DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid ~ Part 10

Oh, cry me a river, snowflake. Any morsel of information you don't like is misinformation. All of that is FACT, so buzz off.

Only you don't give actual information. No sources to back up what you are saying. That's the only way to know who did these studies, if they were limited and what the actual data behind the studies were.

So I don't think it's so much about actual information as it is you just spouting things out that nobody knows if it's information or not. I mean you're not still talking about all that crazy BS about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are you?

It says hospitalizations are down 2% over past 14 days. Was that the point you were trying to make?

No. At least not officially. I did get sick in February of 2020. Very sick. As did my girlfriend. I had been in and out of a local nursing home multiple times in the weeks leading up to them having a massive outbreak. It was the first facility in the city to get hammered by it. They ended up getting shut down by the government.
At the time no one knew what COVID was. There was no test. I just stayed home until I felt well enough to back to work. By that time we were all in PPE. I’ve been masked at work since.

Well, Pitt, I've never mentioned ANYTHING about either treatment. In fact, if you find any evidence of that b.s. you just blatantly LIED about, I'll quit this place forever.

Furthermore, I have no idea what hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin have to do with anything I posted... But that's par for the course, isn't it? Pit and his never-ending, goalpost moving, verbal vomit... in digital form.

Go make 500 more posts about 22 women, you're not qualified to speak with the adults here.

I look forward to the day when you can actually add something intelligent and meaningful to the conversation. Til then we just have to tolerate your ignorant drivel.

So what studies ARE you talking about? You see, just throwing out vague, blanket statements such as those holds no meaning.


Do you mind giving a link to your source.? Like I said, just throwing out blanket statements with no sources is nothing more than an accusation at that point.


If that's true it certainly would not prevent me speaking with you. I'm sorry you have a problem doing the math on that one.

I'm sorry you don't understand how the spread of a virus works. It's up in 20 states and as a virus spreads that increase in turn will spread to other states.That's how it's worked with every new strain. We've been through this so many times before I thought you would have understood that by now.

Go ahead and admit you LIED about me making previous statements about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin and I'll respond... Until then, pound salt.

Those studies were brought up on this board by many. So asking if that's still what you are referring to is a legitimate question. And you still refuse to explain what you were referring to. I understand.

That's what I thought. Have a nice day. Google it all yourself and ignore the results, just as you have for two years.

It's not my job to try and prove your points. That's not how any of this is supposed to work.

So they are up in some states and down in others. Sounds typical. Overall hospitalizations are down. Sounds like a good thing to me.

Cold you really need to take seriously the advice of Abraham Lincoln. Better to remain quiet and thought the fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

You de realize that Lincoln got shot in the back of the head, right?

I prefer my heroes not to have been shot in the back of the head.

Quick side note… COVID is hammering my friend group right now. I have a buddy (vaccinated) that leads a band. They played Saturday night to a full house. He’s now tested positive. As have many of my friends that attended. Unfortunately one of those infected is my artistic partner and his wife (also vaccinated). He and I work together on the weekends. I worked with him last Saturday, before the show. I won’t be working with him this weekend, which sucks because we have a major project due to be on a truck heading for the east coast in 3 weeks. Not working this weekend is going to put us up against it to get it done on time.

Everyone that I’m aware of is ‘okay’ right now… if having a fever, body aches, fatigue, and congestion is ‘okay’.

I travel with my art buddy mid next month. I guess I won’t have to worry about being around him as he’ll have a fair amount of immunity built in.

Be safe out there folks.

Fate...I did that search and found this...


Fact Check: A Study Does NOT Find Vaccinated Patients Are 27 Times More Likely To Develop COVID Symptoms Than Unvaccinated

link


Does a study find vaccinated patients are 27 times more likely to develop COVID symptoms than unvaccinated? No, that's not true: The study, based on medical records of the Maccabi Health Service HMO in Israel, found that vaccinated patients are 27 times more likely to develop COVID symptoms than people who were infected with and recovered from COVID-19. Though "unvaccinated," they were people who had already recovered from a bout with SARS-CoV-2 and had some degree of natural immunity. That was the point of the study: comparing infection-induced immunity to vaccination-induced immunity.

The claim appeared as a video (archived here) where it was published on Instagram on September 13, 2021. It opened:

Study finds vaccinated patients 27 times more likely to develop COVID symptoms than unvaccinated

Social media users saw this:

(Source: Instagram screenshot taken on Wed Sept 15 18:20:29 2021 UTC)

The false claim was made by the OAN network in an article headline and in a video aired by the channel. They updated the headline on their website to say, "​​Study Finds Vaccinated Patients 27 Times More Likely To Develop COVID Symptoms Than People Who Recovered From COVID," but the article and video still are repeating the false claim.

At the 6:17 mark, the Instagram video repeats the false claim in the opening audio of the segment and in the chyron of the video. The video opens:

A new study involving tens-of-thousands of patients reveals fully vaccinated people are 27 times more likely to end up with COVID, COVID symptoms than those who have never had a vaccine. One America's Pearson Sharp has more.

The study does not say that vaccinated people are 27 times more likely to end up with COVID symptoms than those "who have never had a vaccine." It compares vaccinated people to people who previously were infected with COVID-19, meaning they had some degree of natural immunity, but who were not vaccinated. It does not compare them to people who were unvaccinated.

Science.org published an article explaining what the study said:

The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system's research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.

Health care professionals continue to recommend people get the COVID-19 vaccine to ensure the greatest protection from the disease. The article continued:

No one in the study who got a new SARS-CoV-2 infection died--which prevented a comparison of death rates but is a clear sign that vaccines still offer a formidable shield against serious disease, even if not as good as natural immunity. Moreover, natural immunity is far from perfect. Although reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 are rare, and often asymptomatic or mild, they can be severe.

Lead Stories previously debunked the claim that the study proved vaccines are less effective than natural immunity here.

While the study does indicate people who survived infection with SARS-CoV-2 resisted the delta variant better than those who had been vaccinated, it also notes that people who have been infected and vaccinated fare best of all against reinfection or breakthrough infections and that risking infection without the vaccine means taking a higher risk of death from COVID-19 or lingering symptoms known as "Long Covid."

Fate...you can click the link above to access additional information and links.

Understand this...I don't give a rats ass about all the studies you can find, whether they are true or flat out FALSE...

...THE FACT REMAINS, anyone taking the route to develop their "natural immunity" by getting the Covid virus needs to realize they might get seriously sick or EVEN DIE if they get Covid. To develop the natural immunity you speak of the individual must also accept the risks that come with it, plus the risk that you can infect others, such as family members, friends or anyone who has not developed ANY Covid immunity.

Is that risk worth it..?

Wow. The link has nothing to do with what I said.

Again, as far as the "FACT REMAINS" paragraph. I agreed, and said as much. I would never advocate people go shopping for covid. If you would read, you would know that.

The facts I stated are simple: 20 million (minimum, some estimates are as high as 90 million) people already had covid before there was ever a vaccine. Many of them saw no reason to then get vaccinated... especially if they were healthy and had minimal symptoms. Is this concept really that hard to grasp??

Mac, for an intelligent guy you are drawing a really dumb conclusion from all this. Nobody is saying walk thru a covid ward and breathe deeply. We are acknowledging a fact, many millions have had the virus, are protected by natural antibodies and do not need to be vaccinated. Why some of you cannot accept that reality I do not understand.

I pointed out in early summer when everyone was panicking over the vaccination levels, Based on known seroprevalence surveys and the vaccination rates, we could imply at that time that we were above 80% based on simple logic and arithmetic.
Turns out that in July we were actually at 88.8%. Keep in mind that this was above the "herd immunity" objective of 85% and was also before we started calling it a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and trying to put vaccine mandates in place. It also predated Delta and Omicron.
Looks like we are 95% as of December. After Omicron, probably closer to 97%.
CDC Seroprevalence Survey Data

Thank you. Didn't feel like digging that up for the sake of more strawman arguments.

Here is the deal about hospitalizations.

You can choose to compare it to January, or March/April and come up with whatever answer you wish.

Yes, cases are ticking up, but down about 90-95 percent from the January peak.

Is your glass half empty, or half full.

Please read the following sloooowly... If you've already had covid, you've already experienced the risks. Nowhere, no how, never, have I said people should go out and get covid to bypass the vaccine.


I've supplied link after link after link for two years. They're either refuted by strawman arguments or I'm accused of not caring if people die. It's juvenile.

In your previous post you repeated that you would trust your own judgment and not rely on faulty studies or biased information, now you want links...

So I'll ask and respond, although I'm a little confused by what you want links for? My opinion?? Please tell me what you want links for and I'll gladly provide them.

But mac, I think you are missing his point which is that it no longer matters. Getting ahead of the virus with a vaccine made sense because the first exposure to the virus is the most risky, and a year and a half ago, 80% of the population had no exposure. But the reality has changed.

Almost everyone has either contracted the virus or had the vaccine. There is almost nobody left that has not. So how much value is there in pushing increasingly obsolete vaccines? My extremely healthy spouse caught COVID 60 days after her obselete booster. Meanwhile, treatments such as Pavloxid are effectively unavailable, even though they are being advertised on TV. If administered in the first 5 days, Pavloxid lowers hospitalization by nearly 90%, but hospital systems are hording it and not giving it out unless people are hospitalized. I confirmed this in my own bout with COVID. Even with certain risk factors, I talked to two separate physicians to try to get treatment and could get nothing useful.

Investing our time and energy into treatments will yield better result at this point than a never ending focus on pushing obsolete vaccines. If we can get updated vaccines, that would be great, but they will also have limited spans of usefulness. Treatments like Pavloxid which actually attack the ability of the RNA to replicate should be better at retaining their effectiveness over time.

And as far as the strength of natural immunity, this has never been in contention. Exposure to the real virus that is currently in circulation will almost always result in more useful or more lasting antibodies than exposure to a simulated virus or dead virus from previous years. There are studies that verify this with COVID, but it was never really in doubt. This is sort of built into the immune system. The downside is that you have to get sick in order to get the antibodies.

I noticed mac didn't give any links to his two "cases" where 1 young man needed a lung transplant, and apparently, got one immediately, and the other "case" he cited.

Tell me how your fake news spreading ass really feels why don't ya? lmao, and you called me snowflake? Oh, the irony.

Well that day was today, yesterday, and the every damn day before that. Try again when you understand the meaning of the words you are trying to use, everybody can see just how 'smart' you are. Don't you have a Q meeting?

Hope they all recover quickly Port, that sucks. Any idea what variant or if it's a new one?

Put your money where your mouth is, champ. Show me which part is fake news.

He's like 2 others on here - they just blather on about stuff that msnbc feeds them, or rachel maddow feeds them. They consider THOSE sources legit, but not any sources that disagree with them.

Anti trump? Bam, there all over it. Meanwhile, our president tries to shake hands with no one, and doesn't even get it. Our vice president giggles her way through every thing.

Do some research on "clueless" Do some research on "begging for approval". Do some research on senility. Biden and Harris will show up.

Why the hell would I try to rationalize facts to science denying right wingers? Do you think I like mental masturbation? I've had 5 years of the trolls in this forum prove one damn thing, no matter what you do, they still don't believe facts. What are you supposed to do with that? I know what you don't do, listen to that rubbish.

So that is a long winded way of saying you cannot show any factual inaccuracy so I will just rant on about nothing. You are good at that if nothing else.

It is somewhat ironic for you to call someone a science denier as you deny the scientific studies. Really humerous. You bring to mind another famous expression. “I’ve already made up my mind, don’t confuse me with the facts”.

THAT'S what I thought, little buddy.

No idea of the variant. The tests don’t show. They just show positive for COVID. Most of my friends are fairing well. A few sicker than others but all in all they’re getting through it.
I was asked to go to the show… I didn’t for this kind of reason. Now I’m glad I didn’t… even though I heard the band crushed it.

You must be mistaking me for one of your half men. What did 40 call them? Sissy half men or some crap? Even though I know you aren't stupid, I would never accuse you of being smart either, especially when you post this crap. Wake up.

Look at the sources, anything that denies mainstream science, comes from GOPer news, or rolls around in your little head without fact checker confirmation is based in right wing lies. The right wing lives inside some kind of dystopian victimhood state, so almost anything put out is tainted with BS. Ivermectin? BS. Bleach? BS. UV lights up the butt? BS. Mask hurt people somehow? BS.

But I'm sure you can't see how insane your entire party looks and sounds. It's hard to see from the deep underbelly inside. And if they hadn't got into your head so hard, we could have been great friends because believe it or not, we have a lot in common other than politics. But your team keeps us at each other's throats with all their dirty dealing. So, no. I'm not going to jump through hoops to prove you wrong, although it can be done, it's an exercise in futility, so I'm not giving you the satisfaction. You believe a bunch of BS lies, and I can't help you. Again, wake up.