesn't change its spots.
Versatile Dog is a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes To football X and Os and talent evaluation. He is a die hard fan of this franchise and the one I.like About him, he isnt a homer. He calls like a umpire Down the middle. No agenda
Thanks, but I'd rather just move on. He's not worth the time.
I think that perspective doesn't marry with some of the facts that have been established about how proactively OBJ was trying to get out of CLE and when... And it diminishes the impact of OBJ injuries and the KS offense which OBJ was part of. It also seems to suggest that any player on any team should be allowed to seek an exit from his team and contact if they are in a situation they don't like and if their performance is hampered by team mates....regardless of that, if you want to believe OBJ was justified in seeking a trade virtually on arrival, that's up to yoi... I'll repeat the narrative that Baker's ego drove OBJ to want to leave CLE is 100% false.
Not 100% true, but not 100% false, either. Baker was a factor, and perhaps the tipping point. OBJ had plenty of other reasons as well as I said.
I never said I liked the way OBJ left, nor that I'm pining for him to come back.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
This isn't really a big deal and I will end my comments about the OBJ thing w/this. OBJ's camp has claimed that he wanted out of Cleveland because of Baker. They claimed that Baker would not throw him the ball, even in practice. They claimed it was due to ego and Baker needed to be the star. They also claimed that he was far too slow going through his progressions. Furthermore, OBJ has expressed at least some interest in returning to Cleveland. There are some guys I don't want to talk to on here, so I thought I'd explain my position to you. But again, it's not really a big deal because one guy is gone and the other is about to be.
This isn't really a big deal and I will end my comments about the OBJ thing w/this. OBJ's camp has claimed that he wanted out of Cleveland because of Baker. They claimed that Baker would not throw him the ball, even in practice. They claimed it was due to ego and Baker needed to be the star. They also claimed that he was far too slow going through his progressions. Furthermore, OBJ has expressed at least some interest in returning to Cleveland. There are some guys I don't want to talk to on here, so I thought I'd explain my position to you. But again, it's not really a big deal because one guy is gone and the other is about to be.
I haven't heard those things from OBJ's camp. If their statements are true that explains a lot, especially the way the locker room backed OBJ.
Browns insider Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com delivered somewhat of a bombshell after Beckham's release when she reported the veteran, who is celebrating his 29th birthday Friday, "asked to be traded multiple times, including in the offseason when he was coming off surgery to repair a torn ACL."
Beckham suffered that season-ending injury in October 2020.
It's been said the Browns couldn't move Beckham ahead of the trade deadline because no other buyer wanted to be on the hook for the reported $8.05 million remaining on his salary for this season, so it's safe to assume money was also an issue if Cleveland reached out to other teams about OBJ during the spring or summer months when he was still recovering from his torn ACL.
Whatever the case, Beckham and the Browns have broken up, and each entity will have opportunities to prove the other wrong moving forward.
Not much doubt about OBjr wanting out of Cleveland long before his father did Jr a favor with his video release, that imo was a coordinated attempt to get the Browns to move. Our front office had a half year to fix that problem and they allowed the situation to fester and spill over into the locker room. Dumb move by the Boys in the front office.
Also, OBJ was so determined to push his way out of Cleveland, him and his crew were will to do and say anything to force the Browns to move him...
No doubt that OBJ wanted out before this past season. The rift between Baker and OBJ started a long time ago. When your QB's ego is so large and he is so emotionally insecure that he didn't even want to throw OBJ the ball in practice, of course the latter wanted out.
It is also noteworthy that a lot of posters trashed OBJ's dad for what he did, but I doubt the articles on how Baker's wife trashed the Brown's WRs even made it to this board. Double standards by the Cleveland Baker crowd.
Additionally, Brown's players voiced support for OBJ when that all went down yet none have supported Baker. But, let's continue w/the false narrative that some have on this board.
I don't think the "boys" in the FO are dumb. I think they recognized that their QB was a problem and made a good move to upgrade the position. I just wish OBJ was still here to play w/a quality qb.
In regards to proving the other wrong moving forward, I'd say OBJ's Super Bowl ring and him being the leading candidate for Super Bowl MVP and not one single team willing to pay Baker below average starting QB money puts OBJ miles ahead of Baker.
OBJ did nothing here, and it wouldn't have mattered which of our QBs was throwing to him. He was and is a diva who wanted out. Jarvis is/was twice the player and ten times the man. Baker might not have been the franchise QB we dreamed of, but he wasn't that bad and doesn't deserve the hate he is getting. But we all understand agendas around here.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
OBJ never wanted to be here. Jay Glazer reported as such. Glazer may be more reliable than Schefter.
Baker is an average to below average QB. Thrilled the Browns upgraded.
OBJ is a brand. Brands aren't built in CLE. I'm okay with this. Shame on Dorsey for getting fleeced by an absolute garbage GM in Dave Gettleman.
The story of OBJ being interested in coming back to CLE is based on an "eyes emoji" that he retweeted from a fan. The media ran with it for a conversation starter.
The Browns are better moving forward without Baker and OBJ.
OBJ was never a fit here, especially with Baker. It was pretty easy to see right from the beginning; they never meshed.
I can’t see him coming back here, even without Baker
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Something was definitely off. I can’t remember who it was that posted an awesome video prior to last season, but the video did a great job at breaking down how the two of them interpreted coverage completely opposite. He didn’t really lay blame, but just cited how the coverage shifted into a single high safety, for instance, and then OBJ would go for a 7 route, while Baker would throw for a 5 route or something like that.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
It's too bad that Baker's ego forced OBJ out of town. He was an excellent deep threat. He proved it before he got here and then again, after he left here.
Pretty sure Baker had virtually nothing to do with OBJ leaving.. More likely the ego of OBJ and his Father.., OBJ would be worthless this year again given his injury..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
We don't need a #2 WR that's not going to be ready for TC due to another injury. Pass on OBJ.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
OBJ is easy to figure out..he has a track record..!!.
If jr is happy, he plays well...his home is in California and he never wanted to play in Cleveland where their recent claim to fame was a 1-31 record. I always thought he wanted to be close to home and with his buddies in LA and where he could better handle his off the field business agenda...nailed it.
If jr is "unhappy", he can be a very divisive figure, finding someone else to blame for his lack of production, playing the victim card, manipulating the locker room and the media to his advantage. Everyone was witness to the kind of crazy behavior Ojr was capable of, on and off the field, playing for the Giants. Also, Jr's off the field business agenda had become a growing priority and playing in Cleveland was not a plus for Jr.
Dorsey screwed up BIG TIME, bringing someone like Jr to Cleveland at a time when the Browns were trying to develop a young QB. Mayfield was popular with the fans and beginning to land some endorsement contracts and the media wanted to discuss Mayfield. That did not sit well with Jr.
Just like in NY, Jr had a difficult time sharing the spotlight with a popular QB. So, we saw a repeat of Jrs NY performance here in Cleveland and the current front office allowed the situation to continue and grow, failing to act on Jrs desire to get the hell out of Cleveland...it affecting the locker room and season.
No way do I want anything to do with Jr back in Cleveland..he is a 29 yr old receiver who has the knees of a 40 yr old and his record indicates that he can be a "team player"..only when he wants to be.
I disagree on one point. I think Dorsey bringing OBJ here helped bring a feeling of legitimacy for the team and FO in the eyes of the rest of the sports nation. It was a huge story on all the major sports shows. It was a sign to the league we were trying to change the losing attitude. I think it helped us recruit other top FAs. The rest of the OBJ drama was on brand for OBJ.
This board has always written its own version of history. OBJ is a bad guy and Baker is a good guy. Yet, their actual teammates voiced support for OBJ and none have for Baker. In fact, the reports are out there that Baker was a problem in the locker room. But, none of that matters. It's the dawgtalkers version of history that speaks the real truth. LOL
This board has always written its own version of history. OBJ is a bad guy and Baker is a good guy. Yet, their actual teammates voiced support for OBJ and none have for Baker. In fact, the reports are out there that Baker was a problem in the locker room. But, none of that matters. It's the dawgtalkers version of history that speaks the real truth. LOL
OBJ *IS* a bad guy in this case, there is absolutely, 1000% no debate to the fact that he NEVER wanted to be here and ALWAYS wanted out, and NOWHERE have ANY reports of Baker being a problem in the lockerroom shown up here... and pretty much *everything* Browns shows up here, *especially* on the divisive topics. Basically, the ONLY thing there is, so far, is you manufacturing some things here and there within the past couple of days and spouting totally unsubstantiated stuff as fact.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
The only thing I’ve seen or heard about Baker in a negative way were the comments Jim Donovan made about teammates not being happy with him after the week 18 game.
This board has always written its own version of history. OBJ is a bad guy and Baker is a good guy. Yet, their actual teammates voiced support for OBJ and none have for Baker. In fact, the reports are out there that Baker was a problem in the locker room. But, none of that matters. It's the dawgtalkers version of history that speaks the real truth. LOL
OBJ publicly stated many times that all he wanted to do was win and he was willing to do whatever it took to achieve that objective. So last year in the off-season, with the Browns the media darling that almost everybody had making a serious playoff run and potentially competing for a super bowl... he asked to be traded. So much for just wanting to win....
And I heard rumblings of trouble in the locker room following his trade but it wasn't because Baker was acting up or being unprofessional, it was because so many of the younger players just adored the OBJ personna. I have not heard a single thing about Baker not putting in the work, about Baker being disrespectful to other players or bad mouthing anybody, or anything like that. If you have, I'd be interested to see it.
Well, not that I agree or disagree, but those are bean counters. I don't trust bean counters, as they only see numbers.
Perfect example: Where my wife works, her department was deemed (by the CFO) as a money loser. They shut down the 3rd shift of that department, and wen to only first shift. Now, her department was "returns and replacement parts", you know, customers that bought the product but there were missing pieces, or in most cases, parts broken.
The chief bean counter looked at the numbers for her department and said "that's a money loser, shut it down". What that bean counter didn't realize was, it was needed.
Wife has now been, of her own volition, putting in 60 hour weeks on first shift. 15 of those hours are 1 1/2 times her regular wage, the other 5 are twice her regular wage.
And the bean counter is still upset that cutting 3rd shift has resulted in higher costs for the company.
What he doesn't get is, that department is a necessity for the company. He just sees the expenses involved, with no revenue.
Bean counters do just that: Look at a computer, with no knowledge of the "why's".
This board has always written its own version of history. OBJ is a bad guy and Baker is a good guy. Yet, their actual teammates voiced support for OBJ and none have for Baker. In fact, the reports are out there that Baker was a problem in the locker room. But, none of that matters. It's the dawgtalkers version of history that speaks the real truth. LOL
OBJ *IS* a bad guy in this case, there is absolutely, 1000% no debate to the fact that he NEVER wanted to be here and ALWAYS wanted out, and NOWHERE have ANY reports of Baker being a problem in the lockerroom shown up here... and pretty much *everything* Browns shows up here, *especially* on the divisive topics. Basically, the ONLY thing there is, so far, is you manufacturing some things here and there within the past couple of days and spouting totally unsubstantiated stuff as fact.
If you swing and miss on a first pick qb it can set you back three years or more.
I just saw the discussion on "Move the Sticks". At the end Bucky Brooks said he thought that the price is justified and it could cost more and still be justified.
Dan Orlovsky's belief is there is no quarterback that he feels plays better than Watson. He believes that there are like eight top guys that you can win games because of their play.
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