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Floquinho #1961717 08/10/22 07:51 AM
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Just a question.

How are you aware of how "communication" has taken place within the Browns.

"Negative reactions on how they handled Hunt." Hunt went public with a trade request. He is under a contract.

And Berry is at fault? I don't fault Hunt for asking but how is there a failure on Berry's part? Because he said no.

What communication around DW and Baker? Do you know what was said by whom?

From everything I have read about Berry the players like and respect him.

The Browns made a decision about Baker that every organization makes about their players. If we can find an upgrade that we feel will improve the team. We will we persue that player.

Rams did that with Goff. 49er's did that with Garoppolo.

The Browns went after Wilson. It did not work out. They went after DW. They got him. The contract was part of the reason. The contract was written like most contracts where the first year was made low for cap reasons. The guarantee is what other pro sports do.

You agree to pay the guy and you insure he gets his money. If you were a player is that not what you would want? I should make x for this many years. You (the team) have to agree guarantee to pay me. What a concept. The NFL doesn't like that. Well to bad NFL. How do they get paid in their dealings?

Is Goodell's money guaranteed? Oh a player wants his money that is different.

"The other owners don't like it." That is because they have to put the money in escrow. Gee the owners want to use that money while they pay monthly terms. Ok how about you pay interest then? Well the owners don't want that.

"What we have here is one way communication."

bonefish #1961739 08/10/22 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
[color:#FFCC33]Just a question.

The Browns made a decision about Baker that every organization makes about their players. If we can find an upgrade that we feel will improve the team. We will we persue that player.

Rams did that with Goff. 49er's did that with Garoppolo.

/color]

I guess I tend to forget that both those players "took" teams the Superbowl. I don't seem to be hearing the anger aimed at the Rams and 49ers for trading Goff and putting Garoppolo on the market. After all, these QBs took their teams to the SB, not just one playoff win. Both of those guys have higher career QB ratings than Baker. What were the Rams and 49ers thinking?

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Precisely.

GM's make decisions on rosters after it is determined where can they improve.

Drafting is one part of the job with it's own risks and unknowns.

Player contracts and cap management is another component of GM's job.

Not all negotiations with players and their agents are going to be harmonious.

IMO Andrew Berry has done an exceptional job.

bonefish #1961750 08/10/22 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
Just a question.

How are you aware of how "communication" has taken place within the Browns.

"Negative reactions on how they handled Hunt." Hunt went public with a trade request. He is under a contract.

And Berry is at fault? I don't fault Hunt for asking but how is there a failure on Berry's part? Because he said no.

What communication around DW and Baker? Do you know what was said by whom?

From everything I have read about Berry the players like and respect him.

The Browns made a decision about Baker that every organization makes about their players. If we can find an upgrade that we feel will improve the team. We will we persue that player.

Rams did that with Goff. 49er's did that with Garoppolo.

The Browns went after Wilson. It did not work out. They went after DW. They got him. The contract was part of the reason. The contract was written like most contracts where the first year was made low for cap reasons. The guarantee is what other pro sports do.

You agree to pay the guy and you insure he gets his money. If you were a player is that not what you would want? I should make x for this many years. You (the team) have to agree guarantee to pay me. What a concept. The NFL doesn't like that. Well to bad NFL. How do they get paid in their dealings?

Is Goodell's money guaranteed? Oh a player wants his money that is different.

"The other owners don't like it." That is because they have to put the money in escrow. Gee the owners want to use that money while they pay monthly terms. Ok how about you pay interest then? Well the owners don't want that.

"What we have here is one way communication."

If everything is so well handled why don’t this good leadership translates to less drama and more success?

Why do many respectable TV hosts and media pundits call our organization dysfunctional?
Why do “problems” related to the Browns often dominate off season discussions instead of us being the interesting talking point during game weeks?
Where does the word Cleveland Clowns comes from?
In our latest major press conference that included both our GM and HC it was called a funeral by Rich Eisen? Why is that?
Why’s Pat McAfee pessimistic about our chances this season and says there’s to much drama in this organization?
Our beloved Colin Cowherd says all the other owners dislike our owners? Why’s that? Not to mention all other things he says. Why us and the sad part is that he’s often right. That irritates me the most and sometimes I want to “punch” his ugly face because I hate when he says he’s right. Poof. .
Why do Roger Godell wants to hit the “hammer” on us/DSW?

If we always believe that it’s somebody else’s fault and we as a organization and supporters isn’t willing to look ourself in the mirror then nothing will change.

And for the record. I really wanted to embrace Andrew Berry to my heart. Young, ambitious, intelligent and well spoken. Not to mention his color of skin, it was exactly what this organization and the NFL needed on that position. That’s why I’m extra disappointed. Things can change but right now it’s lots of room for improvement.

Regarding Stefanski I simply don’t rate him as a elite HC. Nothing else.

cfrs15 #1961763 08/10/22 11:35 AM
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If you click on the link below and scroll down until you get to

Quote
Advanced NFL Stats
How do Kareem Hunt's 2021 advanced stats compare to other running backs?

you will see a bar graph w/green and blue lines. The longer the bar, the better it is for the player. I think you'll see that Hunt is a damn good back.

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player/kareem-hunt-11739

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
If you click on the link below and scroll down until you get to

Quote
Advanced NFL Stats
How do Kareem Hunt's 2021 advanced stats compare to other running backs?

you will see a bar graph w/green and blue lines. The longer the bar, the better it is for the player. I think you'll see that Hunt is a damn good back.

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player/kareem-hunt-11739

I've never seen anyone claim that Hunt is not a damn good back. I think the only question is whether we should move him for a pick or player. If they could get a needed-player or a 3rd/4th pick next year, I think they should move him. If all they can get is a 5th, I'd keep him.

Floquinho #1961779 08/10/22 12:13 PM
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How far are you going back?

I am talking about Berry.

Read what I wrote about the DW contract.

Berry is highly respected all over the NFL.

The owners have a strings attached to God-ell's mouth. They don't like us because of the DW contract. Bitter grapes.

Talking heads of media are click driven. Cowerd, McAffee I really and truly could care less.

If your view is all negative there are options.

I would take Berry over any GM. I am really glad he with the Browns.

DW and his punishment will go the way God-ell wants. So, be it. I accept whatever is handed out.

Whatever, happens this year I will be watching. I don't expect to win a SB. OK. So, I watched 1-31. I can live with the results of this season.
I believe the roster we have is as good as any team in football. That is because of Berry.

I will be behind the team next year when DW plays. He is a guy on the team with a number on his back. What he does off the field will determine how I view him as a person. He will have to earn thru action any respect.

That will have no bearing on the field.

WSU Willie #1961780 08/10/22 12:14 PM
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Hunt did pick some curious timing, for sure... and I think the mellow nature of the hold-in and how short it ended up being kinda bears that out.

He's coming off an injury-plagued season. Dang near all of our RBs are NFL-starter caliber. His trade value is also low because a team that trades for him would also have to sign him to a massive contract right after this year. Teams don't necessarily throw picks around for what could be a 1-year rental.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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bonefish #1961792 08/10/22 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
How far are you going back?

I am talking about Berry.

Read what I wrote about the DW contract.

Berry is highly respected all over the NFL.

The owners have a strings attached to God-ell's mouth. They don't like us because of the DW contract. Bitter grapes.

Talking heads of media are click driven. Cowerd, McAffee I really and truly could care less.

If your view is all negative there are options.

I would take Berry over any GM. I am really glad he with the Browns.

DW and his punishment will go the way God-ell wants. So, be it. I accept whatever is handed out.

Whatever, happens this year I will be watching. I don't expect to win a SB. OK. So, I watched 1-31. I can live with the results of this season.
I believe the roster we have is as good as any team in football. That is because of Berry.

[color:#66FF99]I will be behind the team next year
when DW plays. He is a guy on the team with a number on his back. What he does off the field will determine how I view him as a person. He will have to earn thru action any respect.

That will have no bearing on the field.[/color]

Kareem Hunt has been a bright little star and a likable character since he got his second chance. Smiling. Laughing. He’s making people around him more happy. Simply a very positive team mate as far as I can see.

A smart HC and GM sees that and value Kareem’s other contributions outside his stats when taking a decision about his and the organizations future.

Nick Chubb openly expressed his thoughts about the subject. Players that likes each other creates a good harmony inside the locker room and that matters on game days.

With that said.

The Browns took a chance when giving Hunt a second deal, that’s admirable. But the player also took his chance and mostly delivered above expectations. That’s also worth something. If the Browns FO don’t think he’s worth the money then at least trade him so the guy can get his fair share of money. Do the right thing and don’t be so egotistical. If other players see that Berry take care of his “own” guys the will take notice and suddenly the Cleveland Browns is place that is known for taking care of loyal and hard working players. That sort of value can’t be bought or traded, it’s something you build with time.

Am I wrong?

When things matters most stats is only a small part of the result, those who’re willing to die for the team and their team mates is often the unsung heroes in those situations.

Last edited by Floquinho; 08/10/22 01:00 PM.
Floquinho #1961796 08/10/22 01:02 PM
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Browns are under no obligation (official or otherwise) to give Hunt away in a trade. I feel for Hunt, but he's going to cash in this coming off-season. He'll be fine.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Browns are under no obligation (official or otherwise) to give Hunt away in a trade. I feel for Hunt, but he's going to cash in this coming off-season. He'll be fine.

(If he doesn’t get hurt.)

cfrs15 #1961810 08/10/22 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Browns are under no obligation (official or otherwise) to give Hunt away in a trade. I feel for Hunt, but he's going to cash in this coming off-season. He'll be fine.

(If he doesn’t get hurt.)

That is always the concern, and our luck, here.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Browns are under no obligation (official or otherwise) to give Hunt away in a trade. I feel for Hunt, but he's going to cash in this coming off-season. He'll be fine.

This is exactly what I mean. I’m sorry to say this but creating a player friendly environment is the opposite of what you’re suggesting. You need to build the foundation first then you can reap the benefits.

Floquinho #1961826 08/10/22 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Floquinho
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Browns are under no obligation (official or otherwise) to give Hunt away in a trade. I feel for Hunt, but he's going to cash in this coming off-season. He'll be fine.

This is exactly what I mean. I’m sorry to say this but creating a player friendly environment is the opposite of what you’re suggesting. You need to build the foundation first then you can reap the benefits.

Paying players when you don’t need to is unwise. Everyone involved understands what is going to happen. It’s business as usual. You are looking for a controversy where there is not one.

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Floquinho #1961836 08/10/22 02:58 PM
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This is not pre-school. It is professional football.

Hunt is no different than any player. Do you think that GM's and HC's like cutting vets when they get beat out in training camp?

Hunt went public is he the only player who has done that? Aaron Rodgers and a ton of others. Roquan Smith today. Debo Samuel not long ago.

He is under a contract to play through this year. He signed the contract.

Sure he is swell guy and buddy of Chubb. I am sure he is well liked. The NFL is a business his situation happens to tons of guys every year.

Look you are probably a super nice guy. But somehow at least it appears that you look at football like it is Happy Camp Day.

Every player knows the score. Everyone of them. I have know professional football players. Guys who played in the NFL and worked for me. I talked to them in depth about life in the game.

When Hunt leaves Chubb will be sad. He will also fulfill his contract. And the day will come when he is cut, traded, or leaves as a free agent.

When the game begins players play ball. So much of football and all the rah rah is the fans not the players. They will leave and go get the best deal they can. When your knees are toast. Adios pal. Thanks for the memories. Every year teams churn a third of the roster. Players leave that coaches, GM's, love personally. That is the way of the game when 30 is old.

cfrs15 #1961837 08/10/22 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Floquinho
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Browns are under no obligation (official or otherwise) to give Hunt away in a trade. I feel for Hunt, but he's going to cash in this coming off-season. He'll be fine.

This is exactly what I mean. I’m sorry to say this but creating a player friendly environment is the opposite of what you’re suggesting. You need to build the foundation first then you can reap the benefits.

Paying players when you don’t need to is unwise. Everyone involved understands what is going to happen. It’s business as usual. You are looking for a controversy where there is not one.

Exactly.

Playing games instead of building on trust, sending out the right message and keeping good relations. When everything is “business as usual” drama and conflicts will be your secret companion that’s pop up every now and then.

Seems like a winning concept.

bonefish #1961840 08/10/22 03:10 PM
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I think Hunt did this FO a huge favor. They know well in advance of this season what Hunt will be looking for after the season ends. He won't be settling for back up money. This helps the Browns to prepare for what's coming. He's back to full participation and the Browns know well ahead of time the situation they will be facing this coming off season.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1961843 08/10/22 03:36 PM
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People were questioning why did we draft Ford?

Because they were preparing to replace Hunt next year.

Just like Harris was drafted and developed to replace Tretter.

bonefish #1961851 08/10/22 04:09 PM
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Problem being you can never predict how the #156 draft pick will pan out. The odds of that happening are horrible. Not impossible but yet horrible. At that point in the draft it's simply a developmental pick you hope will plan out. Not a plan to replace someone of Hunt's caliber the following season. If anything I would say it makes this FO understand that if they aren't to planning to pay Hunt which I don't think they are at season's end, they need to be reaching out to work a longer term contract with D'Ernest Johnson. But at least now they know.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Floquinho #1961854 08/10/22 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Floquinho
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Floquinho
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Browns are under no obligation (official or otherwise) to give Hunt away in a trade. I feel for Hunt, but he's going to cash in this coming off-season. He'll be fine.

This is exactly what I mean. I’m sorry to say this but creating a player friendly environment is the opposite of what you’re suggesting. You need to build the foundation first then you can reap the benefits.

Paying players when you don’t need to is unwise. Everyone involved understands what is going to happen. It’s business as usual. You are looking for a controversy where there is not one.

Exactly.

Playing games instead of building on trust, sending out the right message and keeping good relations. When everything is “business as usual” drama and conflicts will be your secret companion that’s pop up every now and then.

Seems like a winning concept.

Not one team would give Hunt an extension given our current situation.

Floquinho #1961862 08/10/22 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Floquinho
Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
I really disagree with that.

How is that considered “good” leadership?

Ask yourself what’s the end goal of “good” leadership.

Stability vs. Less stability
Conflict’s vs. Less Conflict’s
Less drama vs. Too much drama
Harmony vs. Less harmony
Stringent communication vs. dishonest or bad communication

What’s in common for successful organizations/teams/clubs/companies/families/friendship?

I can go on but if you don’t understand the difference between a honest leadership built on stability and trust vs. a leadership that creates tensions, disappointments and media drama then we’re not on the same page. Most communication around DSW and BM is a text book page of bad leadership. Then you can add all the negative reactions how they handle Kareem Hunt. It’s not about right or wrong decisions, it’s about poor communication skills. People in general and media get tired. Some players get tired. A lot of supporters get tired. It’s out there for everybody to see.

Too much of everything.

I will not consume more of your time if we don’t talk the same “language” but if I use one word to describe GOOD LEADERSHIP it’s STABILTY. The opposite of what we see now.

I am aware this probably will be meaningless, so I'm not going to type the long response that I want.

Let's just say, stability is not what describes good leadership. It's a piece of the pie that results from good/great leadership.

Good/great leadership's bottom line goal is accomplishing the vision of the leader.

Tough decisions AREN'T easy if you are a good leader. But leaders have to make those decisions. All the while knowing there will be always be noise outside the organization no matter if your decision is right or wrong.

cfrs15 #1961866 08/10/22 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Floquinho
Originally Posted by bonefish
Just a question.

How are you aware of how "communication" has taken place within the Browns.

"Negative reactions on how they handled Hunt." Hunt went public with a trade request. He is under a contract.

And Berry is at fault? I don't fault Hunt for asking but how is there a failure on Berry's part? Because he said no.

What communication around DW and Baker? Do you know what was said by whom?

From everything I have read about Berry the players like and respect him.

The Browns made a decision about Baker that every organization makes about their players. If we can find an upgrade that we feel will improve the team. We will we persue that player.

Rams did that with Goff. 49er's did that with Garoppolo.

The Browns went after Wilson. It did not work out. They went after DW. They got him. The contract was part of the reason. The contract was written like most contracts where the first year was made low for cap reasons. The guarantee is what other pro sports do.

You agree to pay the guy and you insure he gets his money. If you were a player is that not what you would want? I should make x for this many years. You (the team) have to agree guarantee to pay me. What a concept. The NFL doesn't like that. Well to bad NFL. How do they get paid in their dealings?

Is Goodell's money guaranteed? Oh a player wants his money that is different.

"The other owners don't like it." That is because they have to put the money in escrow. Gee the owners want to use that money while they pay monthly terms. Ok how about you pay interest then? Well the owners don't want that.

"What we have here is one way communication."

If everything is so well handled why don’t this good leadership translates to less drama and more success?

Why do many respectable TV hosts and media pundits call our organization dysfunctional?
Why do “problems” related to the Browns often dominate off season discussions instead of us being the interesting talking point during game weeks?
Where does the word Cleveland Clowns comes from?
In our latest major press conference that included both our GM and HC it was called a funeral by Rich Eisen? Why is that?
Why’s Pat McAfee pessimistic about our chances this season and says there’s to much drama in this organization?
Our beloved Colin Cowherd says all the other owners dislike our owners? Why’s that? Not to mention all other things he says. Why us and the sad part is that he’s often right. That irritates me the most and sometimes I want to “punch” his ugly face because I hate when he says he’s right. Poof. .
Why do Roger Godell wants to hit the “hammer” on us/DSW?

If we always believe that it’s somebody else’s fault and we as a organization and supporters isn’t willing to look ourself in the mirror then nothing will change.

And for the record. I really wanted to embrace Andrew Berry to my heart. Young, ambitious, intelligent and well spoken. Not to mention his color of skin, it was exactly what this organization and the NFL needed on that position. That’s why I’m extra disappointed. Things can change but right now it’s lots of room for improvement.

Regarding Stefanski I simply don’t rate him as a elite HC. Nothing else.

This has NOTHING to do with leadership. Every question you just proposed has to do with outside entities making assumptions/opinions about a business they aren't a part of. They are here to cater to your emotions and grab your attention, b/c they know you are attached to that team.

Think of our previous regimes. A good portion of our previous regimes, there was always some REAL issues. What I mean by that is, Sashi/Dorsey/Hue issues. Ray Farmer calling the sidelines during games, Lombardi and whoever he was fighting with. Kokinis and whoever the Man person was. That right there is a good portion of our previous regimes since 1999.

Now name who is fighting within our FO / coaching staff. Is there anyone? Am I wrong? This is showing a piece of good leadership.

I honestly could go on and on with this group and the leadership they have shown. The media can talk all they want, that's their job. Heck, a few years ago they were talking about the issues between Bill B and Tom Brady when they were together. They were at the top of their game....and the media still had plenty of negative segments about them.

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Hunt might not have all the so called power plays, as some have said. Blocking and having the ability to help with the pass game is big !

Chubb Hunt

Chubb Johnson

Chubb Ford

Johnson Ford

Mack Byner

Dang !!

Floquinho #1961908 08/11/22 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Floquinho
If everything is so well handled why don’t this good leadership translates to less drama and more success?

Why do many respectable TV hosts and media pundits call our organization dysfunctional?
Why do “problems” related to the Browns often dominate off season discussions instead of us being the interesting talking point during game weeks?
Where does the word Cleveland Clowns comes from?
In our latest major press conference that included both our GM and HC it was called a funeral by Rich Eisen? Why is that?
Why’s Pat McAfee pessimistic about our chances this season and says there’s to much drama in this organization?
Our beloved Colin Cowherd says all the other owners dislike our owners? Why’s that? Not to mention all other things he says. Why us and the sad part is that he’s often right. That irritates me the most and sometimes I want to “punch” his ugly face because I hate when he says he’s right. Poof. .
Why do Roger Godell wants to hit the “hammer” on us/DSW?

If we always believe that it’s somebody else’s fault and we as a organization and supporters isn’t willing to look ourself in the mirror then nothing will change.

And for the record. I really wanted to embrace Andrew Berry to my heart. Young, ambitious, intelligent and well spoken. Not to mention his color of skin, it was exactly what this organization and the NFL needed on that position. That’s why I’m extra disappointed. Things can change but right now it’s lots of room for improvement.

Regarding Stefanski I simply don’t rate him as a elite HC. Nothing else.

It's simple. Win. If you are winning games, you are respected. If not, you are a whipping post. It's just that simple.

Right now, Cleveland is an easy target with a fanbase that responds. We are our own worst enemy and a product of a "proud fanbase". Because we show such loyalty and defend our team to a fault, we become the "click bait" that drawls attention. But, wait until we win again, oh, I can't wait until the day, we become the obnoxious fans and let every other team's fans know we are the BROWNS!!!

PitDAWG #1961916 08/11/22 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I think Hunt did this FO a huge favor. They know well in advance of this season what Hunt will be looking for after the season ends. He won't be settling for back up money. This helps the Browns to prepare for what's coming. He's back to full participation and the Browns know well ahead of time the situation they will be facing this coming off season.

I agree. If the Browns want to keep him, they can float him an offer that works for the team. If it isn't good enough then it is time to cut bait, get what we can get in trade and move on.

I like Hunt but have long felt that he was the guy we might need to move. I think the team is very comfortable with the backs we have in house. Maybe unlike some other positions(receiver) I think the Browns are good at scouting the running back position.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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cfrs15 #1962057 08/11/22 06:52 PM
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J/C Does anyone else here see a Hunt for Jimmy G trade coming? I am not in love with it, but it would make some sense considering Roger seems hell bent on making sure Watson is not anywhere near a field this year. It wouldnt be a bad fit for Kareem as Shanahans system is very similar to ours which means it would be decent fit for Jimmy G. I was OK with the 6 game exodus and it seemed about right, anything beyond 8 games and we will have to make a move and this one seems pretty damn good for August.

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IMO the Browns want Hunt to play this season with them.

They know the strength that Hunt and Chubb together bring. With all the questions at quarterback they need that strength.

However, the hinge is the suspension.

It is for sure a consideration.

bonefish #1962065 08/11/22 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
IMO the Browns want Hunt to play this season with them.

They know the strength that Hunt and Chubb together bring. With all the questions at quarterback they need that strength.


Agreed.

Add to that the questions at WR. Hunt is going to be a valuable receiver for us out of the backfield.

He'll be gone after this season (unfortunately). It would be foolish (imo) to trade a sure weapon for a possible short term replacement at QB. It's one season we're looking at.

We need all the help we can get.

D'Ernest is good, but a full time #2 with Hunt's hands for 17 games? I'm not sure. Ford? Maybe 2023.

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