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But not the guy who signed a four year contract extension then a little over two months later refused to play for that team and demanded a trade, right?

Wilson stinks and he acts like he doesn’t. That’s a bad combo lol

The Press Conference after the game might have doomed him.

Jets quarterback Zach Wilson benched and will be inactive against Bears in Week 11, team will start Mike White

https://sports.yahoo.com/jets-quart...eam-will-start-mike-white-160813078.html

The Jets caught lightning in a bottle after beating the Browns and are riding a wave of confidence and momentum. Their QB is terrible and their coaching staff is awful. They'll be the talk of the off season because they had an unexpected season this year then fall on their faces next year. We know teams like that well. We root for one.

100% did... he needed to show some humility... maybe the benching will do him some good

Jets are loaded w/talent. They are a qb away from being excellent.

Great point, jay. I completely agree w/you.

I follow the Jets closely and have done so for the past three or four years. I agree they've added talent, but they aren't more talented than the Browns. As a matter of fact the Browns pushed them around all game until the last 1:30. Yet one sits at 6-4 and one sits at 3-7. The Jets didn't have a single player in the top 100 although certainly Gardner and Garrett will be there next year. I don't believe in Douglas or Saleh after watching them the last couple of years.

I mean this is all just opinion. I could be wrong. You could be right. They just seem like the epitome of a team that's caught a little lightning in a bottle and will revert back to their mean. They are definitely in need of a QB. Wilson is very bad.

I agree that we just have a difference of opinion. I wasn't saying you were wrong.

Hall is the real deal at RB. He will be back next year. They have a plethora of very good WRs and Wilson is going to be star if they find someone to throw him the ball. They have two good TEs. OL is not so great.

Defensively, they are loaded. That DL is excellent. They generate a lot of pressure. Like you said, Gardner is a star at corner. Their secondary is good overall. Mosley and Alexander are excellent LBers.

I think Douglas has been killing the drafts. Look at their draft class this year. Gardner, Garrett Wilson, and Hall just to start off with. That's freaking incredible. Saleh? I was down on him last year, but he seems to be galvanizing the team this year. I will say it's a gutsy move to bench Zach Wilson. Wasn't he the 2nd overall choice just a year ago?

Yeah, that lost the locker room

Yeah he should have. Not sure if it’s too late but well see

Chiefs Sign Notable Pro Bowl Defensive Tackle

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=85f1a93bb4714a388a58d145a12f9c61

Chiefs Sign Notable Pro Bowl Defensive Tackle
Story by Daniel Bates • 2h ago

The Chiefs are reportedly adding some reinforcements to their already stout defensive line.

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, "Longtime former Ravens’ DT Brandon Williams, who had been waiting for the right opportunity like Linval Joseph and Ndamukong Suh, is signing with the Chiefs practice squad with the idea of going to the active roster, per sources."

Schefter added, "Williams reunites with Chiefs DL coach Joe Cullen."

Standing 6-foot-1, 336-pounds, Williams has made a living as a run-stuffing nose guard and tackle for nine seasons. A Pro Bowler in 2018, the former Raven has been as solid as they come on the interior defensive line.

He should pair well with the dominant Chris Jones in the Chiefs front seven, as Kansas City looks to take a further stranglehold on the AFC.

If active for this week's game, Williams will return against Joe Burrow and the Bengals. But with several games to go, he could use some time to get back into football shape before the Chiefs' playoff run.

What?!

Another aging veteran on the downside of his career signs with a playoff team.....this is unheard of!

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/brandon-williams/7875?season=2021

That sound slike the perfect excuse why this FO has done nothing to address the DT position.

Funny how some franchises are committing to winning this YEAR
yet the Browns mantra has always been WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR.
Philly, KC, Baltimore , San Francisco, all made moves player
To attempt to reach the SB THIS YEAR.
Meanwhile Andrew Berry remains steadfast in not improving the
Roster this year as Browns wait till next year

I'd say signing Watson and moving on from a popular qb proves that they are committed to winning. No sense signing FA guys to one-yer contracts this year once they knew Watson was going to miss 11 games.

Yeah but 4 7 your still in the conversation for the playoffs
Signing a big bodied run stuffer or even a WR with quicks
Could have helped this team to make a late season playoff push

I see Vers point but I really believe if we had signed 2 of those DT's when it was obvious that stopping the run was a blatant weakness our record would be 2 or3 games better. I don't have a crystal ball but we would have won a couple of those close games and been right in the thick of the AFC North race. JMO

This statement would have to lead a person to believe that if true, the Browns never had any intention of putting a winning team on the field at any point in 2022 after August 18th. If that is the case, then Haslam needs to fire every damn one of them. Watson was suspended on August 18th for the 11-games. When do you think the FO decided to cash in this season by not signing any players for help this year? Certainly, it wouldn't have been before August 18th, would it? The post implies August 18th. Does this post imply that the Browns are incapable of a winning season unless Watson is playing? What kind of message, if true, does that send to the rest of the team?

I have to admit, I'm a very confused avid Browns fan when the self-proclaimed "Forum Football Geru" with all his experience and connections is telling me that the Browns HC/FO/Owner determined there was, and I quote: "No sense signing FA guys to one-yer contracts this year once they knew Watson was going to miss 11 games." Somebody please send Garrett, Chubb, and a few others a note asking about how this type of management decision makes them feel about a commitment to winning.

I think Vers is right. If they had gotten off to 5-1 start or something, and were just missing a guy like Suh, maybe they would have jumped. The players don't have the same mindset as the front office, and that is an okay thing. You want the players fighting until the last, but the front office, which wants to win, too, has to take a bigger picture approach.

Geru, eh?

He proclaims he's an earthy red color?

Thanks. steve and some others are just here to fight.

For the record, I strongly advocated the Browns sign a DT or even two early on in the season. I also wanted us to keep Jarvis. If not him, go out and get another WR to help. I'm not giving the "boys" in the FO a pass. I just think that once the season went downhill and they knew Watson was out for 11 games, they decided to not sign one of these guys that have recently signed w/teams that fighting to improve their playoff chances. It's my opinion and I am not even saying I'm right. But, of course, steve can't accept that. Again, he is here to fight.

I forgot to add that my main point is that it sure seems to me that the organization wants to win because going so hard after Watson and dumping a terrible--but popular--qb tells me they really do care about winning. It might not have been for this year, but they want to win. I wasn't even arguing w/iluv. Just voicing an opinion that folks could consider.

My humble apologies to the self-proclaimed "Football Geru." I hope you can understand my confusion when the highlighted part of your flawless opinion above clearly states that when the Browns knew Watson was going to miss 11 games which was announced by the league on August 18th. I couldn't read the unwritten part of your opinion where you say that you actually meant when the season was lost. You could clear up a lot of this misunderstanding by going on the record when you think the HC/FO decided to pack it in this year because the season was lost and not waste their time going after 1-year contract players that could have given the Browns a playoff opportunity. It would be interesting to see if Garrett, Chubb, Cooper and the others would agree with that supposed unwritten timeline of packing it in for the 2022 season. Just an avid fan wanting to know.

I think you should play every year to win. While I understand the FO has to strike a balance on spending and consistently have an eye toward the future, I don't believe the Browns FO found that balance. And neither did the coaching staff. And this is why the Browns have a consistent culture of losing. They don't prioritize winning. Too many excuses. Too much overthinking.

Imagine if Watson gets hurt early next season. Are we punting again and waiting until the following year? The NFL is the ultimate year to year league. Imagine if the Browns were 7-4 and Watson comes back, plays well, and the team gets into the playoffs...not only is it culture setting, anything can happen once you get into the dance. But the Browns blew that chance because the FO and coaching staff treat the team like one big science experiment. That's why the teams best player continuously speaks out. That's why the Browns are 4-7. The science experiment is more important than winning.

No aging veteran looking for a ring is going to join a sub 500 struggling team.

Delusional…. Just delusional…. Right up there with the Easter bunny and tooth fairy….

However, before that date they knew he was going to miss multiple games. The number wasn't known but the betting odds were at least 6-8 games. Heck, maybe they were reading your commentary and believed he might be suspended the entire season or longer.

Sweet, so you're saying that the Browns HC/FO were so forward thinking that even before August 18th they had come to the conclusion that the player's they had on the roster were incapable of winning unless Watson was on the field, correct? Even if the suspension was believed to be more in line with many (not just mine ) commentaries, that the Browns made the decision to pack it in even earlier than thought? It clears up a lot of the mystery surrounding the team since it was common knowledge going back to the June camp to even the most modest fan that the Browns had exposed weaknesses at DT, WR, and LB. Thanks for clearing that up because it was confusing what you "Stefanski Sleuths" and Berry guys thought the team was doing all summer and the early season.

I'll have to agree with the point that "no aging veteran looking for a ring is going to join a sub .500 struggling team" now as being somewhat delusional. However, the vast majority of us on this forum have been wondering out loud why nothing was being done by this HC/FO in June, July, August, September and even October when they knew they had problem positions and a guy like Suh was using social media to show interest in the Browns in an area where they had a major need. Add to that the common knowledge that if addressed as needed, the Browns would be an absolute shoe-in for the playoffs right now if they had been able to garner just a couple of more wins addressing those weaknesses since the single most important missing piece of which the entire ability of the team's 2022 success was rested upon is now available to the Browns.

Not to worry though, I have it from reliable sources that the Browns will address those perceived issues in 2023 because now, THE 230M WATSON CAN PLAY, and we can't lose. While it's just my opinion to think that the window is very small in the NFL and not taking advantage of the opportunity to win when you have the opportunity to win is a gamble no team should take - just look at the LARams last year to this year, our current HC/FO has clearly shown these last 2-years that they are smarter than the other 31 HC/FO's teams and packing it in early in 2022 will pay huge dividends for the Browns in 2023 because they have more carryover cap than any other team again this year. Not that enforcing the Browns Mission Statement the last 20-years has paid many dividends, this time they have it right - with the FO, HC, and franchise QB now in tow, what could possibly go wrong?

Long before the season started, pre-draft, we had many threads about greatest needs, and I was one of few who said interior Dline while the general opinion was WR.

No doubt I am not happy with the position group, but I am far from calling it the FO packing it in.

Face it my friend, you are just chapped with the whole Baker deal and Watson signing, so everything is wrong with the world when it comes to the Browns.

Your posting history tells much. You joined in 2013 and have 933 posts. In the last 6 months you probably have 600 of them. My only point is it is a hot topic for you, and you are extremely biased. You are acting like a jilted lover seeking revenge.

He's here to fight. Just like he, Pit, and 888 were on the Watson thread where they lied about what I said regarding Baker's injury. I called them on it and that post along w/actual videos of Watson's play on the field and their lies about what I said last year [btw---I was not even on the board] remain. I think ignoring the board bullies might be better than allowing them to hijack one thread after another.

Rish, I think they wanted to win. However, all these D-linemen have been signed w/in the last few weeks and we were not fighting to improve our chances of winning in the playoffs at that point. Look at the teams that signed guys like Williams, Joseph, and Suh. The Eagles and KC. They are probably the Super Bowl favorites right now.

I can't prove this, but I think if the Browns were in contention like Philly, KC, Buffalo, Miami, etc..........they would have made these late-season moves to improve the DT position.

Again, I think they should have done more to improve the position before the season. They made a mistake. However, it would be dumb to bring in a guy like Suh when your team is 3 and 7. I know you don't like the coaching staff and that's okay. It's your opinion, but I respect your opinion because you don't resort to lies and bullying like some others on here. However, please don't let them drag you down into the mud w/their crap.

I agree we would have made a move had we won a few more games.

There may have or is concern that Woods wouldn't know what to do with the added players, or more on point used them to make any sort of impact.

I'd say that it is the former. The 4-2-5 is widely used across the league. You just need at least 1 really powerful DT.

Speaking of DTs in the 4-2-5........I am not sure if everyone knows that one of the two is actually referred to as a NT, even though there are 4 d-linemen. The one interior guy is offset to one side or another of the Center, while the other plays in the C gap. Here is a visual if anyone wants to look. Scroll down in the article until you see


How to Run the 4-2-5 Defense

Stage 1: The Defensive Line

There is an image of the DL. Note the gap between the two DTs. That's why one of them is often referred to as a NT. Btw-------before one--or more--of the usual suspects accuse me of saying Joe Woods is a great DC w/an excellent scheme, I better say that is not what I am implying at all.

https://footballadvantage.com/4-2-5-defense/

I think there is some faulty and circular logic going on that avoids some basic facts.

1 - We would probably be in contention if said DT's had been signed and played and influenced the games we lost dues to piss poor defense.
2- We are miles under the cap - it's a factoid that keeps getting thrown around, what the hell use is being under the cap if you don't use it to sign one year impact rentals who can fill a giant hole? Especially knowing they don't impact your cap space in future.
3 - We have the DT's that Stefnaski and Woods wanted for their scheme and defense. . . it's not an accident that we ended up with who we have on the roster. At any point in time, even after the long suspension was announced, moves to improive the team can and should have happened.

This talk of "if we'd have been competitive a move would have been made is" a convenient rewrite of what happens, creating the narrative to fit the record ... The job of Berry, KS and Woods is to win. It's not like by being crap this year we get a better first round pick to aid the team 'once they have their QB' ...