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How Propaganda Is Destroying Democracy



Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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You know you're the losing side when you plan how to challenge the midterm elections before they happen! Trump is about to openly double down on trying to steal elections.


Last edited by OldColdDawg; 10/24/22 08:21 AM.

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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg

What's as frightening as Trump saying those things - there's a lot of people that would agree with him. I bet there's a few on this board - you know, the one's that aren't communists.


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BuT WhY ArE YoU So FiXaTeD oN TrUmP!?!?


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
How Propaganda Is Destroying Democracy


Most of this is very good and well worth watching. It sort of touches on confirmation bias - it sort of hints at or talks about both Left and Right doing things - I wish it went further in that regard so that it was more balanced. But man - there are a lot of crazies and none more than that crackpot "pastor" .... "If you believe what the Left Believes then you are Evil" ...


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"If you believe what the Left Right Believes then you are Evil" ...

Trying to count how many on this very forum think and voice the above on a regular basis... And I don't mean "maybe, kinda, sorta"... I mean believe with their whole heart and mind, and yell it through a megaphone.

Ooops, lost count again. eek


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I am not certain about that. I think there is a lot of Trump angst and posters despise him and what he has done. I see a lot of posters highlighting that the extremes of the Right (Q, Alex Jones, extreme Christian Right) are dangerous. But there is a world of difference between Dangerous and Evil. There are factors and agendas on the Left I would brand Dangerous.

And I don't think this is Semantics either. And I think you'd need to watch the clip and see how and what was said by the "religious leader" that was saying this to appreciate just how different it is.


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Here's an example of something I think is dangerous - long but good read:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-tea-party-republican-state-legislatures

Should a convention be achieved, the plan would be to give states one vote each. There is no legal or historical basis for such an arrangement but its appeal is self-evident.

One vote per state would give small rural conservative states like Wyoming (population 580,000) equal leverage to large urbanized progressive states like California (39.5 million). Collectively, small states would be in the majority and control would tip to the Republicans.

Last December Santorum spelled out this minoritarian vision at a private ALEC meeting. In an audio recording obtained by CMD, Santorum said: “We have the opportunity, as a result, to have a supermajority, even though we may not even be in an absolute majority when it comes to the people who agree with us.”



--- To emphasize the issue I believe the last time the GOP won the actual popular vote was 2004. I'll let you decide if you believe even discussing or theorizing one state one vote is worthwhile.... I mean the easy thing to do would be to say it'll never happen. Just like the ide that a POTUS with 18 months left on his term would have his moderate choice for a new Supreme Court Nomination could be thwarted yet the next POTUS could rush in two nominations appointed in less time - one of which was 2 months before the end of his term IIRC

Last edited by mgh888; 10/24/22 11:26 AM.

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I do agree with you that sometimes happens. I don't think by and large that's the rule however. I believe we have posters that fall somewhere in the middle. I'm not a fan of either extreme.

I have always maintained there is a vast difference between a Republican and a MAGA/Trumpian. When it comes to actual Republicans I certainly have disagreements with some of their policy issues. However that's a far cry from trying to refuse to certify our elections. And we will be seeing more of that with the 2022 election results. I see the downright insults about other races and general nastiness as an infection. And I'm not saying that doesn't happen with both sides to an extent, but if you have any doubts about what I'm saying I can post many of the things Trump has said that no president would have ever said before. But I'm sure you know that. So yes, I do believe that type of rhetoric is dangerous to America and democracy as we have known it.

What was unthinkable not so very long ago has become far more mainstream now. But maybe on the other hand that's not such a bad thing? At least now we know what they were thinking all along and now we can identify who they are. There's a lot more of them than I would have ever imagined and knowledge is power.

Now on the other side as we see on this very board, if you don't agree with everything they say you're a communist. That's some whacked out BS right there.


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Here is your president...


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I've been called damn near everything on here at one point or the other. I was right about Trump being a criminal, traitor, dumbass, fascist, stupid, not a Christian, not a businessman, and damn sure not a good Potus. I even warned about blood being spilled on Jan 6th. Yet, I'm still called an extremist by almost all of you when that's all you have to throw at me. So all I have to say about the right and the middle is shut up until you put up. Progressives are the only leaders in this country, the rest are all pure trash as far as leading goes.

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Their America Is Vanishing. Like Trump, They Insist They Were Cheated.

The white majority is fading, the economy is changing and there’s a pervasive sense of loss in districts where Republicans fought the outcome of the 2020 election.

When Representative Troy Nehls of Texas voted last year to reject Donald J. Trump’s electoral defeat, many of his constituents back home in Fort Bend County were thrilled.

Like the former president, they have been unhappy with the changes unfolding around them. Crime and sprawl from Houston, the big city next door, have been spilling over into their once bucolic towns. (“Build a wall,” Mr. Nehls likes to say, and make Houston pay.) The county in recent years has become one of the nation’s most diverse, where the former white majority has fallen to just 30 percent of the population.

Don Demel, a 61-year-old salesman who turned out last month to pick up a signed copy of a book by Mr. Nehls about the supposedly stolen election, said his parents had raised him “colorblind.” But the reason for the discontent was clear: Other white people in Fort Bend “did not like certain people coming here,” he said. “It’s race. They are old-school.”

A shrinking white share of the population is a hallmark of the congressional districts held by the House Republicans who voted to challenge Mr. Trump’s defeat, a New York Times analysis found — a pattern political scientists say shows how white fear of losing status shaped the movement to keep him in power.

The portion of white residents dropped about 35 percent more over the last three decades in those districts than in territory represented by other Republicans, the analysis found, and constituents also lagged behind in income and education. Rates of so-called deaths of despair, such as suicide, drug overdose and alcohol-related liver failure, were notably higher as well.

Although overshadowed by the assault on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, the House vote that day was the most consequential of Mr. Trump’s ploys to overturn the election. It cast doubt on the central ritual of American democracy, galvanized the party’s grass roots around the myth of a stolen victory and set a precedent that legal experts — and some Republican lawmakers — warn could perpetually embroil Congress in choosing a president.

[Linked Image from static01.nyt.com]
Representative Troy Nehls during a book signing at the Fort Bend County Fair in Texas this month. His book falsely claims that Democrats rigged the election.Credit...Mark Felix for The New York Times

To understand the social forces converging in that historic vote — objecting to the Electoral College count — The Times examined the constituencies of the lawmakers who joined the effort, analyzing census and other data from congressional districts and interviewing scores of residents and local officials. The Times previously revealed the back-room maneuvers inside the House, including convincing lawmakers that they could reject the results without explicitly endorsing Mr. Trump’s outlandish fraud claims.

Many of the 139 objectors, including Mr. Nehls, said they were driven in part by the demands of their voters. “You sent me to Congress to fight for President Trump and election integrity,” Mr. Nehls wrote in a tweet on Jan. 5, 2021, “and that’s exactly what I am doing.” At a Republican caucus meeting a few days later, Representative Bill Johnson, from an Ohio district stretching into Appalachia, told colleagues that his constituents would “go ballistic” with “raging fire” if he broke with Mr. Trump, according to a recording.

Certain districts primarily reflect either the racial or socioeconomic characteristics. But the typical objector district shows both — a fact demographers said was striking.

Because they are more vulnerable, disadvantaged or less educated white voters can feel especially endangered by the trend toward a minority majority, said Ashley Jardina, a political scientist at George Mason University who studies the attitudes of those voters.

“A lot of white Americans who are really threatened are willing to reject democratic norms,” she said, “because they see it as a way to protect their status.”

That may help explain why the dispute over Mr. Trump’s defeat has emerged at this moment in history, with economic inequality reaching new heights and the white population of the United States expected within about two decades to lose its majority.

Many of the objectors’ districts started with a significantly larger Black minority, or had a rapid increase in the Hispanic population, making the decline in the white population more pronounced.

Of the 12 Republican-held districts that swung to minority white — almost all in California and Texas — 10 were represented by objectors. The most significant drops occurred in the Dallas-Fort Worth suburbs and California desert towns, where the white percentage fell by more than a third.

Lawmakers who objected were also overrepresented among the 70 Republican-held districts with the lowest percentages of college graduates. In one case — the southeast Kentucky district of Hal Rogers, currently the longest-serving House member — about 14 percent of residents had four-year degrees, less than half the average in the districts of Republicans who accepted the election results.

While Mr. Nehls’s district exemplifies demographic change, Representative H. Morgan Griffith’s in southwest Virginia is among the poorest in the country. Once dominated by coal, manufacturing and tobacco, the area’s economic base eroded with competition from new energy sources and foreign importers. Doctors prescribed opioids to injured laborers and an epidemic of addiction soon followed.

Residents, roughly 90 percent of them white, gripe that the educated elites of the Northern Virginia suburbs think that “the state stops at Roanoke.” They take umbrage at what they consider condescension from outsiders who view their communities as poverty-stricken, and they bemoan “Ph.D pollution” from the big local university, Virginia Tech. After a long history of broken government promises, many said in interviews they had lost faith in the political process and public institutions — in almost everyone but Mr. Trump, who they said championed their cause.

Marie March, a restaurant owner in the town of Christiansburg, said she embodied “the mind-set of the Trump MAGA voter.”

“You feel like you’re the underdog and you don’t get a fair shake, so you look for people that are going to shake it up,” she said of the local support for Mr. Trump’s dispute of the election results. “We don’t feel like we’ve had a voice.”

Ms. March, who said she attended the Jan. 6 rally in Washington but did not go to the Capitol, was inspired by Mr. Trump to win a seat in the state legislature last year. She said she could drive 225 miles east from the Kentucky border and see only Trump signs. No one in the region could imagine that he received fewer votes than President Biden, she insisted.

“You could call it an echo chamber of our beliefs,” she added, “but that’s a pretty big landmass to be an echo chamber.”

For America or Against It

In a bustling clinic called the Health Wagon in Mr. Griffith’s district, Paula Hill-Collins sees low-income and uninsured patients with maladies from tooth decay to heart conditions and diabetes.

Since the last election, they have often raised another complaint: the false claim that Democrats stole Mr. Trump’s victory.

“‘Did you see that box of votes that was thrown away? Did you see they found extra ones?’ This is what we hear from our patients,” said Ms. Hill-Collins, a nurse practitioner who grew up in the town of Coeburn, population 1,600.

Residents of the area — former coal towns at the southern end of Appalachia — have felt cheated for generations, she said. “They believe it because look what’s happened to us,” she said, recalling the exploitation of her community first by mining interests and more recently by drugmakers. “That’s fed a culture of suspicion.”

Families still swap stories about underhanded land deals that prospectors struck with residents more than a century ago for minerals under the hills. Now, the number of coal miners has plunged to less than 2,000 from more than 10,000 employed at about 340 mines three decades ago, according to government statistics.

In a congressional district bigger than New Jersey, villages that once hummed with the sounds of children now feel “just like ghost towns,” said Betty S. Hess, 75, of Honaker, population 1,200. A daughter, sister and wife of miners, she now helps lead an association to support those with black lung disease.

Nearly a fifth of the homes in the district sit empty. The average household earns about $46,000 a year, about a quarter less than in other Republican-held districts. Even with Virginia Tech, only about 21 percent of the residents hold college degrees, compared with about 31 percent nationally.

The toll of the opioid crisis is unmistakable. In Lebanon, population 3,100, seven addiction clinics line Main Street. Kimberly Harris, 50, director of a nearby funeral home, said she typically buried at least one overdose victim a month. “The older I get, the younger they get,” she said, noting that she adopted the child of a relative who had become addicted. (Last week, she was preparing a service for a 67-year-old who had died of lung cancer after working in coal mines from the age of 14.)

Conditions like diabetes and heart disease overlap so often that health workers feel lucky when their patients can walk in the door, said Teresa Owens Tyson, a nurse practitioner at the Health Wagon. “Sometimes they collapse in the parking lot,” she said.

Although not all are so hard-pressed, the districts of the House objectors share similar disadvantages. Households there had nearly 10 percent less annual income in 2020 than those in other Republican areas. Not only were college degrees less common, so were high school diplomas.

The G.O.P.’s hold on those districts reflects its shift away from its former country club image to become the party of those left behind. The residents of Democratic districts, on average, are better educated and earn significantly more.

Tim Wilson, a 60-year-old Army veteran who owns a business in Christiansburg that provides wigs and other supplies to cancer patients, said he won a town council seat last year to help attract business and jobs.

Yet he feared the cultural cost of outside investment. A big employer “would also bring with it all the executives and what comes with it from Northern Virginia or California, one of the strong blue regions,” he said. “There is this fear.”

The same distrust drove feelings about the last election, he said: Democratic elites in the big cities — the ones who took people “from being coal miners to being put out on the street” — were pushing what he called the myth that the election had run perfectly.

“If we don’t show the people that are a level above us and a level above them in elected offices that we mean business, it’ll never change anything,” he said. “We need to show them that we have the courage to stand up to the status quo.”

Others took offense at the suggestion that election doubts were tied to income, education or faith. (Districts of objectors had higher concentrations of evangelical Protestants than other Republican-held areas, according to the most recent data available.)

Instead, some residents said that their reasons for questioning the results should be obvious to anyone: the relatively small size of Mr. Biden’s rallies, the overnight disappearance of Mr. Trump’s early lead as more votes were tallied, the allegations about stuffed ballot drop boxes.

“It’s not a political thing. It’s a we-love-our-country thing,’” said Alecia Vaught, 46, a homemaker and Republican organizer in Christiansburg. “You’re either for America or you’re not.”

Vanishing Opportunities

Mr. Griffith, 64, a lawyer and state legislator before joining Congress, built his career fighting for the lost cause of coal. In the Tea Party wave of 2010, he defeated a 14-term Democratic incumbent by slamming him for supporting carbon caps.

His commitment to fossil fuels has made Mr. Griffith a vocal critic of electric cars, which he notes cannot yet cross his district without recharging. Earlier this year, he criticized Democrats for holding a hearing on the technology even though many Americans were worried about high energy prices because the Russian war in Ukraine had cut global oil and gas supplies.

“Have my friends forgotten where our electricity comes from today?” he asked fellow lawmakers, arguing for focusing on U.S. production of coal, oil and gas.

He was an enthusiastic backer of Mr. Trump, who had made a campaign promise to bring coal jobs back. After he took office, Mr. Griffith celebrated: “The war on coal is over.”

When Mr. Trump lost in 2020, his claims of a stolen election quickly took hold in the district. “I’d be pumping gas and people who didn’t even know me would want to know if I thought the election was stolen,” said Frank Kilgore, 70, a lawyer-lobbyist and local historian who is an independent.

“Morgan heard it more and more from his base,” Mr. Kilgore added. Local Republican leaders “said they thought it was stolen, too,” raising the specter of a primary challenge if Mr. Griffith voted to accept the results. Constituents circulated a petition demanding that he fight Mr. Trump’s loss.

Yet Mr. Griffith was not among the vocal chorus of House Republicans echoing Mr. Trump. On Jan. 6, 2021, he voted to object citing only changes to election procedures during the pandemic.

The congressman, who declined to comment for this article, wrote to constituents after Mr. Biden was inaugurated: “It is time to move forward.”

But local party leaders have not given up.

In Montgomery County, the largest in the district, the party has been offering weekly screenings since the summer of the film “2000 Mules.” Using faulty arguments, the film alleges that Democrats conspired to stuff ballot drop boxes to engineer Mr. Trump’s defeat.

“The other side always talks about facts, facts, facts, but facts change and facts are whatever you want them to be,” said Jo Anne Price, 70, host of the screenings, accusing news organizations of distorting the truth.

The screenings take place at a strip mall in Christiansburg, where she also leads seminars on accounting, cursive and “the foundation of the nation.” A biracial woman who traces her lineage to enslaved people and the white family that owned them, Ms. Price sells and flies the Confederate flag. “I’m proud of all the things that made my country what it is,” she said.

She became involved in local politics during the pandemic, organizing protests against masks and vaccines. This year she replaced the county party’s chair, faulting her predecessor for not pushing the “stop the steal” cause.

At a recent meeting, Ms. Price warned fellow party volunteers that thousands of former Virginia Tech students may be registered to vote in her county. Her group vowed to seek new laws to purge voter rolls and to elect pro-Trump insurgents.

“We’re going to set this county on fire,” Ms. Price promised.

A New America

Less than a month before the 2020 election, Democrats organized a rally outside a predominantly Black high school in a Fort Bend town adjacent to Houston, and a caravan of Trump backers showed up.

Several arrived in military vehicles. One drove a white hearse displaying a sign: “Collecting Democratic Votes One Dead Stiff at a Time.” A placard on the windshield served as a rejoinder to the recent racial justice movement: “All Lives Matter.” A mannequin that appeared to be a Black woman lay in an open coffin.

Eugene Howard, 39, an alumnus of the high school and then president of a local chapter of the N.A.A.C.P., said Trump supporters shoved him and used a racist slur as he walked to his car.

“The goal was intimidation,” he argued in an interview, saying it was motivated by the same emotions as the denial of the 2020 election results: “white fear and backlash.”

Texas is one of six states where the white population is now outnumbered by Black, Hispanic and Asian residents. Mr. Nehls’s district, which includes most of Fort Bend County, is part of the reason: It swung from nearly 70 percent to less than 40 percent white over the last three decades.

But changing demographics in many places may not yet be reflected at the polls, because of a larger white share of the voting-age population and higher turnout levels. Exit polls show that white Texans still made up 60 percent of the state’s voters in 2020.

The greater Houston area is the center of the state’s transformation and also a hub of the “stop the steal” movement. True the Vote, the organization behind some of the loudest accusations of voter fraud, was founded 12 years ago by a Fort Bend resident who claimed that a nonprofit was falsely registering voters in Black and Hispanic neighborhoods in Houston. A cluster of congressmen who actively promoted Mr. Trump’s election denial come from the area. Next month, another Republican who calls the election stolen is expected to replace an incumbent who accepted the Biden victory and did not seek re-election.

Many Fort Bend-area Republicans say their doubts about the 2020 results have nothing to do with race.

“I think it has more to do with polarization than it does with racial or demographic issues,” said Jacey Jetton, 39, a Texas state legislator and former G.O.P. county chairman. “We are so divided now,” he added, that no one can accept that their opponents “believe what they believe.”

He said he “declined to speculate” whether Mr. Trump had won or lost in 2020. But Mr. Jetton, who is Korean American, noted that forward-looking Republicans in many places were competing for minority voters. In Fort Bend, the party won local races through 2016, partly through outreach to Black, Hispanic and immigrant groups — particularly Asian Americans. The county government flipped to the Democrats under Mr. Trump in 2018, organizers in both parties said, in part because the president’s rhetoric — “shithole countries,” a “Muslim ban” — had repelled those voters.

But William Thompson, 47, a white Republican who declined to seek re-election in 2020 as a Fort Bend town constable, said the racial shift in the electorate helped explain the denial of Mr. Trump’s defeat.

“The Republican Party is, you know, dominated by white males, and the hard-core Republicans — especially in a place like Fort Bend — might not be fully awake to the fact that we are a melting pot,” he said. “They just may not believe that all these people of color — all these different religions, maybe Muslims, maybe atheists — have moved in and are voting.”

Craig LeTulle, 65, a building contractor who described himself as dubious about Mr. Biden’s win, felt similarly.

Mr. LeTulle used to lead the county party’s outreach to minority voters, courting culturally conservative Asian American business owners and professionals. He said he often visited the local Hindu temple in his cowboy hat and boots with a kurta over his Wranglers. And he cited some success, like persuading a Black Democrat who had lost her primary to switch parties.

“You could see the demographic changes coming a long time ago,” he said, “but if you look at a picture of our list of candidates, it is white, white, white, white, white.”

Right-leaning media commentators sometimes assert that liberals are conspiring to increase the number of nonwhite voters in order to “replace” white ones. That theory may have particular traction in objectors’ districts, where the white share of the population fell an average of 14 percent over the last three decades, compared with about 10 percent in other Republican-held areas.

Many objector districts are in former Confederate states that were home to large Black populations. Black residents make up about 20 percent of Fort Bend, including descendants of former slaves who once worked on a sugar plantation, the site of what is now the town of Sugar Land.

The town is the center of the fast-growing Asian American population, now a fifth of the county. The largest mosque, Maryam Islamic Center, is so besieged by candidates of both parties that it limits political speeches to three Fridays each election cycle and caps them at three minutes.

A sprawling Hindu temple with a specialized grocery store and cafe draws visitors from across the South and Southwest. And where football once ruled, cricket leagues flourish. About a dozen pitches around the county attract players with roots in former British colonies — despite occasional friction with neighbors.

In some farm towns, “they don’t want us going into their property after a ball — some guys say they will shoot if we trespass,” said Devon Small, 68, a Jamaican-born umpire. “But some of the neighbors are friendly and they will come and ask, what is that?”

Mr. Nehls called immigrants an asset to the community.

“If you go to the Sugar Land memorial hospital and try to read the names of the doctors, we can’t pronounce them or spell them, right?” the congressman said in an interview at his book signing.

“But those are the same guys who are going to be putting in my stent in a few years!” he continued, trying to sound out the name of his own cardiologist from a business card. “I think he is from Pakistan, and I think he is a Muslim,” Mr. Nehls said, “and I love him!”


‘Power Grab’

Some Fort Bend Democrats said they saw an obvious connection between the declining white share of the population and the refusal by Mr. Nehls and his supporters to accept Mr. Trump’s defeat.

“It is a power grab by white Republicans,” said K.P. George, a Democrat born in India who was elected in 2018 as the county’s top executive, the first nonwhite person to hold the office.

Xenophobic hostility “is all I get,” he quipped in an interview.

Mr. George has cited slurs against him posted by online accounts backing his Republican opponent this fall. These have included falsehoods that he is a Muslim and changed his name “to sound more American,” attempts to link him with Osama bin Laden and a demand that he recognize a “white heritage month.”

In response, his rival has accused Mr. George and other Democrats of stoking “racial division to distract from their failures of leadership.” (That candidate is Mr. Nehls’s twin brother, Trever, a former elected constable and ex-Army colonel. He declined to comment.)

Troy Nehls, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, served as the county sheriff for eight years before running for Congress in 2020. His seat appears safe this year because the Republican-controlled state legislature redrew the boundaries of his district to include more predominantly white and solidly Republican terrain outside Fort Bend County. Whites now make up a majority of the eligible voters in the district.

Fort Bend Republicans say they are playing down election integrity issues in the midterms, wary that attention on Mr. Trump’s dispute may turn off independent voters worried about everyday matters like inflation. Still, Bobby Eberle, the county party chairman, said fears of voter fraud after the last election drove many of the calls he received from volunteers.

The Harris County Republican Party is training poll watchers to suspect mischief from local election workers. “There was a lot more shenanigans going on than I was aware of,” said Jacqueline Clinton, 55, leaving one of the training sessions in Kingwood, a Houston suburb.

For his part, Mr. Nehls said election fraud was the only thing that could stop “the greatest leader of my lifetime” from returning to the Oval Office in 2024.

“In a fair election, you can’t beat Donald Trump!” Mr. Nehls said, posing for photographs in front of a life-size photo of the former president.

He saw no fear of demographic change among his supporters, he said. “These people aren’t against brown or Black people. They just don’t like the way Democrats are running the country.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/23/us/politics/republican-election-objectors-demographics.html

Those people. smh


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The Open, Unabashed Rise Of Anti-Semitism From Leading Figures On The Right



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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
I've been called damn near everything on here at one point or the other. I was right about Trump being a criminal, traitor, dumbass, fascist, stupid, not a Christian, not a businessman, and damn sure not a good Potus. I even warned about blood being spilled on Jan 6th. Yet, I'm still called an extremist by almost all of you when that's all you have to throw at me. So all I have to say about the right and the middle is shut up until you put up. Progressives are the only leaders in this country, the rest are all pure trash as far as leading goes.

If only some of them could be elected outside of California and New York. It's hard to lead when you can't get elected.


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3 men found guilty of supporting Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot

October 26, 2022 / 12:38 PM / CBS/AP

Three men accused of supporting a plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer were convicted of all charges Wednesday, a triumph for state prosecutors after months of mixed results in the main case in federal court. Joe Morrison, his father-in-law Pete Musico, and Paul Bellar were found guilty of providing "material support" for a terrorist act as members of a paramilitary group, the Wolverine Watchmen.

They held gun drills in rural Jackson County with a leader of the scheme, Adam Fox, who was disgusted with Whitmer and other officials in 2020 and said he wanted to kidnap her.

Musico's attorney, Kareem Johnson, said he was disappointed in the verdict and would prepare for sentencing.

Jurors read and heard violent, anti-government screeds as well as support for the "boogaloo," a civil war that might be triggered by a shocking abduction. Prosecutors said COVID-19 restrictions ordered by Whitmer turned out to be fruit to recruit more people to the Watchmen.

"The facts drip out slowly," state Assistant Attorney General Bill Rollstin told jurors in Jackson, Michigan, "and you begin to see — wow — there were things that happened that people knew about. ... When you see how close Adam Fox got to the governor, you can see how a very bad event was thwarted."

Morrison, 28, Musico, 44, and Bellar, 24, were also convicted of a gun crime and membership in a gang. Prosecutors said the Wolverine Watchmen was a criminal enterprise.

Morrison, who recently tested positive for COVID-19, and Musico watched the verdict by video away from the courtroom. Judge Thomas Wilson ordered all three to jail while they await sentencing scheduled for Dec. 15.

Defense attorneys argued that the three men had broken ties with Fox by late summer 2020 when the Whitmer plot came into focus. Unlike Fox and others, they didn't travel to northern Michigan to scout the governor's vacation home or participate in a key weekend training session inside a "shoot house."

"In this country, you are allowed to talk the talk but you only get convicted if you walk the walk," Johnson said in his closing remarks.

Defense lawyers couldn't argue entrapment. But they attacked the tactics of Dan Chappel, an Army veteran and undercover informant. He took instructions from FBI agents, secretly recorded conversations and produced a deep cache of messages exchanged with the men.

Whitmer, a Democrat running for reelection on Nov. 8, was never physically harmed. Undercover agents and informants were inside Fox's group for months. The scheme was broken up with 14 arrests in October 2020.

Fox and Barry Croft Jr. were convicted of a kidnapping conspiracy in federal court in August. Daniel Harris and Brandon Caserta were acquitted last spring. Ty Garbin and Kaleb Franks pleaded guilty.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gretch...dKNQqI3aeq17yucFg8c3xuBDAT8xHoA2UPOgY5J8


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Good. Those people should rot in hell IMHO.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 10/26/22 09:33 PM.

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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Good. Those people should rot in hell IMHO.
Violent much?

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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Good. Those people should rot in hell IMHO.
Violent much?

Coward much?


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Dont worry Arch, he cant go any farther than his oxygen tube.


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Crime = time.
The Good Guys won this time.

Who are the Good Guys?
We, The People.

We are still a nation of laws.
These crazed folk broke them.
Retribution is now nigh.
Let Justice be done.

______________

This crazyass story is just the iceberg's tip.

It's going to get worse... and more frequent- as an increasing number of marginalized, isolated, desperate individuals find each other online. The most recent/most visible example that bears out my predix: Jan 6. That event resulted in almost 1K arrests/hundreds of prosecutions.

Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were my wake-up call.
I've been awake/aware ever since.

These folk are just getting started.
Samuel L. Jackson's character Ray Arnold said it best in the movie movie 'Jurassic Park':



"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Originally Posted by EveDawg
Dont worry Arch, he cant go any farther than his oxygen tube.

What do you know about my tube? And no, only at night.


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I been wondering how many of those I don't support what Trump did on the 6th, I'm done with MAGA, I'm not Qanon, I'm a one-issue voter, yada-yada-yada guys will post that they voted straight dem? I can't believe JD Vance is running so close to Ryan. We would never get honest answers on here, but I'd love to see a show of hands for Vance supporters. He's every bit the turd Trump is.


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The mad Goper MAGA haters will believe the altered version no doubt.


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January 6 committee obtains eight emails showing possible planning of post-election crime

The House select committee investigating the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol has obtained eight emails from late 2020 that a judge determined show Donald Trump and his lawyers planning to defraud courts and obstruct the congressional vote on the presidency.

A new court filing from Trump’s then-attorney John Eastman disclosed that the House said it had accessed the emails on Friday.

The House probe has been fighting for the records for months, and a federal judge cleared the way for the committee to receive them in recent weeks, calling them possible evidence of the planning of crimes on Trump’s behalf.

Eastman had tried several last-ditch attempts to hold off the committee. The panel declined to comment to CNN.

The emails that the committee finally has accessed include four communications between Trump attorneys that appear to indicate they knew details they submitted to courts to challenge the election were false, and four emails that reveal them discussing filing lawsuits as a way to hold off congressional certification of Trump’s electoral loss, Judge David O. Carter previously revealed.

One of the emails describes concern the lawyers had about submitting a declaration signed by Trump himself in a lawsuit challenging the election, which said the election fraud allegations it presented to the court were true, the judge’s previous opinion revealed. The Trump-signed statement was sent to court, even though the lawyers knew the allegations within weren’t sound, according to the court record.

Eastman is now asking the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals for an order telling the House to return or destroy the eight emails.

“In order to comply fully with the district court’s production order, counsel for Dr. Eastman provided to the Select Committee at 2:04 pm PDT [Friday] a link to a drop box folder containing the remaining eight documents that were the subject of the Motion to Stay that was at the time (and is still) pending before the Ninth Circuit. In the email transmitting that link, counsel for Dr. Eastman requested that the documents not be accessed until the Ninth Circuit had had a chance to rule on the Motion for Stay pending appeal,” Eastman’s team told the appeals court on Sunday.

The committee has repeatedly argued that a core tenet of Trump’s plan to overturn the 2020 election results was to file frivolous lawsuits intended to delay certification of the results in key swing states.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/30/politics/january-6-committee-2020-election-emails


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rofl


This, a few days after serial election denier is already denying 2024... just in case. rofl Wow.





Bush was "selected, not elected". Trump is an "illegitimate president". And already... "___________ is not our president, this election was stolen!" rofl rofl


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Yet she conceded. Let me know when trump does the same. And in case you missed it, election deniers are making plans to undermine and withhold election certifications if their candidates lose. And it will get worse after 2022 as even more election deniers get into office. Just watch and learn.


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Hilarious.

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Feds warn that domestic violent extremists pose heightened threat to midterm elections

Federal officials on Friday warned that domestic violent extremists pose a heightened threat to the 2022 midterm elections, in a joint intelligence assessment sent to state and local officials and obtained by CNN.

The bulletin, released by the Department of Homeland Security, FBI, US Capitol Police and National Counterterrorism Center, says that perceptions of election fraud will likely result in heightened threats of violence.

The bulletin did not list any specific credible threats.

"Following the 2022 midterm election, perceptions of election-related fraud and dissatisfaction with electoral outcomes likely will result in heightened threats of violence against a broad range of targetssuch as ideological opponents and election workers," it states.

Enduring perceptions of election fraud related to the 2020 general election continue to contribute to the radicalization of some violent extremists, and likely would "increase their sensitivity to any new claims perceived as reaffirming their belief that US elections are corrupt," according to the assessment.

The joint federal assessment comes as election workers are increasingly concerned about physical threats to themselves and election infrastructure, and foreign actors seek to widen divisions in the United States.

"We assess that election-related perceptions of fraud and (domestic violent extremist) reactions to divisive topics will likely drive sporadic (domestic violent extremist) plotting of violence and broader efforts to justify violence in the lead up to and following the 2022 midterm election cycle," the bulletin states.

"The midterm elections are occurring at a time when the nation is experiencing what has been described as the most volatile, complex and dynamic threat environment in recent times," former DHS intel chief and counterterrorism coordinator John Cohen told CNN. "Communities across the nation continue to experience mass casualty attacks and other acts of targeted violence by individuals inspired by conspiracy theories."

Law enforcement on alert

Law enforcement across the country is on the lookout for threats to election officials, such as, intimidating behavior directed at voters, vandalism of ballot boxes and the potential of people visiting polling sites and questioning the legitimacy of voters, according to Cohen, who continues to work with state and local law enforcement.

Over past weeks, law enforcement agencies across country have been discussing steps that can be taken to mitigate these risks and ensure election is conducted in safe and secure manner, he said.

"The Department of Homeland Security regularly shares information regarding the heightened threat environment with federal, state, local, tribal, and territorial officials to ensure the safety and security of all communities across the country," a DHS spokesperson told CNN.

The assessment was released on the same day that Paul Pelosi, the husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, was attacked at the couple's home in San Francisco. The assailant who attacked him was searching for the speaker of the House, according to a source briefed on the attack.

As of Friday evening, authorities hadn't yet determined a motive for the attack.

Cohen said it should serve as a warning to Democratic and Republican elected officials that "they are being targeted by individuals who are motivated by extremist ideological beliefs."

On Thursday, the New York Police Department advised "elevated vigilance" in the closing days of the midterm election season, according to an NYPD bulletin obtained by CNN, though there are currently no credible threats to New York City polling sites, candidates or poll workers

There are three "primary threat vectors" concerning officials amid the midterm elections -- cybersecurity, mis- and disinformation and physical security, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said at a conference on Wednesday.

Election officials and federal agencies have been on heightened alert for any attempt by hackers to breach computer systems that support the election process.

Unidentified hackers twice in the last month have sent phishing emails to employees of an elections board in a Midwestern state, US officials told election officials on a Friday briefing, sources familiar with the call told CNN. The apparently run-of-the-mill cybercriminal activity was blocked and didn't result in any breach of election board computers, officials said.

The department has received reports of "a number of election officials" expressing concern about their physical security, Mayorkas said at the Homeland Security Enterprise Forum.

"And I must say in 2022, it's a very sad state of affairs when election officials are concerned about their physical security," he added.

Since Russia's interference in the 2016 election, a range of foreign governments have shown more of an interest in shaping US public opinion or spreading disinformation in advance of US elections, according to US intelligence officials.

When it comes to spreading lies, Mayorkas pointed to Russia, Iran and China, saying, "the disinformation that they spread, both pre- and post-election, undermine the integrity, the perception of the integrity of the elections, to sow further discord in our country."

Iran's level of aggressiveness in trying to interfere in the 2020 election -- in part by impersonating the far-right Proud boys -- surprised some US national security officials. China considered trying to influence the 2020 election outcome, but ultimately chose not to, according to a public US intelligence assessment.

Ahead of the 2022 midterm elections, Russian and Chinese government-affiliated operatives and organizations have amplified misinformation from Americans about the integrity of elections, senior FBI officials told reporters this month.

But it's physical security that has risen to the top of the list of concerns for election officials as conspiracy theories about voter fraud have boomed.

The FBI and sheriffs from across the country last week discussed the possibility of misinformation fueling violence at polling stations during the midterm elections, a sheriffs group told CNN.

Election workers have reported over 1,000 interactions, including death threats, with the public that they considered hostile or threatening to a Justice Department task force, but that is likely just a fraction of the threatening behavior that has occurred since 2020.

In response, federal officials are now offering state and local election officials training to "safely de-escalate" confrontations with voters that could turn violent, CNN first reported.

https://abc11.com/midterm-election-security-domestic-extremists-terrorist/12401210/


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Originally Posted by FATE
rofl


This, a few days after serial election denier is already denying 2024... just in case. rofl Wow.





Bush was "selected, not elected". Trump is an "illegitimate president". And already... "___________ is not our president, this election was stolen!" rofl rofl

Stop being so obtuse. Any idiot can see that MAGA is infecting our political system from top to bottom with election deniers who intend to do whatever it takes to make sure GOPers win. They will follow Donnie's lead on whatever, so don't pretend it's not a serious issue. You will be that guy going, wow, I never thought they would seriously start a civil war. Smart guy with a lying ass party. -


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Originally Posted by FATE
rofl


This, a few days after serial election denier is already denying 2024... just in case. rofl Wow.





Bush was "selected, not elected". Trump is an "illegitimate president". And already... "___________ is not our president, this election was stolen!" rofl rofl

Stop being so obtuse. Any idiot can see that MAGA is infecting our political system from top to bottom with election deniers who intend to do whatever it takes to make sure GOPers win. They will follow Donnie's lead on whatever, so don't pretend it's not a serious issue. You will be that guy going, wow, I never thought they would seriously start a civil war. Smart guy with a lying ass party. -

Election deniers like Hillary?

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Pathetic.


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$hillary is denying a future election and we're pathetic. thumbsup


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Pathetic.
I know. She was, and still is pathetic. Probably the first election denier ever.

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You knew I was talking about you. But nice try.


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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Election deniers like Hillary?

Hillary conceded. Let us know when trump does. You do comprehend that when someone concedes and election they are admitting they lost, right?


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