Callahan is great, but the heavy OL packages come from Stefanski. This is his scheme and his play calling. Thank God that we have Callahan to teach our o-linemen, but he isn't calling the plays or coming up w/the schemes.
vers...not that it really matters who came up with the heavy OLine packages..Stefanski or Callahan...but lets not forget that Callahan's coaching experience dwarfs Stefanski's experience level. Callahan has 42 yrs of coaching experience compared to Stefanski's 17 yrs but Stefanski never coached the OLine.
Callahan coached OLine for more than 20 yrs, and 8 yrs as OC and another 16 yrs as HC and ast.HC. (note: Callahan held down 2 job titles at the same time, therefore the total numbers exceed his 42 yrs of coaching.) The point is, Callahan was fully qualified with more than enough experience to develop his own "OLine schemes", such as the heavy OL packages...and I'm sure that Callahan would share his knowledge with Stefanski.
So you are saying that Stefanski is a good coach who let's his coaches coach and is open to their input.
Also, Callahan is older so he is going to have more years in the game. It's not like Stefanski hasn't been coaching a good while as you point out his 17 years in the game. I'd say that 17 years in any job makes you a veteran in that profession.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
mac, I was not dissing Callahan. He is a great, great OL coach. Probably the best in the business. Of course he shared or shares his experience w/Stefanski. However, he was hired because he has experience coaching the zone blocking schemes Stefanski needed to run his schemes. It's real popular to disrespect Stefanski on this board right now, but those same folks don't like giving him any credit for what he does do and who he did hire. Also, Callahan failed as a HC and was actually accused of sabotaging the season by players like Tim Brown, Jerry Rice and Charles Woodson. He is great at what he does and we would be tremendously hurt if he left here, but let's keep it real. We are running Stefanski's schemes.
So you are saying that Stefanski is a good coach who let's his coaches coach and is open to their input.
Also, Callahan is older so he is going to have more years in the game. It's not like Stefanski hasn't been coaching a good while as you point out his 17 years in the game. I'd say that 17 years in any job makes you a veteran in that profession.
As I pointed out, in Stefanski's 17 yrs, he has never coached the OLine while that is what Callahan has done for most of his 42 yr career.
X and O guys like Stefanski dream of all kinds of potential formations and new plays then turn to their coaching staff and ask..do we have the personnel to run this?...a heavy OLine package, for example.
Given the stable of OLine talent that Callahan has developed and the depth behind our starters, Callahan would support the idea and scheme the blocking to make a heavy OLine package work.
I believe Stefanski is smart enough to know what he does not know and leaning on Callahan for his input would be smart football.
Now, if we could convince Stefanski to stop running "gadget plays"...
mac, I was not dissing Callahan. He is a great, great OL coach. Probably the best in the business. Of course he shared or shares his experience w/Stefanski. However, he was hired because he has experience coaching the zone blocking schemes Stefanski needed to run his schemes. It's real popular to disrespect Stefanski on this board right now, but those same folks don't like giving him any credit for what he does do and who he did hire. Also, Callahan failed as a HC and was actually accused of sabotaging the season by players like Tim Brown, Jerry Rice and Charles Woodson. He is great at what he does and we would be tremendously hurt if he left here, but let's keep it real. We are running Stefanski's schemes.
vers...show me where I have called for Stefanski's head.
But, lets not put Stefanski on a pedestal and act like he is above criticism. I have pointed out that Stefanski's lack of influence on the defensive side of the ball in the early part of the season when the defensive backfield was such a mess did expose Stefanski's limitations as a HC. I have pointed out that IMO Stefanski is a better Offensive Coordinator than a HC..and I still maintain that belief.
Some teams are able to make such an arrangement work..where the HC is calling the plays and more involved with the offense than the defense. But if a franchise is going make such an arrangement work, they better have the right guy coaching the defense. To become a more complete HC, Stefanski needs to be more involved in the ENTIRE TEAM and not just the offense, imo.
What I don't get, Stefanski was a "defensive star" in college, playing DB...
From wiki: "Stefanski played defensive back while at Penn, being named the Quakers Freshman of the Year in 2000. He was part of the only undefeated Penn team of the decade and was twice an All-Ivy League selection."
What the hell happened to Stefanski...did someone wipe his brain of all the knowledge he accumulated while starring as a "Defensive Back" during his 4 yrs of college football..?
JMO, but the Browns will have a difficult time making the leap to a Championship caliber team if Stefanski doesn't broaden his coaching interests to include the defense and special teams. Stefanski is still on OJT as a HC...but as a OC, he has that job nailed down.
mac, this is an OL thread. Why don't you talk about Stefanski, the HC, in the Stefanski thread? Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog Callahan is great, but the heavy OL packages come from Stefanski. This is his scheme and his play calling. Thank God that we have Callahan to teach our o-linemen, but he isn't calling the plays or coming up w/the schemes.
vers...it was YOU who brought Stefanski's name up with your above response...you might apply your posting standards to yourself before you accuse others of some made up excuse for not responding to my last post.
You know damn well I'm right about Stefanski's lack of interest in anything but calling offensive plays and you don't want to admit it..so you make up some bullcrap excuse and run away from the subject matter you brought up.
So you are saying that Stefanski is a good coach who let's his coaches coach and is open to their input.
One would hope so. That's what all great leaders in all walks of life do. They surround themselves with experts in all phases of their profession and are willing to listen to them. But then I've never taken that to be a bad thing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
This team has prided itself for ALL being on same page- at least OFF the field. HC should and does use all assets.
This post was about O line- JMHO, you CAN'T use FOURTH string Center and expect good results- plus our usual D breakdowns- equal ANOTHER loss. Jimmy Johnson stated - hit me in head if I ever draft another dumb guy.....sure seems we have lot of dumb players on D who can't consistently mentally do their jobs.
Stone hands on TE didn't help either.....next year. Go Growns !!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
Been thinking about the coaching situation and feel Haslam would be a fool not to keep the entire coaching staff intact through next t season just to see what they have in DW. No resets, no excuses.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Woods is almost certainly gone. I'd say 98%. The question is "when," not "if." I'd wait until the end of the year when better candidates are available.
until the OL gets healthy, expect to see Nick Chubb earn some very pedestrian stats.
I liked the results when 7 got the ball to him out is space. I wish we'd do that more often with 24 and 27:
1. Both can catch 2. If teams are going to stack the box v. run, don't ask 24 to plunge through holes that aren't presently being made. 3. Use these plays (and quick passes to the WR's/TE's to soften the D. That can set up the run in the 2nd half when teams really don't want to tackle him.
We used to have one of the best OL in the league. At present, we have a very average OL.
until the OL gets healthy, expect to see Nick Chubb earn some very pedestrian stats.
I liked the results when 7 got the ball to him out is space. I wish we'd do that more often with 24 and 27:
1. Both can catch 2. If teams are going to stack the box v. run, don't ask 24 to plunge through holes that aren't presently being made. 3. Use these plays (and quick passes to the WR's/TE's to soften the D. That can set up the run in the 2nd half when teams really don't want to tackle him.
We used to have one of the best OL in the league. At present, we have a very average OL.
.02
One only has to look at Chubbs running totals of late. If teams want to stop the run, they can and will.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Clem, I would suggest that we do have an answer. The passing game has flourished in part due to us exploiting teams who gear up to stuff the run. We are one of the most efficient offenses in the league. Of course, it's going to hurt if we move forward w/out two starters on the OL, but our offense has been very good this year.
The Browns offense ranks 4th overall in yards per game. They also are ranked very high in Offensive Efficiency and just about every other offensive metric.
We should be able to exploit it even more with DW as he gets up to game speed and learns the O and receivers. These 6 games are going to be a learning experience for DW and the whole O. Almost like an early training camp LOL!!
Like you, I've enjoyed the stats, and have seen on the field why the stats read as they do. Browns can put together top-of-the league stats and plays. Our early-game scripted sequences lead to TD's at an impressive rate. In fact, these attributes are about the only reasons I'm still around, what with the current record and all-
I guess I'm trying to make a different point.
Reboot: The thing that distresses me is that for the past 2 games, 24 has been bottled and throttled. He's still the 24 we all know, but he was never stoned at the LOS like he was in the 1stQ v. MIA. That same scene played out v. BUF. That just didn't happen with our #1s. Additionally, I've seen a reduced number of impact plays when 27 is in the backfield.
CLE has enjoyed the distinction of having the most potent 'backfield one-two punch' in the entire NFL for the past 2 years. This is Mack/Byner-level stuff, in a pass-oriented league. And yet, we've been stymied at the LOS for the past 2 weeks.
My post was aimed to show the distinction between CLE's OL then, and CLE's OL now- as it relates to RB production.
Browns have a big drop off in OL quality if too many of our 1's are down. And that is the OL we have, at present.
IMO, Our current OL production is neutering 24 and 27... and these weapons won't get back to their expected levels of production until CLE puts its Game One OL back on the field- intact, healthy- and kicking all that NFL azz. It's up to the OC/coaching staff to make the necessary adjustments... and we haven't yet been able to do that.
The OL play this year hasn't been as stellar as it was in 2020. PFF had us ranked first overall at the end of the year. My eyes told me we had the one of--if not the very--best OLs in the league that year. Last year, we ranked 8th best. Injuries to our two OTs led to the decline, but that is still a good ranking. Last time I looked, the Browns were ranked 2nd overall by PFF. However, that was before the injuries to Teller and Pocic. Also, before the Miami game where our two OTs really struggled. PFF isn't the end-all, but it offers a barometer of sorts. I'll see if I can find the latest rankings and then share them w/you soon.
I mentioned on the Buffalo/Browns game recap thread that Chubb needs room to be effective. He does not do well w/early penetration. Once he gets to top speed at--or just beyond--the LOS, he is deadly. However, he is not so good when there is not an immediate hole to run through. This may sound crazy, but it's similar to Barry Sanders back in the day. They are not similar backs in many ways, but Barry always led the league in carries that netted negative yardage. He also led the league in long runs. Chubb is similar in that regard, albeit w/out it being so obvious.
The only thing I will disagree w/you on is that I think our offensive staff has adjusted. That is why we are exploiting teams in other ways as the opponents scheme to take away our run game. Disagreements are cool, though. It's a true football conversation that we are having.
I'm going to disagree with both you and Clem slightly.
I don't think Chubb has any weaknesses in his game, and I think our OL is outstanding. I think Chubb handles early penetration fine. The last two weeks both teams just sold out to stop the run and were OK getting burned by the pass because they knew in the end that wouldn't happen. If I coached against the Browns I would do the same thing. I would not regard the pass at all and I'd run blitz every down which is essentially what both teams did. Did you notice Chubb started lining up another 3-5 yards deeper than normal? It looks weird as hell like he's not in the play but I think he's trying to build a head of steam for all the defenders he knows he's going to see right away.
This probably should be resolved in two more weeks. No way teams ignore the pass with Watson. I wouldn't think so anyway.
Losing your center doesn't help and obviously the Browns were not well prepared for that against the Bills. Also, defenses have been daring the Browns to throw the ball while they focus on blitzing the hell out of the Brissett and stacking the line of scrimmage. Until the Browns offense exploits teams via the air, dont expect defenses to let up with the present tactic.
Bingo about Chubb. It’s why he’s not as good inside the 5 yard line and short yardage. He needs a little space to get going. I think that’s why he’s so great with the outside zone stuff.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Chubb is listed as the biggest RB on the Browns roster, weighing 227/5-11. It would be hard to argue that he is likely the most powerful, also.
The problem is, Chubb is not the type of back who is good at running a dive into the line and move the pile in short yardage situation. Chubb is best when he see a lane and then accelerates into the hole. Chubb makes a living running off tackle and running the cut-back.
The Browns eliminated the FB position this season so they kind of created the problem themselves.
I’m wondering if Ford can be the RB we need to compliment Chubb in years to come. I’ve actually liked what I’ve seen from him in limited action
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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