DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Watson Suspended 6 Games

King Vers has spoken! Not only has he granted himself the power of saying who is and who isn't a troll, he has also granted himself the power of telling you who you can and who you can't respond to. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

Well as devils advocate...by your own logic you can argue that through Buzbee's actions or Solis' actions over 50 settlements happened. The reason I say this can be argued is that 99% of lawsuits are settled...And I only bring this up because there is an inference of a negative based on the settlement. (not based upon what Watson did or didn't do) So if 99% of law suits are settled is that an inference that 99% of the people who settled are guilty? That is the road that logic is travelling..

The fact is these lawsuits were ALWAYS going to be settled...from the very day they were submitted. Not because of Guilt or innocence but because of cost. Lets face it...Lawsuits are essentially blackmail as it does not matter if you are innocent, the lawsuit, implies you are not and as we have see throughout this whole process...nobody believes the one who is sued.

This is not a statement about Watson. This is a statement about the logic where the settlements matter in any way...

I guess this is what you say when your $230 million dollar QB is outed as a predator.




Weak sauce.

Each to their own but when a guy has 26 allegations of sexual misconduct against him, and the judge/arbitrator says the behavior was predatory.... it means the guy is a sexual predator. End of discussion. It means it wasn't a witch hunt. It means DW isn't innocent no matter how the DW fan club want to spin it.

Typical of you. Childish.

What point are you trying to hammer? Language? Dude got suspended for 6 games. The end.

Robinson called those settlements "restitution". Obviously from your comments some still aren't going to accept that.

We paid a ton of money to a sexual predator hoping he can win for us.

And he got suspended for the first 6 games before ever taking the field for us.

Yay us?

Do you mean DW FANBOYS?

I don't think so at all. She's saying that within the confines of the NFL's personal conduct policy, using his stature as an NFL QB to initiate contact with the therapists was predatory.

She also says that she is allowed NO OPINION on whether he committed sexual assault. If the NFL says winking at a house plant is sexual assault, she is "bound by their definition".

To take those two facts and come away with the opinion that she thinks he's a "sexual predator", as generally defined by society, is your prerogative. I don't think that's what she's saying, jmo.

Did I say that? NO, thanks.

Am I happy? No, not about getting him, not about the suspension. Ok?

Bottom line is, what does labeling him benefit anyone at this point? Nothing (other than some have a childish fetish to be 'right').

6 game suspension. Period. The end. I can root for the TEAM, without celebrating any individual player. And also, dw - there is no way he can live up to the hype some on here have brought.

What you're trying to do is dismiss and discount the language. What it says and what it doesn't say. I can understand why you and many others would want to do that. I'm not the one suggesting the Robinson decision and its content be swept under the rug. That would be you. Like it or not it's going to be discussed. And not just here. I know explaining that to you is like talking to the wall. It's why I didn't bother wasting my time with it in my previous response.

"As defined by society"? Or by it's definition? Because if you look at the definition, it's quite appropriate and in line with her ruling.

Sounds like the person with the overwhelming need to be right is you. People have a different opinion than you, is that okay with you?

Do I give crap people leeway just because they play or cheer for my team? No reason to do that, I can't give the Steelers crap for years and then totally sell out because I think a guy can win games. You don't have to agree with it.

Cool.

Okay, so dw is a crap person. No way I'll argue that. Short of not being a fan of the Browns anymore, what can anyone do about it? NOTHING.

Pit, what's your point again? You're on record as not being a Browns fan anymore.

And oddly, you're saying I'm trying to dismiss language? WHO CARES????? Other than you and 2 others. Childish.

And even odder, your failed attempt at making me seem like I don't care? Vers has, several times, called me a Baker Boy, Baker fan boy, etc.

Who the hell cares about the language? Is dw a creep? Sure. He got suspended for 6 games. Gees, let it go, you non browns fan.

I am really not following your trail of thought here. Because people cannot do anything themselves they must shut up? Or maybe not shut up, but just agree with you?

It seems that people that do not agree with his actions, or with what happened to the women should be allowed to have and voice an opinion, right? Apparently the solution is to call people who talk about it childish and tell them to quit talking about it? I am okay with the idea that the league punished him 6 games, the league can own that all day. Because of this they will probably have to modify the process more, I am okay with that too. What I do not think is okay is to assume everybody has to shut up now because he plays for the Browns.

j/c:



"Muted."

Watson is a predator in your eyes- your definition- let's get real about "our society"- not your idealized society- check it out- which country produces most PORN, no body in US looks or acts out porn,....Watson has faults, BUT he's not creep- he does LOTS more good than bad. I dislike the owners getting off with their HIGHER STANDARDS, yet a player loses six games maybe AND whole year last year- don't claim that had no bearing on this year.....sure it did. The NFL forced his hand last year- his "eternally damaged" plaintiffs all wanted and GOT MONEY. Hope our society looks at itself and fixes its problems. Keep throwing stones, you're blameless. Go Browns!!!

True. The judge didn't call him a predator, just that his behavior was predatory.

Goodell is in for a rough ride either way.. if he doesn't appeal the suspension, he'll likely look like a tone deaf fool that doesn't care about women..

If he does appeal, he'll get beat on for not following the terms of the suspension laid out by the Judge.

I agree w/this.

Of course he's going to follow the new rules,, what else can he do..

Like you said, weak sauce.. Very weak

I disagree. I think it's very simple for the NFL to say we abide by the independent arbiters ruling. Much more simple than the other path.

Well, I agree w/that as well. LOL

To clarify:

He is going to be criticized no matter what he decides. That is why I agreed w/Daman.

On the other hand, I think that would be more short-term criticism. Thus, I agree w/you that if he increases the penalty, the NFLPA will sue and all kinds of unwanted information about the NFL could be revealed. Additionally, the length of the proceedings will prolong the time period of the negative attention focused on the NFL.

I think it is wiser to just allow Judge Robinson's ruling to stand in the long run.

Interesting.



https://nypost.com/2022/08/01/deshaun-watsons-girlfriend-at-browns-training-camp-after-suspension/

Judge Robinson rejected Deshaun Watson’s categorical denial of the allegations against him
Posted by Mike Florio on August 1, 2022, 2:36 PM EDT

The full, 15-page decision in the Deshaun Watson case has been released. You can read it here.

And you should. It’s largely devoid of legalese and other jargon. But if you can’t or won’t read it (or if you did and you want our take on it), we’ll be posting several items regarding what it means, and where things may go from here.

For starters, one thing that seemed very significant is that Judge Robinson concluded, in the most tactful way possible, that Watson didn’t tell the truth when testifying. As noted at page 7, Watson declined to concede that he developed erections during massages, or that he inadvertently touched therapists with his penis. Judge Robinson wrote that he “categorically denied the allegations against him, including that he ever developed an erection during a massage.”

Then there’s this extremely important sentence: “It is difficult to give weight to a complete denial when weighed against the credible testimony of the investigators who interviewed the therapists and other third parties.”

In other words, Judge Robinson doesn’t believe him. She doesn’t believe him because the accounts from the accusers were, as explained in footnote 25 on page seven, “substantially corroborated” by “contemporaneous text messages and discussions with third parties after their interactions with Mr. Watson.” Also, as mentioned in footnote 26 on that same page, “some massage therapists who publicly supported Mr. Watson stated that he had become erect during sessions with them.”

This becomes critical to a potential appeal because the facts, as determined by Judge Robinson, become binding on both sides if/when the Commissioner or his designee are considering the ultimate punishment. Although Judge Robinson stopped short of being as blunt and candid as she could have been, the Commissioner could declare in the final written decision that Watson lied while testifying when he denied any wrongdoing and made the broad claim that he never had an erection during a massage.

Thus, even though the outcome was better for Watson than many had expected, the factual findings made by Judge Robinson could give the Commissioner everything he needs to justify a stronger suspension. Indeed, Judge Robinson affirmatively found by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., more likely than not) that Watson engaged in non-violent sexual assault, that his conduct endangered the safety and well-being of another person, and that his behavior undermined or put at risk the integrity of the NFL.

Those factual findings could ultimately fuel an outcome on appeal that Watson and the NFLPA won’t like, at all.

Jimmy and Dee Haslam say Deshaun Watson has been “remorseful,” Judge Robinson found he hasn’t
Posted by Mike Florio on August 1, 2022, 4:37 PM EDT

On Monday morning, Judge Sue Robinson issued her decision regarding Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson. On Monday afternoon, Browns ownership issued a statement that expressly respects her decision while implicitly disregarding a key piece of it.

Said owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam, “Throughout this process, Deshaun and his representation have abided by the newly created and agreed upon process for the NFLPA and the NFL to defer to the objective Judge Sue L. Robinson to comprehensively review all information and make a fair decision. We respect Judge Robinson’s decision, and at the same time, empathize and understand that there have been many individuals triggered throughout this process. We know Deshaun is remorseful that this situation has caused much heartache to many and he will continue the work needed to show who he is on an off the field, and we will continue to support him.”

They say they know Deshaun “is remorseful,” even though Judge Robinson — whose decision they supposedly respect — specifically found as an aggravating factor in determining the suspension of six games that he has a “lack of expressed remorse.”

So, the Haslam's can’t claim credibly Deshaun has expressed remorse and that they respect Judge Robinson’s decision, since that decision includes a finding that he has failed to express remorse. And if the Haslam's are referring to Watson expressing remorse regarding the impact of the allegations on others such as family members and the Browns organization, that’s the kind of hair splitting that has no place in a supposed embrace of and respect for the decision reached by Judge Robinson.

Speaking of credibility, Judge Robinson politely and tactfully concluded that Watson has none, at least not when it comes to his categorical denial of the accusations made against him. And that’s a pretty important point. In Judge Robinson’s assessment, he failed to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth on the most significant aspect of the entire situation. If the Haslam's truly respect and accept Judge Robinson’s decision, they’re respecting and accepting the fact that, in her professional assessment, Deshaun Watson’s testimony wasn’t believable.

She only "appeared to be present". What the hell does that mean, lol.

I'd say the NY Post said "appeared to be present" because the person that wrote the story was not on site to confirm and the story doesn't matter enough to bother confirming with others that were at the practice to verify she was there. "Appeared to be present" covers their bases.

There you go again. You see, I care what the findings of the case are. All that's been talked about on this very board since the hearing was over has been centered around people saying there wasn't hardly any evidence. That the NFL had a weak case. How the judge would view the evidence and if the NFL could even make their case. The findings by the judge is exactly what people have been waiting on. Now you are trying to blow all of that off with some weak ass smack talk. Then you talk about someone else being childish.

You seem to claim all that matters is the six game suspension. I on the other hand think what Judge Robinson found he did and did not do to these women is more important. I think her ruling based on the evidence presented to her in this case is more important than the length of the suspension. Obviously by your comments the game is more important to you than what actually happened to these women. To say I'm not surprised is an understatement.

Let's recap what the word "creepy" means to some people. Because if that's all you think this adds up to, we certainly have different ideas on what it means. Just the highlights for those easily distracted.

As to her actual findings in the report....


Just creepy huh? I mean it was only sexual assault and placing your penis on women who didn't want you to. No big deal, right? Damn! And it goes on....


So all this amounts to according to some people is that "he's creepy". She said he was guilty of sexual assault and that his conduct was predatory and people are trying to act like that doesn't perfectly describe what the term sexual predator means.

I mean that's just being creepy, right?

ESPN analyst calls out Browns for their absurd Deshaun Watson statement
Scott Rogust - Yesterday 6:32 PM

ESPN analyst Field Yates called out the Cleveland Browns for their statement saying that quarterback Deshaun Watson is remorseful following his recommended suspension.

On Monday, NFL disciplinary officer Sue L. Robinson reached a decision regarding a punishment for Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson, who was accused of sexual assault and misconduct by multiple women. Robinson concluded that Watson should receive a six-game suspension without pay but did not mention any fine.

Hours after the report dropped and Robinson's 16-page explanation was released, Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam released the following statement, where they say that Watson "is remorseful for that this situation has caused much heartache to many."

ESPN analyst Field Yates took issue with the statement, pointing out that Watson last spoke to the media on June 14, where the quarterback denied ever assaulting or harassing anyone. Yates asked "at what point has he expressed any public remorse?"

The decision by Robinson to recommend a six-game suspension has been ridiculed by some, especially with the wording that was used in her conclusion. The ruling says:

"Although this is the most significant punishment ever imposed on an NFL player for allegations of non-violent sexual conduct, Mr. Watson's pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the NFL."

Watson faced criminal charges filed by 10 women, but two grand juries chose against indicting him. He faced 24 civil lawsuits from massage therapists, and settled with 23 of them, three of which happened this past Sunday.

A New York Times report indicated that Watson had received massages from 66 different women in a 17-month period from 2019 until 2021. That report also features accounts from some of the therapists who detailed Watson's behavior during the sessions.


It would appear that the evidence has shown that Watson's conduct is the most "egregious" that has ever been reviewed by the NFL. Oh wait, is that just the opinion of Judge Sue Robinson and she's joining the mob mentality of public opinion without reviewing the evidence? Well, the Browns appear to have their franchise QB after a 6-game suspension. We should all be proud of the fact that the face of the franchise now is a non-remorseful predator with the dubious honor of exhibiting the most egregious conduct ever exhibited by an NFL player. Winning cures all ills and moms will be outfitting their purest children in Watson Christmas jerseys as an idol to look up to for winning games for the Cleveland Browns. How proud we fans must be that the face of the franchise can lie repeatedly during the hearings and escapes perjury charges because it wasn't a legal court of law. Well, 23 of the women have been paid to shut up, Watson won't have to testify, the Browns have their franchise QB, and bygones be bygones. Cleveland finally has something to be proud of now! GO BROWNS!

RIF Scott Rogust

Just what Did Jimmy and Dee say???

Watson "is remorseful for that this situation has caused much heartache to many. Watson himself said this when he talked to the media a while back. He is still sticking to his story that most of the things he is accused of didn't happen. Is he telling the truth???? Some say yes, and some say no, while others think the truth is somewhere in the middle. IMO as in most cases the truth is somewhere in the middle, so Watson never said he was sorry that he did these things... He still claims that he did nothing wrong, only that he is sorry for the situation.

No matter the wording she felt six games was appropriate. Time to talk football. Go Browns

Sure, some will want to quickly move on from a judgement that said DW acted like a predator and this is the most egregious case ever before the NFL.
I imagine the same people who claimed this was a witch hunt. The same who said the women only did it for money. And the same people who don't care what DW did as long as the Browns win.

For others the ruling and wording in the judgement verify we have a sexual Predator at QB. That some, many, most or all of the 26 women who filed against DW were truthful and victims. For many this solidifies the taint that Will tarnish any and all achievements during the DW years.

Reading these parts of the ruling makes me think the NFL may well decide to alter the suspension. If they do I don't think the NFLPA will have much of a case to protest.

There are really only a few guys who are blowing this out of proportion and spamming the thread w/their usual crap. They are the same guys who belittled other posters for suggesting that precedence might be considered. The same guys who attacked others when it was suggested that 4-6 games were a possibility. The same guys who are defended guys like Kraft, Snyder, and Kamara.

I think it would be best if we just ignore them and not feed their insatiable need to start trouble.

I also want to highlight some of the egregious board hypocrisy. Former QB of the Browns got vilified by any for consensual interaction in a cheesecake factory parking lot. His character was absolutely trashed.

Now we have a QB with all these accusations the same people have tried to find excuses for...or worse, accused the entire situation of being a witch hunt with no basis of merit. . . but has now been categorically judged to have acted in a sexually predatory manner, the worst ever before the NFL. A QB who still shows no remorse and takes no accountability for his actions. 66 different therapists, 26 accusations, and he maintains he did nothing wrong, a he's only sorry for that some are upset. Hell, he even lied to the judge about getting an erection during the sessions...... and THIS guy gets called a leader. Complete hypocrisy!

So, for months we have been waiting for evidence of wrongdoing or not. Watson still claims he did NOTHING wrong, yet the evidence presented to Judge Robinson presents a totally different story. For months posts on this site screamed for the evidence and being innocent until proven guilty.

Judge Robinson clearly states that Watson lied repeatedly at the hearing.

She clearly states that there is substantial evidence that Watson was a predator.

Judge Robinson clearly states that Watson's conduct is the most "egregious" that has ever been reviewed by the NFL.

Judge Robinson found that the NFL has carried its burden to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that Mr. Watson engaged in sexual assault (as defined by the NFL) against the four therapists identified in the Report.

Judge Robinson stated, I accept the fact that a work environment with sexualized conduct is not a safe environment, and I accept as credible the testimony of these therapists that they felt unsafe and suffered emotional distress as a result of their massage sessions with Mr. Watson.

The Haslam's say they know Deshaun “is remorseful,” even though Judge Robinson — whose decision they supposedly respect — specifically found as an aggravating factor in determining the suspension of six games that he has a “lack of expressed remorse.”

The truth is somewhere in the middle? You have to be kidding!

I find Sue Robinson to be a crushing disappointment.

Her conclusion and findings were all over the place. How do you label the acts both an assault and non-violent? The very definition of assault implies violence. And what does it mean "by the NFL's definition"? Was it an assault or not?

After her findings became public it was also clear the NFL's statement the night before wasn't a warning shot, it was a plea. Based on the way she wrote her conclusion she is basically inviting the NFL to appeal and use the appeal as a springboard to take her advice to change their policies so as to avoid further appeals. So I predict an appeal, a lenghty suspension, and an admission and a wink/thank you to Robinson that they need to tighten up their policies and clearly communicate with the players expected behavior and punishment. In other words, where I thought she would like to avoid an appeal thereby making a mockery of the process, I think she actually is welcoming an appeal by the NFL by the way she wrote the conclusion.

And this is because the NFLPA must have spent an inordinate amount of time during the hearings focusing on the precedent for punishment, and I think she felt compelled to include that as part of her judgment. In other words, the NFLPA's lawyers were way better than the NFL's.

What does this all mean? If I'm correct and there's an appeal, Watson won't play this year and may never play again. I think the NFLPA will attempt to go scorched earth with the biased and unequal punishment for owners and players, but I don't think it will ultimately help Watson play for the Browns.

What a mess. I will be shocked if the NFL doesn't appeal and change the punishment. If they come out with a statement saying they won't appeal that means the NFLPA has enough to make their life a living hell for a long time and they would be choosing the lesser of the two evils at that point...make it appear you don't support women or let a bunch more skeletons out of the closet. That's the choice the NFL is currently weighing.