DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Browns being investigated for tanking

This is probably a whole lot of nothing.

Hue Jackson, the gift that keeps on giving ...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/04/18/browns-investigation-alleged-tanking

....like herpes.

When you hire Sashi Brown as a GM , its a clear sign.your not trying to win.

Where in the NFL rules does it say that a bad team must try, as much as possible, to win a few games?

The cold waters of Lake Erie made the next season a parade

would you rather tank or sank

in the cold waters of Lake Erie

This is ridiculous !!

This is my question as well.

me too

It may not be in any rule book, but it is in federal and state statute.

Shaving points is illegal. How is that different than a team throwing games? I doubt this goes anywhere because proving the intent was to lose would be pretty hard to prove. Teams purge rosters all the time for a number of reasons.

I wonder what would happen to the Texans if we lost next year's first-round pick lol

Probably nothing since we no longer own a 1st round pick.

Whats next? Are they going to investigate Nick Chubb for bulldozing other teams defenses?

We didn't need to tank - we had Hue Jackson as coach....

Hue's ego and mouth is what will get us out of this. He will never admit to not giving us his best effort, even though it resulted in the worst coaching performance in NFL history. He and Sashi were probably the worst HC/FO duo of all time. Both should have been fired after 1-31 or sooner. But if we were really trying to tank, Sashi would have made sure the fax machine was plugged in.

It will be interesting to see. I think we still technically have the 1st pick and we just trade away the rights for the Texans to use it.

I could see the NFL doing something like this to make the trade void a day before the draft lol.

I don't think that is possible. The trade has gone through. We don't have a 1st round pick.

That doesn't even get in to the fact I doubt it would happen even if we did have a 1st rounder.

Wouldn't that throw a monkey wrench into the works! On the otherhand, better one day before the draft as opposed to one day after....

I would argue that hiring and having Clueless Hubris Jackson as your head coach was the very essence of tanking.

The most obvious tank in the NFL was the colts going for Luck. Why wasnt that investigated?

This is the text of the article from the link Dave provided above.


Browns Being Investigated for Alleged Tanking

Mary Jo White, who is also investigating Brian Flores’s claim that he was offered money to lose games in Miami, is leading the investigation.

GARY GRAMLING AND CONOR ORR - 19 HOURS AGO

The NFL has opened an investigation into allegations that the Cleveland Browns provided incentives to then–head coach Hue Jackson to lose games during the 2016 and ’17 seasons.

In an emailed statement, the league confirmed that former Securities and Exchange Commission chair Mary Jo White, of Debevoise & Plimpton LLP, is leading an independent probe into allegations made by Jackson in February. “The review is ongoing and is expected to conclude soon,” wrote an NFL spokesperson.

White has also been hired by the league to investigate the Miami Dolphins in light of Brian Flores’s claim that he was offered $100,000 per loss by owner Stephen Ross during the 2019 season.

Reached by Sports Illustrated for comment, Jackson said, “Two years ago I tried to do this the right way, through the bylaws and constitution of the National Football League, to ask them to investigate the Cleveland Browns for all the allegations that I’ve made. So why open an investigation now?”

A Browns spokesperson sent the following statement: “Even though Hue recanted his allegations a short time after they were made, it was important to us and to the integrity of the game to have an independent review of the allegations. We welcomed an investigation and we are confident the results will show, as we’ve previously stated, that these allegations are categorically false. We have fully cooperated with Mary Jo White and look forward to the findings.”

The Browns, under the guidance of owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam, Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown and Jackson, compiled a 1–15 record in ’16, followed by a 0–16 mark in ’17. Brown was fired on Dec. 7, 2017. Jackson was fired on October 29, 2018, after starting his third season 2-5-1.

In March 2021, Jackson told ESPN 850 in Cleveland that, “There’s no doubt I was lied to by ownership and leadership of the team. They were going to be football plus analytics, but it was football vs. analytics.”

The personnel department and coaching staff reportedly butted heads frequently during those two-plus seasons, with disagreements stemming from, among other things, the jettisoning of veterans including Joe Haden, Demario Davis and Mitchell Schwartz, each of whom were selected to Pro Bowls after leaving the Browns, and the decision to restrict spending in free agency.

Jackson is currently in his first year as the head coach at Grambling University.

BREAKING - CLEVELAND BROWNS

BY GARY GRAMLING AND CONOR ORR
link

I agree. I just think at the time they may have considered that a one time thing. It seems as though it's become more common and it isn't a good look for the business. I also agree as some have said that it would be hard to prove and I'm not sure what rule it is that it would break.

I do think in the interest of competition and playoff implications if you have a team in your division tanking it gives the other teams in your division two more wins which would certainly favor them having a better record which may impact having a home field advantage in the playoffs.

It all has to do with what Hue said. If Hue doesn't make those accusations there isn't an investigation. The fact Hue backtracked his accusations makes this investigation just for show imo.

You mean the year four teams did their best to "suck for luck", as the whole world watched?

I don't necessarily agree that this is all for show on Hue's part.

This comment below is the key:

Reached by Sports Illustrated for comment, Jackson said, “Two years ago I tried to do this the right way, through the bylaws and constitution of the National Football League, to ask them to investigate the Cleveland Browns for all the allegations that I’ve made. So why open an investigation now?”

IF Hue did try to report to NFL there should be records to confirm this..records from the NFL and/or Hue should provide the evidence to back up the accusation being made by Hue.

There was documentation and Hue's charity foundation Executive Director, Kimberly Diemert, posted the NDA documents. Hue has already walked backed the statement numerous times to various national media outlets.

Like PDawg said, this is all for show and the Browns welcome it. A big yawn.

Hue's a clown. It won't be long until he gets himself fired from Grambling State.

Pretty much....

There was speculation by some posters and even me to a point that they were tanking to get a QB.... But in the end, I doubt it..

We weren't specifically "tanking", but by the same token we knew we'd be bad by virtue of stripping our roster down to reset our Cap situation while getting younger. It wasn't the plan to be bad, but it was a known and expected side effect, which is why they warned us about having patience with their plan.

There is a big difference between what Hue is claiming and what reality was.

I guess to me there isn't much difference between tanking and rebuilding.

Some might call it tanking, some rebuilding. I think everybody understands it is pretty easy to get stuck as a 6-7 win team. Free agency really changed a teams ability to build through the draft if you sit back and take the picks given to you if are a 7 win team

Go follow Hue at Grambling.

You don't know what Hue said or didn't say. You don't know what the FO did or didn't do.

But I'll bet the FO told Hue to have rookie Deshaun Kizer throw 50 passes a game.

Here's a great article on how Huebris the qb whisperer destroyed a young man's career.

SI

Destroying A Quarterback, The DeShone Kizer Debacle

Being waived this week by the Las Vegas Raiders, DeShone Kizer's career in the NFL may be coming to an end. And because of how he was handled by the Cleveland Browns and particularly Hue Jackson, he may have been doomed from the start.

PETE SMITHMAY 6, 2020

DeShone Kizer was unceremoniously waived by the Las Vegas Raiders this week. The Cleveland Browns second round pick of the 2017 NFL Draft is 24 years old and he's been on three teams in four years. While first round picks Myles Garrett and David Njoku are having their fifth-year options being picked up by the Browns and Jabrill Peppers by the the New York Giants, Kizer's career in the NFL may well be over, going out with a whimper; a combination of a poor decision and gross mishandling by the team that selected him.

Kizer opted to declare for the 2017 NFL Draft with the possibility he could be a first round pick. And going in the second round certainly wasn't a failure. It was probably still early for him, but it was far more reasonable. He wasn't ready to be in the NFL. He wasn't particularly good in college at Notre Dame. Kizer had great size, mobility and tools for the position including a strong arm and some truly special throws along the way that made him an attractive prospect. Kizer was selected by a team that seemed to understand where he was in his development, save for the head coach, Hue Jackson.

When he was drafted, Sashi Brown, the Executive Vice President of the team at the time noted the team intended to let Kizer sit and develop, trying to put him in a position to succeed. But as minicamps and training camp got going, Hue Jackson kept talking up Kizer's ability and progress, which proved to be hollow excuses to tell everyone how great he was as a coach.

The team released Robert Griffin III, the team's veteran quarterback option they signed the year before who missed much of the year due to injury. Josh McCown was released as Jackson thought he'd be a really great coach, but didn't think he was good enough to play any longer. McCown signed with the New York Jets and had a year the Browns would've killed for in 2017. Efficient, he helped a pretty bad Jets team win five games of the thirteen games he played that year.

Last but not least, the Browns let go of Brock Osweiler. Osweiler was acquired in a trade with the Houston Texans as a massive salary dump that allowed the Browns to move up from the fourth round of the 2018 NFL Draft to the second round. Osweiler was already fully paid for the 2017 season, regardless of what the Browns would do. Cutting him didn't save the team a dime and keeping him wouldn't have cost them a dollar more. Nevertheless, cut.

Despite the fact he had a very young, very raw quarterback, Jackson and the Browns released any meaningful potential support system within the quarterback room in the form of veterans, moving on from Griffin, McCown and Osweiler in favor of second-year quarterbacks Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan. Kessler was a third round pick by the Browns in 2016 and Hogan was a fifth round pick in 2016, picked by the Kansas City Chiefs, who they had waived.

Jackson believed in his ability to teach and coach Kizer so much that he thought he was all that Kizer needed. In some ways, it seemed Jackson wanted his voice to be the only one they heard. David Lee, the quarterbacks coach of the Browns in 2017 came out and said he thought Kizer wasn't ready. Along with the front office, one of Jackson's own assistants didn't think Kizer was ready to play. Jackson ignored them because he knew better. Lee was let go after the 2017 season.

Kizer had a pretty good debut in preseason against the New Orleans Saints. He completed 11 of 18 passes for 184 yards and a touchdown, including a 45-yard touchdown pass to Jordan Payton and a 52-yard pass to Richard Mullaney. It was against a third string defense, but it was a positive step for Kizer. It should've been the type of competition he faced that year and little else.

Kizer went 8 for 13 for 74 yards and ran for 35 yards against the New York Giants the second week of preseason, playing against the second string. Despite actually doing very little, the fanfare and anticipation grew. Against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Kizer completed just six passes on 18 attempts and threw an interception.

This should have been the wake up call Jackson needed. However talented he might have thought Kizer was, it was clear he wasn't there yet, which is no shame for Kizer as a player or Jackson as a coach. But Jackson had gotten so drunk on his own ambition and unwavering belief he could will Kizer into a franchise quarterback, he couldn't turn back and announced him the starter for the season.

For so much of camp and early into the 2017 season, Jackson was effusive with praise for Kizer, saying he had the tools to be a franchise quarterback and that he was the man to get that out of him. After the Pittsburgh Steelers game to start the season, Jackson was convinced everything was going to click into place and Kizer would get better and better throughout the year.

Going 20 of 30 for 222 yards with a touchdown and an interception in a game the Browns lost 21-18 to the Steelers, it seemed like maybe Kizer could figure it out. Unfortunately, that game was arguably the best Kizer played that season and the rest of the year was a slow, painful trickle downward.

And while Jackson's delusions with Kizer were misguided and he was setting this poor 21-year old kid to fail as a rookie, it didn't make Jackson a bad guy. It wasn't until Jackson came to the conclusion that Kizer wasn't the franchise quarterback he built him up to be, that he proclaimed to the world he could create that he became one. When Jackson made that turn, it revealed a truly ugly side.

Kizer didn't make any proclamations. He was humble throughout the process, just trying to find his way in the NFL and adjust to that life. It really did seem too much for him initially, because he was a 21-year old kid born in Toledo and had the hopes of an entire fanbase resting on him, amplified by his coach out there with a megaphone telling anyone who would listen how great he was going to be.

Fans are allowed to be unrealistic and overzealous in their belief that a rookie quarterback who completed a third of his passes against an NFL defense could go out there and start. The head coach wasn't. And the head coach wasn't supposed to actively destroy any potential support system around him in the process, save for himself.

That's when the yo-yoing began. Kizer was benched. And at that point, there seemed like maybe an epiphany was reached, that Kizer wasn't ready, that he needed to learn and simply adjust to this new NFL reality. But as losses piled up and Jackson realized that the quarterback room he assembled was woefully inadequate to the task of starting, he went through the quarterbacks like a batting order, going from one to the next.

These three young quarterbacks were just trying to survive and they are being put into and taken out of games to the point where it lost all meaning. It might as well have been a random number generator each week.

The Browns finish 0-16. All these quarterbacks were effectively damaged goods in Cleveland for it and moved to other teams, almost as acts of mercy. Kizer was traded to the Green Bay Packers for Damarious Randall. Kessler was traded to the Jacksonville Jaguars for a conditional seventh round pick in 2019. Hogan was waived.

The NFL is a cold, often unforgiving machine that rolls on regardless of how many young men it chews up and spits out along the way. It's possible that Kizer was never going to be successful in the NFL based on his skill set and the issues he had coming into the NFL. His stints with the Packers and Raiders could be evidence of that. It's also possible that Kizer could've been drafted to a team with a coach that cared about the person first and the player second. And had he been developed for a few years, he'd be 24 years with three seasons under his belt, just 11 months older than the top pick of the 2020 NFL Draft Joe Burrow. There might be a team that would be excited to have him. Regardless of the truth, DeShone Kizer deserved better than Hue Jackson.

If this is the case, well Indianapolis is target No. 1.

Remember "Suck for Luck"... and Curtis Painter?????

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Suck%20for%20Luck

I guess I'm in the minority here but I think the Browns absolutely tanked on purpose and thought that was rather obvious. (?)

No matter what I don't think anything much will come of the investigation.

Like I said. You can call it tanking or you can call it rebuilding.

I wouldn't be opposed to a weighted lottery much like the NBA. But as I said before, with the size of a NFL team, salary cap, free agency and the number of picks you get every year, it's hard for a 5-6-7 win team to really build all that much through the draft.

Maybe there needs to be a little more incentive to win....maybe more salary cap based on wins.

2017 our QB was what? Kizer, Hogan, and Kessler? We didn't need to purposely tank... with that grouping there was no way we're winning more than 2 games...