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mgh888 #1984984 11/09/22 01:52 PM
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Well they weren't blowing sunshine up his ass so naturally it's only about agendas. That's his go to when people question what's going wrong with a team who is currently 3-5. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with that losing record.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Sorry I called the draft one of the worst.
Owe well I called this season to the penny 12 wins to 3 wins.

Question who is vers?

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Originally Posted by jacksondawg
Question who is vers?

Make a post about how crappy Stefanski's playcalling is and what a mistake it was to get rid of Baker. You'll find out in no time. grin


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
j/c:

I knew this thread was going to turn into yet another agenda thread the minute I saw it w/the usual personality crap thrown in. I'm out.

Maybe you should just get over yourself already, then the rest of us could enjoy the board again. And you taking shots at all these newer guys or guys that don't post much is pure BS and unacceptable. Do you see a low post count and just think you can bully them or what, Vers? I want to help you man, so, if you need to take a cheap shot or whine, just aim that crap at me. You can call me out by name, and point your ire here. This way you get it out of your system and since IDGAF what you think, we'll be good.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
mgh888 #1985204 11/10/22 07:27 PM
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No worries

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Who are you to determine what is “unacceptable”?

I’m not really sticking up for Vers here, I’m just saying what I said.


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Who are you to question who determines what's unacceptable?


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Originally Posted by lampdogg
Who are you to determine what is “unacceptable”?

I’m not really sticking up for Vers here, I’m just saying what I said.

OCD! That's who. Smh, I will always take up for the oppressed, silenced, and bullied. So I guess common decency allows me to determine what is unacceptable. You should read up on it. Not defending what I said, Just saying what I did.


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What should I read up on? I don’t need to read up on common decency, in my 55 years I’ve gotten most of it.


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mgh888 #1985890 11/13/22 04:50 PM
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Not saying any of this is good or bad for the Browns, but as far as what's going to happen happen in the off season (imo):

The head coach and entire offensive coaching staff will remain intact - maybe a slightly altered role for AVP or Berry insisting on an "offensive" consultant " whatever that means. I'm just not sure how management will justify any major offensive shake-up without a full year of Watson.

Defensive coaching staff will be all new, led by a young up and comer (names will be discussed back and forth on the board very soon). ST coach gone.

New defensive scheme in which to acclimate for half a season (but that doesn't really matter, because how much worse could it be?). Probably a new S and C coach.

Who knows.

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At a minimum you cannot continue with Woods. I'm not sure any coach in the history of the NFL has as many lives as him, including Hue.

But it should be someone experienced.

Rishuz #1985948 11/13/22 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rishuz
At a minimum you cannot continue with Woods. I'm not sure any coach in the history of the NFL has as many lives as him, including Hue.

But it should be someone experienced.

I agree, but until the season ends there isn't much you can do about it. Firing Woods and appointing a interim from the current staff isn't going to do anything. At this point I doubt it would rally the troops. The reality is some of the troops need to be replaced.


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mgh888 #1985968 11/13/22 07:06 PM
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IDK, how people can still be praising Stefanski when it's his team and his defense that sucks and that's being nice. He's supposed to have the best o-line in the NFL with the best RB in Chubb and he calls his number only 11 freaking times in the game. This isn't something that started just today, he's been doing this crap for 3-years now. You take away Chubbs 30-yard run, and the guy averaged only 3.0 YPC the other 10 attempts. Meanwhile, his defense is allowing almost 200 yards rushing against them again. When is someone going to hold the HC responsible for his teams continued poor showing?


Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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I really feel Chubb is the kind of back that needs carries. Certainly more than 11. He gets going, he gets hungry and angry.............and better and better.

But, I'm not a football coach. Maybe Stefanski is 'resting' Chubb for some time later, like when we're behind by 20?

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Originally Posted by steve0255
IDK, how people can still be praising Stefanski when it's his team and his defense that sucks and that's being nice. He's supposed to have the best o-line in the NFL with the best RB in Chubb and he calls his number only 11 freaking times in the game. This isn't something that started just today, he's been doing this crap for 3-years now. You take away Chubbs 30-yard run, and the guy averaged only 3.0 YPC the other 10 attempts. Meanwhile, his defense is allowing almost 200 yards rushing against them again. When is someone going to hold the HC responsible for his teams continued poor showing?


Maybe the 3 ypc is the reason we didn't call his number more. It's pretty obvious that teams are keyed on stopping the run and are willing to allow it to fall in to Brissett's hands.

Dadgum....if you were coaching againt the Browns, what the hell would you do?


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mgh888 #1985982 11/13/22 07:53 PM
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Expect to win!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
Expect to win!!!!!

The Browns don't. And their coach is a dud who doesn't instill that belief in the team.

Rishuz #1985987 11/13/22 08:06 PM
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I answered Balls hypothetical question. If you were coaching against the Browns what would you do? My answer: expect to win. I think KS should get another season with a top end QB which DW was and hopefully still is. Firing KS now, I believe, would be unfair. However, I would strongly consider making changes with the D coaches. We need a different direction with our D.

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mgh888 #1985997 11/13/22 08:28 PM
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mgh888 #1985998 11/13/22 08:31 PM
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We need to make the DL interior a top priority.


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mgh888 #1986013 11/13/22 09:14 PM
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Stefanski has to catch heat because he's the HC. the fact that our defense was this terrible after a bye is just as much on him as it is woods.

but the O is fine. we ALL knew teams were gonna sell out to stop the run and make JB throw it for the 11 games he's starting. JB isn't good enough to compete in a potential shootout. this is the same thing with JB in the colts, he's a great backup who can hold down the fort in a pinch, but not the entire season. so until Watson returns, teams are gonna do everything possible to force JB to throw the ball.

anybody who thinks our run game is gonna carry us every week should know better. the only way our run game stays effective is if they respect our QB's ability to pass and create. and our defense is trash. Stefanski needs to show growth, and part of that is admitting when you hired the wrong guy and letting him go. Woods just isn't it. whatever scheme he created, or whatever the message he thinks he's sending just isn't being received by the players. these are the kind of decisions that separate OC/DCs and HCs.


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Swish #1986019 11/13/22 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Swish
Stefanski has to catch heat because he's the HC. the fact that our defense was this terrible after a bye is just as much on him as it is woods.

Agree with this. And many saw flaws in Woods defense the last two years - despite statistics that wanted to tell some posters he was a good D coordinator.

Berry is also HUGELY at fault. Put aside Watson who has yet to prove one way or another whether that was a good move for the team. What, where and how did Berry make this team better this offseason with free agency and a draft ? Emmerson might be a player, we might have solved our kicking issues (but let's wait a season or two before we anoint). I think Brissett has played better than we all anticipated. He's played well enough to win. These sudden holes in the roster ... what was Berry's plan? How's he going to fix it next year with only a similar draft haul? With Hunt gone, with Clowney gone. Other cap casualties?

IF Watson doesn't return to his peak - and two years away from the game has to carry risk no matter who you are and how good you were - IF he isn't that Watson... the franchise will be set back a minimum of 5 years.


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mgh888 #1986021 11/13/22 09:57 PM
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I have lost all faith that this team will be successful with Stefanski at the helm. He can't make the hard decisions. I'm not talking about going for it on 4th and four. I'm talking about not pulling a crippled Baker or not firing an incompetent DC. He clearly can't get this team motivated to perform to anywhere near their potential. To play like they did today after a bye is a coaching failure. There's an obvious lack of leadership.


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Originally Posted by jfanent
I have lost all faith that this team will be successful with Stefanski at the helm. He can't make the hard decisions. I'm not talking about going for it on 4th and four. I'm talking about not pulling a crippled Baker or not firing an incompetent DC. He clearly can't get this team motivated to perform to anywhere near their potential. To play like they did today after a bye is a coaching failure. There's an obvious lack of leadership.

This so obvious to anyone paying attention.

mgh888 #1986024 11/13/22 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mgh888
the franchise will be set back a minimum of 5 years.

I'm trying to understand this line of thought. A franchise that has a history of making terrible hires and underperforming in the draft took a gamble on a franchise QB. Had they not taken that gamble you would have to assume, based on track record, that the incompetent hires and poor draft selections would continue. How is the franchise being set back? Makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by mgh888
the franchise will be set back a minimum of 5 years.

I'm trying to understand this line of thought. A franchise that has a history of making terrible hires and underperforming in the draft took a gamble on a franchise QB. Had they not taken that gamble you would have to assume, based on track record, that the incompetent hires and poor draft selections would continue. How is the franchise being set back? Makes no sense.

READ. He said if Watson isn't who he was before his self-imposed two year hiatus, the franchise is set back five years.


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No, I got that. Again, how does that change anything? If you take the gamble on Watson and he's bad you've lost the draft picks. If you didn't take the gamble on Watson and retain your draft picks, you have Berry making the picks and Stefanski coaching the picks. How is that better?

If Watson doesn't pan out it's a wash. It's a risk you take every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The "set back for five years" argument was first introduced to support Baker and bash the Watson move. I'm surprised it's still being used in light of Baker's play.

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Originally Posted by jfanent
I have lost all faith that this team will be successful with Stefanski at the helm. He can't make the hard decisions. I'm not talking about going for it on 4th and four. I'm talking about not pulling a crippled Baker or not firing an incompetent DC. He clearly can't get this team motivated to perform to anywhere near their potential. To play like they did today after a bye is a coaching failure. There's an obvious lack of leadership.

I'm close, but there is still hope. As I said in a previous thread, Stefanski is "good cop", and definitely needs "bad cop" as a DC. Woods is toast after this season anyway. Going to have to hire someone with more than a weak pulse.

We can't have two coaches that put their tales between their legs when "smart, tough, accountable" has to be enforced. Offense will click with Watson. We'll need a DC that will bust balls when we get half-hearted effort and/or crappy results. Two coaches that both pat players on the heads, make excuses, and tell the media "we battled"? Not gonna fly much longer.


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That could also be a bad outcome. Can't have the head coach acting like a coordinator and the coordinator acting like the head coach. Team won't respect the head coach.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
No, I got that. Again, how does that change anything? If you take the gamble on Watson and he's bad you've lost the draft picks. If you didn't take the gamble on Watson and retain your draft picks, you have Berry making the picks and Stefanski coaching the picks. How is that better?

If Watson doesn't pan out it's a wash. It's a risk you take every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The "set back for five years" argument was first introduced to support Baker and bash the Watson move. I'm surprised it's still being used in light of Baker's play.

How in the world is it "a wash" if you have no QB or draft picks??

Do you understand that if you draft a bad QB it's not as bad as trading 5 picks, waiting a year and paying 250M for a bad QB?? One of these things would "set you back" further than the other. This isn't real hard.

Sometimes I think you would argue the color of grass.


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If we gambled on Watson and he's bad (which I don't think he will be) then everyone needs to be fired... we gave up the farm for Watson... our offense will be fine, but we could have used some of those picks on defense...

I'm hoping Watson comes in and lights a fire to the team... but if he comes in and sucks... and we gave up that much draft capital to get him...everyone is getting fired...


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...and we're set back five years.


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FATE #1986053 11/13/22 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FATE
...and we're set back five years.

yep... we need to be very good/lucky with the picks we have... need to be able to develop talent, which I worry about doing... and Watson needs to be good


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Originally Posted by FATE
...and we're set back five years.
nonsense.. we are already set back 3 year by hiring this staff. Its been proven the right staff turns it around immediately. See NYJ, NYG, Miami. Also shows that you can ruin something that was working with the wrong staff..see Las Vegas, Tampa


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You're arguing with him now because you have a different opinion.

You do know grass is green right?

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Originally Posted by leadtheway
Originally Posted by FATE
...and we're set back five years.
nonsense.. we are already set back 3 year by hiring this staff. Its been proven the right staff turns it around immediately. See NYJ, NYG, Miami. Also shows that you can ruin something that was working with the wrong staff..see Las Vegas, Tampa

You're right. When Watson sucks (this scenario), I'm sure the next thing this franchise will do is hire a front office that will immediately turn things around.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
You're arguing with him now because you have a different opinion.

You do know grass is green right.

And you're right too.

If Watson sucks it won't be a setback. thumbsup


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I agree.

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Originally Posted by jaybird
Originally Posted by FATE
...and we're set back five years.

yep... we need to be very good/lucky with the picks we have... need to be able to develop talent, which I worry about doing... and Watson needs to be good

Yessir. All those things need to happen and we need to hope there is no damage to our wavering mission to be a "destination" organization. We've already jeopardized next year's free agency haul because the more we say we're not, the more "the Browns is the Browns is the Browns".


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