DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus FBI Raid pt. 2

Trump: Feds Should Have Expected I’d Have Classified Docs Among Presidential Records

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-feds-expected-d-classified-031938482.html

Former President Donald Trump’s legal team has issued a response to the Department of Justice’s court filing attempting to stop him from getting the confidential records back that were removed from his Mar-a-Lago residence during the FBI’s search earlier this month.

In its response, filing to the U.S. District Court in southern Florida, Trump’s team insists that the FBI’s raid was “unprecedented, unnecessary and legally unsupported” and hints at Trump’s plans to run for president in 2024.

“Three weeks after an unprecedented, unnecessary, and legally unsupported raid on the home of a President—and possibly a candidate against the current chief executive in 2024—the Government, represented by the Department of Justice and the United States Attorney’s Office, has filed an extraordinary document with this Court, suggesting that the DOJ, and the DOJ alone, should be entrusted with the responsibility of evaluating its unjustified pursuit of criminalizing a former President’s possession of personal and Presidential records in a secure setting,” the filing reads.

The document accepts that classified material was found at Trump’s residence but asserts the National Archives should have expected that would be among the finds in the 15 boxes, as they were presidential records. Trump’s team downplays the Justice Department’s concerns about the recovered material, saying there was no “cause for alarm.”

“The purported justification for the initiation of this criminal probe was the alleged discovery of sensitive information contained within the 15 boxes of Presidential records,” Trump’s attorneys write. “But this ‘discovery’ was to be fully anticipated given the very nature of Presidential records. Simply put, the notion that Presidential records would contain sensitive information should have never been cause for alarm.”

Rather, the former president’s lawyers state that under the Presidential Records Act, the National Archives “should have simply followed up... in a good faith effort to secure the recovery of the Presidential records.”

Trump’s attorneys say that “there is no question and, indeed there is broad agreement, that the matters before this Court center around the possession, by a President, of his own Presidential records.”

In its 36-page document released Tuesday night, however, the DOJ asserted that “those records do not belong to him” and instead belong to the government.

The filings stem from a civil lawsuit filed by Trump in an attempt to impose a special master to review the documents taken from the former president, which the DOJ has opposed, along with examining the issue of executive privilege. A special master would be someone independent and appointed by a court; for example, a retired judge.

Trump’s attorneys added that without a special master, prosecutors will “impugn, leak and publicize” details of its investigation.

Trump’s attorneys also lashed the DOJ for submitting an image to the court that shows “allegedly” classified material strewn across a room at Mar-a-Lago.

“The Government’s Response gratuitously included a photograph of allegedly classified materials, pulled from a container and spread across the floor for dramatic effect,” they write.

On Wednesday, Trump took to his Truth Social platform to claim he had “declassified” the documents before he left the White House. The DOJ disputed this in its own filing.

A federal judge is expected to decide Thursday whether to appoint a special master in the case. On Saturday, a Florida judge signaled her support to approve Trump’s request.

Speaking to CNN after its release, ex-FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe said the response is “all over the map” and described the filing as “hysterical.”

“I couldn’t believe what they were saying,” he said. “They’re glossing over the point it’s actually not his records.”

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just for clarification, Trump and his team claimed recently that these documents are fake and planted by the FBI. so why is Trump ranting about not existent documents that he declassified?

After all the crimes that trump committed and got away with this one is his own narcissistic behavior flaw.

All he had to do was give the files back when they asked him. End of story.

Now his compulsive sickness that he owns everything. My generals, may black guy, my party, my documents will lead to his indictment.

The picture of the files in his desk with his passport. Talk about smoking gun with hot barrel.

It is like when they take a picture of a pallet of heroine from a drug bust.

It's getting sticky donnie. Your fingerprints are all over this crime.

Nope.

Nuh uh.

Classification procedures are pretty cut and dry, specifically to avoid the suggestion that a certain scenario "would be expected." The rules are the rules for a reason. I've seen people with stars on their collar get clearances revoked - or worse - for minor slip-ups. Hell, look at Petraeus. Even he, a decorated general and intelligence chief, received a misdemeanor conviction and a $100K fine. Should have gotten way more if you ask me. I'm guessing the information he revealed - to one person - was much less of a damaging nature than the classification levels of the documents found at MAL.

I have no idea why MAGA people can't comprehend the fact that once you're no longer president you don't have the same rights to documents as you had when you WERE president. None of this is complicated. But I guess when you have fooled a lot of people into thinking you're still president, maybe that's part of the problem. And would a sitting president even be allowed to take documents with that high a level of secrecy home with them?

No. Some of those docs should never leave the SCIF.
This is some serious stuff.
Due's immediate future is gonna be downright uncomfortable.


...and it all could have been avoided if he'd simply follow the rules.

Yeah, first he had his attorney's lie saying they handed them all over back in February. Then he refused to turn them over after the remaining documents were subpoenaed. Finally they felt they had no choice but go in and take them. Now to hear MAGAland tell it, it's all political and everyone's fault but trump's.

I'm late to this party, and have only read the posts on this page, but what were the classifications? I see the article at the top use the words "confidential documents", and if that is saying that the docs were classified as only Confidential, this is Mt Everest being made from a molehill.

Several were labeled top secret. Some top secret sci which is higher than top secret
This link has a photo of some of the documents

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-piled-on-trump-carpet-adds-to-pressure

There were several Top Secret / Sensitive Compartmented Information (TS/SCI). This is one of the highest security clearance levels. So, Trump has been trying to make a molehill out of the mountain in this case, Purp.

Yeah, and I'm actually glad Purp made mention of that, because Trump's lawyers are saying things like "sensitive" or "confidential" which are misleading because those actually are their own classification levels that are much lower. They're specifically avoiding the usage of things like SCI to avoid associating the context that you just did, OCD.

Well they're just like overdue library books, right?

I know that sounds like something someone would make up and it was. Only in this case it was trump's legal team.

Trump’s lawyers compare FBI raid to a dispute over an ‘overdue library book’

Former US president Donald Trump’s lawyers have compared the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago to a dispute over an “overdue library book”.

A Florida judge is deciding whether to appoint a “special master” to review classified documents seized during the FBI raid of Trump’s Florida estate.

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-ne...k/video/2a0c84cf49ef9dde4c2b8319e2e63823

Who - trump

What - documents that belong to the govt. many highly classified

When - when he left office he took what does not belong to him

Where - he took them to his country club which is not a secure location and they don't belong there

Why - because he thinks he owns everything he touches. He may have had plans for some things.

A federal judge on Friday unsealed a detailed list of the materials the FBI took from former President Donald Trump’s Florida home last month

Among the notable entries: “43 Empty Folders with ‘CLASSIFIED’ Banners.” There are other entries that have similar descriptions bringing a sum total of 48 empty folders that had “classified” markings.

I am assuming that they were at one point not empty. I also wonder if the intelligence community has any kind of labeling on the front of these folders that might give some idea what is missing

What was in those now-empty folders?
What happened to the contents?
Where are they now?

I fear that this guy still has material he shouldn't.
And with his base personality profile, I can't imagine anything good coming from him still possessing them- if he even does.

__________________

I still to this day, have trouble dealing with the reality that America voted this guy into the most important, sensitive, demanding job on the planet. His basic nature has been on public record for 4 decades, and he's never been anything other than what he is today.

All of this could have been avoided if one half of America saw what the other half saw.
Now, were on 'damage control,' with no guarantee that we'll actually succeed.
He should never have advanced through the primaries.

American voters had 16 other options.

Terrible.

Going with their tried and true theme of misdirection and obfuscation. Feeding the lines that will be parroted.

I think it is the result of a number of factors - I probably can't nail them all down in a simple list but I will try:

- People expect a lot while not paying attention and giving a very little in return.
- People are not paying attention and hope that there is a magic solution to the state of politics and the quagmire that we see with ineffective government.
- Trump was this outsider that painted himself as a successful outsider (again - people not paying attention to reality).
- Angst and frustration with the traditional candidates and politicians.
- HILARY. Who ran a god awful campaign - inspiring no-one other than the people who wanted to vote against her.
- A pathetically weak and insipid GOP - who went from opposing him and recognizing him for what he is, to kowtowing to him and realizing there was gravy to be made by being playing sycophant.
- A spineless GOP and administration that watched the train wreck from the inside but were too afraid to do anything. Look at Liz Cheney - she spoke nothing but the truth - and she is an outcast in her own party where she represents more of their core principals than Trump could in a 1000 lifetimes.
- Social media.
- Brietbart and Fox and all the other cronies - all so much more effective at spreading a lie and brainwashing than the Democrats. MSNMC might be the ying to Fox's yang - but they are so much less effective at their spin and craft.
- Apathy. The public gets what they deserve. There is simply not enough people who give a damn. Who want to dig and find truth and alternative perspectives, alternative view points.

Lastly - for all that Trump is an idiot and dullard in the general sense, he has a mobster's cunning and is brilliant at manipulating people, the media and the narrative.

Bill Barr Blows Up Every Trumpy Defense of the Mar-a-Lago Docs in Brutal Fox News Interview
Justin Baragona
Fri, September 2, 2022, 3:10 PM·4 min read

Bill Barr, the one-time attorney general under former President Donald Trump, told Fox News on Friday that the ex-president had no “legitimate reason” to hoard classified material at his Florida resort. Furthermore, he defended the Justice Department’s decision to raid Mar-a-Lago, arguing that the DOJ was “being jerked around” by Team Trump.

As a federal judge decides whether or not to grant Trump’s request for a “special master” to review the documents seized from his property last month, the Justice Department revealed on Friday just how careless the former president had been with state secrets at his private club.

In an eight-page inventory list, the department noted that Trump had casually mixed “TOP SECRET” documents with magazines, books, and his wife’s clothes. One box allegedly found in the ex-president’s office also contained “43 empty folders with ‘CLASSIFIED’ banners.” Federal prosecutors are mulling whether to charge Trump with criminal offenses under the Espionage Act and obstruction of justice.

Appearing on Fox News’ America Reports on Friday afternoon, Barr—who has distanced himself from Trump over the ex-president’s election lies—was immediately dismissive of Team Trump’s attempts to appoint a special master.

“Well, I think the whole idea of a special master is a bit of a red herring,” he flatly stated. He went on to say that Trump’s attorneys haven’t identified any private lawyer communications that should be insulated from government review, adding that everything else appears to be “seizable” by the feds.

DOJ Reveals Trump Kept Secret Docs Among Clothes and Gifts

“What people are missing, all the other documents taken, even if they claim to be executive privilege, either belong to the government because they are government records, even if they are classified, even if they are subject to executive privilege, they still belong to the government and go to the [National Archives],” Barr said.

“And any other documents that were seized, like news clippings and other things in the boxes containing the classified information, those were seizable under the warrant because they show the conditions under which the classified information was being held,” he added. “So I think it’s a red herring. I think it would, you know, at this stage, since they have already gone through the documents, I think it’s a waste of time.”

Co-anchor John Roberts noted that Trump and his allies have claimed the ex-president had a “standing order” to declassify any documents he removed from the White House when he left office.

“Is there any legitimate reason for those materials to be in the former president’s possession?” Roberts asked.

“No. I can’t think of a legitimate reason why they should have been—could be taken out of the government, away from the government if they are classified,” Barr replied. “I frankly am skeptical of the claim that he declassified everything.”

The former AG continued: “You know, because frankly, I think it’s highly improbable, and second, if in fact he sort of stood over scores of boxes, not really knowing what was in them, and said, ‘I hereby declassify everything in here,’ that would be such an abuse and that shows such recklessness it’s almost worse than taking the documents.”

Trump Lawyer Shrugs Off DOJ’s ‘Mundane’ Probe of ‘Espionage’ and ‘Obstruction’

Co-anchor Sandra Smith then said there “are some questions over the timeline” before stating that some critics wonder if “perhaps there was more room for the authorities to obtain these materials without raiding the president’s home.” She asked if the raid “was avoidable” and whether the DOJ could have just issued a second subpoena to obtain the documents, echoing Team Trump’s claims they were “cooperating” with the feds.

Barr, once again, didn’t mince words.

“I think for them to have taken things to the current point they probably have pretty good evidence. But that’s speculation and until we see that it’s hard to say,” he said.

“Let me just say, I think the driver on this from the beginning was, you know, loads of classified information sitting in Mar-a-Lago. People say this was unprecedented, well it’s also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put them in a country club, OK?”

Barr added: “And how long is the government going to try to get that back? They jawbone for a year, they were deceived on the voluntary actions taken, they then went and got a subpoena, they were deceived on that, they feel, and the facts are starting to show, that they were being jerked around and so how long, you know, how long do they wait?!”

In the end, though Barr said he hopes “it doesn’t happen,” the former top attorney in the nation suggested that the DOJ may well indict the former president for hoarding classified documents.

“If they clearly have the president moving stuff around and hiding stuff in his desk and telling people to—they may be inclined to bring the case,” he concluded. “And there are differences of opinion on whether that makes sense. But we really have to know the facts to see, to make a judgment about that.”



https://www.yahoo.com/news/bill-barr-blows-every-trumpy-191001230.html

Barr - one more of the ever growing list of RINO's who were once the apple of Trump's eye.

How does Trump not go to jail for all of this? At minimum he is found guilty, serves no time but cant run for office ever again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/us/politics/trump-mar-a-lago-documents.html

Documents at Mar-a-Lago Were Moved and Hidden as U.S. Sought Them, Filing Suggests
The filing by the Justice Department paints the clearest picture to date of its efforts to retrieve documents from the former president’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida.

Give this article



By Glenn Thrush, Charlie Savage, Alan Feuer and Maggie Haberman
Aug. 31, 2022
Sign Up for On Politics, for Times subscribers only. A Times reader’s guide to the political news in Washington and across the nation. Get it with a Times subscription.
WASHINGTON — The Justice Department sought a search warrant for former President Donald J. Trump’s residence in Florida after obtaining evidence that highly classified documents were likely concealed and that Mr. Trump’s representatives had falsely claimed all sensitive material had been returned, according to a court filing by the department on Tuesday.

The filing came in response to Mr. Trump’s request for an independent review of materials seized from his home, Mar-a-Lago. But it went far beyond that, painting the clearest picture yet of the department’s efforts to retrieve the documents before taking the extraordinary step of searching a former president’s private property on Aug. 8.

Among the new disclosures in the 36-page filing was that the search yielded three classified documents in desks inside Mr. Trump’s office, with more than 100 documents in 13 boxes or containers with classification markings in the residence, including some at the most restrictive levels.



That was twice the number of classified documents the former president’s lawyers turned over voluntarily while swearing an oath that they had returned all the material demanded by the government.

THE GOVERNMENT’S FILINGRead the Justice Department’s response to former President Donald J. Trump’s request for a special master.
The investigation into Mr. Trump’s retention of government documents began as a relatively straightforward attempt to recover materials that officials with the National Archives had spent much of 2021 trying to retrieve. The filing on Tuesday made clear that prosecutors are now unmistakably focused on the possibility that Mr. Trump and those around him took criminal steps to obstruct their investigation.


Investigators developed evidence that “government records were likely concealed and removed” from the storage room at Mar-a-Lago after the Justice Department sent Mr. Trump’s office a subpoena for any remaining documents with classified markings. That led prosecutors to conclude that “efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation,” the government filing said.

The filing included one striking visual aid: a photograph of at least five yellow folders recovered from Mr. Trump’s resort and residence marked “Top Secret” and another red one labeled “Secret.”

But department officials are not expected to file charges imminently, if they ever do. And the specific contents of the materials the government recovered in the search remain unclear — as does what risk to national security Mr. Trump’s decision to retain the materials posed.


While the filing provided important new information about the timeline of the investigation, much of the information was mentioned, in less detail, in the affidavit used to obtain the warrant, which a federal magistrate judge unsealed last week.


Among the most crucial disclosures were those concerning the actions of Mr. Trump’s legal team and whether they had misled Justice Department officials and the F.B.I.

The Justice Department effort began in May, after the F.B.I. examined 15 boxes of documents the National Archives had previously retrieved from Mar-a-Lago after months of asking Mr. Trump’s representatives to return missing records. The bureau found 184 classified documents in that initial batch.

On May 11, department lawyers obtained a subpoena to retrieve all materials marked as classified that were not turned over by the former president.

Clem,
I went back through some research last night and found out a couple things;
I had saw that maybe the folders were like what we do in my office at work-take a folder and use it for a project and then when you are done, scratch out the header and repurpose the folder.
That probably didn't happen here.

However, the folders did have a labeling system-even how they label their folders is highly classified. But, there is supposed to be on the folder the originator, a classification, and how I understood it a labeling of the contents.

The feds have probably been going back through their records and checking originators as to what was in these folder that were returned and what was in the folders with the missing contents. The different alphabet agencies have probably been scrambling for some time to protect methods/assets.

There is assumably a wide array of info that could be in there from weapons systems locations, weapons vulnerability, names of human sources and locations and who are the people within other governments helping them, intercepted signal intelligence and who we are bugging.

This is way the f past overdue library books. Depending on what was in there and what is missing-this is espionage or treason.
.
Oh, and Mccarthy said yesterday that there is nothing concerning many laws from having somebody convicted or currently in jail from running for president/and winning.

And another thing, I think that if trump is indicted (I do think he will) and convicted (don't have a clue about that yet), he will never serve a day in a normal federal prison. Way too many issues concerning secret service protections and other affordability's that a former president has to put him in a normal fed prison.

Trump said Mar-a-Lago documents were for his presidential library, which ex-aides said he rarely mentions and doesn't care about

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-said-mar-lago-documents-100926918.html

can trump supporters explain to me how fake documents planted by the FBI was headed for his presidential library?

For me this is rather cut and dry.. Take classified documents from where they are supposed to be is against the law. If I had done that when I had that opportunity, I'd still be sitting in jail rotting away.

Trump is no better than I am.

trump is so pathetic. I heard a clip from a rally. "they went thru my wife's things and even searched the bedroom of my sixteen year old son."

Oh, the horror! How could they? How could I be treated this way? "The FBI and the DOJ are driven by the radicals of the left and the media."

What a pathetic moaning cow.

How about this donnie. How about not stealing government top secret documents that do not belong to you. And then taking them to your country club where they were stashed all over the place including your desk.

A person of higher IQ may have returned everything when asked first and then subpoenaed. You sick POS.

I can not wait till the DOJ drags his chubby butt cheeks to court and he is cross examined. There he will make a complete fool of himself as he tries desperately to lie his way out of prison.

What a disgusting creep he is.

I hope so, but as you said, since there MIGHT be classified info we will never know what it is, or if it really exists.

Really? Do you think for a moment that Garland and a federal judge is going to sign off on a search warrant of an ex-president without proof?

Just review the legalities of the action. Look at the pictures of the bust. Documents clearly labeled. Of course the public is not going to see top secret documents.

Wait and see what happens with this.

The photos themselves with the labels on them showing their secrecy levels already prove that they exist. I don't know how much more obvious that can be.

You ever hear of photoshop? We will never know if you chose to believe we will never know. Im just here for the confusion

Crazy conspiracy theories only confuse those who are fooled by them.

Maybe. They do look like files marked secret, and they might be, then again maybe not.

I am not trying to cast shade here, but seriously, since when have you been so trusting of the FBI?

Since I watched people just make up BS and expect there to be any credibility associated with it. You don't have to be "so trusting of the FBI" in order to know pure BS when you hear it. Only one of these two scenarios makes any sense. Let's take a quick overview.....

First trump claimed he had already turned over all of the sensitive documents. They figured out that was a lie. Then they subpoenaed those remaining documents and rather than trump turning them over he tried to negotiate himself around a subpoena. This much we do know. Then, after refusing to comply with a subpoena they felt no other choice than to issue a search warrant to acquire those documents.

We know for a fact they demanded the documents from trump. We know for a fact that trump's legal team claimed they handed them all over, which was a lie. We know they issued a subpoena for the remaining documents which trump refused to comply with. So one story adds up and makes sense. All of the opposing BS are some made up false reality which doesn't make any sense.

So it's not some huge leap of faith on my part in trusting the FBI. It's more a matter of people reaching in fabricating supposed reasons not to trust them in this specific case.

Given the magnitude of what had to take place for the Attorney General to sign off on a search warrant of an ex-president.

Then have a federal judge ok the search.

One would think that the high profile of this case and the fact of the head of the DOJ's involvement. That FBI(agents) are somehow going to falsify or somehow doctor anything involved in a case of this magnitude is ridiculous. There are so many eyes on every aspect of this case. Nobody is going to do anything that has the potential to backlash.

The DOJ is pursuing justice at a unprecedented level. You can be sure that every "T" is crossed and every "I" is in fact dotted.

Plus trump admitted he had them for his planned library

Is that the latest lie?

You see things like that all the time. I mean let's face it. Did a guy actually see Elvis at a Krispy Kreme in Memphis and he's not really dead? Was 9/11 really an inside job? Could your Aunt Jane have a penis and actually be your uncle? People can pull any crazy theory out of thin air with no substance to base it on. It's the old, "Yeah but what if". Anyone can do that. That doesn't mean it makes any sense.