DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns possibly looking to trade Kareem Hunt and Greedy.

I think people often times see it as an all or nothing proposition. I'm pretty much with you in regards to a rebuild. I'm also not a proponent of standing pat. I do believe there are some obvious problems but unlike some others I'm not sure where that responsibility lies. There isn't a S that can cover the pass. They certainly need at least one more legit WR, interior DL help. The LB position seems very weak. The issue is that the Browns have the cap space to have easily addressed those needs and chose not to. The drafting has not really addressed these issues. I'm certainly confident that wasn't due to a lack of effort.

But somewhere there's a disconnect. The difference between myself and many others is I'm not sure where that disconnect is located. Is it the coaching staff that hasn't made it clear to the FO what it is they need? Is it that the coaching staff lacks the ability to clearly see those needs? Is it the analytics that say these aren't position groups that deserve heavy investment in? I have no idea the answer to those questions.

There is a middle ground between rebuild and stand pat. What I think needs to happen is to retool. There is clearly a problem that even us amateurs had a rasp of. Most on this board knew we needed another legit. WR. Not some #1 WR but a proven contributor with good hands and route running. Most understood the weakness on the interior of the DL. While not nearly all, but many knew the LB position needed addressed as well. Yet it took a 2-4 record before the FO made an attempt to address the LB position. I find it quite troublesome that even many of us knew these things while nothing was being done inside the organization to address them.

With watson waiting in the wings I think what most people see as a rebuild would be foolish at this time. Having the best RB in the NFL combined with one of the top tier QB's in the league presents this team with a very rare opportunity. What needs to be repaired is recognizing and addressing the teams needs. Will that take a new DC and or a new ST's coach? I can't say I'm sure about that either way. However IMO Stefanski isn't the issue with the exception that his hand may need to be forced into making some coaching staff changes he may not wish to make.

So I can see that there may be some issues that need to be addressed. However a from the ground up rebuild I don't see needed or a wise decision with where we stand. Often times it seems to me that the most visceral reactions come from those who had unrealistic expectations to begin with. Some were predicting a lot of wins even after knowing the team would be staring a back up QB for almost two thirds of the season.

I understand the disappointment in how the games are being lost. Better teams find a way to win while lesser teams seem to find a way to lose. It is certainly frustrating to watch. But yes, a retooling is needed at some level. But that's far short of a rebuild.

Browns Could Buy and Sell at Deadline if Opportunities are There

The Cleveland Browns could be opportunists at the NFL trading deadline, potentially in the market to add players as well as sell off some pieces to bring back draft assets.
PETE SMITH9 HOURS AGO

The two goals Cleveland Browns general manager Andrew Berry have in preparation for a pivotal offseason include reclaiming draft assets spent in acquiring quarterback Deshaun Watson and finding cost effective pieces that can at least give them options in addressing some of their areas of weakness.

As a result, the Browns have the potential to do some buying as well as selling ahead of the trade deadline. Even though the NFL trade deadline doesn't tend to be super active, teams are becoming more willing to make deals. This year, with some unexpected teams making charges toward the postseason, they could be in the market to replace injured players or bolster their chances to make a run in pursuit of a championship.

The Browns already made one trade, taking a flyer on linebacker Deion Jones in exchange for a pick swap with the Atlanta Falcons. With the loss of Anthony Walker Jr. with a leg injury, the team wanted more veteran help as Jacob Phillips was struggling. Now with Phillips likely out for the year, Jones will be the starter.

Potential Buys
Matt Ioannidis, Defensive Tackle, Carolina Panthers
The Panthers are not having a fire sale, but they are taking calls on non-essential personnel in an effort to build up their draft assets as they prepare to hire a new head coach.

Ioannidis is a solid but unspectacular defensive tackle option that is signed to a one-year deal. His base salary for the rest of the season is under a million dollars, which is a great fit for the Browns, who don't want to take on bloated contracts as they plan to rollover as much money as possible into 2023.


Much as they did in the trade for linebacker Deion Jones, the Browns would be looking to do a pick swap for Ioannidis. That might be swapping a fourth-round pick for a sixth-round pick for example. They don't want to go down on the number of picks they have, already being down so many as a result of the Watson trade, but they are willing to move down in rounds if it gets them something of worth.

Ioannidis gets a look for the rest of the year. If the two sides are happy with the arrangement, the Browns could then sign him to a new deal and keep him in Cleveland when he will be 29 years old.

Daron Payne, Defensive Tackle, Washington Commanders
The Commanders are a mess. From ownership to an embattled head coach in Ron Rivera, the team is headed nowhere fast. Payne is young and has had success, though he's not having a great year. The Browns love big bodies that can rush the passer and Payne can, but could stand to be more consistent against the run.

Payne's base salary is a hair over $8.5 million. The Browns would owe him whatever's left on the deal, which would nearly half. It's not ideal in terms of what the Browns want to do salary-wise this year. It would also mean the Browns then plan to extend Payne to make sense.

Payne is poised to hit the free agent market at 26 years old. He could end up getting a bigger payday than his play might warrant, which is why the Browns might be inclined to make a move to secure his services early.


Once again, the Browns are likely to want to make a pick swap rather than give up a selection. However, that might be more difficult to do here unless the Browns are willing to trade down from one of the few early picks they have.

Shy Tuttle, Defensive Tackle, New Orleans Saints
Tuttle is going to be a free agent after this season and the Saints continue to deal with horrific cap issues. The Saints may not be enthusiastic about trading a starting defensive tackle but the team is riddled with injuries in addition to poor quarterback play. If the team is of the opinion that the team is going to get worse rather than better, they might be interested in adding draft capital as they continue to work through the post-Drew Brees era.

The Browns would owe Tuttle the remainder of a $2.43 million base salary. He's going to be 28 years old next year and could be another option to potentially bolster their interior.

Sellable Assets
Kareem Hunt, Running Back
From the moment the season was set to begin Hunt always made sense as a player the Browns could move. Holding onto him until the trade deadline might have been the prudent move as there are teams still looking for running back.


Additionally, some teams have suffered some catastrophic injuries while in position to make a run for the postseason. The San Francisco 49ers acquired Christian McCaffrey from the Carolina Panthers and the New York Jets added James Robinson from the Jacksonville Jaguars. The Los Angeles Rams are a team that has been openly looking for help in the backfield, but there may be others in search of a valuable complimentary back like the Buffalo Bills.


Hunt is an average runner, but a good blocker and pass catcher. He's someone that a team can consistently have on the field and benefit. He's better suited to play in a heavy gap scheme to compensate for a lack of vision.

The Browns aren't likely to get some huge haul for Hunt, but they could get themselves a day three pick for his services. It could be a fifth round pick or perhaps a conditional pick. If the Browns are getting offered anything more than that, it's a bonus.

The other thing that makes Hunt interesting is that one of the reasons he's attractive is his low contract figure. The team acquiring him would only owe him what's left of his $1.35 million base salary. He is scheduled to be a free agent.


At 28 years old and a history of injuries, it's hard to believe that Hunt will be fielding massive contract offers. They might be able to offer him a larger role, but Hunt really is best suited to be a utility back as opposed to a featured one. Maybe the Browns love what they see from Jerome Ford and D'Ernest Johnson. They may even look to draft another back. Don't be so sure Hunt couldn't effectively be rented out the rest of this year and return in 2023.

Greedy Williams, Corner
Williams missed the start of the season with a hamstring injury and the Browns have have move on. Rookie corner Martin Emerson is a contrast in styles that allows the Browns to present different looks. He's been pretty solid as a rookie and is improving as he gains experience.

Williams played against the Baltimore Ravens in limited role, but when Denzel Ward returns from injury, Williams may not see the field at all. Injuries have been the biggest issue for Williams, but he's played good football including much of last season.

Williams still offers excellent speed and good length for the position. He's well suited for a heavy man scheme that can let their corner play up and just run with receivers. Williams tends to be too conservative in off man coverage, taking false steps and plays like he's afraid to get beat deep.


Williams is in the final year of his contract and there's virtually no chance he will be re-signed. This is a situation where the Browns are weighing what teams might offer for Williams now versus what they project he will get in free agency that determines his compensatory value. The fear is that the team he signs with will want him to sign a one-year prove it deal, which could limit what the Browns would get back in 2024.

Jack Conklin, Offensive Tackle
Conklin is playing well and looks healthy coming off of a serious knee injury. The Browns planned ahead for life after Conklin by drafting James Hudson in 2021. He struggled as a rookie after being pressed into action due to Conkling going out for the season. When Hudson has played in 2022 before Conklin was ready to go, he played reasonably well.

With the Browns looking to cut costs, this becomes a natural pivot point for the Browns. So long as Hudson continues to grow and improve, the Browns will maintain the quality of the line at a lower cost. The Browns just did this with J.C. Tretter and Nick Harris at center. Harris then got injured, so now they have Ethan Pocic holding down the pivot.


There are a number of teams using rookie tackles either due to injury or ineffectiveness to veteran options. That might make a team perhaps pay a little more for someone like Conklin, then likely to sign him to an extension. If the offer is high enough, potentially a third round pick or more, they could be willing to move him.

The rub is that if the Browns do indeed let Conklin walk in free agency, he's likely to sign a lucrative deal which will then give the Browns a compensatory pick. Given the rarity of premium tackle options, it would be a surprise if the Browns don't get a third or fourth round pick selection in 2024, especially if teams feel confident Conklin will improve the further away he gets from the injury. The Browns might be happy to get a pick in 2024 and could price that into a negotiation now.

D'Ernest Johnson, Running Back
Johnson wants to play, understandably. The Browns don't have a lot of touches to give him, so he's mostly on special teams if he's active at all.

Johnson isn't a great receiver or blocker, but he is at least functional in those roles. That's why Kareem Hunt plays over him. However, Johnson has been a productive runner, averaging 5.3 yards per carry on 137 career carries.


His vision is a great fit for a zone scheme. He's got a good burst, churns his legs through contact and fights for every yard. His contract is cheap and he's a player that shouldn't cost much to retain if the team that gets him is happy with the impact, becoming a valuable role player in a rotation.

Johnson could fetch a late day three pick, likely in the sixth or seventh round.

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/browns-could-be-buyers-and-sellers

Now we're looking for DT's. Why didn't we start in the summer. We knew then it was a position of weakness.

Other GMs knows that Berry is desperate and that will reflect Kareem and Greedy’s trade value. Apart from bad timing this once again gives vibes about another panic move from the Browns FO.

Why am I not surprised….

Okay, I will not be a fan of this trade if it happens. I get trading Hunt given his status, but more importantly, the fact that we have great depth at his position. Not a fan of getting rid of top-level offensive tackles.

Now they're looking for DT's. Why didn't they start in the summer ? They knew then it was a position of weakness.

Did they know ? or was it they believed what Woods felt was the best type of DT for his scheme ?

They see and know things in a different way then

We us or I as a fan. Sometimes I believe we us or I, well not me really lol

Are smarter than them !

No, our DTs don't fit Woods 4-2-5 defense. It's the one spot in that particular defense that requires big, space-eating, block-occupying, guys.

Also, us fans are definitely not "smarter" than they are.

This is just my opinion. I know the record is not good. However, I think this team is much better than what some people are saying. There was only one game we got beat up on the scoreboard, but even that game could have went the other way had Green not been out of bounds on the Onside kick. Losing close games one year is similar to teams who get a bunch of turnovers in a year. The trend often turns in the next year.

We will have an elite QB next year. I think it would be a huge mistake to start creating holes. The salary cap thing is so overrated. Not saying it isn't a factor, but we are in good shape and teams rarely are destroyed by the salary cap anymore. It used to be a much bigger factor than it is now.

I understand trading Hunt because we have Chubb, DEJ, and the rook. While Hudson played well enough at the start of the year, people on here hated him last year. Conklin is an elite tackle. I would not trade him. I realize my opinion doesn't matter to the Browns. I'm just voicing my opinion. There is no way that I agree w/all the doom and gloom posters on this board. This team is close and I think we have a real shot next year if we don't start getting rid of real talent.

I believe the thought process with trading Conklin is that he is gone next year regardless. Get some value now and let Hudson get the reps in a season that is all but over. It is highly unlikely the Browns re-sign Conklin to a new deal. They have a lot of money tied up in Bitonio and Teller. Additionally, the Browns are going to have to decide on whether or not to pick up Wills 5th year option. In all likelihood they will and that's an additional $13M in salary next year tied up in the OL. Conklin will be able to make more on the open market than what the Browns will be willing to offer.

I'd say its a pretty safe bet that Hudson is the starting RT next year.

That doesn’t make any sense. The FO DOES NOT have to trade either of them if they don’t want and still get possible compensation.

Maybe I’m ignorant but if they don’t trade any player then who’s going to compensate us?

No, our DTs don't fit Woods 4-2-5 defense. It's the one spot in that particular defense that requires big, space-eating, block-occupying, guys.

Also, us fans are definitely not "smarter" than they are.

I was kind of speaking in the terms of most fans from the beginning of the draft and there on questioned why bigger DT's were not drafted or picked up in FA

I said in another post that most OT's are bigger than the DT's on the Browns team.

I feel that the people involved fell into Woods bs on who he wanted as DT's on his Defense

Clearly most of us wanted bigger tougher DT's from the get go

The FO gave Woods the DT's he wanted

Most fans weren't happy with the undersized guys

So whose smarter , Us or them ? lol in a way ya know !

Still not sure if it's the DT's or the scheme or what it is

6-4 290 291 and 303 and 6-2 296

That's the DT's

Now you wish to blame Woods for the picks. So it would look like on the surface you need to make up your mind which way this all works. Are you suggesting that Barry, DePodesta and the analytics department simply sit back and draft/sign a wish list of players that the coaching staff hands them?

That's pretty much what I said. He may very well tell the FO what type of players he wants. But IMO that's about the extent of it. He isn't telling them to only address it with mid round talent. He isn't telling them not to go after help in the FA market. I don't see how that makes the players on the roster "his guys".

So maybe the schemes ok it's just that we don't have all the right personnel.

I can't remember if it was Berry or KS but at one time one of them mentioned that they prefer smaller penetrating DTs over the bigger run stopping type and that's a huge problem for us because they also prefer smaller fast LBs. If you don't have at least one pretty good penetrating DT than you have no one that the opposing Oline needs to double team which allows that extra Olineman to get to the next level and take out our smaller LBs. Bryan is the best we have as a penetrating DT and he's at best a backup on a good team, I thought Elliott was going to be a good player but his play has just been so uninspiring, and Togiai is a really undersized run stopping type DT. With smaller fast LBs you either need 2 good penetrating DTs, or an Aaron Donald, or at least one run stopping DT type who can tie up 2 blockers.