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Originally Posted by FATE
Starting to feel the reality set in.

Yes, "toast".

Best case scenario is to win a suit against the NFL in the hopes of a reduction to 8-10 games. Even 12 would let Watson see some action and shake off the rust... If not he will have gone 32 months without live action by next September.

I wouldn't petition to be eligible to play -- start serving the suspension now.

I have been thinking about this because there is no way that the appeal will fail and he is going to get nailed. I kinda agree w/you just to get it over with and not have the suspension carry over to next year. On the other hand, there are times when you have to make a stand and not cave in to "the man." Furthermore, I would love to see the NFL's dirty deeds uncovered.

I don't think the NFL will agree to this, but what a settlement? Here is what I would offer if I was Watson's camp. Leave the suspension at 6 games, but impose a fine. A large fine. Let's say $10 million. But here is the cool part. Instead of the money going to the NFL..........the money goes to to Women's Rape Crisis Centers in various locations. Watson also offers to work in community service projects that champion the cause of women. Perhaps he sets up trust funds that provide scholarships for young girls who have been abused?

Are we so blood-thirsty that we demand punishment w/out any positive actions or do we want to invoke change and help those who have faced abuse?

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j/c:

Deshaun Watson nixed settlement offer from NFL that would have suspended him for less than a year, per report
The Browns QB could have ended all his suspension drama if he would have accepted this offer from the NFL

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ded-him-for-less-than-a-year-per-report/

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Deshaun Watson accuser says she received 'multiple death threats' following suspension

https://news.yahoo.com/deshaun-watson-accuser-says-she-215547973.html

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Not sure what good accepting a 12 game suspension would have done. Our season would have been lost. They were hoping that the Judge would give credence to precedence, which is what I said months ago.......and she did. The NFL did not care what a former Federal Judge said on her very first case and have dismissed her and hired a lackey to appease public opinion. It's been a witch hunt from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by steve0255
No person should have any issue with abusing a woman is crossing the line and is not acceptable. Abusing 24-30 women is a serial abuser and shouldn't need any explanation or guidelines. To your point, the state you are in becomes your responsibility to know the law. The state has no obligation to inform you of the laws in that state. If you get pulled over in Ohio where the drunk driving law is .08 but you're from Indiana where that same law is .10, do you get a lighter sentence because you didn't know the law was different in Ohio? If you drink 2 bottles of vodka and get behind the wheel, you already know that you have violated the laws of every state. There's no way in hell that anyone can present a valid argument that Watson was unaware that abusing 24-30 women was a major violation of the PCP and was subjecting himself to major penalties no matter where he committed the act.


And yet the NFL couldn't define what sexual assault was, prior to the investigation. Not even in general terms. Not in specific terms. It took an investigator to define it for them, which is carries its own issue of integrity.

If the law says DUI is .08 and you blow .07 do you think it is ok for the cop to decide that's close enough i.e. change the rule during or after the investigation?

The NFL's system is broken. Most corporations have the wherewithal to actually define what is unacceptable according to their conduct policies, and it doesn't involve "we'll know it when we see it". and it leads to caprious discipline and abuse from the commish. Even when they seat someone to make it look like they are trying to play fair they screw that pooch as well.

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Wow, I'm so damn glad we got this quarterback and all his controversy. Dude still might not play a down this year. That'd be 2 years of not playing.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by FATE
Starting to feel the reality set in.

Yes, "toast".

Best case scenario is to win a suit against the NFL in the hopes of a reduction to 8-10 games. Even 12 would let Watson see some action and shake off the rust... If not he will have gone 32 months without live action by next September.

I wouldn't petition to be eligible to play -- start serving the suspension now.

I have been thinking about this because there is no way that the appeal will fail and he is going to get nailed. I kinda agree w/you just to get it over with and not have the suspension carry over to next year. On the other hand, there are times when you have to make a stand and not cave in to "the man." Furthermore, I would love to see the NFL's dirty deeds uncovered.

I don't think the NFL will agree to this, but what a settlement? Here is what I would offer if I was Watson's camp. Leave the suspension at 6 games, but impose a fine. A large fine. Let's say $10 million. But here is the cool part. Instead of the money going to the NFL..........the money goes to to Women's Rape Crisis Centers in various locations. Watson also offers to work in community service projects that champion the cause of women. Perhaps he sets up trust funds that provide scholarships for young girls who have been abused?

Are we so blood-thirsty that we demand punishment w/out any positive actions or do we want to invoke change and help those who have faced abuse?

It's not really "caving". You still sue, you just accept the fact that a suspension is forthcoming. Say you're going to start serving your six week suspension, carefully craft a remorse statement for the pain and anguish you've caused everybody, say that you're hopeful a court will find in favor of the original suspension, let the NFLPA do the dirty work.

As for the rest; the league won't allow (let alone be a part of) some custom-crafted punishment protocol. They'll move forward with some of their own "repentance" programs this upcoming season... and throw a stink-eye at Deshaun and the Browns while doing it. You can book that.


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I prefaced my comments by saying that I didn't think the NFL would agree to it...or something like that. But, I feel it's a much better idea than what they are doing. Don't you?

Btw..........I agree w/this part:


Quote
It's not really "caving". You still sue, you just accept the fact that a suspension is forthcoming. Say you're going to start serving your six week suspension, carefully craft a remorse statement for the pain and anguish you've caused everybody, say that you're hopeful a court will find in favor of the original suspension, let the NFLPA do the dirty work.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
It's been a witch hunt from the beginning.

100.

The media is so comical. The outrage is hilarious. And not a fist in the air about Snyder and the WFT.

The mob mentality is insane. And scary.

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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Wow, I'm so damn glad we got this quarterback and all his controversy. Dude still might not a down this year. That'd be 2 years of not playing.
The worse part is, for from witnessing the talking heads of the national media, from the instant reaction to the Mayfield Pick on the day he was drafted, to the Colin cowdonkey's of the world who have tried to talk Mayfield off the Browns for the past 4 years,
the thing is,
they have finally gotten Mayfield off the Browns, and the Browns are back to being a 14 loss team every year.
That is what's on the horizon and we're just supposed to deal with it. flamingmad

Only encouraged, the Nat'l media will next target Myles and Clowney to bring a storm of raining dirt onto the world of browns' fans.
Remember OBJ, that was just a couple months ago. It never ends.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Sure it's a good idea, file it right up there with the rest of the league's good ideas... oh, wait. wink

I'd co-sign on that in a heartbeat, I just know I'd actually see that pig flying before it would ever happen. To be real, and step in Deshaun's shoes, he's already burnt 6-10M on legal and payouts... doubt he would cough up 10M to avoid something he'll get paid for anyway. Also not really sure it's feasible to drop the guard "completely" before all possible plaintiffs in civil trials have been remedied.

Good thought though.

Last edited by FATE; 08/04/22 09:38 PM.

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I still maintain I think it would be badass if Watson retired. Or go play in the CFL.

I would support that 100%. Instead of being subject to a sham disciplinary process, don't let them subject you to it. Remove yourself from the equation.

He should have plenty of money from his first and part of his second contract. Screw em.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I still maintain I think it would be badass if Watson retired. Or go play in the CFL.

I would support that 100%. Instead of being subject to a sham disciplinary process, don't let them subject you to it. Remove yourself from the equation.

He should have plenty of money from his first and part of his second contract. Screw em.

Rish...this would be nuts to do. After walking away and the 24hr cooling off period elapsed, you'd be thinking, what the hell did I just do?!?

If Watson is suspended for a full year and no fine is imposed, he will have made $44.965M this year and have a one year paid vacation. Sign me up!

He's "only" made $51M from his time with Texans and after considering taxes, agent fees, living expense, settlement and attorney fees, team trip to the Bahamas, jewelry, cars, charitable doations etc....he'll want the money.

I'd play the games the NFL wants to play for $230M guaranteed. America loves a redemption story!

After Berry restructures his contract again in 2023 and pays another ~$40M in signing bonus money and reduces his base salary, I'd say suspend me again for 2023 and give me that ~$40M paid vacation. wink tongue

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Originally Posted by 3rd_and_20
j/c:

Deshaun Watson nixed settlement offer from NFL that would have suspended him for less than a year, per report
The Browns QB could have ended all his suspension drama if he would have accepted this offer from the NFL

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ded-him-for-less-than-a-year-per-report/

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Deshaun Watson accuser says she received 'multiple death threats' following suspension

https://news.yahoo.com/deshaun-watson-accuser-says-she-215547973.html


3rd and 20...I posted about that offer to settle by the NFL over 8 hours ago.

The article I posted link said the following...

Quote
Robinson's decision found that a six-game suspension was appropriate given the precedent set by the league in similar cases in the past. Critics said it was too lenient, given that Watson was accused of sexual assault or harassment by upward of 30 women, with the number of alleged victims virtually unprecedented for an NFL player.

Among those dissenters, apparently, was the NFL itself.

Prior to Robinson's ruling, the league had reportedly offered to settle Watson's case with a suspension of 12 games and a fine of nearly $10 million, but Watson's camp turned down the offer.

The NFL offered to settle the case for a 12 games suspension and a fine in the neighborhood of $8-$10 mill...and Watson turned it down. That is when the NFL appointed Peter C. Harvey to handle the appeal.





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Woo is me about Watson. He's being so mistreated - he's so misunderstood. That damn NFL is racist and coming after the guy simply because he's black. The mob mentality is insane and scary. The media is acting like a lynch mob. The sham disciplinary process.

These are just a few comments read here about the plight of Watson.

You know what you don't see? You don't see any remorse from Watson, the Browns, or his supporters in this forum for the now 53 settled civil claimant's generated by Watson's predatory actions. Think about that for a moment - 53 freaking civil suits directly associated with his mistreatment of women with one still unsettled. Mistreatment so egregious that if you added up all the women in the last 10-years of the NFL that had alleged claims of misconduct against women by players in the NFL, you still wouldn't have as many complaints as Watson has had that's associated with his mistreatment of women. To think that there are people on this forum that believe that the paltry 6-game suspension being appealed is excessive. Really?

If there has ever been a single player that earned the most severe penalty the NFL has ever handed out it would be Watson. 53 civil suits directly tied to his egregious treatment of women, and we have people defending his actions here while campaigning for anywhere from zero to less than a six-game suspension. I'm a Browns fan but a fan that is humiliated that this guy could eventually be playing for Cleveland. Funny how many people will check their morals at the gate just to win a football game.


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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I still maintain I think it would be badass if Watson retired. Or go play in the CFL.

I would support that 100%. Instead of being subject to a sham disciplinary process, don't let them subject you to it. Remove yourself from the equation.

He should have plenty of money from his first and part of his second contract. Screw em.

You can’t be serious. He is a victim? Have you read the Robinson report? She convicted him, not exonerated him.

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Originally Posted by 3rd_and_20
j/c:

Deshaun Watson accuser says she received 'multiple death threats' following suspension

https://news.yahoo.com/deshaun-watson-accuser-says-she-215547973.html


Come on people have some class, it's a game. What kind of mind does that take?


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Not sure what good accepting a 12 game suspension would have done. Our season would have been lost. They were hoping that the Judge would give credence to precedence, which is what I said months ago.......and she did. The NFL did not care what a former Federal Judge said on her very first case and have dismissed her and hired a lackey to appease public opinion. It's been a witch hunt from the beginning.


Careful tsktsk, I recently took a ban for making political comments in PFF. wink


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The judge knew what she was doing when she called him guilty of sexual assault and a predator. There was no way all the millionaires and billionaires involved could let that stand. And Goodell is a puppet, OR is he? Is this a race thing? Gander - Goose, Goose - gander! Who knows...? {*Sounds of wrist slitting and sky falling} Well, they should have known. They did know, they didn't care. It was all rigged. yada yada yada


^ This is what this thread now sounds like. But nobody is saying, this is on Watson and a greedy owner/FO. Houston fleeced us. When and if he can play again, what are the odds he will still be anything like the DW you thought you were getting? The NFL wants us to lose. Oh, and let's not forget a fanbase that practically ran Baker out on a rail. Can we talk about any of that leading to this?


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Originally Posted by steve0255
Woo is me about Watson. He's being so mistreated - he's so misunderstood. That damn NFL is racist and coming after the guy simply because he's black. The mob mentality is insane and scary. The media is acting like a lynch mob. The sham disciplinary process.

These are just a few comments read here about the plight of Watson.

You know what you don't see? You don't see any remorse from Watson, the Browns, or his supporters in this forum for the now 53 settled civil claimant's generated by Watson's predatory actions. Think about that for a moment - 53 freaking civil suits directly associated with his mistreatment of women with one still unsettled. Mistreatment so egregious that if you added up all the women in the last 10-years of the NFL that had alleged claims of misconduct against women by players in the NFL, you still wouldn't have as many complaints as Watson has had that's associated with his mistreatment of women. To think that there are people on this forum that believe that the paltry 6-game suspension being appealed is excessive. Really?

If there has ever been a single player that earned the most severe penalty the NFL has ever handed out it would be Watson. 53 civil suits directly tied to his egregious treatment of women, and we have people defending his actions here while campaigning for anywhere from zero to less than a six-game suspension. I'm a Browns fan but a fan that is humiliated that this guy could eventually be playing for Cleveland. Funny how many people will check their morals at the gate just to win a football game.

How can any person with common sense overlook these circumstances?

We also have Judge Robinson’s 15 page documents where we can read her conclusion why she thinks that Watson is a lier who show no signs of remorse. When a former judge with so many years of experience witnessing all sorts of different human characters gives that assessment then every sane person should pay attention.

I come back to this once again.

This is the Browns new front face that Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski is “comfortable” with What do such a statement tells us about the working environment inside the Browns leadership?

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i still think, at this juncture, the best case for us:

Settlement of 10 games or so, pay a large fine (it’s basically Haslam’s money, not his) that will go to women’s organizations, and agree to therapy/rehab program.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
i still think, at this juncture, the best case for us:

Settlement of 10 games or so, pay a large fine (it’s basically Haslam’s money, not his) that will go to women’s organizations, and agree to therapy/rehab program.

D4...If the NFL's last number was a 12 game suspension, translating it in terms of ...'realistic negotiating'...it means Watson's lawyers can likely get it down to 10 games.

The money, $10.5 billion is not a real factor and should be ignored...Watson did just sign a contract for 1/4 of a billion dollars.

So the negotiations can be broken down to the difference between the 12 games that is said to be the NFL's number and 10 games that is likely the bottom number of games the NFL might accept.

JMO, but Watson and his lawyers should be able to get this done and if they can't, Watson should fire them.




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We also have Judge Robinson’s 15 page documents where we can read her conclusion why she thinks that Watson is a lier who show no signs of remorse. When a former judge with so many years of experience witnessing all sorts of different human characters gives that assessment then every sane person should pay attention.

Oh sure pay attention to her if your sane, and at the same time ignore her decision. notallthere notallthere notallthere


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Originally Posted by GMdawg
Quote
We also have Judge Robinson’s 15 page documents where we can read her conclusion why she thinks that Watson is a lier who show no signs of remorse. When a former judge with so many years of experience witnessing all sorts of different human characters gives that assessment then every sane person should pay attention.

Oh sure pay attention to her if your sane, and at the same time ignore her decision. notallthere notallthere notallthere

The hypocrisy is hilarious.


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j/c

It occurred to me this morning reading thru posts - there is A LOT going on here. Hell, you probably knew that and it's me that's a bit slow? But there's almost 4 distinct sub topics regarding Watson and this issue we are discussing ... and it seems that sometimes we have people discussing or arguing over different aspects as if they were the same issue. They aren't.

1. You have the issue of Watson and the allegations levied against him - is he guilty of sexual misconduct / sexual abuse / sexual assault. As the face of the Browns and the owner of the largest guaranteed contract in the history of the NFL, that matters a lot to me. The only person to have been privy to most of / all of the evidence and to have questioned the parties involved is Sue Robinson and she unequivocally came to the conclusion Watson was guilty. Some fans flat don't care - which is fine. Some fans act like they care but then deflect and don't want to accept Sue Robinson's ruling. Some like myself accept the ruling and believe it when Sue Robinson talks about how egregiously Watson behaved and that he acted in a a predatory manner.

2. You have the 6 game suspension Robinson handed down. Is it sufficient, should it be longer? Robinson spelled out that it was the maximum sentence the NFL framework allows for. Personally I can live with the fact and accept that the 6 games doesn't reflect the severity of what Robinson found him guilty of - but that the NFL made their bed with their legal agreement and framework. Some want DW to serve a suspension befitting the predatory behavior and numbers involved. Some think the NFL needs to simply accept the ruling.

3. You have the NFL being legally permitted to appeal the suspension now that DW has been found guilty by the independent arbitrator. Is that fair and balanced? Does that undermine the independent investigator? Clearly they can legally do this - once DW was found guilty, this avenue was always open. Robinson knew it, the NFLPA and Watson knew it and Goodell and the NFL knew it ... Personally I think point 4 below might have made Watson and the NFLPA believe that this option was unlikely to be used ... but when Robinson condemned Watson in so many ways, so succinctly and unequivocally while sighting/implying that her ruling might have been inadequate ... that really opened the door for the NFL to use this process. And so there is a lot of posts/debate directly regards whether the NFL should or should not appeal.

4. Finally you have the NFL and their long history of dealing with owner's issues and transgression in a wholly hypocritical fashion when compared to the players. Very recent and public issues with Kraft, Snyder and now Miami. None of the owners has ever been held to the same standard as any of the players. It's impossible to draw a comparison to Watson per-se as no owner (or player) has been accused by 26 women of sexual misconduct/abuse/assault, but the disconnect and hypocrisy is blatant. Some posters are fixating on this - others acknowledge the issue without thinking it should deflect from Watson and his actions. Personally it feels like focusing on this must mean posters somehow believe that Watson does not need to be held accountable because owners have by and large not been held accountable either. In a case like Snyder - the allegations are every bit as numerous and serious as the accusations against Watson.

Mixed in with this you have numerous other subtleties - the term 'non violent sex assault', whether coercion and manipulation are considered "force", despite Sue Robinson definitively finding Watson guilty we have posters still trying to float the idea that Watson is guilty of transgressions only defined by a poorly written NFL agreement, you have accusations that Sue Robinson is both a stooge that was used/ignored or that she is in cahoots with the NFL and then finally the fact that we probably all recognize the NFL and Goodell themselves have no morals and are really only interested in optics and their decisions have little to do with Watson and his guilt or accountability. (oh and I nearly forgot the claims that posters morality on Watson is allegedly influenced by their support for our former QB).

All of which makes this one giant poop sandwich for all of us no matter which side of the issues we come down on. Even to those that wrote in anger and frustration that they aren't Browns fans anymore. Ey Ey Ey. Personally at this point I doubt the trade will ever be worth it (on multiple levels) and I blame Haslam 100%.


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Even if he's suspended a year how is it not worth it?

I know you don't agree with this but the Browns had to do something at QB. They did not believe in Baker and were not committed to him long term. They needed a quarterback. They got a proven one who isn't even in the prime of his career yet.

And the Browns spent 20 years wasting first round draft picks. Sometimes multiple in the same year. The draft pick angle is being overplayed.

A one year suspension still makes this worth it. Anything beyond a year and now you can start to have that discussion.

The sucky part about a year is we are wasting talent this year. But if you have a good QB for 10 years after that you are still giving yourself a shot.

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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted by GMdawg
Quote
We also have Judge Robinson’s 15 page documents where we can read her conclusion why she thinks that Watson is a lier who show no signs of remorse. When a former judge with so many years of experience witnessing all sorts of different human characters gives that assessment then every sane person should pay attention.

Oh sure pay attention to her if your sane, and at the same time ignore her decision. notallthere notallthere notallthere

The hypocrisy is hilarious.

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Yep. And one side is expressing their opinions and the other side continues to shout down and belittle the other side for stating opinions.

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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by 3rd_and_20
j/c:

Deshaun Watson nixed settlement offer from NFL that would have suspended him for less than a year, per report
The Browns QB could have ended all his suspension drama if he would have accepted this offer from the NFL

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ded-him-for-less-than-a-year-per-report/

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Deshaun Watson accuser says she received 'multiple death threats' following suspension

https://news.yahoo.com/deshaun-watson-accuser-says-she-215547973.html


3rd and 20...I posted about that offer to settle by the NFL over 8 hours ago.

The article I posted link said the following...

Quote
Robinson's decision found that a six-game suspension was appropriate given the precedent set by the league in similar cases in the past. Critics said it was too lenient, given that Watson was accused of sexual assault or harassment by upward of 30 women, with the number of alleged victims virtually unprecedented for an NFL player.

Among those dissenters, apparently, was the NFL itself.

Prior to Robinson's ruling, the league had reportedly offered to settle Watson's case with a suspension of 12 games and a fine of nearly $10 million, but Watson's camp turned down the offer.

The NFL offered to settle the case for a 12 games suspension and a fine in the neighborhood of $8-$10 mill...and Watson turned it down. That is when the NFL appointed Peter C. Harvey to handle the appeal.


I must have missed it. And I thought I had some new, juicy info (sighs).

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Yep. And one side is expressing their opinions and the other side continues to shout down and belittle the other side for stating opinions.


rofl

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What sides? Aren't we all browns fans in here?

There's a whole river of tears in that one quote. I don't have a clue how he posts that crap with a straight face and expects people to believe him. He can go from bully to moderator to gloom and doom to victimized poster faster than I can keep track of which persona he's using.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Regarding Watson and the Browns... I'm sure they're disappointed, but per the trade they made to get him and the contract they gave him, this wasn't a 1-year all-chips-in-the-middle type of move. This move was made for the next 5,10,15 years in mind. IMO, the FO is of the mindset that they just need to ride this out best they can and it'll just end up being a speed bump in the grand scheme of things. I think they're pragmatic like that.

That said....

I thought about it yesterday, and my opinion is that I hope this whole thing goes nuclear-level ish-show from here on out. I hope everyone starts suing everyone, the Texans somehow get involved again, stuff gets leaked, we gotta go back to the arbitrator multiple times. I'm talking never-before-seen-not-even-by-the-NFL level incompetence and hypocrisy leading to all the drama and outrage imaginable because every person involved has more than earned it at this point (Watson, the Browns with their exhaustive investigation nonsense, the NFL for doubling down on its sham process, the Texans for enabling and then slipping through the cracks, and even Tony "they didn't call enough so I stopped picking up the phone" Buzbee. I hope they all catch fire at some point going forward.


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The AMTA 2022 National Convention will be held in Cleveland, Ohio August 25-27. Reconnect with your massage therapy community, hear from inspiring speakers and get hands-on training in new techniques. Save your spot now to ensure your first choice of sessions.

Because of course it had to be this.

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j/c

I've stayed out of the debate around whether DW is a dirt-bag / sexual predator or a guy misunderstood / scammed. I'll never know the real truth regardless of how worked up I get about it...BUT...

Following up on Bone's comment...who/what exactly is "the NFL" that is appealing the decision of the person put in charge of making the decision? Saying "the NFL" when the appropriate word is "Goodell" is a lie...plain and simple. It is - and always has been - Goodell.

Now "the NFL" gets to appoint a person outside of "the NFL" - who is completely aligned with "the NFL" - to be the guy to decide what is "fair"...even after the person mutually agreed-upon to be "the decider" has...decided. There is a new process...that process was followed...that process has been ignored and exposed for the farce that it is.

This trial/hearing/whatever is a joke. (Note: That is my opinion on "the NFL"s "appeal" here. It is said with no opinion regarding DW's guilt or innocence, the judge/non-judge decision, determination or commentary.)

It is unfathomable to imagine the Steelers, Ravens, Raiders, Cowboys, Patriots, etc having to sit and wait for "the NFL" to met out it's self-defined justice...again.

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You hit the nail on the head. There are multiple lines of conversation going on here. To me, it seems intuitive that you can find fault with both Watson's conduct AND how the league is/has handled things poorly, but somehow that can get you berated. Not surprising for this day and age though.


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We disagree - that's okay right?

It's simple - I think having Baker and 3 first round picks (and other draft picks) and $1/4 Billion is a better than all the negative press, the uncertainty, the taint, having a convicted (by the NFL) sexual predator as the face of the franchise, and having a once elite QB be the tarter who may not have played a snap in the NFL for nearly 2 1/2 years before he plays a single own for the Browns. . . . I know you judge Baker in the harshest light, I don't. And even if it was Jake Delhomme, Josh McCown or Kelly Holcomb versus this trade for Watson ... I'd say it was a bad trade for the same reasons. Again - it's an opinion that differs from yours which is fine. It will be interesting to see how BM does for a bad team in CLT. Maybe you're 100% right to think he's trash - maybe he will play like his last 9 games of 2020 and the uninjured portion of 2021 and you will have to re-evaluate. The nice thing is we will see that part of the discussion play out.


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Originally Posted by dawglover05
You hit the nail on the head. There are multiple lines of conversation going on here. To me, it seems intuitive that you can find fault with both Watson's conduct AND how the league is/has handled things poorly, but somehow that can get you berated. Not surprising for this day and age though.

If there's something to be learned from this as a fan, it's that (somehow) it's possible for everyone to be wrong at the same time.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Regarding Watson and the Browns... I'm sure they're disappointed, but per the trade they made to get him and the contract they gave him, this wasn't a 1-year all-chips-in-the-middle type of move. This move was made for the next 5,10,15 years in mind. IMO, the FO is of the mindset that they just need to ride this out best they can and it'll just end up being a speed bump in the grand scheme of things. I think they're pragmatic like that.

That said....

I thought about it yesterday, and my opinion is that I hope this whole thing goes nuclear-level ish-show from here on out. I hope everyone starts suing everyone, the Texans somehow get involved again, stuff gets leaked, we gotta go back to the arbitrator multiple times. I'm talking never-before-seen-not-even-by-the-NFL level incompetence and hypocrisy leading to all the drama and outrage imaginable because every person involved has more than earned it at this point (Watson, the Browns with their exhaustive investigation nonsense, the NFL for doubling down on its sham process, the Texans for enabling and then slipping through the cracks, and even Tony "they didn't call enough so I stopped picking up the phone" Buzbee. I hope they all catch fire at some point going forward.

I agree with the scorched earth ish-show exposure. This thing needs to blow up.

I think the FO absolutely did a chips-in-the-middle move...and unnecessarily at that. The replacement QB (now Brissett), the someday-QB's contract and the loss of (3) straight 1st Rd picks (and then some) is the kind of move that can set back an organization for years if it blows up. I hope not. But chips-in-the-middle is exactly how I describe what the FO did. (Disclaimer: I wouldn't not be surprised if it was JH pushing in the chips.)

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I think Haslam had a definite (maybe full) say in the move. You couldn’t make such a move as a GM/President unless the owner was with it 100%


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
What sides? Aren't we all browns fans in here?

There's a whole river of tears in that one quote. I don't have a clue how he posts that crap with a straight face and expects people to believe him. He can go from bully to moderator to gloom and doom to victimized poster faster than I can keep track of which persona he's using.

Because it's perfectly fine for Vers to attack anyone that disagrees with his thought process but to question him or worst yet expect Watson to be held accountable for his actions then you're shouting him down.

I mean really, it's gotten so bad that now we have entered race into the equation to try and support our stand.

Like I posted earlier, we have an NFL player that now has either directly or indirectly settled or had settled due to his predatory actions, 53 civil complaints about his mistreatment of women. Even with that said, there are still people that believe Watson's initial 6-game suspension is excessive. That's 53 civil suits that had every single one of them with the name Watson attached to them.

It's no secret that if you took every single investigation of NFL players over the last 10-years involving something to do with the treatment of women you wouldn't come close to the number of civil suits that have been filed and settled with Watson's name attached. There's still at least one more to go too. To think, we have posters on this site that believe Watson is being mistreated. Even after we have a 3rd party review the evidence who made a point to talk about how egregiously Watson behaved and acted in a predatory manner. The person that had access to all of the evidence and listening to the parties state their case who unequivocally came to the conclusion Watson was guilty. Now Vers may not care and that's his prerogative. He can try and deflect the facts all he wants. As much as it's his right to deflect, it's also my right to believe and accept her professional opinion when Sue Robinson talks about how egregiously Watson behaved and that he acted in a a predatory manner.

Now, after yesterday's Buzbee's press conference, we find out that the infamous Grand Jury Hearings of no indictment that so many hang their hats on (including the Browns) had a DA that presented zero alleged victims for testimony in one and only one alleged victim Solis in the other. You want to talk about someone being victimized, how can a DA take a case to a GJ and not present any testimony evidence from any alleged victim when you have 20 something criminal complaints? I wouldn't be surprised to see Buzbee subpoena the NFL records to present to the DA at this point. I do not think it was a comment in passing by when Buzbee made a candid point to point out the DA's lack of presentation to the initial GJ's. Criminally, this may not be over for Watson.

Bottom line, a difference of opinion is a right on this board. When those views are expressed that are different than yours, that's all it is. Not agreeing with your stand or posts is not shouting you down though. However, bulling your point doesn't excuse you from receiving a like response.


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