DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns OL: It All Starts Up Front

He's a good story, and even spent some time here in Warren, OH as a foreign exchange student when he was a kid. He didn't even come over to the U.S. to be a Razorback until he was 19 and he did his full four years there, finally getting drafted by New England in 2019.

He's likely just finally finding his groove after getting to settle in at one location for a while.

Thanks. That is awesome stuff. I could watch that for hours.

Thanks, that was very easy to follow and not replete with mind-numbing ‘coach-speak’.

PFF hilariously gave Bitonio a grade a run block grade of 58.7. Andrew Whitworth was clowning PFF's OL grading. I've read guys like Jake Burns question their grading when it come to line play.

Always enjoy Baldy Breakdowns.

Bitonio and Teller are both HoF caliber talents.

I have to know, what side of the tracks are we going to use with PFF line grades?

MG receives the highest PFF Grade in the NFL last week @ 94.4 - we'll take it, he's the best.

Teller was the highest rated OG in the NFL last week @ 85.9 - we'll take it, he has HOF caliber talents.

Clowney graded out at 76.3 and the 21st rated edge rusher in the NFL last week - we have great bookend DE's.

Hudson graded out at 76.0 and the 8th rated OT in the NFL last week - well deserved and earned, we'll take it.

BUT................

Elliott graded out at 60.2 and the 47th rated DT last week - BS, our DT's are serviceable.

Bitonio graded out at 59.0 and the 35th rated OG last week - PFF sucks and is questionable in their ratings or could have just been a bad week.

Bryan graded out at 57.6 and the 58th rated DT last week - clowning PFF's grading.

Njuko graded out at 56.1 and the 34th rated TE in the NFL last week - he's worth his 14.137M per year because after 5-years, he has potential.

Wells graded out at 51.7 and the 59th graded OT last week - can't be, we have the best OL in the NFL.

Bryant graded out at 51.4 and the 41st rated TE in the NFL last week - great 1-2 punch at the position.

Pocic graded out at 51.3 and the 24th rated center in the NFL last week and the lowest OL/DL player grade for the Browns week 1 - this is questionable grading.


So, I have to know, is it our policy to only accept PFF grades when they show our players doing well - or - if the players that were rated low are questionable ratings, then does that mean the high ratings are also questionable? I'm just trying to not to be confused when we talk real football. It's difficult when you don't know which guidelines we're going to follow.

The Player Grading Scale:
100-90 - Elite
89-85 -- Pro Bowler
84-70 -- Starter
69-60 -- Backup
59-0 -- Replaceable

Love those breakdowns from baldy

Some of you may have noticed this, but for those that missed it, I want to bring up two of the plays that Baldy referenced. The first was what he called Gut Punch Peft. The Second was what he called Gut Punch Left, Reverse Right. I bring these up because I've been talking about how the very best playcallers use building blocks when calling plays. I brought to everyone's attention when Shanny was here. He is the best I've ever seen at doing it. For example, on a certain play or play, he would have his TE line up on the left side rather than the right. On those plays, he would have have the TE gap--or angle--block down on the Edge and we would run an Outside Zone running play to the left. Later in the game, that same TE would chip the Edge and break free on a long drag route where he would be wide open.

I have talked about how Stefanski does the same types of things. We ran that Gut Punch Left play a few times during the game. We had some success. The D starts to really flow that way to stop the physicality of the play and we zap them w/the reverse. These are examples of how the best playcallers use building blocks to exploit defenses. Stefanski's scheme has its roots in the Shannahan/Kubiak tree, which is the best scheme in the NFL right now. He is also a very good playcaller who deserves to be credited for it.

I can't say I agree w/this. PFF grades are not perfect, but they are far, far superior to anything else out there. For decades, we have listened to clueless folks on here evaluate players. I trust PFF much more than some biased fan's opinion. Using a combination of PFF and Next Gen stats is pretty reliable, in my opinion.

I also disagree about the line play grading not being reliable. My eyes have told me that their OL play is reliable. Bitonio's grade will go up. He was rated extremely high last year. He missed a few blocks in the Carolina game and that obviously hurt his grade. The one area that I have questioned the PFF grades are the defensive back grades at times. I think safeties that don't read plays very well get a break, possibly because they are so far out of position. Guys like TJ Ward and Peppers come to mind.

No doubt some play calls that have many scratching their heads are set-up plays. They set up another play call, maybe later in the series, maybe later in the game.

So, that "throw away" call we complain about might be the call that breaks another play later in the game.

PFF is a useful reference but not infallible.

j/c,

I question how pff (or any other) can grade a player on one target?

And like Bonefish said, I don't need someone to tell me when a player played poorly [Wills].

Ty, I love watching Baldys Breakdowns.

Go Browns!

For those who don't know or understand, the PFF Offensive Grade is based on what the player does every play. In reference to Njoku, it's not only the 1 target and 1 reception, but also how he executed all the other plays he was on the field whether blocking or running pass routes. Njoku was on the field for 89% of the offensive snaps so he obviously had other duties than just that 1 reception play. According to PFF, our 14.137M 5th highest paid TE stunk up the joint or basically gave us the same type of play we've seen from him for the last 5-years except now we pay him like a league best TE - NOT.

Who said that I don't understand? I fully understand, but I still do not agree.

Njoku was a pivotal piece, successfully blocking his responsibilities in our run game.

The fact that you have to bring his contact into the debate only goes to show your continued hate and contempt for him.

I will have to say that people may have different opinions of PFF's grades. But what seems to be confusing some people is that you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts.

Whether people like to hear it or not you are 100% correct. People gush about Browns players getting a high PFF grade and then try to make excuses and question when a Browns player gets a bad PFF grade. They want to have it both ways depending on what suits them. I attempted to debate the point with you myself in the beginning, but after looking at it, you were right and I don't see anyone with the ability to put up any sound argument against what you're saying besides "I don't agree".

As it relates to your "hate for Njoku". How is it hate to point out they are paying a TE over 14 million a year based on "potential"? I haven't seen anyone answer a question that I asked about him some time ago. When have you seen an NFL TE not break out until his sixth season? And hey, I like Njoku. I hope he does great and that I'm wrong about him. He seems like a good guy and a hard worker. But that seems to be the go to line these days. If you have a legitimate question that people don't like, it must be because you hate something or somebody.

I've never seen you complain about a single PFF grade where they rate a Browns player high. Only when they grade one low, like right now.

Sites such as PFF that attempt to grade player performances based on what they see on film...their opinions are "amateur viewpoints"...nothing more. In the case of OLine blocking..the only individuals who will know if that OLman performed his job would be fellow OLmen from the same team or the coaches from that team.

Sites such as PFF are simply "guessing"...hoping they guess right on what that particular OLman is supposed to be doing on that particular play.

Each NFL team has it's own blocking scheme that is subject to change on every play and no matter how good PFF and such sites believe their person is at judging OLines, they are nothing more than "amateurs, guessing".

Especially when it comes to OLine, those folks from PFF and such sites are "amateurs, guessing"!

...and that is how PFF should be judged when it comes to judging OLineman...amateurs who are taking a guess..!

You have no idea what you are talking about.

j/c,

I think that Njoku is being asked to do for us on a regular basis, what most other teams ask from their #1 TE to do on a limited basis. There is where apples are being compared to oranges.

Being asked to occupy or block a LB or a Safety is quite a different animal then being asked to down block on a DE as to give your RB and pulling OL the opportunity to execute an outside run with blockers leading the way.

He has come light years from where he was when we drafted him imo.

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their view or opinion. However facts sometimes tell a different story.

Facts don't tell stories. Facts are just Facts. The stories come from interpretation of the facts. PFF grades are facts in the sense that the number is what the number is, but a whole lot of interpretation went into that grade. Unfortunately, the people coming up with the grade don't have a "conversational level familiarity with the Browns language."

That's some of the best double speak I've seen on this board for a very long time. Thanks!

Yes, I know anything with a difficulty above "See Spot run" is out of the ordinary in your reading. Glad I could help to expand your mind. Though, I don't think you used double speak correctly. Good attempt

It's always nice to see people try to expand their vocabulary.

Ah, the old degrading other routine to make your feel better about yourself. I shouldn't be surprised. The fact you can't see the humor in what I quoted by you says more about you than it does me. But hey, if degrading others is the best you got. Obviously it is. Sad.

He’s starting tomorrow too, correct? Hope he does well

Hope the team does well in no relation to any individual player except maybe the @uarterback.

j/c:

Hjalte Froholdt has graded out fairly well this year according to PFF. His overall grade is 75. Low 80s in run blocking, which is good. Low 60s in pass blocking, which is below what you want. But, 75 is a nice grade. He just doesn't have enough snaps to qualify. His grade for Sunday was 69. Not bad.

I did see him get pancaked on pass play and he allowed penetration on the qb sneak that failed, but he did a nice overall job filling in for Teller. We are going to miss Teller, though.

mac, going into the game, his overall grade was 75, which is good. Pass blocking was around 62. Run blocking was strong at 81.

After the game, his season's grades are as follows:

Run blocking: 76.6
Pass blocking: 48.2
Overall: 68.9

Overall grade is decent. Run blocking is good. Pass blocking is an issue. We saw too many quick pressures last week. Still, the guy is pretty decent. Good call by you on identifying the guy. He should provide good depth for us.