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#1939857 04/21/22 03:49 PM
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There is this new report that Jarvis will decide between the Saints and the Browns

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...choose_between_2_teams/s1_16748_37424692

I really hope he returns. I am a big fan.

There have been times when I wondered how much is left? I have seen plays where he looks really slow.

But Jarvis is a pros pro. He brings so much to the table. On this team with guys like Schwartz, Bradley, and DPJ. Jarvis can help those guys.

Cooper is a polished professional. A true number one. Precise route runner. A excellent receiver who should click with DW. Bringing Jarvis back will give him all that underneath space. Jarvis is so savvy. He knows where to find catches. Once he sees the coverage Jarvis will know the options to use off his tree.

Besides he is tough as nails. He has been physically injured for two years. He has enough in the tank to help this team. I believe DW will find him.

So hell yes Jarvis. I will warm a seat for you come on back.

bonefish #1939859 04/21/22 03:54 PM
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I'll welcome Jarvis on a $2-$3M one-year contract w/ production incentives. This guy has to be one the most overrated players in recent Browns' history.


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bonefish #1939864 04/21/22 04:04 PM
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There have been times when I wondered how much is left? I have seen plays where he looks really slow.

I agree. He seems old for his age. I have mixed emotions on bringing him back. I want it to be because he is a good player more than because he is a good guy.


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Ballpeen #1939865 04/21/22 04:16 PM
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Like Baker, the RB's, DPJ, the OL ... I think Jarvis was impacted by injury significantly last year. I think he tried to come back too soon which made him look worse. I don't think he is worth the $15M he was due - I think he's worth more than the $2-3M plus incentives mentioned above (depending on the incentives and how obtainable). Something to consider - DW doesn't seem to be a loud/vocal leader from what I have seen, Chubb isn't, I don't believe Cooper is ... part of what Jarvis brings in addition to great hands and ability is his feistiness. Someone posted the other day about the Browns missing some "nasty" on the team ... Jarvis would bring a little of that attitude to the O if he comes back. Two years - $6-7m per would seem to be about where I would peg him - or add a third year but make it cap friendly to cut him if he is indeed slowing down.


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mgh888 #1939868 04/21/22 04:31 PM
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I'm the poster preaching "nasty", and I'll keep doing it until we find some. Between the x's and o's, schemes and philosophies, analytics and how we grade upside and value... it's definitely a "missing link".

Good post. Just about where I stand, although I would be willing to bump that near 8M per year if necessary, if it fits the structure of our near-future financial plans.

I'd love to have Jarvis back. I think many here severely underrate his value on the field... and his value in the locker room speaks volumes.


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mgh888 #1939870 04/21/22 04:39 PM
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I don't disagree. I am not saying I don't want him, but vocal leader isn't one of the reasons to keep him. Coaches are vocal leaders. Chubb is a leader no matter if he doesn't say much.

I might want him back, but I don't want him back because he was a guy I latched on to watching Hard Knocks 3-4 years ago.


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FATE #1939873 04/21/22 04:59 PM
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I think many here severely underrate his value on the field... and his value in the locker room speaks volumes.

I'm THE biggest Landry hater on this board based on what we paid him, so I'm happy to take the brunt of the backlash. I'm ok with it because I've been proven right. smile

The "value" in the locker room is such a cop out, IMO. That sort of thing is not quantifiable. His contract was based on on-field performance and he never lived up to it. Never.

I'm cool with him coming back if his value is commensurate with the contract. I think the FO is too.


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Ballpeen #1939874 04/21/22 05:06 PM
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Landry ran a 4.77 40 eight years ago. He is nothing more than a league average slot receiver at this point. I wouldn’t pay him much more than the minimum.

bonefish #1939876 04/21/22 05:15 PM
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Experience counts. Jarvis made five pro bowls.

That is not an accident. His numbers are there for those who wish to look.

I will let Berry handle the money. He was not going to make $15. I don't know what his dollar market value is. He may not be what he once was.

When you hit his age with recent injury history. You become a one year contract guy.

However, with this offense and the role he would play. Jarvis could be a pleasant surprise.

cfrs15 #1939877 04/21/22 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Landry ran a 4.77 40 eight years ago. He is nothing more than a league average slot receiver at this point. I wouldn’t pay him much more than the minimum.
So Jerry Rice speed? Man, that's terrible.

Well hey, at least he has the hands to match!


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FATE #1939878 04/21/22 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FATE
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Landry ran a 4.77 40 eight years ago. He is nothing more than a league average slot receiver at this point. I wouldn’t pay him much more than the minimum.
So Jerry Rice speed? Man, that's terrible.

Well hey, at least he has the hands to match!

False equivalence. If Landry’s production was close to what Rice’s was then this would not be a conversation because:

#1 - The Dolphins would have never traded Landry.

and

#2 - If the Dolphins did trade him the Browns would have never cut him.

FATE #1939884 04/21/22 06:07 PM
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Both things are brown. They must be the same thing!

(One is chocolate, the other is poop.)

cfrs15 #1939886 04/21/22 06:10 PM
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j/c:

I think Jarvis is an excellent WR and I feel that some don't like him because of who brought him here. Jarvis was insanely productive in Miami. His numbers were up there w/the all time greats in his first four years or whatever the length of time he was w/the Dolphins. There was an issued between the idiotic Gase and Landry and that is how we stole him for a 4th round pick. I'd like to see Jarvis w/a quality qb and we now have one in Watson. I think the Browns really need a Y-receiver and Juice can produce there. I do know Belichek loved the guy. BB was the guy talking about Landry when the latter was in featured on the Top 100 list of players in the NFL. They even showed game footage of how BB kept saying they had to find out where Landry was and how he was their focus of who they had to concentrate on.

Versatile Dog #1939887 04/21/22 06:14 PM
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Just to be clear I would be perfectly fine with bringing Landry back at the right price and I liked having him on the team. He just never lived up to his contract.

cfrs15 #1939891 04/21/22 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Both things are brown. They must be the same thing!

(One is chocolate, the other is poop.)
Actually, they're both chocolate.

Landry caught more passes than anyone in NFL history his first four years... and no one else was even in the ballpark. Landry also caught way more passes than Rice through his first eight seasons... but who's counting?

Rice was already playing pitch and catch with his second HOF QB by then while Landry is about to punch his ticket with his fifth QB... with the first four being incredibly average.

You're the one that said he was "average" because he doesn't have speed. 80 catches per and 900 yards... over eight seasons... is anything but average.


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FATE #1939892 04/21/22 06:27 PM
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What was Rice’s production on 80 catches versus Rice?

I can’t believe I am having this conversation.

cfrs15 #1939895 04/21/22 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Just to be clear I would be perfectly fine with bringing Landry back at the right price and I liked having him on the team. He just never lived up to his contract.

We disagree a bit. No big deal. He did put up big numbers like Fate echoed. I do think you have to consider who was throwing him the ball while he was here.

Versatile Dog #1939896 04/21/22 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Just to be clear I would be perfectly fine with bringing Landry back at the right price and I liked having him on the team. He just never lived up to his contract.

We disagree a bit. No big deal. He did put up big numbers like Fate echoed. I do think you have to consider who was throwing him the ball while he was here.

At this point in his career Landry’s production is what it is. He catches a lot of passes for not a lot of yards. That doesn’t make him bad. Comparing him to Jerry Rice is unfair (as it would be for any receiver).

bonefish #1939897 04/21/22 06:44 PM
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My opinion:

- The moment I learned he was available I was hoping we would trade for him

- he was not worth that contract….but, that contract did not affect our Salary cap or bringing in someone else during those years. So I was fine with it.

- He made some clutch and amazing catches, but didn’t deserve the silly VG nickname on here.

- the first couple years, his leadership was very valuable in changing the culture

- his leadership isn’t needed now, and his “leadership” isn’t a reason to bring him back. We have veteran WRs. We will probably have a few rookies, but our veterans will assist them. We have plenty of leaders on both sides of the ball. On offense, we have a new leader (and possible culture change) in our new QB plus others. Locker room culture will change moving forward for various reasons.

- I would take him back on a cheap or above cheap 1 year contract, but nothing more than that. My view is also skewed in this thinking, because we are thin at WR and I know he has some veteran savy in finding holes in the D.

- I do appreciate his time here

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cfrs15 #1939898 04/21/22 06:46 PM
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He is a possession receiver. He is a good guy to have, but not imperative we sign.


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bonefish #1939899 04/21/22 06:52 PM
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Im gonna assume Berry told Jarvis we'd welcome you back with open arms, but only at this price. If you find a better deal, congratulations, and out of respect.. deal will stay on the table for you either way.. take your time.


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cfrs15 #1939900 04/21/22 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Just to be clear I would be perfectly fine with bringing Landry back at the right price and I liked having him on the team. He just never lived up to his contract.

We disagree a bit. No big deal. He did put up big numbers like Fate echoed. I do think you have to consider who was throwing him the ball while he was here.

At this point in his career Landry’s production is what it is. He catches a lot of passes for not a lot of yards. That doesn’t make him bad. Comparing him to Jerry Rice is unfair (as it would be for any receiver).
Of course it is. I only mentioned it because you used his 40 speed from eight years ago as some evidence that he is "average". Jerry was slow... that's all. Jarvis catches everything you throw at him... for "not a lot of yards"... if you consider 900 per year, like clockwork, "not a lot". Average? Uh, no.

I feel like he gets disrespected by more than a few posters. Dude works his butt off, is a willing leader, catches everything, and catches nothing but grief because he isn't fast. Memphis thinks he should get paid like the 65th best WR in the league when PFF consistently puts him in their top 25.

To each his own, I guess.


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cfrs15 #1939901 04/21/22 07:17 PM
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I didn't compare him to Jerry Rice. I just don't think he is as bad as some make him out to be. And realize I clicked on your post when I first posted, but it was a j/c and not directed toward you.

I think Juice can still be effective. Watson will get him the ball and is able to make the same good reads of coverages that Lanrdy can. Also, I think have a WR in the Shanaha/Kubiak offense that can run crossing routes, work the flat, be effective in motion, and run out of the slot are important. We currently do not have a WR that fits that bill. I respect ScottPayers...opinions and his post was logical, but I do think we still need another leader in the locker room. But again, we all have our opinions and it's been a pretty good conversation thus far.

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HotBYoungTurk #1939902 04/21/22 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by HotBYoungTurk
Im gonna assume Berry told Jarvis we'd welcome you back with open arms, but only at this price. If you find a better deal, congratulations, and out of respect.. deal will stay on the table for you either way.. take your time.

Not sure if it true or not, but it sounds reasonable to me.

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j/c,

Javis contract wasn't very team friendly, but he was a leader on and off the field, he was also mostly dependable (other than a few drops on some catchable passes) and you could count on him to be in the right place and at the right moment in time.

We will more then likely be in 11 personnel the majority of the time going forward, as opposed to 12 or 13 personnel of the past two seasons, so the slot WR is going to be a starter (as is the 5th NCB) more or less in our offense ... making the slot a more valuable postion going forward for us...


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FL_Dawg #1939915 04/21/22 08:40 PM
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Fl Dawg, this is interesting and I'm not arguing. Just discussing and want to hear more about your reasoning. I get that we can run more 11 personnel now that we have a qb who can thrive in it, but aren't coaches from the Shanahan/Kubiak tree [other than McVay] prone to run more 12, 13, and 22 personnel compared to coaches from other trees? Aren't those personnel packages very important to how they assist in the running game and zone blocking schemes. I absolutely love talking schemes and I hate when fans who don't have a clue about such things make comments about how "we are so predictable" and then follow with "we get too cute." LOL

You aren't one of those guys. I respect your football acumen. I just hope that we continue to utilize our previous personnel packages while mixing in some 11 personnel. I am in direct conflict w/those who trash our scheme. Keep in mind, I didn't even want Stefanski as our HC, but when I am proven wrong, I admit it.

Versatile Dog #1939918 04/21/22 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Fl Dawg, this is interesting and I'm not arguing. Just discussing and want to hear more about your reasoning. I get that we can run more 11 personnel now that we have a qb who can thrive in it, but aren't coaches from the Shanahan/Kubiak tree [other than McVay] prone to run more 12, 13, and 22 personnel compared to coaches from other trees? Aren't those personnel packages very important to how they assist in the running game and zone blocking schemes. I absolutely love talking schemes and I hate when fans who don't have a clue about such things make comments about how "we are so predictable" and then follow with "we get too cute." LOL

You aren't one of those guys. I respect your football acumen. I just hope that we continue to utilize our previous personnel packages while mixing in some 11 personnel. I am in direct conflict w/those who trash our scheme. Keep in mind, I didn't even want Stefanski as our HC, but when I am proven wrong, I admit it.

If you listen to KS latest interview he said that we will see more 11 personnel in our offense w/ Watson and playing to his strengths ... but yes, seeing is believing.


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Thanks. It's worth keeping an eye on.

FL_Dawg #1939921 04/21/22 09:00 PM
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Btw--------not sure if you remember, but I did not approve of the Shanny hire when he came to Cleveland from Washington. I thought there was a nepotism factor going on. Boy, was I wrong. I ended up becoming his biggest fan on this board. I thought he was brilliant. The best scheme guy I ever saw. I often say playcalling is overrated, but this guy used building blocks to create plays that totally compromised defenses. Almost everyone on here thought Farmer was great, but I wanted him gone and to keep Shanny. I really love our scheme. The Shannahans and Kubiaks are really brilliant when it comes to scheme.

Ehhhh....I'm getting off topic. Sorry. I hope Jarvis comes back. We need that Y receiver who can really help Watson w/his pre-snap reads when he goes in motion. Think about this Dawg.........run Jarvis in motion. Watson is very good w/pre-snap reads. Run rub routes w/Landry and Cooper, our X and Y receivers. Have DPJ run one-cut vertical routes. Watson can see the field and make good decisions. That will be a dynamic group when we do go 11 personnel. The same can be said when we run 12, w/Njoku running seam routes to take the top off of the coverage and then have Cooper running the sidelines and Jarvis working underneath. I am so excited about the possibilities. And remember this......we have one of--if not the best--offensive lines in football. Watson never played behind a good OL. We really have a chance this year.

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I do think we still need another leader in the locker room.

Vers,

how many leaders do you think we need on the team? I understand that is a generalized question. The reason I am asking is for clarification.

Leader can be taken a few different ways. I know u said “leader in the locker room” which is straightforward. But being this is text instead of verbal conversation, I’m just asking if you mean positional or overall locker room or both. I just want to understand your stance on that.

I also understand this is assumption since we are never in the locker room. The most we usually get is some reporter saying it or a player/coach in an interview

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Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
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I do think we still need another leader in the locker room.

Vers,

how many leaders do you think we need on the team? I understand that is a generalized question. The reason I am asking is for clarification.

Leader can be taken a few different ways. I know u said “leader in the locker room” which is straightforward. But being this is text instead of verbal conversation, I’m just asking if you mean positional or overall locker room or both. I just want to understand your stance on that.

I also understand this is assumption since we are never in the locker room. The most we usually get is some reporter saying it or a player/coach in an interview

Fair questions and I'm not even sure I am right about my assertions. I don't think we have many leaders on this team. We lost Tretter. He was a leader. Watson is a great leader, but there will be ongoing distractions at best and a suspension is possible. I guess Walker on the defensive side of the ball is a leader. I don't think Myles is a leader. He's a great player and very thoughtful, but he's a different kind of cat that not all football players can identify with. Landry has more of that street toughness and bravado that more athletes can identify with. I do hope that we consider bringing Sheldon Richardson back. He can help on the field and off.

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Keep in mind he played injured most of last season so if he looked slow (never was a burner) it was the injuries. I love his route running and he catches with this hands and if accurate on the run.

somebody mentioned 2-3 mil it will have to be more like 8-9 mil on a one year contract.

I think he will go well with Cooper and is what use to be called a possession WR with excellent hands. A plus in the run game and that has to rub off the young kids. Was surprised to read he was just 29, I thought older.


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bonefish #1939993 04/22/22 09:21 AM
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DeShaun Jackson said he will only play if the quarterback is great.

He mentioned four teams. GB, Browns, Chiefs, Broncos.

If Jarvis does not sign. He would be a good option.

He would fit well with Cooper, and DPJ.

Have no idea how much he would want.

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DeShaun Jackson?!? Has not had over 15 reception in a season since 2018. He's constantly injured.

He should just retire.

I'll cut off my left foot if the Browns sign a 35 year old WR.

If you're looking for an often injured, deep threat, just sign Will Fuller on a one year deal. He's younger and has more upside.

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You may be right.

I have not paid much attention to what he has done lately. In our offense he would have a limited role that he could be good at.

Fuller is out there but I have heard not heard interest from the Browns? Maybe he wants to much?

We do not have to have another receiver. Schwartz could take a big step. Who knows?

The draft is loaded with receivers. We would have good options through many rounds.

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i love what Landry brings to the team.. Attitude is important and he's got it. Remember the speech in the WR meeting room year before last..


He's solid,, not spectacular... but solid.. we could use solid on this team....


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Remember the speech in the WR meeting room year before last.....

Yeah. It was comical.


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MemphisBrownie #1940003 04/22/22 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
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Remember the speech in the WR meeting room year before last.....

Yeah. It was comical.

Yeah, but it did fire up the guys.. the intended results were to do that, and it did.


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Quote
Remember the speech in the WR meeting room year before last.....

Yeah. It was comical.

It wasn't comical IMO. We needed that then. We don't need it now. Leaders don't have to be vocal guys. I think both Garrett and Chubb are leaders. Leading by example is noticed on a team.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Ballpeen #1940040 04/22/22 01:34 PM
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j/c….

From Berry’s press conference today.



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