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Originally Posted by WooferDawg
The irony in the concept of "Legacy Americans" is that the only people that have a legitimate claim to use that term are Native Americans.

The more accurate term would be European Americans of the Caucasian race.

Only if you believe in a narrow view of things.
Nobody is native to the Americas.... or, we all are. We're all Native Pangeans and the Americas are a fragment of Pangea.

The entire concept of "Native This" and "Native That" and "American Whatever" is based ENTIRELY on the premise of taking a limited view. You want to follow roots far enough back to construct a particular view, but no further lest you shatter your own construct by the fact that we are ALL RELATED.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Yet I see the irony that most of the people who push the great replacement theory believe that all men descended from Adam and Eve. Which as you have pointed out would mean we're all related.


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Do your really want to go there Mr. Pangea?

Native American is technically the accurate term for those who were here before European colonization.

I could have said "Indians" but then again maybe its Guardians....

smh..

And I have general agreement that my preferred answer to "race" is "human." We create the problems by making distinctions.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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I am not taking sides here at all, but this made me laugh.


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I could have said "Indians" but then again maybe its Guardians....

rofl

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Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
They don’t want whites becoming a minority. I wonder if their fear is based on how they know minorities are treated in this country? Hmmmmm

it's like they don't realize that in America, every individual race is destined to be a minority. probably shouldnt be marketing the country as a melting pot if they dont like that reality.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Hey Swish......I read your post and just took it as a learning experience. I do want to make a somewhat personal connection to one of your paragraphs, if I may?


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The issue with the theory is that the base stats used to support it aren't wrong per say, but the context is bat crap crazy. for example, the 2020 census showed a decline in the white/non-hispanic demographic, and so they use that as a justification for believing in it. the issue is that -as you know - there are plenty of white-hispanic americans who do identify as white, so when added together, still represent the vast majority of the american population.

My wife grew up w/a white man's last name. Dude abandoned the family before it officially began. A real piece of crap. My wife is even older than I am and she faced a lot of discrimination back in the day. However, my wife recently told us that when she was applying for scholarships and then looking for employment later on in anesthesia, she took advantage of that "white" last name and identified herself as "white" on the applications because she feared she would be rejected if she admitted she was Hispanic.

I bring this up because I was hoping we were beyond such prejudice, yet now it seems, there are organized groups out there that want to bring this crap back.

well here's the thing: hispanics are partially white. Spain and Portugal are european countries, after all. and if anybody knows anything about european history, migration and race mixing might as well be their official pastime (including war lol). it's common for hispanic and latinos to pass off as white in america, especially if they have more spanish/ibernian ethnicity in their dna. so a lot of latinos that can pass off as white mark white on their applications to lower the chances of discrimination. Colorism is another aspect of racism not taught in america. think about the "light skin vs dark skin" talks amongst the black community as an example.

that's why if you haven't noticed, the guys who talk about their european heritage in this country never seem to including spanish speaking people? cause they don't mean that part of europe...


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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by the way, the 18 year old killed a retired cop.

odd that there isn't too much outrage about that. he was a retired cop and was working security at the store. he was a "good guy with a gun" who couldn't stop the shooter because the 18 year had body armor on, and paid for trying to stop the shooter with his life.

the US really wants us to live in a real life GTA game. i guess Americans won't get serious about the gun culture until these losers start hitting us with drones like we're in the middle east.


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Spanish colonization efforts are overlooked in America.

Much as the same as the slave trade brought blacks to America, and we have the whole one drop of blood theory for purity…

Look up the lyrics of “Brown Sugar” sometime. I am curious as to why it has not been banned in Florida as part of Critical Race Theory. I am sure it irks DeSantos.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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Originally Posted by Swish
by the way, the 18 year old killed a retired cop.

odd that there isn't too much outrage about that. he was a retired cop and was working security at the store. he was a "good guy with a gun" who couldn't stop the shooter because the 18 year had body armor on, and paid for trying to stop the shooter with his life.

the US really wants us to live in a real life GTA game. i guess Americans won't get serious about the gun culture until these losers start hitting us with drones like we're in the middle east.


I believe it is illegal ro wear body armor during a violent crime in NY.

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j/c:

There actually has been a lot of good conversation in this thread and there are a variety of topics being discussed. I've enjoyed reading most of the takes. One subject that is continually gets overlooked in this country is mental illness. It's why I chided mac early on. It bugs me when people push mental health issues aside in the name of championing their own political beliefs.

I think the killer's actions are much more deeply rooted in his mental health state than any political preferences he had. I'm not taking a political side here. I think that almost all people have heard the hate that comes from both sides whether it be take our country back or burn it down, etc, etc and we don't act upon those things because we realize that it would be insane to do so.

It's been a long time now, but we have moved the money that was once allocated towards mental health to other areas, such as the nation's drug problem. Additionally, our society has moved way past accountability and instead embraced tolerance and giving our troubled youths more and more accommodations in our schools. As a former educator, I can vouch for many of us--and the students--who encounter troubled youngsters and how they threaten the safety and sanctity of our schools. The school district's psychologists and guidance counselors devise many strategies to combat the actions of the troubled youth and all others are adversely affected while the troubled youth is actually receiving confirmation that his issues are not his fault, but instead, the fault of those around him. It's all great when the powers that be claim they are providing a nurturing environment that is filled w/compassion, tolerance, and understanding. Of course, those children eventually turn into young adults or adults and who is there to help them after they leave school? They are outcasts in society. Can't find a date. Hard to employ. On and on and on...

So you tell me.............what are the troubled youths learning about themselves and what is their perception of the outside world? Then, when these folks commit monstrous crimes against society, we blame political beliefs and guns.

Mental health issues are a huge concern in our country and it is my belief that we are helping in creating these monsters that damage the good of our society. Thus, I feel that our country needs to take a long, hard look at how we deal w/those who are suffering from mental health issues and how we need to re-think strategies to find more effective measures in how to treat our youngsters who are clearly dealing w/those mental health issues.

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Funny, I was bopping around Facebook this morning.. Saw a meme that kinda says it all.....Basically it has Tucker Carlson sitting at his TV Desk and he says:

Immigrants MUST NOT replace the original culture and values of this great land!

Standing behind Carlson is an American Indian saying: "I'll help you pack"..


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Mental health is certainly an issue. But sadly, as anyone who looks can see, the mentally ill have been motivated, manipulated and indoctrinated by white supremacy over and over again. From an El Paso Walmart to a Pittsburgh synagogue to a woman ran over by a car in Charlottesville to now this mass shooting. That's just a recent tip of the iceberg when it comes to the list.

And I understand how you see it as a systemic problem surrounding the treatment and the way or lack there of that we deal with mental health. I don't disagree with that. Yet these shooters aren't typically from high crime communities. They are usually from middle to upper middle class homes. Their families have the ability and resources to get these kids the help they need. They simply refuse to admit often times that their children have a problem.

And I know you would like to have people ignore the political component. But is that realistic? You had a president who claimed "There are good people on both sides" after white supremacists marched on the University of Virginia campus. Chanting "You will not replace us!" The same exact white replacement theory that motivated this latest mass murderer. You have the highest rated cable news show commentator, Tucker Carlson legitimizing it. You even have the fanatical fringe of elected Republican officials who now espouse it. That's a huge component in this situation that can't be, nor should be swept under the rug.

You see this nation has always had mental health issues. It has always had the mentally weak. It has always had people within in it looking for someone else to blame their own shortcomings or bad lot in life on. That's the very thing these white supremacist groups feed on. They find those same people easy to manipulate, easy to convince and exploit those very things. You can actually use that exact same example on the left. They too can use manipulation to get people to blame their problems on others.

The difference is one side isn't promoting wiping out other races to fix the problem. Pointing out that the way white supremacy recruits and grooms their terrorists really isn't much different than the way Muslim extremists do is something that must have attention brought to it. Hopefully making people well aware of that will help stop at least some people from falling victim to it.

I wanted to edit this to add more context. My response is not to try to discredit or make light of the points you made regarding mental health. They are quite valid. My point is that as with anything else, the fuel you provide anything with is directly connected to the outcome and performance. We see in many mass shootings that such racial motivation is not a component of the events. But we also see that in many of them it is.

This situation has more than one component. Focusing on one of the major components while trying to downplay the other major component isn't an honest way of looking at the problem as a whole.

Last edited by PitDAWG; 05/18/22 12:29 PM.

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This situation has more than one component. Focusing on one of the major components while trying to downplay the other major component isn't an honest way of looking at the problem as a whole.

I could challenge you on whether or not the various factors are all major components, but I won't do that right now. Instead, I will say that I have seen multiple political posts that bash the right. I have seen posts about guns. However, no one is talking about mental illness. My beef w/threads like this is that folks are using tragedies to further their own ideals on political parties and issues such as gun control. I realize that this is a Political forum, but if we are ever going to help improve the huge problem of the mentally ill, legislation needs to occur.

Hell, we are still so backwards when it comes to dealing w/the mental illness. We still have people making fun of the mentally ill. mac has even said that I have "a problem" to me twice since I returned. He is insinuating that it's a mental health issue. I personally would not want mac's sympathy if I did have a mental health issue, but the fact that folks are still using mental health issues as form of insulting, belittling, and making fun of other individuals is an indicator of just how backwards American society is on the issue. And each time that folks want to use these issues to further their political rallying cries and ignore the real culprit, we are only compounding the problem.

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I have actually mentioned mental illness being one of the components in these mass shootings more than once in this thread.

And I agree with you about the condition of mental health in America. We are both old enough to remember the mental health system being torn apart in America with nothing of substance replacing it. We have both witnessed the results since that time. I'm still not sure how that changes the fact that when you feed people with mental issues violence and hate that's not what you will get in return.


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I started off as a Psych major, but switched. I did do an internship at Apple Creek State Hospital a long time ago. It was freaking brutal. And the worst thing is that we don't even have those facilities now, so things are worse. I don't know........I have always had a soft spot in my heart for those w/mental health issues. Also, I actually feel that the way we are dealing w/our troubled youths is nurturing these violent, hateful outbursts. The intentions are good by a lot of the psychologists and guidance counselors in the schools, but it's not effective. I think a lot of these guys are similar to what Swish was talking about in the Replacement Theory post where guys can't get girls because they are so weird. Then, they have employment issues. Shunned by most of their peers. Combine that w/excuses being made for the poor behavior every step of the way and they blame others for their misfortune. They are attracted to these hate groups because they feel as if they are victims. I just think we need to work harder at identifying these people and finding new ways to treat them.

Okay........I'll stop and step-down from my soap box now. I do appreciate your responses instead of just ignoring mine or making fun of them.

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I'd say we agree on all points in your post. I don't consider your post standing on a soap box. While I won't get into details I have very real world experiences in dealing with some people close to me that have dealt with severe mental issues that in a couple of cases have ended in suicide. I think it negatively impacts far more families and people than we know. Some even consider getting help a sign of weakness and never address their issues. It's a shame.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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Please Stop This.

Please.

If we can spend billions on defense and can not stop this. Who are we?

This has to stop.

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Texas..a mass shooting "at a freaking school"...hmm...

I've mentioned this before as a first step, schools must control the entrances to schools with armed guards and metal detectors to ensure kids are safe at school. The cost for such security should be footed by gun organizations, gun manufacturers as well all retailers who sell the guns. Taxpayers SHOULD NOT be forced to foot the bill for this necessary security that is needed to ensure the protection of students, teachers and school staff.

All schools should be required to provide a safe environment at school and do all they can to protect students from some gun toting idiot looking to just kill innocent school kids.

Just a first step...a lot more work needs to be done concerning guns...jmo, mac




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Fourteen Elementary School Children! God. That is so heartbreaking.

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I effing can not stand politics.
Screw republicans and democrats. Shame on you all.

The people of the United States must demand that schools are safe.

This must stop.

The government of this country must act. We pay these people.

This can not be allowed to happen again.

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Preach!!!

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Originally Posted by mac
Texas..a mass shooting "at a freaking school"...hmm...

I've mentioned this before as a first step, schools must control the entrances to schools with armed guards and metal detectors to ensure kids are safe at school. The cost for such security should be footed by gun organizations, gun manufacturers as well all retailers who sell the guns. Taxpayers SHOULD NOT be forced to foot the bill for this necessary security that is needed to ensure the protection of students, teachers and school staff.

All schools should be required to provide a safe environment at school and do all they can to protect students from some gun toting idiot looking to just kill innocent school kids.

Just a first step...a lot more work needs to be done concerning guns...jmo, mac
How 'bout we just drop the political rhetoric and get something done.

There are 130,000 public schools. Each could be fortified for under 50G. That's 6.5B, we write more pork into every bill that hits the floor. Will you pitch in 20 bucks? If not, I got your back.

Last edited by FATE; 05/24/22 06:42 PM. Reason: bad math

HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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WHAT ARE WE DOING?


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Saw that a few minutes ago. POWERFUL.

Enough.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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I spent the morning with my 6 month old Great Granddaughter and when I got home I heard about the massacre of 14 innocent children and 1 teacher who went o school today not knowing this was going to happen. I began to think of how devastated these families are tonight, I also have a 14 year old Grandson still in school, I cannot imagine to pain and hurt I would be feeling tonight if it were one of my Grandchildren, these children were babies, 7-8-9 years old. We all have Children, Grandchildren, nephews, nieces, or maybe our wife or husband is a teacher, folks we are living in an evil world and what ever you may believe in these families need our prayers tonight, they need the peace and comfort that only Jesus Christ can give them, I'm not preaching just asking you to search your hearts and pray for these families and our own ... God Bless You


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I am physically sick to my stomach.

This has clawed at me for years. Since the first time it happened.

Sandy Hook. And people like alex jones have fans?

Who are we? No place in the world but here. And it has gone on and on and on.

Forget the dead gunman. This is on us. We the people of this country and those elected to Congress.


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j/c:

I'm really sick of the left and that is why I left them. mac posts the Supermarket thread and w/in about 4-5 posts, we had cries from the left about not allowing right wingers like Tucker Carlson or whatever his name is not being allowed to give his opinions and about white supremacists. Now, w/in a couple of posts where the shooter is apparently a minority, we hear about guns. It's always the fault of the right according to those on the left.

I'm sure if the demographics of this board was more right than left, than the talk would have already started about securing our borders.

I see a common denominator........hate and bias fuels most of the opinions that ooze like a seeping septic system from supporters of both parties. Perhaps we might want to consider spreading so much hate and become a more tolerant and understanding society?

Makes me sick! Using the death of 14 children as a political platform.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
j/c:

Makes me sick! Using the death of 14 children as a political platform.

Amen +1 And it is now 18 Children and 3 Adults ...

Last edited by PastorMarc; 05/24/22 07:33 PM.

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At the end of the day there needs to be police officers, armed check points at every school door. No ifs, and, buts about it.

Do that immediately, that would solve the problem by tomorrow. At the same time expand mental health care which is something I'd gladly pay into.

Those kids were just beginning their lives, it makes me sick.

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With the political BS out of my way.........please allow me to say this. I taught for a long time. Mainly high school and middle school. However, when I moved to SC, I taught 5th graders for 9 years and 4th graders for 1 year. I loved 5th graders. They tried hard. Wanted to please. Weren't beaten down by the system yet. Respectful, for the most part. Eager to learn for the most part. Enthusiastic. Innocent for the most part. Vulnerable.

I recall how often we practiced lock downs. I allowed the class to develop a strategy of where we would huddle together inside the classroom. Windows were a huge consideration as was the doorway. The kids were great but what sticks w/me the most......and I want y'all to hear this..... even during routine lockdowns, the fear amongst my students was palatable. Just the thought that the school might be invaded and/or that some of them might be shot absolutely terrified them.

These are our children. Will y'all please stop the political manipulations and spend some time grieving for these poor children and their families. I cannot imagine having one of my children taken from me when they were so young. I get that we want to try and do more to protect them, but can y'all show some humanity?

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Damn. I didn't hear that. I literally have tears in my eyes.

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This was too much for me today. I think I’ve just honestly given up hope. People treat this country like they are sports fans. They pick a side and ignore every ugly and destructive element about their “team”.

How do we do that when little children are being shot? When babies can’t be fed? When older people are gunned down just shopping for groceries? And on and on and on….

After the last many years of watching how all parties and their followers have behaved, I cannot imagine a country or a world where anything gets resolved or we become in any way united. It’s sickening, and where I used to feel hope, I no longer do.

We have created this nightmare. We are the monster.

This is not hyperbole anymore. It is a sad reality.

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j/c...


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Guns do not kill people. People kill people.

RIP to all the victims and prayers to the families.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
I am physically sick to my stomach.

This has clawed at me for years. Since the first time it happened.



um.

The first documented school shooting happened in 1764 by a group of American Indians who killed all but 2 children in the school.

I highly doubt you were around for that.


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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...


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Why cant schools have metal detectors? We can keep stadiums safe but not schools?


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Originally Posted by EveDawg
Why cant schools have metal detectors? We can keep stadiums safe but not schools?

They can. I almost responded to tasty earlier when he mentioned that and armed guards. I just want all to consider this.

I worked in E. Cleveland at an Alternative School where kids who were kicked out of E. Cleveland schools could attend. We also had some other kids whose parents wanted them out of E. Cleveland schools. For those that do not know, E. Cleveland schools were the roughest of the rough and to get kicked out of them took some doing.

A ton of our kids had gang affiliations. Thus, we had metal detectors, armed guards, dogs that sniffed the students as they entered and their lockers during the school day. It was necessary due to the circumstances. On the flip side, it seemed more like a prison than a place of learning. That's a terrible environment to endure. It's the opposite of nurturing. Some of us teachers--not all--really worked hard to support the kids and provide a nurturing environment, but most of the teachers sucked. Not many wanted to be there. I did want to be there. I left a middle school job in the school system w/the highest income per capita in the entire state to take a job in the worst locale I could possibly find in my driving distance. And I drove over an hour each way to teach there. I arrived before other teachers and stayed later despite the drive. The rewards were great and I still have all the letters from my students to pick me up when I am down, but damn Eve........it was so stressful.

Do we want our children to attend schools where there are metal detectors, guns, and police dogs? Is that a nurturing environment? I can tell you that it was so freaking depressing for the students and staff to work in that environment. A huge part of my efforts was to negate the negativity of the school's environment.

I really don't have the answers. I mean........I wish w/all my heart that folks would stop w/all this hate. Day in and day out we are subjected to hateful messages from both sides. Fascists. Libtards. Hitler comparisons. Feminazis. We are our own worst enemy because we plant seeds of hate and then are surprised when the grown plant grows branches of hate and ultimately....violence.

Thus, we may have to turn to armed guards, metal detectors, police dogs, etc to protect our children because our adults are too immature to handle differences like adults and in return, our children must suffer the sins of their fathers and mothers. Just imagine being a child who is still in single digits and having to enter schools w/armed guards and metal detectors. It reads almost like one of those futuristic novels from back in the day where society has become completely manufactured, sterile, and devoid of compassion.

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