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Thanks for the informative tweets.

One thing I didn't see mentioned was the statement "It is undisputed that Mr. Watson's conduct does not fall under the category of violent conduct that would require the minimum 6-game suspension."

I feel like with the word "undisputed" thrown in there, this would be a binding "fact" that would prevent the NFL from making an unprecedented suspension under appeal. Most I could see them bumping it up with this "fact" is another 2-4 games (for 4 instances of conduct that normally have a suspension of 2-3 games).


For those struggling with the "non-violent assualt." Robinson is basically likening his conduct to someone making unwanted sexual advances while also making non-violent contact with the other party - so more than just words. Think "copping a feel" - that's probably the best way to explain it. The sexual assault moniker was only used because of the definition the league gave after-the-fact.

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Good read. I see he has dropped the entire, "My source says they have no case" BS. naughtydevil


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well watson's last happy ending came from a retired federal judge.


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Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by PETE314
Oh....if there is an appeal by the NFL....Watson will at VERY LEAST start the season...because an appeal will start the federal Lawsuit process and his suspension won't go into effect until that process has completed...heck that could take a year or more...

May not have the effect some of you think it will..

CBA:
Section 5. Commissioner Exempt: Players who are placed by the Commissioner on the
Exempt list prior to the determination of discipline and any appeal therefrom under the
Personal Conduct Policy will be paid while on the Commissioner Exempt list and credited
for the regular and post-season games missed against any suspension ultimately imposed.
Notwithstanding any other provision in this Agreement, if such a suspension is ultimately
imposed, the player must promptly return and shall have no further right to any salary for
the games for which he was paid while on the Commissioner Exempt list that were cred-
ited to the suspension (i.e., for a number of games no greater than the length of the
suspension).



In other words, if the NFL appeals, then the NFLPA sues, Watson could essentially be put on the Commissioners Exempt List for as long as it takes to go through the court system. THEN, once it is resolved, the game time will be time served, however, if they uphold Judge Robinson's 6 games, he will be deducted the 6 game checks and keep the remaining game checks for the games he missed, but not suspended for.

So, in essence, if the trial takes until next off-season, whether the NFLPA wins or loses, the Browns organization loses him for a year. The only real outcome would be whether Deshaun Watson loses more than 6 game checks.

They could ask for an expedited trial, but the court would be in no obligation to give it to them. If Judge Robinson's timeline from hearing to final report took 6 weeks, it is pretty likely the court process would take a minimum of 6 months. It will take at the very least a full month, just to set the court date, which will most likely be 4 months out, which will run into the holidays.

If the NFL appeals, Watson will not play in 2022 most likely.

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He apparently picked up some new BS, though. "She did it wrong".


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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This is from the end of March, but it still seems relevant.


Quote
The NFL will not use the Commissioner Exempt List for Deshaun Watson. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said Tuesday that because two grand juries chose not to criminally charge Watson that the Browns quarterback is subject only to a suspension under the Personal Conduct Policy.

“The civil cases were in play over the last year,” Goodell said. “The only thing that’s changed is the criminal element has been at least resolved, and that was an important element in the context of the Commissioner Exempt List as discussed with the Players Association. So that was an important (decision as it relates to the Commissioner Exempt List).


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...eshaun-watson-but-suspension-is-in-play/

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
He apparently picked up some new BS, though. "She did it wrong".

Who is "he" and who is "she?" Did what wrong?

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Try reading the entire thread. Oh that's right, you can't see this. So instead you ask someone to explain it to you. notallthere


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Watson could be in serious trouble with an NFL appeal after the heavy punishment against the owner of the Dolphins.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...or-tampering-with-sean-payton-tom-brady/


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Hey at least many of you have O.J on your side. I mean if anyone understands how to treat a woman it's O.J. Am I right?



Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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not likely.
Anything is possible, especially with Goodell, but it's not likely.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by steve0255
Watson could be in serious trouble with an NFL appeal after the heavy punishment against the owner of the Dolphins.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...or-tampering-with-sean-payton-tom-brady/

Heavy?


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Hey at least many of you have O.J on your side. I mean if anyone understands how to treat a woman it's O.J. Am I right?


lol man when this dude comments its so cringe and hilarious. remember when he wrote that book "if i did it"? this man refuses to lay low.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
This is from the end of March, but it still seems relevant.


Quote
The NFL will not use the Commissioner Exempt List for Deshaun Watson. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said Tuesday that because two grand juries chose not to criminally charge Watson that the Browns quarterback is subject only to a suspension under the Personal Conduct Policy.

“The civil cases were in play over the last year,” Goodell said. “The only thing that’s changed is the criminal element has been at least resolved, and that was an important element in the context of the Commissioner Exempt List as discussed with the Players Association. So that was an important (decision as it relates to the Commissioner Exempt List).


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...eshaun-watson-but-suspension-is-in-play/


This was in regards to the Civil Cases, not a suspension. He stated they will not put him on the exempt list waiting for the civil cases to be resolved.

These are two separate issues.. 1) Exempt list for outside civil cases as opposed to criminal cases and 2) imposed suspension, delayed by appeal.

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If you say so.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
If you say so.

I don't say so, the CBA says so... Don't shoot the messenger

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Originally Posted by Swish
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Hey at least many of you have O.J on your side. I mean if anyone understands how to treat a woman it's O.J. Am I right?


lol man when this dude comments its so cringe and hilarious. remember when he wrote that book "if i did it"? this man refuses to lay low.

What's more is when you realize that if he had never killed his wife, the Kardashians and that entire circus would be irrelevant and unknown.
The butterfly effect is real.


Oh, what could have been....


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Originally Posted by bonefish
It would be easy then to say verbal assault.

That was not mentioned.

Clem posted something before that now after reading Robinson's findings rings clear.

"Being a fan is harder work than it used to be... and it's measurably less rewarding."

I know when games begin I will be there watching. I will still want to win.

But like many things the shine is fading some.

Last year the Braves won the World Series. It really caught me by surprise. And I loved every minute of the playoffs.

I really don't know what I will feel this coming football season.

You were asking about how the word could be used and be non violent. I gave you one.


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I know what the CBA says and I read the part you quoted. I don't think you accurately interpreted Goodell's own words when he addressed whether or not he would put Watson on the exempt list and the WHY behind it. Try reading it again and note the placement of the Civil Court vs Criminal Court. If you still think it's likely that he will put Watson on the Exempt list.........so be it.

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In the report Robinson said that sexual assault was defined by the NFL at that point (and she quoted it... I kinda feel like that was a subtle smacktalk to the NFL), and that she was bound to go by their definition.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I know what the CBA says and I read the part you quoted. I don't think you accurately interpreted Goodell's own words when he addressed whether or not he would put Watson on the exempt list and the WHY behind it. Try reading it again and note the placement of the Civil Court vs Criminal Court. If you still think it's likely that he will put Watson on the Exempt list.........so be it.

The point was, the NFL was considering the exempt list for the criminal case, once that was resolved the information from YOUR post was put out that they would not be placing him on the exempt list for the remaining civil cases to be resolved. It didn't have anything to do with him being suspended and a possible appeal and subsequent lawsuit to follow (which is where the exempt list has a secondary usage stated in the CBA). It would not make sense for there to be an appeal, a lawsuit based on the appeal results and him not being placed on the commissioners exempt list while that lawsuit is resolved. The NFL doesn't want Watson on the field immediately. This is an easy way to resolve him not being on the field to start the season, why wouldn't they follow a CBA resolution to that problem?

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
In the report Robinson said that sexual assault was defined by the NFL at that point (and she quoted it... I kinda feel like that was a subtle smacktalk to the NFL), and that she was bound to go by their definition.

Oh it certainly was a knock on the NFL. Her reports is worded such that Watson got a 6 game suspension because the NFL's incompetency prevented her from giving him anything more. While it does deal with Watson it puts the NFL is a poor light.

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And it was defined as " On behalf of the NFL, one of its investigators defined the term at the evidentiary hearing as the “unwanted sexual contact with another person.”

Actual physical unwanted sexual contact.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Okay.......I'm guessing that you aren't going to answer my questions. Here is what transpired.


Quote
Originally Posted by oobernoober
He apparently picked up some new BS, though. "She did it wrong".

--------

Who is "he" and who is "she?" Did what wrong?

You were replying to Pit, so I can only imagine he made yet another invalid claim.

I am also guessing the "he" is me. And the "she" is Judge Robinson.

So, I will try and be real clear................I have no problem w/Judge Robinson's ruling. Before our recent conversation, I said I was good w/her decision. I said I thought it was too long of a suspension, but that I accepted her ruling. I can provide the exact quote if you like.

Nothing has changed my opinion regarding her ruling. I accept it and think she is more fair than Goodell would have been.

The only thing I asked you to keep in mind is that she was hearing a case involving the Personal Conduct Policy and it wasn't an actual case in a court of law. Thus, we should be cautious about assigning legal definitions to a situation that wasn't an actual case in a court of law. It had nothing to do w/the laws of the land. It was about whether or not Watson violated the terms of the Personal Conduct Policy. She ruled that he did and I completely accept her decision. I think she did a great job of chastising both Watson and the NFL. All I'm saying is that her decision is not proof that Watson actually committed a crime that has been established by our legal system. I'm not sure what is so confusing about my stance?

Disclaimer: If you were not talking about me and Judge Robinson, then please accept my sincerest apologies.

One more thing.........just because Pit makes a claim.....it does not mean it's a truthful claim.

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Okay. I don't think they will put him on the Exempt list due to his language and how this went down. I could be wrong. We'll see.

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Considering the penalty against the Dolphins owner now, I would be shocked if the NFL doesn't appeal the Watson suspension. I suspect the NFL will back it up a bit to an 11-game suspension. However, if the NFLPA sues in Federal Court, the NFL will put Watson on the exempt list and the suspension will be a year or longer waiting for a court date. That will open up the bag of additional suits against Watson, any civil court proceedings, criminal charges and of course additional NFL action. All of this providing Watson can keep himself out of additional trouble while waiting on the courts.

Just as Watson settled 3 civil cases the day before the current ruling in an attempt to sway Judge Robinson's ruling, the NFL has taken a page from the Watson team's legal book and invoked a large penalty on an owner before they appeal Watson's ruling.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Okay.......I'm guessing that you aren't going to answer my questions. Here is what transpired.


Quote
Originally Posted by oobernoober
He apparently picked up some new BS, though. "She did it wrong".

--------

Who is "he" and who is "she?" Did what wrong?

You were replying to Pit, so I can only imagine he made yet another invalid claim.

I am also guessing the "he" is me. And the "she" is Judge Robinson.

So, I will try and be real clear................I have no problem w/Judge Robinson's ruling. Before our recent conversation, I said I was good w/her decision. I said I thought it was too long of a suspension, but that I accepted her ruling. I can provide the exact quote if you like.

Quote
One more thing.........just because Pit makes a claim.....it does not mean it's a truthful claim.

And there it is folks. He has no idea what was posted because he has me on ignore. Jumps to conclusions because he refuses to see it and even though he has no idea what was posted, still can't keep my name out of his mouth. Since oober refused to explain it to him he exploded. Nothing new here. He blocks people, asks people no to quote them because he doesn't want to see their posts then asks people to tell them what I posted. Brings a whole new meaning to Ozzy's song Crazy Train. Because as of now all he is doing is taking A Shot In The Dark. Sad, just sad.


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Pit was commenting on Florio. You having him on ignore but still needing to respond to replies to him isn't my problem.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Pit was commenting on Florio. You having him on ignore but still needing to respond to replies to him isn't my problem.

Besides that, click to view the post instead of asking numerous questions about it while repeatedly telling us all you have him on ignore. Obviously that doesn't matter because you two still argue all day long.


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Yeah, I should just sit here and ignore that he keeps calling me a troll and making comments about me when he doesn't even know what I'm posting. rolleyesdevil


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Just a couple thoughts I had while reading through the full report again....

Robinson really didn't seem to be privy to any groundbreaking evidence than what has been made public. Maybe she was cognizant of what was/wasn't public and took efforts to not disclose anything the public didn't already know, but the specific points she brings up are all things that were pretty generic pieces of information and were known.

It also seems, to me, that the NFL only presented the 4 strongest cases. Robinson specifically states that none of the 4 therapists chose to work with Watson again, even though we know many did. She also mentioned that 3 of those 4 were licensed even though she also states that Watson's MO was to pursue massage therapists with light and/or questionable credentials.


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Originally Posted by steve0255
Considering the penalty against the Dolphins owner now, I would be shocked if the NFL doesn't appeal the Watson suspension. I suspect the NFL will back it up a bit to an 11-game suspension. However, if the NFLPA sues in Federal Court, the NFL will put Watson on the exempt list and the suspension will be a year or longer waiting for a court date. That will open up the bag of additional suits against Watson, any civil court proceedings, criminal charges and of course additional NFL action. All of this providing Watson can keep himself out of additional trouble while waiting on the courts.

Just as Watson settled 3 civil cases the day before the current ruling in an attempt to sway Judge Robinson's ruling, the NFL has taken a page from the Watson team's legal book and invoked a large penalty on an owner before they appeal Watson's ruling.

I'd be shocked to see the NFL try this, and I think the Dolphins thing is more about the NFL saving face after Robinson's report than anything to do with Watson, at all.
Furthermore, if they DID try that move, it would simply underline the shots Robinson took at the NFL regarding how they don't do things until after-the-fact. Robinson was very clear that her ruling is based on precedent; them doing something AFTER her ruling does not create grounds or a basis for altering that ruling.


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JMHO, Curt Warner stated he thinks NFL will come down harder and should--THEY, the NFL, want to set a new precedent- what they- NFL- did to Ross seems to set a new bar for owners. Draft picks and $500,000 isn't a light penalty in my book. I'm concerned DW is headed for a much longer penalty. JMHO, losing last year also should factor in....but it probably won't. Go Browns!!!


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Originally Posted by hitt
JMHO, Curt Warner stated he thinks NFL will come down harder and should--THEY, the NFL, want to set a new precedent- what they- NFL- did to Ross seems to set a new bar for owners. Draft picks and $500,000 isn't a light penalty in my book. I'm concerned DW is headed for a much longer penalty. JMHO, losing last year also should factor in....but it probably won't. Go Browns!!!

They may want to set a new precedent and the should. It should be a more comprehensive Policy that the Judge can use so the NFL doesn't have to do it. Watson deserves only 6 games, not more, because the NFL isn't clear on it's punishments and can't be arbitrary. Well, can't be arbitrary going forward any longer at least.

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j/c instead of responding to individual posts.

What Robinson is doing is simple if you read the full report. She doesn't come out and say it verbatim but it's littered throughout her commentary.

Quote
As it is the NFL’s prerogative to impose the Policy on its players, I am bound to
accept the NFL’s definition
of sexual assault.

Quote
I, therefore, find that the NFL has carried its burden to prove, by a preponderance of the
evidence, that Mr. Watson engaged in sexual assault (as defined by the NFL) against the four
therapists identified in the Report.29 Mr. Watson violated the Policy in this regard.

Quote
Once again, there is no definition provided in the Policy or CBA for the prohibited
conduct of posing a “genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person.” Neither
has the NFL provided a definition
in connection with this matter.

Quote
According to the NFL, “[t]he matters
that can affect such integrity and public confidence [in the game of professional football] evolve
and change over time depending on developments within and external to the League
, and the
parties to the CBAs have agreed not to operate with a static or frozen definition of conduct
detrimental.”

Quote
Although I have found Mr. Watson to have violated the Policy, I have done so using the NFL’s
post-hoc definitions of the prohibited conduct at issue.
Defining prohibited conduct plays a
critical role in the rule of law, enabling people to predict the consequences of their behavior. It is
inherently unfair to identify conduct as prohibited only after the conduct has been committed,
just as it is inherently unjust to change the penalties for such conduct after the fact. As I’ve
noted above, the NFL is a private organization and can operate as it deems fit, but the post-hoc
determination of what constitutes the prohibited conduct here cannot genuinely satisfy the
“fairness” prong
of the standard of review or justify the imposition of the unprecedented sanction
requested by the NFL.


What she's really saying:

"Your whole process for discipline is mad whack, and hiring me to be the "arbiter of justice" is not going to mean I willingly fall victim to this chicanery. On one hand, you don't allow me to define any of your charges; sexual misconduct, conduct detrimental, etc; as if I can't think and judge for myself... On the other, you're asking me to hand down unprecedented punishment for something that is not defined and has no structure for punishment in your CBA. Your process and language for enforcement is convoluted; if you want me to rule on it, I'll stay within the confines of precedence... and of your "contract"... that's what it's there for."


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Sue did a perfect job. Pretending to care about the victims just enough so the NFL wouldn't lose money, but not enough to ruin the Browns season.

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Debate the Deshaun Watson suspension, but the report’s finding is clear: He did it -- Doug Lesmerises

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The decision Monday said Deshaun Watson did it.

The punishment, a six-game suspension now, may be longer if the NFL appeals, certainly matters. But for the first time, an investigation was conducted, both sides had their say, and a neutral arbiter looked at the evidence and declared that Watson committed the sexual misconduct of which he has been accused. And that matters, too.

Read the 16-page report from Sue L. Robinson, and it doesn’t read like a six-game suspension report. It reads like a report for a 12-game or season-long suspension that is pulled back in the end by precedent, but not by evidence.

Maybe you don’t trust the NFL and you don’t put any weight in this decision. But as the criminal justice system struggled with the Watson case, it leaned on what the NFL would say.

The district attorney in Houston, where a grand jury declined to indict Watson, said in June on a podcast, ”I think to determine whether justice was done in this case you’re going to have to wait and see how it all comes out on the civil side of things and then through the NFL on the administrative side of things. And then people will determine whether that’s justice.”

The lack of indictment then wasn’t exoneration, it was an indication of the difficulties in prosecuting sexual crimes with only two people -- the accused and the accuser -- present in the room. But, as we know, Watson has multiple accusers.

The NFL decision won’t take away Watson’s freedom. But it should undercut his outright denials of misconduct. It should undermine the plausible deniability that the Browns bathed in when trading for Watson in March, when the news at the time was the lack of grand jury indictment.

In March, it was presented as “maybe he did it, maybe he didn’t.” In August, this report says he did it.

“I never did the things that these people are alleging,” Watson said in March.

In August, Robinson said he did.

The word the Browns used repeatedly in the news conference after the Watson acquisition was “comfortable.”

“The bottom line is we got very comfortable with Deshaun Watson the person,” owner Jimmy Haslam said.

“We feel confident in Deshaun the person. We have a lot of faith in him,” general manager Andrew Berry said.

That comfort, confidence and faith was placed in a quarterback who this report says committed sexual assault.

“I think we got comfortable in the legal process. If you follow the legal process, it is part of it. We have to trust in the legal process,” said owner Dee Haslam.

That legal process didn’t indict. But this process -- not legal, but thorough, with each side having its say -- found that:

1. “The NFL has carried its burden to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that Mr. Watson engaged in sexual assault (as defined by the NFL) against the four therapists identified in the Report.”

2. “The NFL has carried its burden to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that Mr. Watson’s conduct posed a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person.”

3. “It is apparent that Mr. Watson acted with a reckless disregard for the consequences of his actions by exposing himself (and the NFL) to such public scrutiny and speculation. Mr. Watson’s predatory conduct cast ‘a negative light on the League and its players,’ sufficient proof that he violated this provision of the Policy.”

The punishment got the primary attention after the ruling. That was action. Something was taken from Watson for what he did. Certainly, six games may not be enough. But that’s a debate over sentencing.

There was no doubt on the verdict, as determined by a process agreed to by an employer and the union representing the employees.

He did it.

The criminal justice system didn’t say that. But it didn’t say innocent, either. In civil court, Watson said in March his plan wasn’t to settle the 24 civil suits against him.

“That is not my intent. My intent is to continue to clear my name as much as much as possible, and that is what I am focused on,” Watson said.

He has since settled 23 of the 24. That isn’t an admission of guilt either. We don’t know the amounts or the circumstances. Maybe Watson just wanted the suits to be over, and was willing to do what it took to make that happen.

So neither the criminal nor civil courts were clear. This decision was clear.

We often reference the court of public opinion. It’s there where this decision should reverberate like a thunder clap. We understand that there is no criminal prosecution, and we understand the civil suits are private. The debates over those decisions, and the debates over suspension length, will continue, with frustration, anger and disappointment likely on both sides.

But when it comes to believing Watson, when it comes to rationalizing the Browns’ choice to bring Watson here, when it comes to believing the women who said Watson sexually assaulted them, we have what we didn’t before the report.

We have a decision. And the decision said he did it.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...0cTkD_tad8498RoKrRWQ7MMcMAZcPbRTfCOSuYk8

Sadly he writes in the Cleveland market. His comments will not be treated kindly. As we see more and more in today's society, honesty is often punished and not appreciated as it was in days past. Good luck going forward Doug Lesmerises. I think you're going to need it.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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You do know what their definition of sexual assault was in this case, right? Or don't you?

Quote
“unwanted sexual contact with another person.”

How much further than that do you feel it needs to go to be called sexual assault? Are you trying to say that purposefully placing your penis on a woman when it is unwanted isn't enough for you?

All she is doing is referring you to what her rulings are based on. Each of those are spelled out clearly in the decision. This wasn't a state or local court. So what the rules/laws and their definitions had to come from somewhere and as a judge or attorney you have to show where and what you are basing your ruling on. That's exactly what she did here.

Per example, in an actual criminal trial the judge would say something similar to this, "based on Ohio statute 3.145 the court rules...."


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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