DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Ukraine and Russia

I think you're trusting some very slanted journalism or taking some freedoms with it. Are there Russians who are sick of this war? Certainly. Are there some protests about the war? Certainly. But I don't think it rises to the level you think it does. And then you must remember that at this point in time Ukraine hasn't invaded Russia. When you are seen as forces invading their country rather than the victims, peoples attitude will suddenly change.

No one in America cares about the Russia and Ukraine war.

That’s what Russian bots think comrade. Better bunker down over there. Keep your head down. The Ukrainians are coming for you.

If you are suggesting that you are no one I won't argue with you.

Pentagon preparing plan to send Patriot missile defense system to Ukraine

Washington — Pentagon officials are in the final stages of preparing a plan to send a Patriot air defense missile system to Ukraine to counter Russian aerial assaults, U.S. officials told CBS News.

The plan has not yet been approved by either the Pentagon or the White House, but that could come as early as this week. CNN was the first to report on plans to send a Patriot system to Ukraine. 

The U.S. "is poised to" provide at least one Patriot missile battery to Ukraine once the plan is approved, according to one of the officials. 

The Patriot system is highly mobile, and uses ground-based radar to locate and track aerial threats that can then be shot down with a surface-to-air missile. Initially designed to take out aircraft, upgrades over the years have made the system effective at intercepting ballistic and cruise missiles.

The Ukrainians are expected to need six to eight weeks of training in Europe to begin operating the system, and a full 10 months to reach full operating capability. 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has urged the U.S. to provide Patriot air defense systems as Russia continues to launch missile strikes at targets, including energy infrastructure, across Ukraine.

As the war has unfolded, the U.S. and allies have started providing Ukraine with Western air defense equipment in place of the Soviet-made weapons Ukrainians already knew how to use. In recent months, the U.S. has committed National Advanced Surface to Air Missile Systems and missiles for older HAWK air defense systems. 

"As Ukraine continues to fight, air defense capabilities are becoming critical for their future success. An integrated system, an integrated air defense system, an integrated air and missile defense system, is what is necessary as Ukraine repels Russian aerial attacks," Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley told reporters during a press briefing in November. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-patriot-missiles-pentagon-russia-missile-defense/

This will open your eyes. It should be required to watch for GOPers.



And China. I usually don't pay attention to things like his, but there is a lot of truth in what he's saying, so I hope like hell he's wrong.

England uses other peoples armies to fight their wars.
This is about chapter 4000

You might want to ask Great Britain about that statement... It's not true at all.... Not even a little.

Your statement is true. We, America, have the foreign policy to fight never in our country- say engaged in world and fight on other people's land. WW1,2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afgan all come to mind. The poster who said no Americans care about war- stupid statement, plenty of defense contractors and their employees LOVE the Ukrainian war.

A lot of vets care.

I'm sure they do....I'm one. I don't have the answer. BUT, I'm concerned about ANY shooting war. Russia has the means to end all fighting rather rapidly with use of tactical nukes- who can GUARANTEE they won't be used. How desperate is Putin and what will the Russian government, armed forces, and general population do in future? We keep sending weapons of all types to a democratic nation. Have you visited many AMERICAN major cities recently. I've been to Seattle, San Francisco, Portland, and those on east coast- the homelessness, the rotten infrastructure - and the current fix is just print more money and give weapons away- plus, we get to pay for the billions we are giving away so we'll keep our own readiness- I don't know if we are making the right decisions for us AND our grandkids.

Well the Ukraine and the rest of the free world should just surrender to Putin. smh.

New conflicts, in particular Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the flare-ups between Armenia and Azerbaijan and Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, compounded ongoing conflicts and armed struggles in Ethiopia, Myanmar, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, amongst others.Jan 12, 2023 -- other than Ukraine, which other of these current wars are we funding with billions of dollars from our taxes. You're good with our taxes, homeless, infrastructure, climate control/change, education system, mental health---lets make sure we honor the borders of all countries- how's our border.

No, it's not an either and or situation. Supporting Ukraine doesn't mean you're fine with homeless, infrastructure, climate control/change, education system and mental health. Using history as a guide we have seen what allowing our enemies to run rough shod over our allied nations results in. That's the very reason NATO was formed in the first place. It built an alliance of nations to have strength together. We witnessed what happened when each nation worked independently of one another when Hitler almost completely destroyed Europe. They formed an alliance with Japan which resulted in the attack of Pearl Harbor and WW2. Sitting back and doing nothing while watching history repeat itself doesn't seem like a viable option to me. The cost to help defend Ukraine is a fraction of what what it would cost in both $$$ and lives should we do nothing.

I'm very skeptical about supporting war. I was one who supported the decision to go to war in Afghanistan but not the decision to go to war with Iraq. Every place else you mentioned does not concern or put the enemy at the door of our NATO partners. That's the difference to me.

This conflict is just mind boggling. These Russian soldiers are just getting annihilated, wave after wave. The leadership is totally corrupt and incompetent There are thousands of videos on Telegram showing the carnage. I guess Putin is just hoping to win a war of attrition, and the general Russian public is too afraid to stand up to him while they watch their young men being led to the slaughter.

I think a big part of the reason many Russian people aren't standing up as you call it, is because Russia controls the narrative in their country. One thing I think we should all be able to learn from history is that if a government controls the message being sent to the people without opposition, people can be convinced of almost anything. Hell, when people only listen to one side of the news in general we see that can and does happen much less having the government only give them one side.

The biggest part why the Russian people aren’t standing up against him is cowardice, plain and simple. The Russian people will be hated forever in the free world. A country full of cowards. They freely send their children into hell to die in vain for Putin. The masses could put him down but they refuse. They know what freedom is. And know it takes huge sacrifices to obtain it. Cowards!

That's your impression. That doesn't make it fact. I don't hate the Russian people. I don't consider them cowards either. You sound like this is centuries ago. No civilian population can simply overthrow a government with the military weaponry the size of Russia's. Smaller, lesser nations with smaller forces and a smaller military, sometimes. It's like Americans who think their guns will make it possible to overthrow the government. Unless you can get the military to fight with you and against the government, you stand no chance. This isn't back in the days of musket verses musket or just cannons anymore.

The modern weaponry today's military possesses makes any uprising by the people futile unless the military is working with them.

I still reserve the right to consider them all cowards, which includes Russian military leaders who won’t turn on him.

I certainly agree with you in terms of people in power who may be able to sway the military into deposing Putin. And you certainly have every right to consider them all cowards if that's you position. I was simply pointing out that there's more than way to view this and why I view it differently than you do..

Lots of "smart Russians" got on planes, trains, autos?, and LEFT before becoming cannon fodder. My biggest concern about the Russian/ Ukraine War is NUKES. As we've seen daily, the Russians are not going to win- unless they decide to use nukes- use a few, will Ukrainians want more of their country turned to wasteland. Who knows what the West response would be? WW3- JMHO, we would not use nukes on Russia if "ONLY" tac nukes used. How is Ukraine VITAL to US security? Not part of NATO- Russians took Crimea essentially bloodlessly. We complained but did nothing. I don't want my tax dollars used endlessly to support a Euroasia war.

That's what they said about WW2.

Yep. Until Japan hit US in Hawaii. And then they got the first taste of the Nukes.

Slovakia, after Poland, agrees to give Ukraine Soviet jets

PRAGUE (AP) — Slovakia’s government on Friday approved a plan to give Ukraine its fleet of 13 Soviet-era MiG-29 fighter jets, becoming the second NATO member country to heed the Ukrainian government’s pleas for warplanes to help defend against Russia’s invasion.

Prime Minister Eduard Heger said during a news conference announcing the decision that his government was “on the right side of history.” Earlier, Heger tweeted that military aid was key to ensuring Ukraine can defend itself and all of Europe against Russia.

Poland announced Thursday that it would give Ukraine around a dozen MiG-29s, starting with four expected to be delivered in the coming days. Both Poland and Slovakia had indicated previously they were ready to grant Ukraine’s requests for military aircraft, but only as part of a wider international coalition.

Heger said his government’s move “is closely coordinated with the Polish side, Ukraine and other allies.”

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the promised planes were another example of NATO members “raising the level of their direct involvement in the conflict.”

“The equipment deliveries naturally won’t have any impact on the outcome of the special military operation, but it may bring more misfortune to Ukraine and Ukrainian people,” Peskov said during a conference call with reporters.

Slovakia will receive 200 million euros ($213 million) from the European Union as compensation and unspecified arms from the United States worth 700 million euros ($745 million) in exchange for giving its MiG-29 fleet to Ukraine, Defense Minister Jaroslav Nad said.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has repeatedly asked Western countries for fighter jets, but NATO allies held off, citing concern about escalating the alliance’s role in the war.

In response to Poland’s announcement on Thursday, the White House said Warsaw’s move would have no bearing on President Joe Biden, who has resisted calls to provide U.S. F-16s to Ukraine, and that it was up to other nations to explain their own positions.

Michał Baranowski, managing director of Warsaw-based GMF East, part of the German Marshall Fund think tank, said changing conditions now permit such a move since the initial reluctance to respond to Ukraine’s request.

“Many red lines have been crossed since that discussion last year,” Baranowski told The Associated Press by phone. Sending MiGs now “is not the same difficult political sale that it was last year.”

Ukraine will be able to use the MiGs immediately without needing any training.

Zelenskyy appealed directly to Heger for aircraft at an EU summit in Brussels last month.

Slovakia grounded its MiGs in the summer due to a lack of spare parts and expertise to help maintain them after Russian technicians returned home. In the absence of its own aircraft, fellow NATO members Poland and the Czech Republic stepped in to monitor Slovak air space.

Before Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022, Ukraine had several dozen MiG-29s it inherited in the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, but it’s unclear how many remain in service after more than a year of fighting.

The Slovak government that made the decision to sign a bilateral deal with Ukraine for the jets has only limited powers after a December no-confidence vote brought down the coalition government that was formed after the country’s 2020 election.

The next election is set for September, when the opposition stands a good chance of winning. Its leaders include populist former Prime Minister Robert Fico, who opposes military support for Ukraine and EU sanctions on Russia and has said Slovakia’s government has no mandate to deliver fighter jets to Ukraine.

Opposition parties including Fico’s Smer-Social Democracy party rejected the government’s decision Friday, threatening to sue.

Slovakia signed a deal to buy 14 U.S. F-16 Block 70/72 fighter jets, but delivery was pushed back two years to early 2024.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...EDS6_5kd1Yhdq46gSMg3DwVxP9rOFzDK2PKcwJ8o

ICC issues arrest warrant for Putin. Interesting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64992727

That will stop Putin from vacationing in the topics, maybe.

Putin's health is failing, he will be dead or incapacitated in a year. That is my prediction.

I sure hope so. The guy is dangerous since he has control of their nuclear arsenal.

We better care. We are marching in to a world war.

We are certainly at risk of that ballpeen. Which is why you hear so many voices expressing reservations about how far we are going in this conflict. Of course anyone who says we are at risk of getting more involved in this war is accused of being a Putin fan. Not a very smart line but one I hear often.

I cannot help but think that if , before Russia invaded we had taken Ukraine membership in nato off the table this all might have been avoided and thousands of lives saved. I wonder if there would be a response now by Russia to that offer.

Remember the Afgan war. We helped a faction that wanted to fight the Russians (funny how the theme continues)

Kinda what we are doing now only we are doing it openly.. That effort led to the fall of the Russian empire. This one, if done right should lead to his demise.

I'm not ready to be chicken little and tell everyone that the sky is falling. Think of this as the long game... We've gotta stay engaged.

Any time you can get a proxy to weaken an adversary without risking the lives of your own military personnel it's a plus. Allowing them to march across Ukraine to being right on the doorstep of our NATO allies would be a grave mistake and heighten tensions far more than helping supply Ukraine. It's easy to look at Ukraine is an isolated picture in and of itself. But that calls for you to ignore the consequences of what not acting would produce.

While I am certain the people of Ukraine find those kinds of geopolitical machinations fascinating, I think they would really have liked the past year to be one of peace instead of having thousands of their fellow citizens killed and cities obliterated. The idea of the people of the Ukraine suffering immeasurable damage and death so we can “weaken an adversary” sounds rather callous to me.

What we needed but did not have was strong leadership in the west that would have demanded withdrawal of any offer of nato membership for the Ukraine and demanded assurances from Putin of staying out of Ukraine. I have heard a number of “experts” say that having Ukraine a nato member on their border was not something Putin would accept. I just think this war was avoidable.

I think it's important to remember, Ukraine didn't start this. But, we find ourselves in a position to weaken an adversary so why not do just that.

I guess you think the previous regime would have handled it that way. But I disagree. My guess is that the previous admin would have said,, Hey Vlad,, here's some tanks and planes.. take over what ever you want.

To this day, you still have plenty on the right willing to kiss the hind quarter of Putin. Not sure why other than they seem to like a leader that takes control of everything and allows for virtually no personal freedoms.

I know a lot of right leaning people, and I have not found this to be true. Maybe your experience is different.

In the end my description was correct. It may sound callus but it is what it is. In your scenario it would have been NATO catering to Putin. And according to you it seems you think "assurances from Putin" actually mean something. Putin had already invaded Crimea back in 2014. His intention to take over Ukraine had already been made clear almost a decade ago.

Public figures like MTG and Desantis and Bobert and Gietz and Trump all stand up for Putin. Go on facebook and look around. Also if you are against us throwing full support behind Ukraine like our NATO Allies are doing, then you are not having the best intents for America. (that last part is just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it.)

Those aren't real people, those are policritters trying to get fat off the public good. Most you just can't account for what they say.