DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Berry's Drafts

Berry has been in charge for 3 drafts now: 2020, 2021, and 2022.

Here is who he has drafted. Who have been really good, and who have not contributed at all? My comments are with each player.


2020 Draft:

Jedrick Wills Jr. (average to below average)
Grant Delpit (not playing well. I thought he would be better)
Jordan Elliott (so-so ..... average to below)
Jacob Phillips (so-so to below)
Harrison Bryant (OK, makes a few plays here are there)
Nick Harris (probably wil be gone next year)
Donovan Peoples-Jones (looks like a really good player, however, his yards/catch went from spectacular ... to meh this year)

2021 Draft:

Greg Newsome II (Quality starter, with breakdowns here and there, like most players)
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (could be great .... with a DL ahead of him)
Anthony Schwartz (should be gone. I had high hopes for him ..... but .. heh)
James Hudson (solid backup with some promise)
Tommy Togiai (has shown almost nothing good so far ... on a team desperate for a solid DT)
Tony Fields (is he still on the team>)
Richard LeCounte (gone)
Demetric Felton (meh)

2022 Draft: This is really too soon to tell ..... but so far only Emerson has stood out in a good way)

Martin Emerson
Alex Wright
David Bell
Perrion Winfrey
Cade York
Jerome Ford
Michael Woods II
Isaiah Thomas
Dawson Deaton

What do you think? For a guy who is supposedly a draft genius .... so far I see questionable, at best.

Eye opening when you lay it out like that. Time will tell, but as of now he arguably has not drafted a single player that could be labeled as "above average". His best trades were for Conklin, Clowney and Cooper (He must like the letter "C". Correct me if I'm missing someone). The other above average to elite players were brought here or drafted by the previous regime.

What we are seeing on the field isn't a drafting or talent issue. It's a coaching issue. Effort, communication, knowing where to be, being motivated, not wanting to lose...we see the opposite of this every week. That's not a talent issue. I'm not saying Berry is doing a good job. What I am saying is we don't know because of how poorly the players are coached.

These players would all be better with a better staff minus Callahan.

The management of the defense is absurd. We’ve spent a TON of assets and capital into the defense (Garrett, Clowney, Ward, Newsome, Delpit, Greedy, Harrison, JOK, Phillips, etc) .. I mean, these are supposed to be above average dudes. They look AWFUL.

I feel like we are about to start doing with Stefanski the same thing many did with Baker. Throw away the obvious answer (they are not good) and start pointing fingers at everyone else. Playcalling, receivers running the wrong routes, etc. Trust what your eyes are telling you. Watch other football besides the Browns. If you (not you specifically) do that, the answer is staring you in the face. Stefanski is a really poor head coach. His defensive staff doesn't have the players ready to play. They have quit on him. He can't motivate them. He can't get their maximum effort out of them. Their play reflects their leadership.

At this point in time, his drafts are not looking very good. Some want to make everything about coaching, but I see flaws in some of these guys. Real flaws that have nothing to do w/coaching. The guys who really annoy me are Delpit, Elliot, Phillips, and JOK. All of those guys have received love, but they all have major issues. I would add Schwartz to that list because he sucks, but he never gets any love anyway. LOL

Delpit can't cover. His reactions are way too slow. He should be a box safety.

Elliot has a hard time getting off blocks. He often gets turned sideways and that creates holes.

Phillips is another guy who can't shed blocks and his play recognition is slow.

JOK has talent, but he's weak. Not sure how many missed tackles he has, but it has to be a lot. Also, he and Phillips do not get deep enough on drops. Lack of intelligence, it looks like to me.

Schwartz? LOL........I was watching the end of the game and the ball just richoted off of him. Have you ever seen or played racketball? You know how the small round ball just shoots off the walls in that game? That's what it looked like yesterday. It was utterly amazing.

You hate to be so blunt, but it appears like Delpit is not smart (or at least he is slow to process and recognize). Phillips is on ice skates .. you ever see him try to recover? Lol it’s comedy hour

I've been saying this all year...we have a Berry problem more than coaching..good players can hide bad coaching by just being better than those around them, they find a way to make an impact. Berry has brought in ZERO of those guys. You're very kind with some of your assessments like with Bryant, JOK, Emerson, and Elliot.. some of those guys are the lowest rated in the league, that isn't coaching. But beyond the draft, look at what he's done in the offseason and it gets worse, mortgages the future for a QB that hasn't played in 2 years, has a ton of ?? around if he can return to form and makes the contract 100% guaranteed and invites a ton of eyes based on his moral character. (as if this team wasn't hard enough to root for). You guy 100m to a guy who has been the biggest liability in the secondary this year, never was all that great out side of his rookie season. Gets rid of Richardson with no plan, does nothing to fix the front 7 with alot of players available in the offseason that would have helped alot.. Let Landry walk with no plan, Cooper was a gift but he still disappears alot, and you aren't replacing Landry with Cooper, Landry was never meant to be the number one. You lost a good vocal leader on offense that played with fire, we don't have that guy now on either side of the ball. But this doesn't mean coaching isnt an issue, Woods should be gone, no doubt, there are much better candidates out there that have been alot more successful than him. Move on and stop wasting time, Same with Priefer. Stefanski is where it gets tricky, he's a serviceable playcaller that seems to come up with decent game plans most of the time, makes some real head scratchers at times (all do) but the biggest issue is with his situational playcalling. His feel for the game is meh. But he's not the OC, he's the HC, and in that job, he's failed miserably.. Easy camp, hands off approach, unable to motivate.. all bad traits for a HC. He's is not tough smart and accountable. Worst thing we can do is keep this staff for the sake of keeping it. Gone is the 3 year minimum to turn it around.. It doesn't take that long if you got the right guy, look at the eagles and the Giants, and even the Jets. Coaching matters. But you have to have something to work with. Get a football guy in that has worked for teams that win consistently. Stop acting like being from Harvard is a good measuring stick.. Name the last harvard player worth a damn in the NFL..Get guys that have been part of perennial winners. That used to be how it was done, Depo has to go too, he's got too much of Jimmy's ear telling him to trust the process, well its a joke. Or scouting and drafting process is producing practice squad fodder

It's more than just the players. Coaching - most especially on D - is woeful and making players worse. Good coaches can take chicken poop and find ways to compete ... we are compounding weaknesses not coaching them or scheming them up.

j/c...

I posted this in the other Berry thread, but worth re-posting here. Discusses Berry's overall roster construction. From the OBR...

Four Lessons For Cleveland Browns GM Andrew Berry
By Jack Duffin Oct 14, 8:40 AM

In his first three years since becoming Cleveland Browns General Manager, Andrew Berry has been a positive change for the franchise. This doesn't mean he is infallible from criticism though and this article is looking at what improvements can be made. This isn’t a piece where we are going to say he should have drafted x player rather than y because the draft is incredibly unpredictable. It is the wide roster construction discussion where we look at decisions the Front Office has made and how they put together their 53-man roster.

Roster construction isn’t a one size fits all approach it is much more like an art form where different versions can result in a successful outcome. Plus it is important to not simply say these three teams won the Super Bowl recently did x so we must do that because it doesn't mean that one thing was the key factor in achieving the result. You only have to look at the praise the Rams got for their all-in approach of trading two first round picks for players but no one quite wants to champion the Texans, Saints and Seahawks for similar aggressive short term philosophies. The goal of any General Manager in my eyes is to build a team than can consistently get to the playoffs, once you are there luck can play a significant factor. If you can you get to the playoffs enough times then one year you might win the Super Bowl rather than go all in for one season and have to blow it up two years down the line.

Unsurprisingly the focus of these four lessons are going to be on the defensive side of the ball, mainly because the Cleveland Browns have been performing at an incredibly high level offensively. I don’t think anyone would have predicted five weeks into the season that the Browns would be PFF’s number one graded offense and have efficiency metrics that are more or less all top 5 depending on the model you use.

Lesson 1 - Edge Defenders

If you are looking for the best edge defender tandems in the NFL so far this season then you are likely between three teams, Browns, Bills and Cowboys. Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, Von Miller, Gregory Rousseau, Micah Parsons and Demarcus Lawrence are all playing at an incredibly high level. But the edge room requires more than two players because it isn’t like a quarterback, offensive line or defensive backs where they can play 100% of snaps so what happens when these players aren’t on the field.

So far Garrett and Clowney have played 56% of snaps between them meaning there are nearly half the amount of snaps where someone else has been out there. That should be no surprise with a player like Clowney as his entire NFL career has been littered with injuries. It is negligence from a Front Office to sign a player like Clowney without a plan B ready for when he misses time.

Outside of the starting tandems, here are all the edge’s PFF grades that have played in at least 20% of snaps:

Browns - 59.4, 42.5
Bills - 89.9, 64.5, 58.7
Cowboys - 74.6, 65.6, 64.3

It is obvious from the list above where the Browns' issues lie compared to other teams and that is with their lack of good players. They have lost Chase Winovich but I don’t think anyone truly expected him to be a difference maker and his one game graded out as a 42.4 per PFF.

Myles Garrett is paid $25m a year which is a massive investment and he is performing to that level, but when you have a player like that you need to think about what that does to the rest of the defensive line room. Rather than spread the talent around and build a room with plenty of pass rushers Andrew Berry decided to give Clowney $10m which puts all the pressure on two edges to play all the time and carry the defensive line.

A much smarter process would have been to bring in two players such as Jerry Hughes and Melvin Ingram for the price of Clowney who can both get pressure on a consistent basis plus allow for a rotation during games and for covering for injuries. Maybe they tried this route and weren’t able to get them signed, we will never know but there were other options like Ogbonnia Okoronkwo who could have added to the overall room.

Lesson 1 - Make sure the defensive line isn’t top-heavy which in turn removes the ability to consistently get pressure on the quarterback.

Lesson 2 - Defensive Tackles

Philosophically spending less at defensive tackle and linebacker is smart roster construction in a modern pass heavy league. People wanting a big move at defensive tackle all offseason weren’t willing to mention where the resource should come from, is it less free agency spending so no Clowney/Johnson or is it less draft capital so no JOK/Newsome/Delpit. The draft and the salary cap is about opportunity cost, nothing is impossible in a silo but if you do A then it will mean you can’t do B.

Regardless of being cheap at defensive tackle, that doesn’t make Jordan Elliott a starter in the NFL. Unfortunately we will never know who was the driving force behind the decision, was it the Front Office or someone in the coaching staff banging the table for him. Based on what we saw last season Sheldon Day seemed the only defensive tackle who belonged on an NFL field, and that wasn’t even as a starter so it always felt like two free agents. Bryan has been okay but he needed to have someone else next to him rather than a player who didn’t deserve rotation level snaps.

There is nothing wrong with giving Jordan Elliott a shot to make a step forward but you need to make sure there is a backup plan. It felt like he would have training camp to prove it, since so many veterans were on the open market they could easily pick someone up at good value if they needed a proven quality. I struggle to believe he showed anything again Bitonio and Teller that made the Front Office consider him worthy.

You can get excited as a Front Office for what a player could become and that is a large part of the draft cycle and finding talent to sign to the team. But these players should be depth on the roster until they have proven that they can be starters. Penciling someone like Jordan Elliott in to start was nothing short of negligence when it comes to roster building.

Lesson 2 - You need to have 22 starters that are at least competent NFL players and this has to be proven talent and not pure projections based on something we haven’t seen to date.

Lesson 3 - Safeties

The Cleveland Browns currently have one free safety under contract and that is Richard LeCounte who is on the practice squad. They have been using John Johnson there but it seems to be a bad use of resources to add a player and then expect him to play a different role than the one you have seen him succeed in.

They made a sizable investment in John Johnson of $24m for the first two years. He had been graded as an elite safety by PFF in 2018 and 2020 so it looked like he was set to thrive wherever he arrived but instead his performance was poor. Despite a slow start, week 12 onward last season it looked like he had finally turned a corner. It might have been against poor teams but we also played poor teams the first four weeks this season so to see his level of play fall off a cliff is worrying.

With Johnson set to get cut next offseason saving the team $9.75m, it is the perfect time for Andrew Berry to go into free agency and find a true free safety. They are unlikely to be after a superstar despite there being good options every year as they will want to be smarter with their investments, I expect to see someone earning around $5m a year signed. At the same time they probably draft someone and look to develop them for the role as well.

Lesson 3 - Make sure you have all 11 starting spots filled by players than can do the job and if you are going to make a large investment in free agency then don’t be asking them to do something different to what they have proved they can do.

Lesson 4 - Rotation

We know from the Paul DePodesta Guardrails, “Don’t Pay For Depth” but I think there is a grey area between starters and depth that needs to be addressed. You have your 11 starters on the defense and since we are a nickel team that is going to be 2 edges, 2 defensive tackles, 2 linebackers, 3 corners and 2 safeties.

Then depending on the scheme, play call and opposition you have two very common changes, that is to bring in an additional linebacker for a ‘base’ look or a safety for a ‘dime’ package. This means both of these players should be reliable. You need to have faith in them to go out and play a meaningful level of snaps each week.

There are two other important rotation players on the defensive line who should be able to perform at a good standard and that is one more edge and one more defensive tackle. This is because it is a pure rotation position, this isn’t like Madden where you can expect the same player to contribute a 100% snaps. For Myles Garrett to keep him pass rush efficiency as high as possible he needs to have breaks on the sideline.

So overall we are looking at four players that need to be at a good standard for the defensive rotation, the lineup entering the season:

Edge - Chase Winovich
Defensive Tackle - Tommy Togiai
Linebacker - Sione Takitaki
Safety - Ronnie Harrison

For me the only one on the list I have confidence in was Takitaki and that is as a SAM linebacker next to Anthony Walker and JOK.

Depth has a role, these are players who need to step up if an injury occurs but you can’t have a roster full of talent everywhere you look. Lots of these players will be kept on the basis they have a good upside and can start in the future or they produce on special teams.

Lesson 4 - The defense needs to have 15 good players, outside of the starters you need 4 reliable options who can step in and play when called upon. This gives the defensive coordinator full flexibility to use his scheme rather than trying to mask issues.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...s-GM-Andrew-Berry-195339470/#195339470_4

We are so soft up the middle it’s insane. We have the worst DT, LB, and S in the NFL

Of course, there's flaws in the players. That's why you have coaches to correct those flaws. Here's the caveat about that, those same flaws were there in 2021 and for some in 2020. If that is a fact, which it is, who's responsible for a) fixing those flaws or b) taking responsibility for them still being on the team. Absolutely this is about coaching. It was about coaching last year too.

Now in 2022, it's the players again that are being singled out and blamed. Forum posters are now questioning the commitment to winning by players and the appearance of just playing for a paycheck. These exact same things were pointed out last year but ignored because the whistle blower was so disliked. The common dominator in both instances - the coaching staff and FO.

Maybe Stefanski should read this article explaining what his HC position expectations are:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1666834-a-detailed-list-of-an-nfl-coachs-responsibility

It would certainly appear that Stefanski isn't close to embracing an NFL coach's responsibility.

According to Sean Payton:

Payton says one of the biggest challenges for the HC in the locker room is making sure every player is getting the message, not just veterans.

"I think it's one of the great things about what we do is we're around young men that like to compete and you don't ever take that for granted. You're looking for way to really maximize their skills, how they do, how they perform. Just like a teacher would," Payton said.

It would certainly help Stefanski in his role if he followed the guidelines and the Sean Peyton coaching style because what he's doing now isn't working.

Watch Delpit's coverage on this play [22] and watch how slow JJ [43] is to react. I see nothing wrong w/the scheme on that play. It's about players who are just not very good against the pass.

For those X/O guys on here, was that coverage by JJ3 correct? Should he be helping that much on the WR or is he just in charge of an area of the field?

Cover 1. You see 85 going in motion and Delpit [22] following him across the formation. Newsome had #11. JJ was the guy who was supposed to read the field as the deep safety. No route was run on the other side. Newsome had good coverage. Delpit got beat almost immediately. JJ should have recognized that way, way faster than he did. Of course, Delpt was the most responsible, but our two safeties are very slow to react to the play. Delpit is worse, but that play shows how slow JJ was to react. This has been an ongoing issue this year. Ask yourself this..........how many times have you see either Delpit or JJ provide deep help to our corners and break up a pass?

Great thanks for explaining. i can clearly tell that Delpit was the main culprit, but you raise a good point: our lack of FS play (forever it seems) is SO glaring, even to a layman like me

That is why I have an issue with this staff and Berry, JJ3 was graded by PFF when he was with the Rams as an elite Safety, JJ3 split his time with them between SS and FS but he graded out much better when he played the SS role yet here we play him almost exclusively at FS.

At the beginning and end of the day, Joe Woods is responsible for that...and/especially it's not like it's been a one-off thing here.

Just .02. It SEEMS like Stefanski is Head Coach in name only. Like he and Woods operate independently and answer to Haslam. Berry controls the roster and answers to Haslem. An analytics driven system that doesn't account for momentum, emotion, game flow etc. Making coaches and players robots. Berry SEEMS to draft and sign by a stat sheet only, not accounting for a players heart and drive. A team of robots with no leader. Over 50 yrs of fandom and I've now become a robot fan that barely cares if I watch a game or not. This is the first year ever that I've not watched some games. It SEEMS I can't care anymore.

Almost stopped reading after the line "has been a positive change" yeah, no he hasn't.. see the last two years. The Depo tidbit is why he needs to go, that might be the case in baseball but in the NFL, having quality depth at important positions make or break seasons, and that quality don't come free... yet we paid 10m a year for a backup qb and wouldn't use him when the starter was out looking like a crash test dummy.. So which is it

I read something similar to this awhile back. The one I read talked about bringing in Ingram and Justin Houston for about the same amount of money as we are paying Clowney. That would have given us two guys to rotate at the spot opposite Myles. What makes it worse is that Clowney hardly ever practices and he misses a ton of games. The guy is talented, but his lack of "want to" frustrates me to no end.

Note: My posts on this thread have been negative, but in no way do I want Berry fired. Just trying to stay on topic about the job Berry has done thus far. I think we have guys in our FO and coaching staff that are on the same page and that's a good thing. Mistakes will be made. Just pointing out my thoughts on a few of them. However, I like Berry overall.

Berry in the draft next year needs to hit some home runs.
But without a 1st RD pick, finding a HR in the 2nd RD becomes
That much more difficult.
I will venture to say Dorsey drafted better and made better player
Transactions.
I find it humorous how Berry was being lauded as a great GM
After his 1st 2 drafts.heck some said he was the best GM
In the AFC North.
He might be good at giving contract extensions
But his drafting is very subpar.
Very few of his draft picks in the 1st 2 drafts really
Dominated in college...
Wills did. So how are they supposed to become playmakers
At the NFL level?

Sometimes it looks like not all our players are fully focused.

Maybe our playing book is too complicated?
Maybe we give our players so much instructions that it slows down their thinking process and creates decision conflicts?
Maybe our coaches don’t encourage those who’re insecure or have problems with fully following instructions to trust their own instincts?
Maybe our recruiting has focused to much on physical metrics and forgot intangibles like personal drive, passion for the game and pride to not lose.

There is a lot of uncertain factors but with competent coaches we should at least sorts some of our problems out before the season ends.

2020 Draft:

Jedrick Wills Jr. (Semi-Bust)
Grant Delpit (Bust)
Jordan Elliott (Bust)
Jacob Phillips (Bust)
Harrison Bryant (Bust)
Nick Harris (Semi-Bust)
Donovan Peoples-Jones (Semi-Bust)

2021 Draft:

Greg Newsome II (Good)
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (Semi-Bust)
Anthony Schwartz (Do I really have to answer?)
James Hudson (Semi-Bust)
Tommy Togiai (Bust)
Tony Fields (Bust)
Richard LeCounte (Bust)
Demetric Felton (Bust)

2022 Draft:

Martin Emerson (Serviceable so far)
Alex Wright (Too early)
David Bell (Too early)
Perrion Winfrey (Bust)
Cade York (Ugh)
Jerome Ford (Too early)
Michael Woods II (Too early)
Isaiah Thomas (Too early)
Dawson Deaton (Who?)

Since 2020 we have 1-2 solid players drafted.

This isn't exactly fair IMO, because I don't care who is drafting, anything beyond the third-rounder is always a shot in the dark IMO. And it does not show all the pieces he has brought in via FA and trades. A good GM does as much as he can in the draft, then fills in the holes. Barry has been average or better when that is all considered IMO. But hey, it's the season to blame and hate, so applying a little heat to his seat wouldn't hurt.

i think his draft will look better when DW plays.

minus felton. dude is a bum.

Berry has failed to build a Super Bowl caliber roster.

I would think that the point is "what the hell is Berry doing?" There was no question that in 2021 we had the worst DT's in the entire NFL. It also wasn't a secret that our WR room was bare and needed attention. This was known in mid-January and only a person who had never seen a football game didn't know it was an issue. So, now Berry had FA, the draft and trade opportunities to address the issues. He traded for WR Cooper that could be a plus but any player that's let go by two different teams gives me reason to be very cautious. He does nothing in FA and then waits until the 3rd round pick 99 to draft WR Bell and the 4th round pick 108 to draft DT Winfrey. Fast forward to 2022 season - weak azz WR group, worst DT's in the NFL 2-years running, and constant praise for being a GM that's biggest moves is resigning and overpaying players he had nothing to do with coming to Cleveland and mortgaging the future of the franchise for a sexual predator QB.

TBH, I think he knows we need better DTs. But you only have so much draft capital and cap space. I'd go so far as to say I bet his plan was to add better until the DW trade debacle trashed the long-term plan. I think the problem is much more coaching oriented. So, for now, I give Berry a pass. I think he's been decent at it so far. And unless some young draft guru suddenly becomes available, as GMs go, he's still above average.

GM Mike Tennabaum said that if you draft 3-4 meaningful players, then it’s a really good draft. I also heard one gm - maybe Ernie Accorsi or Ron Wolf say that if a gm were to hit on 30 percent of his draft picks that they’d build them their own wing in the hall of fame.
I’ll give Berry 2/14 for his first two drafts (Wills and Newsome) that’s 14%. I can maybe give a nod that DPJ and JOK are meaningful- maybe just give him a “1” for those two combined. That’s 3/14 for 21%.

Compare this to John Dorsey’s first draft where he hit on 3/9 picks (Baker, Chubb, Ward) I won’t count his 2nd draft because he didn’t have a first rounder, just like Berry’s draft last year.

Take a look at Sashi’s 2017 draft: Myles, Njoku, Larry Ogunjobi.

So, yeah I guess based on this research, I’ll subscribe to the notion that Berry isn’t doing a good job. However, when Deshaun starts playing, it could change a lot as far as production of receivers goes. We’ll see…

2017 (Shashi)
1st Round (#1): DE Myles Garrett (Starter)
1st Round (#25): S Jabrill Peppers (starter)
1st Round (#29): TE David Njoku (starter)
2nd Round (#52): QB DeShone Kizer (not in nfl)
3rd Round (#65): DT Larry Ogunjobi (starter)
4th Round (#126): CB Howard Wilson (not in nfl)
5th Round (#160): OT Roderick Johnson (not in nfl)
6th Round (#185): DT Caleb Brantley (not in nfl)
7th Round (#224): K Zane Gonzalez (starter)
7th Round (#252): RB Matthew Dayes (not in nfl)

5 starters and 5 not in NFL


2018 (Dorsey)
First round:
Mayfield (1), (starter barely) Ward (4).(starter)
Second round: Corbett (33), (starter) Nick Chubb (35). (starter)

Third round:
Chad Thomas (67). (not in nfl)

Fourth round: Antonio Callaway (105). (not in nfl)

Fifth round:
Avery (150). (backup)

Sixth round:
Damion Ratley (175), (not in nfl) Simeon Thomas (188). (not in nfl)


(throw in Landry trade)

4 starters 1 backup 4 not in the NFL

2019 (Dorsey)
No. 46: Greedy Williams, CB, LSU (starter)
No. 80: Sione Takitaki, LB, BYU (starter because of injury)
No. 119: Sheldrick Redwine, S, Miami (out of NFL)
No. 155: Mack Wilson, LB, Alabama (starter)
No. 170: Austin Seibert, K, Oklahoma (starter)
No. 189: Drew Forbes, G, Southeast Missouri State (backup)
No. 221: Donnie Lewis, CB, Tulane (injured backup)

4 starters 1 out of NFL 2 backups
(OBJ trade)



we have a good team because of our drafting from 2016 until 2019 not beause of our drafting in 2021 or 2022

Oh, ... They'll figure it out.

Did you know, the 2 pt conversion wasn't always a thing in the NFL.

When the Browns and Broncos played in the AFC Championship game in I985 ish and there was "the drive"

The best the Broncos' could do was TIE because they trailed by 7 and the 2 point conversion was not an option in the NFL,
it was legal in college football at the time but rarely used iirc.

Think how bad the D will be
If Berry,
is allowed to bring in 8-I0 MORE

guys who can't play, can't play but, they fit some metric, some analytic,
but
If the team just gives away roster spots to whomever ... decides is supposed to be the answer
whether they can play or not?

If Berry can / is allowed to give away 8 more roster spots and they can never cut a draft pick for sucking at football

then Whew, it will really get ... Wow.
But

IF they can get things to improve? ... emm,
I think Jacob Phillips is solid
always thought Jacob Phillips was solid, nothing wrong with Jacob Phillips

There is a lot of immaturity and ego when it comes to a lot of NFL players, and that stuff gets exacerbated when teams lose. That’s when the blame game starts and the pouting takes hold. Our franchise has been riddled with it since 1999 and it’s an infection. It’s why it is so difficult to get things turned around … the constant stench of losing has stained the building, personnel, front office, etc. And when the losing begins again during the season, morale dips, effort declines, and everyone goes into self preservation mode.

Just my opinion, but I think that the notion that this team has a ton of internal issues and has given up has been manufactured by overly dramatic fans. It might get to that point, but the constant obsession w/firing people is leading to people creating stories in their own minds. It's not uncommon amongst fan bases and media members, but it's why all coaches preach that you have to block out the outside noise. Bill Belichick was preaching that stuff way back when he was here and the local media and fanbase wanted him fired.

Speaking of Bill Belichick.........I was going to put this in the Postgame thread, but I could not post in that thread because of all the whining, griping, and emotion. It's not even football talk at this point. Anyway, this cracked me up. The Browns should have recovered the onside kick. Refs ruled otherwise, but the D forces a quick 3 and out. NE punts and Rodgers fumbles the punt. I think the dude who recovered it is an undrafted FA. He thought it gave NE the win and would have tied Belichick w/George Halas for the second most wins in NFL history. The look on Belichick's face was priceless. I mean.......priceless.

One parting shot for some perspective..........our genius fans and media members thought that Belichick sucked as a coach and vilified him beyond belief.

Watching the Browns last week was rough.
Watching the Browns this season has been rough.
Watching the Browns the last two plus decades has been rough.

It is safe to say that Dorsey was by far the best GM we have seen since the return. His depature probably had more to do with Haslem than results.
Tough to say Sashi did a horrible job, when he collected a lot of the draft capital Dorsey had. as well as slashed the salary to help Dorsey to attract some free agents.

Maybe a couple of these players pan out. I like a couple players but the only above average player I have seen is Newsome. Wills has played better than he grades out in my opinion but nowhere near the beast we expected. Ward has been more of a liability than all pro. Clowney should have not been given $10 mil until he can play more than 10 games a season.

Now I feel most peoples biggest gripe is how the QB situation was handled. This is not about Baker. This is about giving up 3 first round picks for a QB that has not played and can not play. On top of guaranteeing said QB $100 mil. Now those 3 first round picks could help at the DT position rather trade or pick. The kings ransom seems like a stretch for me. Maybe when DW gets back and wins start to add up Berry can sit back and smile. My guess is he will be gone before that happens.

As a new member of the “overly dramatic fans’ club I can safely say that the authentic Cleveland Browns supporters who complain has every right to say whatever they want without being questioned by Top Browns. Questionable decisions. Underachieving players and coaches. Excuses. Bad results.

W t f else should they be dramatic about! The Elf?

I understand your position, but I see it differently.

I actually am giving Berry a ton of credit for having the vision, the resolve, and the balls to acquire Watson. The game has evolved to the point where you need your QB to win you games and elevate others. The Browns were never going to win it all w/Baker. They will never win it all w/Jacoby. They would never have won it all if they had traded for a guy like Cousins, Trubisky, Wentz, etc. Berry gave up a ton for Watson and he has received a ton of negative attention because of Watson's off the field issues. I'm not saying that acquiring Watson guarantees the team winning Super Bowls, but it gives the team a legitimate chance. There are just too many outstanding young QBs in the AFC. Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, and Burrow. Now, the Browns have one that compete w/any of those guys. Thus, Berry gets major points from me.

NFL BEST PFF PLAYER GRADES through 6-weeks:


SCALE:
100 - 90 = Elite level of play
85-89 = Pro Bowl level of play
84-70 = Starter level of play
69-60 = Backup level of play
59-0 = Replaceable level of play

[i]NFL BEST PFF GRADES OFFENSE:

QB - Allen, BUF - 90.8 - ELITE - Wyoming - 2018
RB - Chubb, CLE - 88.4 - PRO BOWL - Georgia - 2018
RB - Jacobs, LVR - 87.4 - PRO BOWL - Alabama - 2019
WR - Hill, MIA - 90.5 - ELITE - Western Alabama - 2016
WR - Diggs, BUF - 90.3 - ELITE - Maryland - 2015
WR - Kupp, LAR - 87.2 - PRO BOWL - Eastern Washington - 2015
TE - Kelce, KCC - 88.2 - PRO BOWL - Cincinnati - 2013
C - Humphrey, KCC - 84.9 - STARTER - Oklahoma - 2021
G - Bitonio, CLE - 85.7 - PRO BOWL - Nevada - 2014
G (tie) - Lindstrom, ATL - 85.3 - PRO BOWL - Boston Coll - 2019
G (tie) - Teller, CLE - 85.3 - PRO BOWL - Virginia Tech - 2018
T - Thomas, NYG - 90.2 - ELITE - Georgia - 2020
T - Slater, LAC - 84.0 - STARTER - Northwestern - 2021
K - Butker, KCC - 86.7 - PRO BOWL - Georgia Tech - 2017

NFL BEST PFF GRADES DEFENSE:
CB - Jones, NEP - 90.5 - ELITE - Arizona St - 2022
CB - Ward, SFO - 87.0 - PRO BOWL - Middle TN - 2018
CB - Surtain II, DEN - 86.7 - PRO BOWL - Alabama - 2021
S - Curl, WAS - 89.8 - PRO BOWL - Arkansas - 2020
S - Gipson Sr, SFO - 84.4 - STARTER - Wyoming - 2012
LB - Wagner, LAR - 89.8 - PRO BOWL - Utah St - 2012
LB - Davis, NOS - 86.3 - PRO BOWL - Arkansas St - 2012
LB - Milano, BUF - 83.1 - STARTER - Boston Coll - 2017
DT - Jones, KCC - 93.2 - ELITE - Mississippi St - 2017
DT - Donald, LAR - 91.3 - ELITE - Pittsburgh - 2014
Edge - Garrett, CLE - 93.1 - ELITE - Texas A&M - 2017
Edge - Crosby, LVR - 90.6 - ELITE - Eastern Mich - 2019
P - Pinion, ATL - 87.7 - PRO BOWL - Clemson - 2015

Let's hope you don't have to revise your perspective on the move to acquire Watson .... as recently as 12 months ago you coveted Russell Wilson as a top 3-5 QB in the NFL. You've waxed lyrical on these boards about how elite he is ... but this season he is clearly done, and you have revised your opinion of him and trashed him based on rumors of him having privileges in the locker room. If the rumors are true then he's not the sort of player anyone would want in a locker room - if the rumors aren't true you are trashing a player for unfounded tittle-tattle. Either way - if you'd had your way as recently as 12 months ago Wilson would be a Brown.