DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Fire Joe Woods

I've been reading these posts day after day and have been wondering what game some of you were watching. The statement that the Browns defense held the third-leading rusher Patterson to 38 yards on nine carries somehow is some type of achievement when they gave up 84 yards rushing to back up Allgeier at 8.4 YPC and his backup Huntley who had 56 yards rushing at 5.6 YPC. Considering the Browns are supposed to have the best RB duo in the NFL, the Browns 177 yards rushing at 5.1 YPC were outdone by the Falcons backups who had 202 rushing yards at 5.8 YPC. IMHO, that's not going into the game with a good defensive plan.

Holding Mariota to 7 completions on the surface may appear to be a successful outing but when you consider the Falcon's run game was chewing up 5.8 YPC, you probably wouldn't think they would have to pass much. Even more disturbing though is those 7 passes completed averaged 19.9 yards per reception. Considering the Falcons came into the game ranked 28th in passing yardage, how in the heck can anyone say the Browns were focused on stopping the pass when you're giving up almost 20 yards per reception to the 28th ranked passing offense? Consider this, the Browns gave up the most yards per reception in the NFL for Week 4 to the Flacons at 19.85 YPR. The closest teams to the Falcons were Chicago at 15.82 YPR vs NYG and Lawrence JAC at 15.81 vs PHI (FYI, the Browns had 11.1 YPR).

So you're saying the Falcons beat the Browns at their own game, running the ball. It does seem odd that everyone mentioned stopping Patterson without pointing out the actual story of the running game by the Falcons from a statistical standpoint. Which is why I suppose some people say stats are for losers. As you have aptly pointed out they can easily be manipulated to try and make a point that doesn't exist. Thanks for the information.

I have a couple of questions for you, and anyone else that would like to address it. I don't think you or many others will actually disagree.

We knew that the DT position was very weak. Even as weak as they were the browns had one starter out. At DE they had both starters out. As the stats Steve pointed out, the Falcons not only beat the Browns in total rushing yards but in YPC as well.

So the question is with the circumstances handed to Woods considering being extremely weak at DT and both DE's being out, how could anyone expect the Browns to be able to stop their running game? How does that rest on the shoulders of Joe Woods?

It doesn't rest on his shoulders, but his name is on the deed, it's his defense.

We can argue about talent, injuries, all that other stuff. At the end of the day there are certain things that are true... and they seem like ongoing problems with a different set of excuses to be made each week. It is true that we have a very hard time closing out games. It is true that we have a very hard time making adjustments within the flow of the game. It is true that the players constantly point at a certain problem that never seems to go away. It is true that we're a team that needs to play well defensively in order to be playoff worthy.

I don't look at all those truths and think we should fire Joe Woods, not even close. That would be about the dumbest thing we could do right now. I also don't think any of the above is unfair criticism of the team or the coach.

This Sunday, the latest example was as follows... Opposing team has trouble throwing the ball. Opposing team completely abolishes the pass. In one span they run the ball 18 of 19 consecutive plays. In 1.5 quarters they run the ball 22 times for 170 yards. During a 17 play stretch they never even sniff a 3rd down -- think about that! During this time there was one completed pass... It was for 42 yards and firmly punched the first nail in the coffin.

It looked like amateur hour. Again. It's been going on for two+ years.

And IMO that's accurate to the extent they chewed us up with their running game. But as with anything you'll only come out with the ingredients you have to put into your recipe. We certainly didn't have the ingredients to stop the running game. Maybe it's time people look closer at who is providing the ingredients?

I understand that there have been issues with blown coverages in the earlier games. But that issue was addressed in the Falcons game. Their pass game was virtually non existent. I also understand you don't have to pass when you can run all over your opponent. But when it comes to stopping the run and no matter whose name is on the deed, it's what caused the problem you have to figure out if you plan to fix what caused it. In the case of the Falcons game I don't see it as Woods being the problem.

When Hue was here - I was an advocate for keeping him. The roster was trash and I wanted consistency instead of the steady churn we had seen since Haslam's arrival. . . . Well what do you know, same roster, different coach and the results with the same players were wildly different.

Certainly I think there are times when we over value coaching. One phrase from Colin Cowherd that I liked (who I mostly think is a complete fake) - coaches with really good QB's generally look smarter. I can't remember who he was talking about - but it was a HC everyone thought was really good, went to a bad/average team and looked like chopped liver. It's possible some of us are overly critical of Joe Woods .... but to your point, I think we've seen some consistent and concerning (flat out alarming) issues that have plagued his entire tenure. Phil Snow is the Panthers D coordinator - I've watched 2 1/2 Panther games this year and his play calling has impressed me right thru each game. He has about the same talent (on paper) as the Browns should have. Maybe their LB group overall is more talented and for damn sure their DT's are (they have a former #1 draft pick who previously chronically under-performed as one example). . . He mixes it up, he's aggressive, then drops back, in the last game he ran three different zone coverages on three consecutive plays to confuse the QB, he has the safeties creep up, he has them drop back. He seems to run a D that I would like to see in Cleveland. . . . Oh and no confusion on any given play! How about that for a concept.

I'm not sure that there is a big mystery here. Stefanski is average and the results are in line with that. If he wants to be better than average, get better than average results. If he can't get better than average results the team should consider finding someone who can.

I'm tired of rooting for a loser. I'm especially tired of rooting for a loser that has this much talent on the roster. I'm tired of Stefanski saying he needs to learn. Stop saying that. You need to win more than you lose. Say that instead. Would be much more genuine.

The excuse making in here is insanity. Many people on here wouldn't allow excuse making for Baker. It shouldn't be allowed for Stefanski.

I've been wondering....At least it's out of the bag.

Someone let Vers know that Rish was actually including him in that quote.

Yep. Cat's out of the bag... excuses, or lack thereof, work both ways.

I'm honestly not following here.

Not sure how to respond to that


Surely I can't

communicate it to you

3 years of a similar Defensive scheme, 10+ preseason games and 36 regular season games and still communication issues?

Here's a communication Joe, your D sucks and you are not a good DC. How many times does he get to blame the players?

It's not a big deal. I have been wondering why you were so hard on Stefanski. I get why The Fabulous Baker Boys are, but they aren't to be taken seriously. You are typically a more fair-minded poster. I was considering that perhaps you just are hard on all coaches. Trying to remember how you were w/T. Lue? I know lead hated him. But, now it looks like you think Stefanski deserves criticism because Baker was criticized? Is that correct?

If so, that would include me. Hell, it might just be me alone. LOL. I'm not mad about it or anything. I'll just reply that I think Baker earned his criticism. I truly believe that Stefanski has done a tremendous job. He has had to deal w/a lot of crap. Covid, Baker, OBJ, Watson, etc. Constantly having to put out fires that were not his doing.

Rish, if you remember.......I did not like the hiring of Stefanski. I was against it and said so. However, I admit it when I am wrong. Stefanski has earned my trust and accolades. I'm not asking you to agree w/me. Your opinion is your own. I'm just saying I am not applying double standards here.

He's just now figuring that out!? I'd fire him today. Good thing we rested starters all preseason (again) while we worked out the communication issues in that joint practice.

Sending in two play calls is not unusual at all. Anyone want to know the "why" of it or do we just want to use this to pile on a coach? I'll try and explain if anyone wants to hear it.

I am certain that a two play call is nothing to do with reacting to how the offense lines up or if an audible is called. And while it might not be unusual - I think the amount of confusion shown by CLE this year is. And is it a lack of player talent or bad coaching that would result in a 2 play call being mis-understood by the players?

It doesn't matter if the issue is wearing the wrong damn cleats...(3) preseason games...(4) regular season games...the past (2) years...and he is just NOW figuring out what is the problem.

Maybe we need to get a smarter person to run things on D be it a player or a coach.

It's a consistent message that's easily understood. He now thinks of you as a Baker Boy.

Either the coach, the players, or both are complete meatheads if it is still this much of an issue three years in.

Apparently, SPARQ scores should be balanced a bit better with the Wonderlic when selecting players.

jc


fire woods now. he needs to go

I'm convinced there are several high school teams that could out-smart him... at least for the two quarters it takes him to adjust to anything.

There was plenty of help available and Berry just watches week after week this defense get shredded.. Dont'a Hightower, Joe Schobert, Blake Martinez, Suh, Richardson.. All would have come in and provided veteran leadership and calmed the front 7 issues down.

I am having a hard time defending Joe Woods.

Woods has to go. We were gashed by THE worst rushing team in the NFL. This smells exactly like the 1-31 Hue apologists wanting to wait and see what he does with better players. We've got a 39 game sample to see that Woods isn't getting it done.

I'm starting to feel the same way. I thought Hue was better than he was. I was wrong. I've said this before, and I'll repeat it. If Rex Ryan became our DC tomorrow, we would improve with just the players we have now. I understand we can't hire him for certain reasons. He's pretentious he would be disruptive, but his schemes would turn this D around. I don't think much of him as a HC but as a DC there aren't too many better just like his father. JMO

Rex Ryan won't be hired here. He is an egotistical jerk who would undermine our HC and try to take his job in a similar fashion Haley did w/Hue. The difference between the situations is that Rex would be a lot more loud and obvious about it.

If we make a change, I think it should be Fangio. But, I'd wait until the end of the season.

Agreed we can't hire him here as I stated and for the reasons I mentioned and you said. What I'm trying to see is that with a better DC and scheme we would be better on D with the guys we have now. I used Rex as an example.

Perhaps. I don't know, though. You guys could be right. But did you not see how many times we were in position and our guys missed tackles? That seems to be more of a personnel problem to me. But, I'm not positive about that.

Man, JOK is so overrated. He is weak. Guys break through his tackles all the time. He takes awful angles in coverage. Delpit can't cover his shadow. He is a good tackler, though. What does JJ ever do? Phillips gets consumed by blocks. Our interior line can't make plays even when Myles faces three guys on one freaking play.

I don't know......maybe they are thinking too much and it is Woods' fault. But, I know football and I'm seeing a lot of crappy plays by individuals on the field of play. Ask yourself how many tackles their RBs broke? Was that scheme? Or poor tackling?

Maybe we need a DC that will get in the guy's face's and kick them in their backside once in a while. We're soft and it shows. It's like the players don't care.

I think they care.

Maybe they just don't like the DC and his scheme.

Homes............???? Come on, man.

This should be filed under "plays to call when you need the other team to score as fast as possible so you can get the ball back".

Pitiful!

I understand, Homes. It's cool.