DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Woods and the Defense

And he weighs 290#. That's never good.

We're tanking for a high second round pick??

I believe this part about part of the crew that spends way too much time at the club. I think it's an ongoing problem w/some of these guys and Winfrey seems to top the list, but it was especially evident yesterday. I mentioned it on the Game Recap thread that S. Beach provides a lot of distractions and players in all sports have fell victim to its charms. The Browns D played like they did too much clubbing on Saturday night.

I don't think they were out Saturday night because there is a team curfew and room checks in place the night before a game when traveling for an away game. I do know a lot of NBA teams catch the South Beach flu because they can be out late since they do not play until the following evening. In fact, I believe an NBA team went down a day ahead so the players could get it out of their system, lol.

My guess is that Bone was correct when he was skeptical about Winfrey being held out all week with an "illness."

From my understanding, Winfrey and some Browns players are regulars at the Barley House and Town Hall in Cleveland. Both places have been hot spots for players over the years. Manziel was a regular.

I won't be surprised if Winfrey is waived at some point this season. He's clearly not learning any lessons.

I think you need to keep about 5 starters on D. Call Zimmer now, and get rid of Woods as quick as you know. Find out what Van Pelt is doing and dust him off.

Remind me, who are we tanking for? Without picks, I mean . . . .

I’d keep JOK, Taki, Garrett, Newsome, Ward, Emerson … crickets?

Not losing track of the thread's title, I wanted to suggest that we dawgs look at the trend that is Woods as his defense is called. Looking up? Cratering? Is the roster better this season than last? Playing hard or slacking? Fundamentals being executed like tackling, coverage, run D, pressure? Do they look prepared and are they motivated to go to war at gametime?

Lot of answers to too many questions. Our trend is down. It looks worse; we seem indifferent. If only we had some draft picks, we could at least say that we are tanking for XYZ. Can't even say that. Zimmer?

I've always loved Zimmer as defensive coordinator

As someone else mentioned though, is he ready to coach? I know he’s had a recent tragedy

I think Zimmer is done in the NFL. He's an "analyst" at Jackson St right now w/Deion Sanders. He's in his mid-to-late 60s and Minni's defenses fell off the last years while he was there. He is also pretty stubborn and I just don't see him being a fit in the NFL in general and Cleveland in particular.

I would not want him as a HC, but Brian Flores is an intriguing guy as a DC. He's proven himself and it would be a step up from his current position in Pittsburgh.

One thing we seem to forget is unless a coach has an expiring contract with a NF team, teams syill have to give permission for their coaches to move. The trend seems to be they won't.

I think we might look towards a college coach. Maybe we could get Nick saban?(just kidding)

I would look at Jim Leonhard. I would like the new DC to have NFL playing experience. I think Leonhard would be super. I think he would bring player cred to the defensive coaching staff. Him also playing here would be a benefit.

I think this whole coaching thing is overblown by fans and the media. I have come to realize that football message boards are similar to sports talk radio. Controversy, wild speculation, anger, etc. Mostly BS. Trying to have a real football conversation on here is very difficult. Even a game recap thread draws posters who want to talk about board personalities. I'm not talking about you because you are typically one of the most reasonable posters on here. Other than the Ward thing you got going on.

So, I will say this to you..........I've been thinking about this defense a lot. I've already reported that I don't see many scheme issues. Of course, there are some.....but, all schemes have strengths and weaknesses. There is nothing glaring schematically. Here is the real elephant in the room. I am becoming more and more convinced that Berry's draft picks [especially on the defensive side of the ball] have a sense of entitlement. They don't really have to earn their playing time or even their roster spot. I am becoming more certain that Berry controls the roster. All GMs due, but there are degrees to it. I think it is pretty obvious that Berry is more controlling than others.

Of course, I am speculating. However, there are bits and pieces of evidence all over the place. Put them together and that is what you get. If this is true, what is a defensive coaching change really going to accomplish?

You might want to edit those lineups. Also, you forgot Delpit.

I agree on Berry. I don't think the roster is as collaborative as maybe was advertised.

I guess I understand why one would stick with Schwantz for a 2nd season, but unless something changes big time over the next few weeks, I can't see even bringing that guy to camp next year. It's pretty obvious that Stefanski isn't going to play the guy due to lack of trust. I think that might be a bone of contention between the coach and Berry.

The same might be said with the DT's. It seems that Berry's vision is more the fast,nimble type over the warthog, dig in the trenches type. With Woods 2 backer set, it seems to me you first need to anchor the middle, and then if the guy is nimble and fast as well, all the better. We just get pushed off the lane and don't clog anything up the middle. Something needs to be done there. I am thinking maybe 3-4 front would be best with some of the linemen we have. Myles would be good in anything a team runs. A guy like Elliott might be better suited as a 3-4 edge guy. We would just need to find that big guy over the ball, and you can usually find them in the draft where we will be picking or in FA.

I don't know, that's a lot of might be's, but I do know there is a disconnect on this D. Something isn't jiving with that unit.

I know you like Ward, and he is a good player. My problem is he is a "Me" guy. I just don't like the way he left Delpit to sit on the dunce stool. Right or wrong, a good teammate doesn't do that. I hope we trade the guy. We have the corners to do that.

You did not accuse me of this, but I want to clarify that I am not really bad-mouthing Berry and I definitely want him to keep his job. I am just saying it will be hard for any coach to overcome entitled players. What have guys like Delpit, Elliot, Phillips ever done to deserve starting roles and not be benched for poor play?

I mentioned Flores for DC earlier because he is probably the strictest disciplinarian of any guy out there. He takes absolutely no crap. Players won't punk him. However, would Berry tolerate that?

All young guys come into the league entitled. They're young, immature, rich, and have been put on a pedestal their entire lives. That's true of every team. The issue with the Browns is they have no leadership. We can debate where it's lacking...Haslams, FO (Berry), Stefanski, players. But at the end of the day it's a rudderless, leaderless ship.

As for Flores, I read something on the OBR Insider that said the Browns won't touch him...wasn't very specific as to why. Take it for what it is worth.

How many years Is Haslam going to continue to employ Andrew Berry.
Berry was overhyped as this up and coming football roster genius
He has been anything but.
BTW maybe the guy that the Vikings brought in from the Browns front office
Was really smarter than Berry?
Berry has drafted players that are more athletes than pure football
Players. He essentially has built a roster of cupcakes

This is from a larger article that is posted on the Game Recap thread in another forum. This part deals w/the Browns defense.


5
What is salvageable from this defense?


Here is the question that has to be asked: what is salvageable from this defense?


The cornerback room will carry over into 2023. Denzel Ward is guaranteed too much money, Greg Newsome is still a promising player on a rookie deal, Martin Emerson has already outplayed his draft slot, and A.J. Green will be retained for cheap as an exclusive rights free agent. The only name who is not likely to return is Greedy Williams.

The core of the second level should be back as well. Owusu-Koramoah is not going anywhere, and there is hope Takitaki will return as well. Anthony Walker Jr., off of an ACL injury, may be able to be retained for cheap as well. Outside of that, Jacob Phillips, Tony Fields, and Jordan Kunaszyk will all have to fight for a roster spot. Brought in as a plug for a leak, Deion Jones will likely not return.

And this is where it gets dicey.

Grant Delpit might be the only safety in that room to return. Undrafted rookie D’Anthony Bell has earned his worth as a special teams contributor but should not be forced on the field anytime soon on defense. John Johnson III’s price tag vastly outweighs his production as he is likely to exit, and Ronnie Harrison is playing out an expiring deal as well.

Now we get to the defensive line.


The defensive tackle room needs completely overhauled as there is not a serviceable plug in that entire room. Taven Bryan is playing out a one-year deal (and while he would be a serviceable rotational piece) and is unlikely to get a new contract. Jordan Elliott is not going to have to fight for a roster spot in the last year of his deal, Tommy Togiai might be the worst defensive tackle in the league, and Perrion Winfrey cannot even sniff the field as a rookie (not to mention his difficulties staying in good standing with the coaching staff).


The promise the Browns have seen in Isaiah Thomas, however, means they will likely only need to replace one defensive end as Garrett, Alex Wright, and Thomas at least give them three quality pieces. Jadeveon Clowney and Chase Winovich are both on expiring contracts and would be long shots to retain.

Berry has his work cut out for him as the safety and defensive tackle rooms need a complete makeover.


https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lis...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

I was trying to help you out, mac. Your defensive rosters for both seasons are the same. Guys like Jones and Bryan were not even on our roster last year.

Good coaches get the most out of their entitled players. Woods' schemes might be good, but if he can't coach the players to follow them, that's on him. I'm not buying that his hands are tied by the GM to the extent that he can't motivate or teach his players. He hasn't shown competence as a defensive coordinator through 2.5 seasons. Even in the 11 win season we almost blew huge leads against Dallas and Tennessee.

I was talking about the bigger picture. I get that you desperately want Woods fired. I have already said that he is almost certainly going to be fired. I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that changing coaches is not likely to change the attitudes of the players that are not putting in the required effort if the GM continues to enable them.

So it's Berry's job to motivate the players and he's the problem? Not the Head Coach or Stefanski.

Not sure many will agree.
[u][/u]

None of us know for sure. All of those things have been mentioned. I've presented my opinions on the situation but I am not going to try to force-feed them because again, none of us know for sure.

Oh well......