DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deshawn Watson News/Issues

Sadly you are correct.

There's nothing sad about it. No justice system is perfect, but if I had to choose I'd take innocent until guilty over mob justice.

And exactly what justice do you think a mob will impose? Lynching? Prison? It seems attacking the accusers is the chosen stance of many. I mean if you wish to discuss mob justice.

This is just my opinion and I am not saying I am correct. However, I think that considering the fact that Watson has not been indicted for any criminal wrongdoing and wondering why people would choose to first bring their case and claims to Civil Court rather than first try to find "justice" in a Criminal Court is keeping an open mind and allowing the situation to play out w/out assigning guilt or innocence to any party. I also think saying things like "I hope Watson is punished if he broke the law" and "I hope Watson is allowed to live as a free man and in piece" aren't terrible takes.

On the other had posting dozens of articles that are one-sided and stating things like Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson... is more of a mob justice mentality. But again, that is just my opinion.

It's been explained several times yet some choose not to accept it. In the absence of physical evidence it's very had, almost impossible to prove a case in criminal court. The proof of guilt requires a totally different standard in a criminal trail than it does in a civil trial. In a criminal trial it requires "beyond a reasonable doubt". In a civil trial it is a "preponderance of the evidence". I know you've chosen to ignore that.

If you think a sig. on a message board is mob justice view is quite skewed.

As I've said before, you and those like yourself seem to have no problem with character attacks on all these women insinuating they could all be prostitutes, could all be liars and there is some conspiracy theory to extort watson by some greedy attorney. It seems you have chosen to pick and choose what you have a problem with and what you don't. Allegations condemning the character of all these women is something you've never spoken out against. Sometimes what's not said speaks louder than what is said.

I would say a group of people assigning guilt before a person is actually convicted of a crime is a mob mentality. But again, that is simply my opinion.

I do understand that a Criminal trial is harder to win. Let me ask another question. Did all 22 of these women file police reports before they joined the Civil suit? I am not saying they are guilty of chasing money by using sexual encounters as a launching point to gain money, but it sure as hell would not be the first time. I think that all things should be taken into consideration before the public can say who is guilty and whom is not. Again, just my opinion.

I don't know, but based on what I've seen on here it will be justice without waiting for any amount of actual evidence.

"Attacking accusers" is the strawman argument you have created to make convicting/punishing someone without any real evidence sound more palatable.

Most people aren't "attacking" the accusers. Skepticism of the allegations (numerous and consistent as they are) is good, if uncomfortable. It's what allows the justice system to hand out punishment with any sort of credibility. I do understand that proving these cases is generally very difficult. You yourself have said that the accusers lawyer is really good at his job, and he has said that he will prove Watson's guilt. So why is it such an issue waiting for him to do just that?

Top 10 Reasons People Do Not Report Sexual Abuse

https://www.dlawgroup.com/reasons-people-do-not-report-sexual-abuse/

Why many sexual assault survivors may not come forward for years

https://journalistsresource.org/health/sexual-assault-report-why-research/

Why we're psychologically hardwired to blame the victim

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/27/victim-blaming-science-behind-psychology-research

I think just about every person in this country understands why women are reluctant to pursue charges. I have mentioned on this board that it's terrible when female accusers become the victim. Of course, you choose to ignore that.

On the other hand, I think almost every person in this country realizes that there are people who like to take advantage of others by filing claims and that is why Personal Injury lawyers pollute our airwaves.

I'm saying that it is my belief that we keep an open mind and not assign guilt to either party and that we allow the legal system to handle the case.

Yet you posted this....


On the other hand, I think almost every person in this country realizes that there are people who like to take advantage of others by filing claims and that is why Personal Injury lawyers pollute our airwaves.

I'm saying that it is my belief that we keep an open mind and not assign guilt to either party and that we allow the legal system to handle the case.[/quote]

Yep a large group of them doing it against the same person. Happens all the time in Versland.

Above you claim you understand why women don't report things right away when previously you posted this....


....when it's been explained in these threads over and over how difficult it is to prove a case without physical evidence in a criminal trial. So how many times have over 20 women accused the same man of sexual improprieties again?

Ignoring the obvious isn't something I'm having a problem with.

I disagree, but that's a conversation for somewhere other than PF.

Was your post supposed to be a dig? Is "the obvious" Watson committed a crime? If so, your "Ignoring the obvious isn't something I'm having a problem with" remark rings hollow given how quickly the grand jury decided not to indict, the lack of overall hard evidence, and your own repeating ad nauseum how hard these cases are to prove (how can something be both obvious and difficult to prove?).

Obviously those who control this board disagree no matter how much some of you protest.


It was a dig but not at you specifically. Anyone who lumps that many victims into a category that portrays them as possible prostitutes, all liars or involved in some scheme to extort money from watson isn't looking for legitimate possibilities, they are attacking an entire group of women. Claiming that's a straw man position isn't helping you there.

There you go again. You are equating any opinion/argument that is at all at odds with the unproven allegations as an attack on an entire group of women. Considering the lack of actual evidence we have to debate over, this isn't even an 'attack' on the accusers, much less a whole slice of women. It's called innocent until proven guilty and resisting mob mentality.

I believe the date is May 7th that Watson has to provide a detailed list of the number of massages and with whom he received massages since 2019. Preliminary numbers are estimating that total somewhere around 150 different women. Once these women get exposed to this circus, there's going to have to be a whole lot of explaining going forward. There's already 40 that have come forward, but I expect that number to increase greatly especially if the list gets released. As stated above, most women don't report these things because of people being psychologically hardwired to blame the victim. If half of those women decide to join the civil suit because of the exposure they obviously didn't want, what is the fallout for Watson and the Cleveland Browns with 75 plus civil suits? We all have to wait for this thing to play out but any increase in numbers will not be looking favorable for Watson IMHO.

Preliminary numbers from who?

It's all speculation. Let's actually wait for it to play out and deal with reality instead of speculation and 'it's reported that'. The situation as it stands is quite serious enough.

There are reasons why people accuse you of moving the goal posts, being a LWL, and spinning what people say. You never take the time to consider an alternative viewpoint to delve deeper into the situation. It's all about you being right and defaming the other poster's opinion. Labeling a man a Predator w/out allowing the legal system to run it's course is what's sad. You can spin things all you want, but I'm going to keep an open mind. I'll end my attempt to try and have a rational discussion w/you and allow you to once again have the last word. In this case, you are actually entitled to it since I "went off" on you.

Watson's camp is required to produce information pertaining to his massage history since 2019 as well as the language about massages in his contract with the Houston Texans, his previous team, according to USA Today's Schrotenboer.

And to everybody: Do not, under any circumstances, claim that a Houston grand jury exonerated Watson last month. It did nothing of the kind. It simply chose not to indict him. If you cite the grand jury’s decision not to press charges as proof he did nothing wrong, you only reveal your own ignorance about the criminal-justice system generally and sexual-assault cases specifically.

But you don’t have to be ignorant, because Melissa Morabito did some due diligence for you. Wasn’t that nice of her? Morabito is an associate professor in the University of Massachusetts-Lowell School of Criminology and Justice Studies and co-author of a U.S. Department of Justice-funded study of decision-making and attrition in sexual-assault cases.

The study covers 3,269 cases over a three-year period across six states. Only 1.6% of cases where sexual assault was reported to police ever made it to court. Morabito says the chances of Watson facing a jury trial were probably lower, because most of the accusations by the 22 women involve forcible fondling as opposed to direct penetration or rape, though at least one woman accused him of forcing her to perform oral sex.

But Judge Rabeea Sultan Collier overruled the objection in favor of the plaintiffs, compelling Watson to provide a history of women who gave him massages.

Watson's attorney, Rusty Hardin, estimated that Watson receives between 120 and 150 massages per year, which isn't necessarily out of the ordinary for an NFL player.

The Texans work with Genuine Touch Massage Therapy, which can arrange for therapists to work with players even while away from the team facility, although some players opt to find their own therapists.

An anonymous person with ties to the Texans said a member of the team's medical staff was concerned about Watson getting injured due to seeking out massage therapists on Instagram.

An anonymous NFC defensive back said, “I don’t know guys who use 22 different masseuses," in reference to the number of lawsuits filed against Watson.

The NFL players who spoke to SI anonymously all said they always have full-sheet drapings during their massage sessions and go out of their way to avoid exposing their genitals.

The one thing that has me thinking these women might be full of it, is this all happened AFTER DW called ownership out for racism. Money like that can buy this kind of trouble for an enemy. Other than that possibility, DW might be a guy who just pays for sex, a creep who “kind of, but not quite” forces women into sex willingly. I mean he may put them in sexual situations without crossing the line and then make a paid offer for sex. That makes him a creep, not really a predator. But if he forces them against their will or scares them into thinking if they don't something bad will happen; that's pure predator in my book. I think the facts need to get clearer for me to remain a fan of the browns during his tenure. I might have an issue rooting for another team, but I stopped watching football when they moved the Browns, and have skipped a lot of playoffs/super bowls because the Browns didn't make the playoffs. So, I will adapt one way or the other if this goes any way I don't feel acceptable. Right now, nobody knows enough to say one way or the other except perhaps a couple judges or lawyers.

Just look at the women that come out against men for political reasons. It's not like a woman or many women can't lie, especially if they are compensated. And generally, I would think if somebody is selling sex, lying in a lawsuit wouldn't be much of a leap. The number of them actually works against them in the case in that context. Think honestly about this, DW has average or IMO just less than average looks and personality. Of course that is more or less my first impressions in this context because I never really paid much attention to him before now. But it follows that a guy like that, who is suddenly that rich, maybe a little shy or introverted when it comes to sexual relationships… I could see him paying for sex like a kid in a candy store, with the team fully aware. Then he takes a dump on the owners, the league, and almost half the country that thinks blatant racism shouldn't be called out.

I've also plugged in a hundred other scenarios while thinking about all of this. They all end with not enough data to truly convict or acquit from the cheap seats.

Best case scenario, it's a Robert Kraft type situation. What they are alleging is NOT that (that he forced them to do sexual stuff that they didn't want to). As you said, more facts are needed.

Delve into what? That all of these women are liars? They they must all be prostitutes? That somehow this highly successful attorney who has taken cases such as BP in the Deepwater Horizon disaster and Exxonmobil case must be some kind of ambulance chaser such as you suggested? That even Rick Perry used him in his defense and even The New York Times once called him one of the most successful trial lawyers in the country?

Those are the absurd allegations you think I should consider? Maybe the issue is really that you realize just how absurd these accusations are and rather than man up and face that it makes you feel better by throwing shade on someone else.


A civil trial means you believe someone is guilty by a preponderance of the evidence. That means 51% or more. None of the hair brained, far reaching accusations which people prefer to call possibilities to sooth the fact that their using nothing more victim blaming to absolve watson meets any threshold of a preponderance.

Don't let them fool you with their false allegations Tab....


They're basically making things up and ignoring much of what has been exposed so far in this case.

I've heard this theory before. But let me ask you this. What kind of wealthy person would try to undermine their own ability to get the most money and assets out of a commodity they were in control of? When you know you will be forced to trade a player, trying to purposefully undermine his value would take a moron. Indecent exposure is a crime. It's not just creepy behavior.

For some reason I had this saved, the narrative really changed quick when he came here.....

Who changed it? Who has said they don't think he's a top 5 or top 10 QB in the NFL on the field? I certainly haven't seen it anywhere.

Have to look but I know Fanduel had him at 8 behind Derek Carr just ahead of Ryan Tannehil and that's just in the AFC. Which is obviously nonsense.

This is to the board. Please know that I never once said that all these women were prostitutes. I never made bold claims that they were liars. I don't even think I ever mentioned the attorney. In fact, while I have never been w/a prostitute, I have always had a soft spot in my heart for them because their circumstances factored in to their predicament. I don't think they are evil people and I don't think they should be ridiculed or held in contempt or looked upon w/disgust.

I think that posters who continually lie about what others are saying are a real problem on this board. It happens far too often. It creates fights and derails threads. Others who aren't following closely probably assume that the accusing poster is telling the truth. It's reprehensible that a handful of posters continually resort to this behavior.

Secondly, I am of the opinion that we all keep an open mind and consider all the information out there so we can make an informed and fair decision and shutting conversation down by making up lies is not good for the overall good of the board.

Yes, insinuations don't count in Versland.

Just like using qualifiers such as, I'm not saying they're doing it for the money but it wouldn't be the first time.

You have been shown in this thread that many of these women were licensed massage therapists. You were shown that the message was being spread around the massage therapist community about watson's conduct. So who is it really that isn't considering the very real possibilities here?

And just to clear up the falsehood you are now trying to present, I never said it was you making these accusations. You claimed I wasn't looking at the other possibilities. I gave you the list of possibilities that had been posted numerous times on this board and let you know that I had considered them and they were absurd at best.

But over the last couple of days you've certainly insinuated a couple of them.

Then you should consider behaving yourself better. You just finished posting lies.

I don't think he is.

Is it possible some of the women are jumping in on the lawsuit?

It certainly is. When you have a group of women this large you will have various personalities and characters involved. Any time you have a large group of people in any given profession you will find a mix of both good and bad. There's also the very real possibility and even the likelihood that there are victims that as of now, and possibly never will never come forward due to some of the very things that are posted on this board. They don't wish to endure the victim blaming and publicity that is involved in all of this. It's been shown over and over again how victims of a sexual nature often never come forward. So while I agree with what you're saying, that street travels in both directions.

If people were qualifying it the way you just did rather than appear to be making sweeping accusations it wouldn't be so bad. I've never said that they were all telling the truth. As I suggested, being all inclusive with a large group of people is naive and short sighted.

You've said numerous times that people either believe Watson or they believe "22 women are lying". No middle ground. Choose one or the other, and if one chooses Watson they are stupid and deserving of your ridicule.

PIT - I have a question for you, or a point of clarification.

Do you actually believe the 22 women must be telling the truth - or at least some of them??? = or = do you reference the 22 women when/if a posters seems to indicate they believe Watson to be innocent and therefore are seemingly dismissing the testimony of these women? I honestly don't know.

I haven't read most of the posts in these threads, but is there any poster on the board, never mind "posters" that believe Watson is "innocent?" They would be as shameful as those who have already have said that Watson is guilty.

That thought process is completely flawed. The uber rich don't give a damn about destroying an asset's value when that asset attacks them with something as strong as being racists in business dealings. That is the type of accusation that ruins men. They wouldn't just let it go because he can sling the rock. Plug Trump into that and ask yourself what he would do. He would try to destroy the threat, period. Same for most rich men in positions of power, like these owners. But I'm still not saying you are wrong on the topic, we just need more data bro.

I will talk from my experience when I was listening to my daughters case.

When making serious accusations without enough hard proofs the police and the lawyer will ask questions to the accuser so they can verify as much as possible that the accusation is trustworthy. The women (in our case my daughter) has to present a timeline and additional information that includes certain criteria’s. Whenever my daughter was uncertain or hesitated the lawyer put pressure on her to present a solid story without logical holes. The reason was to eliminate cases that isn’t trustworthy to avoid humiliation of the accuser in the court room. My daughter said it was a nightmare because some of the things she went thru was so hard to remember in exact details.

The bottom line is that not many women are willing to put themselves inside a court house with all the negativity that follows. It’s much easier when there is more women with the same experience going to court because then they can hide their shame and insecurity behind each other.

Not every women is like Amber Heard and loves being in the middle of everyone’s attention.

It takes all kinds of people to make the world go round.. Don't assume that all Prostitutes/escorts/massage therapists are unwilling participants in that industry.

Some do it for the money, some because they love sex, some for the power over men etc.. Some do it for a hobby... For the record, there are male escorts out there.. in fact there was a reality TV show about them in Vegas... Funny show to be honest.. but a bit kinky for me...LOL

The thing is this, if DW booked an appointment with a massage therapist, he may have expected to get a happy ending.. Maybe,,,, MAYBE that's not what the woman thought was going to happen (naive at best perhaps)

That's when the problem comes into light.

In all honesty, this could be a scam by a lawyer to get a big settlement from DW... Could be that simple. I guess we are going to see.

Innocent is a VERY strong word. There's no way (IMO) that Watson is completely innocent (and by innocent, I mean did no wrong legal or otherwise).

Was his wrongdoing enough to be found guilty in these civil trials? I don't know.
Was his wrongdoing enough for me to reconsider my Browns fandom while he's the face of the franchise. I don't know (x2).