DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How many players away are the Browns away from being a contender?

Watching the Bills play at the moment vs the Packers.
Looks like the Bills have really hit the bullseye on

Drafting....Gabriel Davis...Gregory Rosseau...Dawson Knox
Josh Allen..Ed Oliver

Trades Stefan Diggs

Free Agency ..Von Miller...Jordan Poyer.

How many players are the Browns away from being
Mentioned as contenders like the Bills?
The Browns disadvantage is that they have no #1s for
3 years. The Bills core players are all 1st RD picks
The thing is, next year DeShaun Watson will have
To play at level equal to Josh Allen....Watson can't
Be good, he has to be great.

The Bills are even getting big time plays from.their
Mid RD picks.

I think the Browns need to attempt to lure some scouts or
Front office assistants from a team like the Bills
To help accelerate this...cause DePodesta and his approach
Is failing

Over the hills and far away... away.

The Bills are a complete team and are getting outstanding play from D-Line and LBs.

Browns would have to be major players in the FA market to get a defense at this level without any 1st round picks for two more years. Free agency does not guarantee success either. All the talk during the offseason was about the juggernaut that was to be the AFC West. Only the Chiefs are serious SB contenders as the season has played out.

This has been seasons in the making for the Bills, the Chiefs as well for that matter.

I think the Bills are missing half their starting secondary too

All this off season talk about how the Browns how this
Beastly running game and how it will get
The Browns to the playoffs ....whatever ..
In a league dominated by passing, Berry decides
To build a offense with a running game and a conservative passing
Game. How has that worked out?

First, let's not kid ourselves here, getting a top 5 QB in Watson as the savior to the franchise and putting him into a run first scheme is a waste of money. If Watson is going to be the focus (aka Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, Rodgers), the current scheme would have to change. There's no way that's happening with Stefanski at the helm. I suspect Watson will ask for a replacement early on in 2023 unless the Haslam's address it this coming off season.

Second, offensively the Browns will have to address the WR position. To be blunt, there's not a single WR on the Browns roster that could displace any starter on Cincinnati, Buffalo, LAChargers or Tampa Bay. That tells me the Browns are weak at the position and if 2022 has showed anything (aka Green Bay), weakness at the position will make a top 5 QB average very quickly. There's 230M reasons why this has to change in Cleveland. The other issue is OT, with Conklin more than likely gone to FA and Wills grossly under performing at LT (32.4 PFF Grade last game), the Browns top ranked o-line is suddenly looking weak without some serious investment. Is Berry up to the task?

Third, defensively the Browns need a major overhaul in the front 7. First, Clowney, again a FA and the Browns are on the books for the next 4-years of 1.6M per in dead cap for him. I don't think the Browns can wait until May or June to see if Clowney can find a better deal. Get him signed or move on. DT is such a mess that it's going to take a whole lot of work to fix a position where the Browns have been dead last at for 2-years running. Weak LB's compound the problem but until the Browns address the front, the LB's really won't matter. FS is an issue but more importantly is Ward being paid as a top 5 CB performing at a bottom 5 level. Someone on the Browns needs to find out what the heck is going on with Ward.

If the Browns lose today, they will be 4-games out with the tie breaker less than halfway through the season. The team has gotten progressively worse under Stefanski's rule and not looking good for the rest of the season. The Browns may be getting Watson back from suspension but to be considered on the same level as Buffalo is a massive stretch. There's a ton of work to be done to get this team to a championship level and I'm not confident that Berry can do it. I'm positive that Stefanski is incapable of leading such a team.

2 LB.
1 CB.
2 interior DL.
2 WR.
1 DC.
1 STC.
1 HC.

on top of that a ton of luck, a player friendly environment built on trust and accountability plus 1 (beautiful) female masseuse next to DSW so we get a happy ending

Need more than one to keep DSW happy!

Just some thoughts.

We are short 1st rounders the next 2 years. Not 3.

On O...we need a receiver to complement Cooper. In theory we should be able to draft one, but it seems that drafting WR's isn't a strength of this FO, so we may need to go the FA route. That is about it on the O. Froholdt and Pocic look good on the O-line. Maybe sliding Teller to RT would be a good move if Hudson doesn't fit the bill at RT.

D...we need maybe 4 players.

First, we need at least 1 really solid DT. One of those big, 2 blocker eating guys.

We seem to be good at selecting DB's, so keep doing that.

We need a top safety and a better backer.

Perhaps you forgot, but Berry realized he had a trash qb and had the fortitude to put his neck on the line and sign one of the very best qbs in the game. Watson will thrive in Stefanski's offense next year. It's a qb friendly offense and we will be unbelievable when we run our Empty sets, much like Buffalo is w/Allen and KC is w/Mahomes. Our running game will actually improve significantly because teams will be forced to defend the entire field and Watson's threat to run when we roll him out.

That said, we need two good DTs and a couple of dynamic LBers. One safety who can provide support to our corners in pass coverage would also help a lot.

Like Jarvis Landry? Still scratching my head over that move.

My wishlist:

DT is a must. I don’t care what analytics say … it kills us
DE is a must. Clowney is unreliable and we have nothing beyond Garrett
S is a must. Our FS play is malpractice

If Watson is as advertised we don’t need much on offense IMO. Maybe a #2 WR and to figure out the OT spot if Conklin goes.

Good point about a DE and Clowney. I agree w/you.

Still derailing posts, I see with your hatred for Baker. How's the former QB being gone address how many players the Browns are away from being a contender with their stellar 2-5 record this year?

2 WRs that can attack any level of the defense

DT that can eat up double teams and get to the QB

2 LBers that can play physical and go sideline to sideline

2 Safties that have high football I.Q and can tackle

LT that can run block and pass block with equal high grades

DE that can play the run.

I would say 2 DT's, a FS, a LB and another WR for sure. Clearly, we weren't as "stacked" as most thought.

and a partridge in a pear tree...

That's an interesting point. Especially when you consider he swears up and down that Brissett who has throw 2 td's and 4 int's over the past four games isn't the problem. The Browns are 2-5, as of today that is, and Baker didn't play a down over that time frame. It seems like he wants it both ways depending on which way the wind is blowing. The entire thread is predicated on where the team is now and what it would take to make this team a contender from this point forward. So what does he do? He brings up prior seasons and then in the next breath will be blaming others for high jacking threads. It would be hard to even make up this BS.

And do you want to see how stupid his point actually was? Chubb was drafted in the 2018 draft. Stefnaski wasn't hired until 2020. Stefanski had nothing to do with this team being built around the running game. That's what he inherited when he got here.

As for an actual answer to the thread topic.

I think most understand the Browns need help on the interior of the DL along with a complimentary WR. Outside of that I think it's anyone's guess. They could certainly be better at the LB'er position. But I think one has to ask themselves.... This D played well after a rough start last year. Ward was playing better too. So what happened? How can mostly the same players do well last year and lay an egg this year?

I can't answer that but when considering that I have to ask myself if the problem really lies with the players and talent level. As we've seen in Carolina, when they moved to a backup QB and a new HC they look like a different team. And that's certainly not because of the talent level. Things that make you go hmmmm.....

Derailing threads to pour hate in Baker is always permitted .... As is starting meaningless threads "comparing" Baker on a bad team with a terrible now fire HC, to JB on this year's Browns. And heaven forbid someone post a meaningful football intelligent comparison of the two QBs on similar teams allbeit one was injured and one was healthy.... THAT would not be permitted and would be subject to scorn. I'll add that if Baker was on this team, talk of what players are needed to compete for a SB would be labelled an excuse, as would any talk about the bad defense.

One point that is also true: there is no such thing as a complete roster in the NFL. Coaching, development, effort, scheme, etc … that all matters. I’m sure there are guys on the Bills who wouldn’t do as well here (or anywhere that is “bad”).

We can’t possible plug all of the holes and think we’ll magically be good.

I normal disagree with you....BUT....proof is in pudding. Pluto spelled it out- one winning season in ten years of Haslams. We thought Coach of Year and ONE winning season meant we were headed to promised land....WRONG. I don't know if S has the toughness to will the team to better performance- he seems to be a rah, rah, kid of guy. How to motivate millionaires to play better? This is a pay me for what I did or will do....then, what performance do you get. Sure hope Watson with his GUARANTEED contract decides to perform. Coaching changes HAVE to be made- players play, but coaches are paid to get best performance out of their pieces and that has not occurred.

I do think the attitude and culture plays a huge role in how players perform. I'm not in the locker room or in practice every day to know what's going on behind the scenes. As with all of us I simply have to make a guess based upon my observations. Those guesses could just as well be wrong as they could be right. And not every team has the results we are seeing in Carolina. But most on this board felt the problems in Carolina were as much or more centered around the HC Matt Rhule as they were around Baker. I felt that both were a part of the problem as well. I'm not saying that Carolina will now become a successful team. What I can say is that their team is playing at a higher level. That they are competing at a much higher caliber. The attitude and culture seems much improved.

Is it the same case with the Browns? Is a change at the top needed? As I said, I'm not in the locker room or at practice every day. But what I'm certainly quite confident in saying is that the same overall defense that took the field last year didn't suddenly forget how to play. Their skill set didn't suddenly regress. Something deeper is certainly going on here.

I’d say, almost without question, that we have (and have always had) a problem with attitude in the locker room. Losing breeds losing and vice versa. We are losers.

That’s a tough ship to turn once it’s headed in that direction.

Which is the point many of us have been trying to make. The attitudes in that locker room didn't just start causing issues in October 2022. They were there all of last year and one would suspect that they were there in 2020 to a lesser degree. Except for a handful of players, the nucleus of the team that is here in 2022 was here in 2021 and 2020. Fans and media alike have tried to push this off on certain individuals over the years but the constant that has always remained is the HC Stefanski. Some off the names have changed yet 2022 is demonstrating the worse internal strife the team has experienced in years. To quote Pit, " But I think one has to ask themselves.... This D played well after a rough start last year. Ward was playing better too. So, what happened? How can mostly the same players do well last year and lay an egg this year?" I will answer that by saying that they ignored the strife that wasn't directed toward them personally in 2021 yet was a constant cloud in that locker room. In 2022, it's on their doorstep and the poor attitudes continue to grow but don't kid yourself, this has been going on since day 1 of Stefanski's rule. It's just more prevalent now but no different than last year or 2020 - a non-leadership HC in charge.

I agree!

In 2013 Sir Alex Ferguson left Manchester United (Premier League) due to age and with him 26 years of experience and leadership. In less then one summer the winning culture was gone. Players started to question their new manager, loyalty and trust flew out of the window and accountability wasn’t longer a priority. In less then 9 years 4 managers and 3 interim coaches was sacked or stripped from responsibilities.

In 2022 Man United appointment Erik ten Hag from Ajax Amsterdam. A no nonsense manager with a very strong and decisive leadership. His English was poor and he talked like a Hillbilly but make no mistakes. He knew who has to be the Alpha inside the locker room.

His first move was to install 100% accountability. After two games he benched our captain Harry Maguire and the best goal scorer ever in Cristiano Ronaldo. Bang! They where not even consulted. Trust me. A chock wave flew thru the club and at that moment it was either the manager or the players. Media was all over it and just so you know Man United is probably one of the most famous clubs in the world.

He installed meritocracy and reassured everyone that results was the only thing that matter to him. If the players didn’t show full commitment and followed instructions they where out in the cold.

It took him less than 2 month to change the entire culture inside the locker room. When the team started to win a few games in a row all players, coaches and the rest of the staff was fully committed and from now on there was only one leader in our club.

Players power was finally gone.

Come on. Are you really going to let those guys influence you? They are wrong about almost everything when it comes to football.

Think for a moment. No team is w/out holes. No team has studs at every position. This team is not that far away and next year when we are kicking ass, these guys will find something else to be wrong about while denying they were wrong about the coaching staff and culture. Read their crap now about Baker. They still refuse to admit they were wrong and that the dude sucks.

You're better than that crew. By a mile.

1. I'm pretty sure you were agreeing with him or he was agreeing with you or vice versa. Basically you guys said the same thing.

2. I'm right about Stefanski. Unfortunately.

I wasn't talking about you. I don't believe you are posting dumb, hateful stuff because you are care more about Baker than the Browns. I also don't think you are a liar.

I just think you have a negative streak, much like lead, and that you are obsessed about Stefanski. I think you are dead wrong about Stefanski and I find your constant negativity depressing, but I don't think you are coming from an ugly place like those other guys. So, I have just accepted that that is your position on Stefanski. I think you are wrong. You think I am wrong. No insults or lies either way. That's fine w/me. Different opinions are a good thing.

I can get on board with that. Especially because I don't want to be right.

I just want to win man. I just want to win.

I hope I am right, too.....but, that doesn't mean I am. In the end, being right and wrong isn't all that important.........unless, of course, people who have been proven wrong time after time after time keep creating new fights when they have no idea about what they are talking about. LOL......No, I am not including you in that group.

2-5! Eat that wise guy.

Go back one year and see if the negativity is something new or maybe our concerns was born out of a long series of questionable decisions and a lack of leadership.

I'm not sure because any Pro bowl or All Pro level player we've ever got in free agency suddenly becomes a 3rd string level player when they get here. They commit dumb penalties, can't tackle, drop passes, the list goes on. See JJ3 as the latest example

He won't do that - just check his post, he is the only one here who knows anything about football. His and only his opinion carry's any weight on this forum. Funny though that the same questions that were dismissed by this guy in 2021 about Stefanski now has grown into worse player attitudes and he's still blasting anyone who questions Stefanski's coaching and nonexistent leadership. Not to mention Stefanski is moving in on a career losing record for the Browns but can do no wrong in Vers' eyes. You have to ask yourself, who is the person who actually doesn't know football?

Translation; I am the football god of Dawgtalkers. How dare you question the great and powerful Vers!


Anyone who disagrees with me is because they love Baker Mayfield and the Browns being 2-5 as of this post has nothing to do with anything!

I think last night's game shows this team isn't that far away. A couple of DTs are needed. Maybe a stud FS, but those are hard to find. I do think JJ played w/quite a bit of fire last night. We could use another WR, but I think DPJ is quietly having himself a very good year.

Zegura mentioned today that JJ III wore the green dot for the first time all season last night and that players were commenting how much better the communication was throughout the game and how JJ III was very clear in explaining all the details.

Glad it took us til week 8 to figure that out.

Said something similar in another post. This performance is what we should have seen all season. And unless they play to a similar level each game, nothing is fixed. Hope this is the new standard for every game.

I noticed him talking to one of the guys before they broke the huddle. He gave the guy a couple of different looks like he was making sure the guy understood what he was saying. The green dot thing helps explain the "why" of that exchange.

I think some growth and development is what this team needs to be a contender.

Week #1 - Carolina Win easily could have been a Loss. Problem not players but missed assignments.

Week #2 - New York - Loss but should have been a Win. Another missed assignment and special teams' breakdown. Not players

Week #3 - Pittsburg - Win. Team played good ball most of the night. Good 2nd half adjustments shutdown the Steelers

Week #4 - Atlanta - Loss. Injuries. Let's face it this defense is built around 2 pass rushing Defensive Ends. Neither played. The young players did not step up. This was also the 1st full game without our starting Middle Linebacker.

Week #5 - LA - Loss but again should have won. Missed field goal. It happens but was magnified because of Jets loss.

Week #6 - NE - Loss. Only game this year the offense did not produce. Blame Belichick, he understands how to stop back up QB's.

Week #7 - Baltimore - Loss but easily could have been a win. Cooper got called for offensive pass interference (it was) but many times that goes uncalled. Then another special teams breakdown and field goal blocked.

Week #8 - Win. Best game played by team all year.

Let's really look at this team with a back up QB. They are 3-5 but very easily could be 5-3. If this team is 5-3 right now just a 2 game swing (when 5 games were determined by less than 3 points) they would be going into the bye week tied for 1st with a chance to get healthy and 4 games away from getting Watson under center. This team would be considered a playoff team and contender right now. 1 recovered on side kick and 1 more made field goal (LA or Baltimore). The perception would be different. This team is readu to win now but possibly may have to wait until next year.

Serious question, can I assume then, that the guy(s) who wore it in the previous 7 games were LBs? Before Walker was injured, I thought I recall players commenting on his communication was good on defense.