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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
I agree in principle, but the way these cases are disposed of leaves too much room for doubt IMO. If these are settled and no new facts are revealed or released proving him innocent (or at least not a total rapey scumbag), I can't root for him. That becomes a major issue for me personally. I don't know about you. We all know allegations can falsely ruin a man's career, and I don't want to do that by assuming his guilt or culpability. But I also will not root for a rapey scumbag, no matter who he plays for. No way I would have rooted for Ben, because I know exactly who he WAS coming out of college, rather he still is or not. My daughter went to school there and everybody knew Ben was full of himself and would use his star status on women. He could have easily went to jail over some of the things I heard. But again, I can't be sure how accurate those claims were, even coming from my daughter. She never personally interacted with him.

The women in this case did, and I would like to hear them on the stand. Not some article where they can easily cover their bases on being fact checked, but on stand under the pressure of legal testimony. If the accusations stand up after that, smh, what should we think? If not, it makes it easier to have him here by leaps and bounds. I couldn't care less about a Super Bowl right now, and can't believe I'm in a position to even feel that way. Hell, I've wanted that for the Browns since I was a kid. How do you turn that off? Like this I reckon, bring in a star QB with all these rapey allegations, while crapping on the guy you said would start and just extended. This whole situation is mind blowing to me from a business and moral sense. Just as a fan, anything to win sounded good until now. But suddenly a larger than you think portion of the fanbase NEEDS these answers, or it's going to be very hard going forward. And I don't think winning will cure this, personally.

For me it boggles my mind how a single person can offer up that asking for a trade and being upset after being replaced is a glaring character issue for a person while also completely overlooking 22 allegations by different women for someone else. Like I read earlier today, if he had gotten the hint after two or three it wouldn't seem so bad but at least 22 seems really concerning. It seems reasonable that people take a step back at that point and become cautious about supporting that person. I am not sure why that is an issue for other people. There are so many disingenuous arguments on both sides at this point I am not sure fans care about the truth.


The upside that someone said that echoed with me, I can support every other player on the team without reservation and still be concerned about the character of one. The guys supporting Watson are doing that now, they just take issue with a different QB so it shouldnt seem strange to them either.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I probably have not followed the legal proceedings as closely as others. You keep saying "rapey scumbag." I haven't heard of allegations of rape. Did I miss that or is that just a conclusion that some are drawing because their minds are already made up?

rapey
/ˈrāpē/
adjectiveINFORMAL
sexually aggressive or inappropriate in a way that causes fear or unease.
"I always got a real rapey vibe from them"

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For me it boggles my mind how a single person can offer up that asking for a trade and being upset after being replaced is a glaring character issue for a person while also completely overlooking 22 allegations by different women for someone else.

Statements like this one are why I asked that the legal matters be moved to the Tailgate forum. Every other single legal issue that I have read on this board was moved to the Tailgate forum. Like the Ezekiel Elliot case. The Urban Meyer thing when an assistant coach's wife accused her husband of abuse. Like the Adrian Peterson thing. The Kareem Hunt situation. The Ray Rice situation. The Tyreek Hill situation. Etc, etc, etc.

This is supposed to be a "Pure Football forum." The powers that be chose to allow the legal issues into this forum and that is Purp's right. It is his board. He can do as he pleases. The problem occurs is that we are now faced w/interpretations of character. There is no doubt that the allegations surrounding Watson are far more severe than anything Baker has ever done. Yet, since this is the Pure Football forum.........I am trying to view this in football terms. Baker is no longer wanted in the Brown's locker room. He's gone no matter what. He talked too much and burned bridges w/his teammates, coaches, and ultimately, the FO. Not one person in the Brown's organization has come to his defense. In fact, not one team or player in the league has said they want him on their team. On the other hand, have we heard any players complaining about Watson being on the team? Were other teams not interested in bringing Watson on board?

Thus, while you may wish to chastise others who don't see it your way.........I am simply looking at it from a "football" perspective. That is why I didn't think the legal issues belonged here because I knew that eventually the two circles would conjoin and form a Venn diagram of sorts. There is a difference when defining "character" in every day life and "character" on a football team.

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Rape: unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.

There are multiple women with civil suits that claim they were forced to give Watson oral sex. Thus, the comment "rapey scumbag" would fit the allegations. That is not drawing some conclusion, whether with force or not, without consent can be called rape.


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An allegation is not proof. You keep forgetting that.

Look man.........you wanna believe he is guilty.....more power to you. However, you aren't changing my mind that I am not going to proclaim him innocent or guilty and will allow the courts to decide. Thus far, Watson has not been charged of any criminal crime. The civil cases are pending. I understand that you have your mind made up, but you will never convince me to be part of the mob mentality.

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You have it all wrong, I don't believe he's guilty. I believe that he should have his day in court just the same as the 22 women that say he sexually assaulted them. Unlike you, I don't believe that you push these women's claims to the side in a timeout for 10 months so Watson can go play his football games. That is total disrespect of the women and the law. Watson being able to play or serve a minor suspension is rewarding his behavior while the women, justified or not, are reliving their alleged bad experience with Watson every time they even hear his name. Add to that fact, every sports service nationwide is more interested in whether Watson will be playing or not on a daily basis while the women are an afterthought.

Unfortunately for you, that is not being a part of a mob mentality. That's just a quest for "Justice For All" whether Watson is innocent or guilty and football shouldn't have any bearing on the cases at all - NONE! That is why I have said the NFL should suspend Watson indefinitely, to protect the image of the league, until the matter is addressed properly for both sides. Football, IMHO, shouldn't have any consideration in these cases.

I just wish that you were as zealous for the plight of the women as you are for Watson to be able to play.


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That is why I have said the NFL should suspend Watson indefinitely, to protect the image of the league, until the matter is addressed properly for both sides.

Yet, Pit will continue to claim that no one is campaigning for Watson to be suspended.

Look steve.........you have your way of thinking and you have expressed it. I view things differently. I don't think I am in position to judge one's innocence or guilt. You have an issue w/that. So be it. However, I won't change my mind because you pressure me to do so.

And one last thing........about this quote:


Quote
I just wish that you were as zealous for the plight of the women as you are for Watson to be able to play.

That is a low blow and I almost guarantee you that I have done more to help others than you have. I also have a high respect of women. I married a minority. She is very successful and I am not intimidated by that like many other males are. I raised my daughter to never ever become dependent on a male. Accept it if is genuine, but make sure you educate yourself where you don't need anyone. I have championed minorities, and I am including females in the work place in this, for decades. So shut your mouth w/such baseless accusations.

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Steve, let me play devils advocate to your devils advocate....What if they do suspend him indefinitely...then next year, he goes and wins all 22 cases...he already wasn't allowed to play last year...and then get suspended for another full year...and in the end, he would have been shown not to have done anything wrong...You would be ok with that?(just asking...not accusing)

I think the NFL as was said earlier to be in a no win situation...And MLB and their pre-emptive nuclear deterrent of punishment isn't helping things. It isn't helping victims of domestic violence or sexual assault, and it certainly isn't helping people who might be falsely accused. I can't agree with an indefinite ban until things are cleared up in the civil cases...Once you impose it...you can't take it back. They either need to be specific, eg, 0, 4, 8, 10 games, or they should hold off until the cases are completed next year.

Personally, I have no idea what is going to happen...Much like Vers, I am not saying he is guilty or innocent. in fact since these are civil cases he is not guilty or innocent. Two Grand Juries have stated as such...So I actually hate the connotation of guilt or innocence in these discussions. So rather I should say I don't know what he did or did not do and I am not going to speculate. I am going to let things play out. As such I am going to keep an open mind to all possibilities. I will not try him in the court of mob mentality. In fact I won't judge him at all. I am not on any jury, I don't have all the information and may never get any information. All I can ethically do is make decisions based on the results.

If he is found responsible in the civil trials....Then he deserves all that comes his way...But if he isn't.....Well there is a group of people that won't even consider that possibility even if that were to happen...


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Browns Get Bad News on Deshaun Watson's Legal Issues

By Ryan Phillips
May 17, 2022
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The Cleveland Browns just received a serious body blow when it comes to their new quarterback. The legal issues Deshaun Watson has been facing for more than a year won't be resolved until at least 2023. That means the issues related to allegations sexual misconduct and assault leveled against him will hang over the franchise for at least another year.

On Tuesday it was reported that Tony Buzbee, the attorney representing 22 women suing Watson for sexual misconduct and sexual assault, and Rusty Hardin, Watson's defense attorney, haven't been able to agree on a number of issues. That has pushed the proceedings back so much that it would violate an agreed-upon moratorium set to last from August 1, 2022 to March 1, 2023.

Watson still has a number of depositions remaining and will have at least six in June alone. There's no way to get everything done and start the trials before the August 1 date. That means they'll all begin after March 1, 2023, just after Watson's first season with the Browns ends.

While it's nowhere near the most important aspect of this story, the Browns would almost certainly prefer Watson to just settle the lawsuits and put it behind him. He has steadfastly refused to do so. Now Browns officials, coaches and Watson's teammates will be asked about his issues continuously.

The Browns pushed all their chips in on the 26-year-old quarterback despite his troubling off-field issues. They sent first-round draft picks in 2022, 2023 and 2024, as well as a third-rounder in 2023, and fourth-rounders in 2022 and 2024 in exchange for Watson and a 2024 sixth-round pick. Then they handed Watson a five-year, $230 million deal that's fully guaranteed, making him the highest-paid player in NFL history. Given everything they gave up for him and the contract he received, Cleveland needs its new franchise quarterback on the field.




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Nice post. The scary thing is that guys like steve, Pit, mac, Lex, etc are probably eligible for jury trials. Imagine being tried for a crime and having jury members who have already deemed you guilty before the case has been tried?

That's beyond scary, but all too real.

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Uhmmm mac............I reported that news quite some time ago. However, the take from that article wasn't about "bad news." Because if we want to be fair--and I know you are not interested in fairness because you are upset about Baker---but, the decision to suspend Watson should be postponed until the cases have been completed. Thus, that information is probably good news for the Browns and Watson.

With that said............as I mentioned before......I am not sure if that fairness and accuracy are actual concerns of the NFL.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
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For me it boggles my mind how a single person can offer up that asking for a trade and being upset after being replaced is a glaring character issue for a person while also completely overlooking 22 allegations by different women for someone else.

Statements like this one are why I asked that the legal matters be moved to the Tailgate forum. Every other single legal issue that I have read on this board was moved to the Tailgate forum. Like the Ezekiel Elliot case. The Urban Meyer thing when an assistant coach's wife accused her husband of abuse. Like the Adrian Peterson thing. The Kareem Hunt situation. The Ray Rice situation. The Tyreek Hill situation. Etc, etc, etc.

This is supposed to be a "Pure Football forum." The powers that be chose to allow the legal issues into this forum and that is Purp's right. It is his board. He can do as he pleases. The problem occurs is that we are now faced w/interpretations of character. There is no doubt that the allegations surrounding Watson are far more severe than anything Baker has ever done. Yet, since this is the Pure Football forum.........I am trying to view this in football terms. Baker is no longer wanted in the Brown's locker room. He's gone no matter what. He talked too much and burned bridges w/his teammates, coaches, and ultimately, the FO. Not one person in the Brown's organization has come to his defense. In fact, not one team or player in the league has said they want him on their team. On the other hand, have we heard any players complaining about Watson being on the team? Were other teams not interested in bringing Watson on board?

Thus, while you may wish to chastise others who don't see it your way.........I am simply looking at it from a "football" perspective. That is why I didn't think the legal issues belonged here because I knew that eventually the two circles would conjoin and form a Venn diagram of sorts. There is a difference when defining "character" in every day life and "character" on a football team.


Vers I've been quiet for quite awhile but you have a huge case of confession thru projection. You call people out on things that you do and then pretend you are annoyed by that behavior. You claim that I "wish to chastise others who dont see it your way" but you have done that post after post after post after post...

I am sorry that something I find to be really silly applies to you and you feel offended. I didn't quote you and call you out for it. Yes, if someone feels that Baker behavior is unacceptable and DeShaun can't be looked on badly by anyone I believe that opinion is silly. You can disagree if you want, right? Maybe stay out of the topic if the discussion bothers you? But blaming other people because you don't like their opinion...that shouldn't fit in any forum on this site.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Nice post. The scary thing is that guys like steve, Pit, mac, Lex, etc are probably eligible for jury trials. Imagine being tried for a crime and having jury members who have already deemed you guilty before the case has been tried?

That's beyond scary, but all too real.

...after post after post...

It's a shame you have to attack people that have a different opinion than you. I used to think you were a good poster years ago with really good takes on things. Whatever happened to that guy?

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I could have sworn that this discourse between you and I started w/this comment:


Quote
For me it boggles my mind how a single person can offer up that asking for a trade and being upset after being replaced is a glaring character issue for a person while also completely overlooking 22 allegations by different women for someone else.

I will be frank. Kiss my ass w/your nonsense.

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Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
I agree in principle, but the way these cases are disposed of leaves too much room for doubt IMO. If these are settled and no new facts are revealed or released proving him innocent (or at least not a total rapey scumbag), I can't root for him. That becomes a major issue for me personally. I don't know about you. We all know allegations can falsely ruin a man's career, and I don't want to do that by assuming his guilt or culpability. But I also will not root for a rapey scumbag, no matter who he plays for. No way I would have rooted for Ben, because I know exactly who he WAS coming out of college, rather he still is or not. My daughter went to school there and everybody knew Ben was full of himself and would use his star status on women. He could have easily went to jail over some of the things I heard. But again, I can't be sure how accurate those claims were, even coming from my daughter. She never personally interacted with him.

The women in this case did, and I would like to hear them on the stand. Not some article where they can easily cover their bases on being fact checked, but on stand under the pressure of legal testimony. If the accusations stand up after that, smh, what should we think? If not, it makes it easier to have him here by leaps and bounds. I couldn't care less about a Super Bowl right now, and can't believe I'm in a position to even feel that way. Hell, I've wanted that for the Browns since I was a kid. How do you turn that off? Like this I reckon, bring in a star QB with all these rapey allegations, while crapping on the guy you said would start and just extended. This whole situation is mind blowing to me from a business and moral sense. Just as a fan, anything to win sounded good until now. But suddenly a larger than you think portion of the fanbase NEEDS these answers, or it's going to be very hard going forward. And I don't think winning will cure this, personally.

For me it boggles my mind how a single person can offer up that asking for a trade and being upset after being replaced is a glaring character issue for a person while also completely overlooking 22 allegations by different women for someone else. Like I read earlier today, if he had gotten the hint after two or three it wouldn't seem so bad but at least 22 seems really concerning. It seems reasonable that people take a step back at that point and become cautious about supporting that person. I am not sure why that is an issue for other people. There are so many disingenuous arguments on both sides at this point I am not sure fans care about the truth.


The upside that someone said that echoed with me, I can support every other player on the team without reservation and still be concerned about the character of one. The guys supporting Watson are doing that now, they just take issue with a different QB so it shouldnt seem strange to them either.

Are you OldColdDawg too, Vers??

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mac...first this has been known for a while, and I think it presumptive to say it is "bad news" In fact it was actually AGREED upon by both parties to not have any depositions or trials during the August to March time frame and NOT as reported in your article where it was a disagreement that is pushing things back. How can an agreement between the 2 sides be a bad thing? In fact ....IF Deshaun is allowed to play this year, he won't have to have this hanging over him as he knows he won't have to deal with it until March. Just another way to look at it.

Terrible article and an example of failed journalism in this country. Could it stay a story for that whole time...I guess it could be...but with no new developments to happen during that time frame....well anything written would be a waste of time to read.


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Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Nice post. The scary thing is that guys like steve, Pit, mac, Lex, etc are probably eligible for jury trials. Imagine being tried for a crime and having jury members who have already deemed you guilty before the case has been tried?

That's beyond scary, but all too real.

...after post after post...

It's a shame you have to attack people that have a different opinion than you. I used to think you were a good poster years ago with really good takes on things. Whatever happened to that guy?

For the record, I ignored multiple posts from you about me in the past. Grew tired of it. I will put it to you this way......if you think I am so insulting, I will surely stop instantly in replying to anything you say. On the condition that you leave me alone, as well? I s that fair? Is that a deal?

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Nice post. The scary thing is that guys like steve, Pit, mac, Lex, etc are probably eligible for jury trials. Imagine being tried for a crime and having jury members who have already deemed you guilty before the case has been tried?

That's beyond scary, but all too real.

...after post after post...

It's a shame you have to attack people that have a different opinion than you. I used to think you were a good poster years ago with really good takes on things. Whatever happened to that guy?

For the record, I ignored multiple posts from you about me in the past. Grew tired of it. I will put it to you this way......if you think I am so insulting, I will surely stop instantly in replying to anything you say. On the condition that you leave me alone, as well? I s that fair? Is that a deal?

Dude, you responded to a post I made to someone else and called me out so quit playing the victim. You 'attack' other posters and act like an ass, own your mistakes or don't it really doesn't matter. If you hadn't responded to my post calling me out I would have kept on ignoring you because I do not believe you are worth any discussion anymore. I think Baker wrecked you.

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Lex............I am waiting? I saw you read the post. What say you? You want me to stop "attacking" you, as you put it? I promise w/all my heart that I will never respond to you again provided you leave me alone as well. You cool w/that, bro?

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Yes? Or no? Your choice.

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Are you guys really going to be happy inside when the Browns AFC Championship/Super Bowl appearance will be behind a "Probable" Female Abuser???

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Originally Posted by SuperBrown
Are you guys really going to be happy inside when the Browns only AFC Championship/Super Bowl appearance will be behind a "Probable" Female Abuser???

A couple of things. No one is forcing you to root for the Browns. If you are so disgusted by the Browns signing Watson, there is no shame in you leaving. Go root for another team or no team at all. I would never blame you for either. On the other hand, who the hell are you to tell me who to root for? Just asking.

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Yo Lex.........I checked online again and you are still viewing this thread. So......what say you? You want me to stop "attacking" you? I don't think I was attacking you, but I promise I will stop responding to your posts if you agree to do the same. You cool w/that, bro? Or, do you want to continue the fight? Your choice, bro.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Yo Lex.........I checked online again and you are still viewing this thread. So......what say you? You want me to stop "attacking" you? I don't think I was attacking you, but I promise I will stop responding to your posts if you agree to do the same. You cool w/that, bro? Or, do you want to continue the fight? Your choice, bro.

This reads like a teen texted another teen
“Sup? Why you keep ghosting me girl? I see your online and your just ignoring my messages saying the same thing over and over again. If you agree to just agree to not ever me make bad again. I’ll do the same. I know your not trying to make me look bad. It just really hurts my feeling when you ignore me. It seems like your happier when I’m not in your life. Are you seeing someone else”.

Leave people alone and quite acting like a child. This is a place for men, and ladies to discuss football. Take this nonsense to pms and quit ruining this board with your feelings.

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Originally Posted by highoman
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Yo Lex.........I checked online again and you are still viewing this thread. So......what say you? You want me to stop "attacking" you? I don't think I was attacking you, but I promise I will stop responding to your posts if you agree to do the same. You cool w/that, bro? Or, do you want to continue the fight? Your choice, bro.

This reads like a teen texted another teen
“Sup? Why you keep ghosting me girl? I see your online and your just ignoring my messages saying the same thing over and over again. If you agree to just agree to not ever me make bad again. I’ll do the same. I know your not trying to make me look bad. It just really hurts my feeling when you ignore me. It seems like your happier when I’m not in your life. Are you seeing someone else”.

Leave people alone and quite acting like a child. This is a place for men, and ladies to discuss football. Take this nonsense to pms and quit ruining this board with your feelings.

It sounds like Vers wants to do that. And he is dealing with it like a man. He is confronting the issue and not tossing in comments from somewhere in the back row.


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Originally Posted by mac
Browns Get Bad News on Deshaun Watson's Legal Issues

By Ryan Phillips
May 17, 2022
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The Cleveland Browns just received a serious body blow when it comes to their new quarterback. The legal issues Deshaun Watson has been facing for more than a year won't be resolved until at least 2023. That means the issues related to allegations sexual misconduct and assault leveled against him will hang over the franchise for at least another year.

On Tuesday it was reported that Tony Buzbee, the attorney representing 22 women suing Watson for sexual misconduct and sexual assault, and Rusty Hardin, Watson's defense attorney, haven't been able to agree on a number of issues. That has pushed the proceedings back so much that it would violate an agreed-upon moratorium set to last from August 1, 2022 to March 1, 2023.

Watson still has a number of depositions remaining and will have at least six in June alone. There's no way to get everything done and start the trials before the August 1 date. That means they'll all begin after March 1, 2023, just after Watson's first season with the Browns ends.

While it's nowhere near the most important aspect of this story, the Browns would almost certainly prefer Watson to just settle the lawsuits and put it behind him. He has steadfastly refused to do so. Now Browns officials, coaches and Watson's teammates will be asked about his issues continuously.

The Browns pushed all their chips in on the 26-year-old quarterback despite his troubling off-field issues. They sent first-round draft picks in 2022, 2023 and 2024, as well as a third-rounder in 2023, and fourth-rounders in 2022 and 2024 in exchange for Watson and a 2024 sixth-round pick. Then they handed Watson a five-year, $230 million deal that's fully guaranteed, making him the highest-paid player in NFL history. Given everything they gave up for him and the contract he received, Cleveland needs its new franchise quarterback on the field.


Here is the last paragraph of the above story..it was sandwiched between a couple of ads further down the page..sorry for missing it.


Trading for and signing Watson was a huge risk for the Browns that carried a tremendous downside. It appears they're going to have to deal with the repercussions through at least the 2022 season and possibly longer. The quarterback and the franchise will face endless scrutiny and these issues won't just be swept under the rug. Nor should they be.

The Browns chose this path knowing the issues. This kind of negative attention is fully deserved for all of the parties involved in this mess.
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vers and pete...speaking to both of you, this article might not be one that fits your opinion and you might very well disagree with what the "author" of the article wrote...BUT, understand this, I post articles, from many sources, to help keep the board informed about what is being said "by the authors".

These articles are not my opinion though sometimes I will give my opinion on the information included within an article. Most of the time I post articles without giving my opinion because I'm not looking to sway anyone's opinion..I'm simply forwarding the news to the board and prefer to let folks make up their own mind.

This article was posted on the web on Tuesday, May 17 and while it may touch on issues that have been discussed in the past, it is not an "old news" article. Those attempting to label the information as nothing but a repost of an earlier article, I would disagree. IMO, Browns fans are concerned about what the franchise did, getting involved in a messy situation that might not end any time soon.

Now, I'm going to give my opinion about this article...this article points out a fact that I have touched on from the beginning of the Watson deal...the sooner Watson and his team of lawyers and advisors get the entire 22 civil cases settled..the better it will be for the Browns and Browns fans.


Last edited by mac; 05/19/22 08:08 AM.



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You are entitled to your opinion, mac. On the other hand, I respect Watson's decision if he is innocent and doesn't wish to settle the matter. It's his name that is on the line. Not mine. Not yours.

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Originally Posted by mac
vers and pete...speaking to both of you, this article might not be one that fits your opinion and you might very well disagree with what the "author" of the article wrote...BUT, understand this, I post articles, from many sources, to help keep the board informed about what is being said "by the authors".

These articles are not my opinion though sometimes I will give my opinion on the information included within an article. Most of the time I post articles without giving my opinion because I'm not looking to sway anyone's opinion...I'm simply forwarding the news to the board and prefer to let folks make up their own mind.

This article was posted on the web on Tuesday, May 17 and while it may touch on issues that have been discussed in the past, it is not an "old news" article. Those attempting to label the information as nothing but a repost of an earlier article, I would disagree. IMO, Browns fans are concerned about what the franchise did, getting involved in a messy situation that might not end any time soon.

Now, I'm going to give my opinion about this article...this article points out a fact that I have touched on from the beginning of the Watson deal...the sooner Watson and his team of lawyers and advisors get the entire 22 civil cases settled...the better it will be for the Browns and Browns fans.

Ummmm Good for you????....why so defensive? You posted an article, I gave my thoughts about that article in that it was presumptive, old news, and poor journalism. Would it be nice and better if things were shored up before the season??? sure. But It would also be nice and good if my company gave me a 200K raise. Neither is going to happen...but that doesn't mean it is bad news. In the Browns case, the story is there...but as there will be no new developments, it will be a stale story...And someone that consistently brings it up or continues to harp on this...knowing that there will be no developments, is showing a bias and agenda (not a diligence as one would suggest)...

To quote an OLD Sidney Croft show....No Gnu's is good Gnu's....lol And really that is what this hiatus is...could it be better news...sure...but that doesn't mean it is "bad"...


I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...

What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
The scary thing is that guys like steve, Pit, mac, Lex, etc are probably eligible for jury trials. Imagine being tried for a crime and having jury members who have already deemed you guilty before the case has been tried?

That's beyond scary, but all too real.

You know - I don't want to get dragged into this back and forth. At this point it feels like different folks have different opinions and none of them are willing to simply accept that people have different perspectives. Because of the highly emotive topic I guess that's maybe to be expected idk.

What I will point out - is that while it's been established that very few were defending Watson as if he was innocent (we did have a few posts claiming the lack of prosecution by the Grand Jury was a proclamation of innocence which I think has since been put to bed).... I also think overwhelmingly posters have made it clear no-one is pre-determining Watson's guilt. Communication is hard at the best of times - but when posters have what might be a harder line that others, but then spell out that they don't think Watson is guilty until the conclusion of the civil cases and more evidence is provided one way or the other ... you have to take them at their word. just how I see it.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by highoman
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Yo Lex.........I checked online again and you are still viewing this thread. So......what say you? You want me to stop "attacking" you? I don't think I was attacking you, but I promise I will stop responding to your posts if you agree to do the same. You cool w/that, bro? Or, do you want to continue the fight? Your choice, bro.

This reads like a teen texted another teen
“Sup? Why you keep ghosting me girl? I see your online and your just ignoring my messages saying the same thing over and over again. If you agree to just agree to not ever me make bad again. I’ll do the same. I know your not trying to make me look bad. It just really hurts my feeling when you ignore me. It seems like your happier when I’m not in your life. Are you seeing someone else”.

Leave people alone and quite acting like a child. This is a place for men, and ladies to discuss football. Take this nonsense to pms and quit ruining this board with your feelings.



It sounds like Vers wants to do that. And he is dealing with it like a man. He is confronting the issue and not tossing in comments from somewhere in the back row.


“Back row” sounds like anyone not the 10-15 people that post here anymore. I’ve been here since beginning, and this site is trash because of “front row”’posters that ruin every thread trying to keep defend their honor.

Seriously, the Reddit board has more useful knowledge, and maturity. And that’s saying a lot. Me and so many others barely engage in conversations her anymore. All off topic and basically just scroll through same ol posters doing same ol nonsense.

Love the idea of this board and still read, though a lot less these days. Better options out there. Nice to come back and see it run by the same 10-15 posters. Hey when it’s actually about football, pretty good insight involved. But heaven forbid someone disagrees with someone. O my god. Even worse if your not part of the cool kids. I seen people post and totally get ignored if they have less than 5000 posts.

And the comment of he’s dealing with it like a man? Did you really type that with a straight face?

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I also think overwhelmingly posters have made it clear no-one is pre-determining Watson's guilt.

I think that saying you're no longer a fan of the team because of Watson is pre-determining his guilt.


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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by mac
Browns Get Bad News on Deshaun Watson's Legal Issues

By Ryan Phillips
May 17, 2022
link


The Cleveland Browns just received a serious body blow when it comes to their new quarterback. The legal issues Deshaun Watson has been facing for more than a year won't be resolved until at least 2023. That means the issues related to allegations sexual misconduct and assault leveled against him will hang over the franchise for at least another year.

On Tuesday it was reported that Tony Buzbee, the attorney representing 22 women suing Watson for sexual misconduct and sexual assault, and Rusty Hardin, Watson's defense attorney, haven't been able to agree on a number of issues. That has pushed the proceedings back so much that it would violate an agreed-upon moratorium set to last from August 1, 2022 to March 1, 2023.

Watson still has a number of depositions remaining and will have at least six in June alone. There's no way to get everything done and start the trials before the August 1 date. That means they'll all begin after March 1, 2023, just after Watson's first season with the Browns ends.

While it's nowhere near the most important aspect of this story, the Browns would almost certainly prefer Watson to just settle the lawsuits and put it behind him. He has steadfastly refused to do so. Now Browns officials, coaches and Watson's teammates will be asked about his issues continuously.

The Browns pushed all their chips in on the 26-year-old quarterback despite his troubling off-field issues. They sent first-round draft picks in 2022, 2023 and 2024, as well as a third-rounder in 2023, and fourth-rounders in 2022 and 2024 in exchange for Watson and a 2024 sixth-round pick. Then they handed Watson a five-year, $230 million deal that's fully guaranteed, making him the highest-paid player in NFL history. Given everything they gave up for him and the contract he received, Cleveland needs its new franchise quarterback on the field.


Here is the last paragraph of the above story..it was sandwiched between a couple of ads further down the page..sorry for missing it.


Trading for and signing Watson was a huge risk for the Browns that carried a tremendous downside. It appears they're going to have to deal with the repercussions through at least the 2022 season and possibly longer. The quarterback and the franchise will face endless scrutiny and these issues won't just be swept under the rug. Nor should they be.

The Browns chose this path knowing the issues. This kind of negative attention is fully deserved for all of the parties involved in this mess.
link
Well, let's be honest. The story was written to highlight the negative with some over the top vocabulary.

*The Browns knew the downside before they ever jumped on the plane.
*"Asked continually" was already baked in to the decision.
*This isn't necessarily "bad news", some may argue to the contrary.


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I’ll break up the fight for a minute with a pop quiz?

Why does a hypothetical professional athlete without significant injury visit 40 different massage therapists in a few years time?

Here are some hints:
(1) all are young, vulnerable women.
(2) 20 have filed sexual lawsuits against him.

My guess is he is an avid supporter of businesses run by females and that he got unlucky 50% of the time in picking women that did not like his professional team, so they are trying to destroy him.

Love to hear others explanations for this hypothetical.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
You know - I don't want to get dragged into this back and forth. At this point it feels like different folks have different opinions and none of them are willing to simply accept that people have different perspectives. Because of the highly emotive topic I guess that's maybe to be expected idk.

What I will point out - is that while it's been established that very few were defending Watson as if he was innocent (we did have a few posts claiming the lack of prosecution by the Grand Jury was a proclamation of innocence which I think has since been put to bed).... I also think overwhelmingly posters have made it clear no-one is pre-determining Watson's guilt. Communication is hard at the best of times - but when posters have what might be a harder line that others, but then spell out that they don't think Watson is guilty until the conclusion of the civil cases and more evidence is provided one way or the other ... you have to take them at their word. just how I see it.

I think a lot has been made of the idea of "guilt" which is not actually relevant. We have "turned on" many players as a fan base without them having to be guilty of anything. I think the QB shirt is a good example. For people that really want to support him they have decided unless he is found guilty in a court of law he must be supported or you are wrong. For others that feel 22 allegations are a great concern they aren't as willing to accept him. Other people have football related concerns.

But even if he does not settle and does not get found guilty I will continue to have concerns about him. His former team had someone to manage his massages due to an issue for a reason. 22 women made allegations against him. If all 22 women are lying he doesn't seem to realize how easily this can all get out of control, in my opinion. To me he is giving off Josh Gordon vibes with the messaging and behaviors, someone that didn't get a good handle on their choices and became a target, right or wrong. One bad choice will cost the team a ton of money and picks with nothing to show for it.

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Originally Posted by jfanent
Quote
I also think overwhelmingly posters have made it clear no-one is pre-determining Watson's guilt.

I think that saying you're no longer a fan of the team because of Watson is pre-determining his guilt.

I would disagree.

I think that many have expressed a "taint" associated with this signing and any success we have with him... there's been talk of an asterisk ... talk of being unsure if you can root for the player as we have done for other talented Brown's players. And unless he clears his name I think those labels/badges/insinuations will probably continue because as has been discussed here and elsewhere, no matter the legal rulings, that many massage therapists, that many paid for sexual liaisons is "creepy" if nothing else. Certainly not a role model for your kids and family .... and yes I agree with anyone that wants to suggest that kids need to look elsewhere than pro-sports for heroes and role models, but the concept/idea remains the same.

When the winning starts, when the Browns make a deep play off run ... the majority might not care. And that's ultimately what Haslam and the FO are banking on. But I don't believe that to feel a taint associated with this move is to suggest that fans are saying Watson is 100% guilty or that he doesn't deserve his chance to exonerate himself in the civil trials.


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Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
I’ll break up the fight for a minute with a pop quiz?

Why does a hypothetical professional athlete without significant injury visit 40 different massage therapists in a few years time?

Here are some hints:
(1) all are young, vulnerable women.
(2) 20 have filed sexual lawsuits against him.

My guess is he is an avid supporter of businesses run by females and that he got unlucky 50% of the time in picking women that did not like his professional team, so they are trying to destroy him.

Love to hear others explanations for this hypothetical.
No offense, but all of this was covered, and covered pages and pages of this board. You're a Baker fan that shows up late to fan the flames, I doubt that too many here will engage as we're all pretty burned out with the stuff that was covered the first three days.


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